Sean Mooney

"our nonsense" Yeah I guess if you ignore all the court cases that were either heard or thrown out- then yeah- nothing got done.

Maybe the election observers need to be sitting on the counter's lap?

And how much of that evidence was legitimate and used to prosecute all these people who were perpetuating voter fraud on everyone?

It's even more than that- you have to believe the Democrats were smart enough to rig the Presidential election yet not smart enough to rig the down ballot elections to give themselves more of a cushion. Because again- they lost House seats. The Senate did not uniformly flip like people thought.

How many ballot boxes are you putting up? Are they just in certain areas? Are they in certain counties? Are they placed at each individual voting precincts? Are they placed at township/municipal buildings? Who is installing all these cameras to monitor them? Who is paying for the extra webspace to livestream these cameras?

Do you honestly think the YouTuber is presenting things in a fair manner? I mean- I've got a bridge I can sell you too.... And- you've been sold a narrative too and you are buying every piece of it.

That is the thing about the mail in bill- it passed with bipartisian support in 2019. Then Trump lost in 2020- started crying about it- and people started running on being election deniers (including the guy running for governor as GOP who paid to bus people to the January 6th rally/party/shindig) Here is stuff on the undated ballot stuff:

Just so we are clear- and because the strawmen are already being built: Voter ID's are not a terrible idea. Sure there's not really a mass of people misrepresenting themselves : (https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-can-vote/vote-suppression/myth-voter-fraud) but fine- whatever. But beyond that (officials getting to overturn county vote counts, or all that nonsense stuff) is too far. Seriously though- what is the voting process for you all where you vote? Is there a lot of cases of fraud all over these places?

The PA Supreme Court disagrees with you on the idea that people were not allowed to observe. But I'm supposed to take some YouTuber with a camera strapped to his head as an authority? Okay.

So that was a long way of just admitting I never said it...

Where did I ever say "showing ID" was unreasonable? I'm saying going beyond that is unreasonable and many of the laws go beyond just that.

So you want it to be harder for all people to vote? Votes have always been allowed for a period of time before and after the actual day. Again- states individually decide this, if you want to change it there needs to be a universal policy but then that pulls away from "state's rights."

No. I quoted an article on the bill. They weren't my words. It was just a way of pointing out there is potentially more to the bill than the ID portion.

You guys- you always fall back on this creating sides dynamic. Maybe the 100th time will sink in on you- I don't have "results I wanted." If Trump would've won, he won- who cares? He won in 2016 and my life continued on. Biden won in 2020 and my life has continued on. There was no dark cloud of shenanigans. It was a secure election by every measure. all the cases that were brought up were basically told either "This is untrue" or "There is no evidence you have to support this." And all you can fall back on is "Well Chocolate Starfish#1 on YouTube recorded some things and he is legitimate." People were observed. In the case you specifically mentioned they found they were observed. So you are upset because "They need to let them observe." When they did now it is "Well, they need to be in their pocket to do it."

It's the one you attacked specifically. Why can't you understand that my version of "secure election" might not be the same as yours? FFS

I'm not sure why you need to reduce the number of ballot boxes. I would also be curious as to where those ballot boxes are being removed- I would imagine they are being moved from strategically picked areas. Also, think state officials should not be able to circumvent the work of county election officials.....do you agree that those things are okay?

Observers were allowed in the room has apparently become "they were bullied and intimidated and not allowed to observe."

That is also biased in what they are recording and presenting. C'mon man. You know this.

The ID thing is one aspect of that law: "Governor Brian Kemp just signed into law a bill that adds many obstacles to voting, including reducing the number of ballot boxes, shrinking the window for early voting, adding additional photo ID requirements, and allowing state officials to circumvent the work of county election officials if they don’t like the outcomes they are seeing. The Georgia bill even goes so far as to make it illegal for outside groups to give water or food to voters stuck in long lines." I'm not going with talking points.

Look- I'm fine with you guys deciding that the media is biased and all that so you want to discount it....but to then give a video from the "Vatican Catholic" and portray that as real news is not uber compelling.

I think Biden clearly won in 2020. The GOP picked up House seats, they stopped the Senate from becoming too far gone leaving them the ability to flip it now in 2022, only Trump lost. And I think that was largely because people were tired of the circus around him. It is obvious now that inflation is up, prices are up on things- I'm not sure how much of that is Biden's policies solely versus some mix of runoff from a global pandemic and Trump's policies but either way- perception is reality to voters so they will vote out Democrats because of those issues. And the GOP does a better job of getting out their messaging (regardless of how truthful it is) so that helps them. I appreciate the hustle.. I don't think anyone fights against secure elections. But I think the sticking point is there is no real evidence that people are voting without voter IDs or any of those things. So in some respects it gets painted as/comes across as sour grapes.

So if I'm following this properly the discussion is: "The Democrats bullied and intimidated observers and wouldn't let them in." (Supreme Court investigates and finds it to lack merit) "Well it's fixed." Perhaps it is that the stuff didn't exist.

Let's be very clear- Inflation, gas prices, economy, safety, reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, gun rights, etc- these are things that are always on the ballot in one way or another. They are real issues in some cases and in others they are used as wedge issues to drive people apart and favor one party or the other. Election security- is a false issue at this point being made into something because the last President got butthurt because people voted him out despite him thinking he was doing the work as the best President of all time. And many people are running on it either explicitly or implicitly. I doubt people are voting on it. They are voting on the real issues but when these dopes get in they won't have answers for the real issues because they ran on the fake one.

The PA mail voting law was passed in 2019 with bipartisan support in PA. And in August the Supreme Court of PA upheld the law despite the challenges to it. But either way I was more speaking to the idea of mail in balloting and counting always being done at a state level as the way it was always done. Again- there is no national across the board platform on this. Do you have links to all these cases of election fraud that were so prevalent in PA in 2020? How many were found valid? Again- mail in voting has always existed. States have their own rules as to how they count it and when they start counting it and all that. Until you make an across-the-board policy, it is what it is.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/its-official-election-was-secure https://www.cisa.gov/rumorcontrol