Ray_T

people definitely see what they wanna see. and hear what they wanna hear. from my perspective, the reports on him seem to be all over the map. I'm very serious about this. I see one report saying his pro day was brilliant. another saying it was a bust. which makes me wonder if some of the people writing these reviews even know anything about football. I'm gonna try to check out some of the tape on this kid before the draft as clearly there is no concensus about this kid. Granted, when you are not the top ranked QB this might be the reason. But I do have an idea of what I like in a QB prospect and based on the one scouting report, he has at least some of the traits you want to see. From what I can tell, the one thing I'll say is when there is no pressure, hes not gonna make an unforced error. I fully acknowledge there are not a lot of occasions where there is no pressure at the NFL level but you'd be surprised at how many unforced errors are made by QB's who are drafted early in round 1.

Hey, I dont think there is a whole lot more development for purdy. hes going into his 4th year as a pro. I think if the 49 ers bring in Rodgers, they NEED to dump Purdy. I dont think there is any question about that. and are you gonna dump Purdy for an aging vet who might give you one good year (two at most) I think not. but I have seen an awful lot of strange things happen, so I wont completely rule it out but I dont see this happening unless Shanny thinks Purdy isnt the QB of the future. (which leads me to say they absolutely NEED to trade Purdy if they sign Rodgers.)

well, the good news is, hes not the consensus top QB in the draft so he can likely be had without breaking the bank

you didnt need to go through all of that to make your point. lots here would tell you that straight away lol

I am just telling you what I saw in the scouting report. it does remind me a lot of Dak prescotts scouting report when he turned pro. he was not a first round pick. All I am doing is telling you what I see in the report. to that end, what I see in his scouting report reminds me a lot of what I read in Daks when he turned pro. Thats all I am saying. it feels like hes a QB that need a line in front of him but he does scramble and that mitigates (but does not eliminate) this need somewhat. maybe he didnt have a good line in front of him when he played and this likely is part of the reason hes given a bit of a pass on the scouting report. I dont think hes the top QB in this draft, but I do think he is draftable and in the right situation, can be a player. but his ability to perform may be situational. (translation late first or 2nd round pick)

well, this isnt entirely abnormal. and most of those teams had franchise QB who could get them there. I'm guessing if you look at the teams with no appearances, most of them havent a QB who can consistently play or they have a carousel of QB who may have been highly drafted, but who couldnt get it done at the pro level. I guess my question to you is what is your point that you are trying to make?

hes a QB that needs a good line in front of him to perform. his scouting report doesnt read all that different from that of Dak Prescott. he makes bad decisions when the pass rush is in his face (paraphrased) he makes plays with his legs when there is nothing there just like Dak (but hes not as good a runner as dak is) like Dak, hes a situational QB who can perform if the line in front of him is good. Dak just got lucky in that he was drafted by the team with the leagues best O line which covered up a lot of his weaknesses. if drafted into a similar situation he might be ok. but the line in front of him NEEDS to be good. Otherwise the kid likely doesnt perform. are there any teams out there with a top O line in need of a QB?

I cannot say for sure I'm 100% right but its still an educated guess with a couple cases that appear to fit the theory. you never truly know unless you are in the room. but I have found the best coaches will tweak or even change the system they run to take advantage of the skillsets of their players. the worst coaches will try to make a square peg fit into a round hole and make the player adapt to the system. sometimes the player can do it. Sometimes not. but typically in that scenario the GM NEEDS to draft players who fit the system to a T, otherwise you are churning through players at a pace thats not sustainable. This is largely the difference between college coaches and pro level coaches. in college, you can easily recruit players that fit your system far easier than it is to draft them at the pro level where other teams running a similar system may draft those players ahead of you.

I actually see some similar comments compared to Dak Prescott's scouting report when he came out of school. I seem to recall the scouting report on Dak was hes not that good when the pass rush is in his face. but then he landed in Dallas (who had what may have been the best O line in the NFL at that time) and proceeded to win the starting job once Romo got hurt. I think Dak is a better runner than him but both of them could be a similar style of QB at the NFL level. The QB run will be used when the pass play breaks down but wont be a regular play call by the offense. I do think in a similar environment behind a good O line this kid can be good. Might need a red shirt year to get to that point (especially if the O line is not doing a great job in pass protection)

the issue I think they have had in the past, is they would bring in players from a different scheme (ie. patriots) that dont necessarily fit the Giants blocking scheme. so its possible that the issue could be scheme/fit related moreso than talent related. granted the player needs to take some of the responsibility, but so does the coaching staff. part of your job as a coach is putting your player in the best position to be successful. if the players dont fully fit the scheme, thats partly a gm problem but also the coach also needs to coach them up and/or tweak the scheme to take advantage of the individual player strengths while minimizing their weaknesses.

