The Real timschochet

1. Trump tells outright lie. 2. Trump tells outright lie. 3. Trump tells outright lie. 4. Zelensky attempts, very mildly and gently, to correct Trump. 5. Vance interrupts Zelensky : “How dare you attempt to litigate this before the American people? You should just be grateful for our help! Where is your gratitude?”

Are you serious with this? Innocent people are dying and this is a thing for you?

Would you guys stop with this veiled threat thing? All Zelensky said, pretty mildly, is that he doesn’t believe Putin will stop with Ukraine and that Putin’s designs on Europe is a threat to our national security. Zelensky said the exact same thing 6 months ago before a joint session of Congress and received a standing ovation. It’s his public position. You guys (and Trump) act like it was something new, and insulting to us.

What issue? I still have no idea what Zelensky said that was disrespectful or insulting. I’ve watched it several times now. Vance and Trump were incredibly rude, kept interrupting, bullying, told one outright lie after another. Zelensky mostly just sat there and took it.

I’m trying to remember you complaining about how Elon Musk dresses at the WH, wearing his stupid black hat at a cabinet meeting. I don’t recall you or anyone saying anything about that…

First off, I don’t believe that Trump was elected because of his views on Ukraine. Exit polls say that for most voters that was way down the list of priorities. I don’t disagree with your second paragraph. Yes a deal will be done and yes Ukraine will have to make concessions. I think Zelensky recognizes that as well. My disagreement with you is not about this end result but about exactly who was at fault for the blow up yesterday. I say Trump and Vance; I think it was embarrassing. Russia will have to make some concessions too. Does Trump get this? He doesn’t act like he does. His tirade yesterday in which he talked about Putin being a victim of Hillary and Schiff was probably the most embarrassing moment.

Calling Zelensky an ungrateful or spoiled child is an amazing distortion. We’re talking about a guy whose country has been brutally invaded, who is facing an enemy who bombs hospitals and schools and slaughters thousands of innocent people. There is no difference, in terms of good and evil, between Putin and Hamas. I wish some of you could show the moral clarity in this situation that you do with Israel. I’ve yet to hear any of you call Netanyahu a spoiled ungrateful child and we have given him far more aid than Zelensky.

You’re expressing the MAGA view of things which is your prerogative. I’m hoping the American people don’t see it that way.

Most conspiracies aren’t real. I keep trying to tell you guys that.

Good analysis from The Bulwark: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-vance-zelensky-oval-office-shameful-appalling-spectacle I’ve been reading the circle jerk in this thread this morning and even for this forum it’s hard to stomach. Trump was a total embarrassment yesterday and you guys are slobbering on his knob like he’s some kind of hero. It’s really sad.

Losing for Trump. And the US will not be done with Ukraine one way or another. And you’ll continue to pay. Get used to it.

Nope. We’re going to continue to support Ukraine and it’s coming out of your tax dollars. Too bad, so sad.

You can’t agree with this and with @Mark Davis’s take as well. They contradict each other.

I generally agree with this. Though I don’t think Zelensky will apologize, they will ultimately get together IMO and work out some sort of deal.

You’re right but not for the reason you think. Lakers are playing.

The date of the Cato article is 2021. That’s prior to the invasion. I don’t think it’s relevant to the situation after the invasion.

I’ll read all of it. Cato is a source I trust.

No I don’t want transparency in conversations between world leaders. I don’t think it’s a good or useful thing. I would prefer to learn about it afterwards.

I don’t know that to be true. In the past I’ve never been a fan of Ukraine. Too much anti-Semitic history for me and a very corrupt state. But I like Zelensky, I like what I’ve heard from him (long before today.) I think most of the authoritarian stuff is coming from Russian propaganda and I don’t believe it. I think he personally is a good guy and honest. I’ve seen nothing to contradict that.

I keep forgetting who I’m responding to. Damn you’re such a moron. Go back to rooting for people to die in fires.

He would not agree to a ceasefire without assurances of security and Russia agreed to withdraw from Ukraine. . How is that disrespectful? Why would he publicly agree to a ceasefire? If part of the USA was occupied by a foreign invader, would we ever agree to a ceasefire without the invader first withdrawing?

No there are rare earth minerals that we don’t have and China does. And that’s the competition: us and China. That’s the big picture. I think even Trump gets this although apparently you don’t.

Right. But I also think that the doom and gloom coming from the Democrats and MSNBC are wrong too. They say this isn’t fixable. I think it is, and I think in a few days Trump will talk to Zelensky again and it will be like none of this ever happened. I’m a lifelong Lakers fan. About 20 years ago there were these feuds between Shaq, Kobe Bryant, and Phil Jackson. They would each tell the Los Angeles Times completely unforgivable things about the others and you’d think, OK the team just blew up, they can’t possibly play together anymore. And then they’d go out and pretend none of it ever happened and they won 3 championships in a row all the while pointing fingers at each other (still the last team ever to do that.) All this is is just talk, it means nothing.

I really have to challenge this. Trump says the same thing all the time, but I don’t see any evidence of it, certainly not from Zelensky. His only disagreement with Trump was about who started the war. How exactly was he being disrespectful. As always, for much of the press conference Trump told lie after lie after lie. (For example the tired lie that we’ve given 380 billion to Ukraine and received nothing back.) Zelensky could have interrupted him several times and said that’s just not true. He didn’t. Out of politeness he kept his mouth shut for the most part, disagreeing only when Trump argued that we should trust Putin. And he wasn’t rude or disrespectful about it.

Not really. Is our support for Ukraine supposed to be predicated on whether he wears a suit or thanks Trump enough? That’s really childish don’t you think? Our support, as always, should be based solely on whether in its our best interests to support them. I think we can all at least agree on that basic idea. I say it still is, though I expect many of you to disagree with me. The minerals deal is still on the table and we need it. I have an optimistic feeling we’ll get it done, because in the end Zelensky needs our support as well.