hey I went to click on the video tape examples that are broken out and it says video unavailable. not sure what that is about but thought you should be aware.

well, Nabers looks like hes already fine. yeah, player development is certainly part GM and part coach but the GM needs to take some responsibility. I'd say at this point they have struggled to get their young O linemen to play consistently well enough. this has contributed to other issues elsewhere in the offense.

fair enough. the sample size of games I saw was small, and the line was not good in those games. I just assumed the line was still bad. Though in a cap world you still need to replace those 10 M players at some point. as signed free agents, Those guys are (I am guessing) a 2-3 year solution and because of their age, durability and good health wont be as good so depth is more important with guys like that starting. so drafting their eventual replacement should be a priority (just not an immediate one). but maybe you dont need to spend a first/second round pick. you can likely spend a 3rd or 4th rounder and develop them over a year or two while adding some depth to the mix. and yeah I can see the DT being a priority. The D was not that scary

well, if building a team this is what I like to see. you cant have your young QB operating without a good line. Ideally a great line. thing is, you can get by with a lower talent RB if your line is good. so many good things can happen in the offense when the line plays well and does what it needs to do. I'd argue its the most important area to win the battle on the field. If you control the LOS, you control the game (for the most part)

well, I wouldnt argue with that If I was a pats fan (which I am not) I assume the signing of Diggs was to give a weapon to Maye, and to allow them to address other needs in the draft. OT likely being one of those needs. if this is the path they are taking.... I dont mind it.

I still think the O line is by far the most urgent need for this team it is my belief that you need AT LEAST a passable O line for the offense to perform at anywhere close to a good level. look where Sequons production went when he left New York and went to Philly. Thats what a good O line gives you. I dont know how realistic this is.....but if they can trade back 2 or 3 spots and get another high pick (maybe a 2nd) they could maybe target Jeanty and then use both of their seconds to draft interior O linemen (presumably guards) and provided those picks turn out, this team would likely be able to manage in that scenario. Might take up to a year to get those guards up to speed at the NFL level, but the team will be reasonably well equipped going forward.

yeah, i think hes an automatic 1000 yard QB for any reasonable starter in the nfl. But throw a backup QB (cough cough Devito) in there at QB there are no assurances that hes a 1000 yard WR in that situation. He can only do so much if the QB cannot get him the ball.

to properly develop a young QB you need at least have one good WR (preferably two) and a solid line to play behind. you can get by with only one good WR if you have a reasonable ground game. this time last year they had neither. They had just let go of Sequon, they had a line that (other than LT) was poor. and they had no real good WR. drafting a QB likely would have ended up the same way as the danny dimes fiasco. Poor line, and below average WR for his whole tenure as a QB. At least now if they draft a QB at least they will have somebody to throw the ball to. still I think the right move is to wait one more year and fill the holes on the O line. but at least if they draft someone today that person will have a true #1 WR to throw the ball to. they might be able to get away with drafting a guard in round 2. Probably get one of the top 2 or 3 on the board at that point in the draft. Line will still be subpar but not as bad as last year.

you still need to field a team so people go to the games. If they want to get the best QB in the next draft I suspect that trading back in the draft is more likely to be the play here. if they can get a first round pick next year as part of the package, then they will have multiple firsts and have an option to move up if they need to.

he was real good when he arrived. made a big impact as a rookie running a ball control offense. pass yards + rush yards were consistently in the 4000+ range and he was fast. you couldnt catch him back there. He was also not a first round pick. so no 5th year option. so he got paid earlier than all the other QB in his draft class. I know he doesnt look like much now, but hes gained weight and gotten older. hes not fast like he was. so the player he is now is not the same as the player that came into the NFL and set the world on fire as a rookie.

you could be right. but in almost every possible scenario, the right move for the team is to start Wilson. I cant see the team straying from that unless Winston shows all the potential that made him a 5000 yard passer that one year but without the interceptions. certainly its possible. You cannot rule it out. Some QB are late bloomers and despite his shortcomings, 5000 yard passers do not grow on trees. I imagine there are no shortage of coaches who look at that season and think..... If I can coach him up and get him to toss less than 12 interceptions over the course of a year and keep most of that upside, Id really have something here. it is also possible he will wake up one day and find that the game has slowed down for him a bit and the INT just wont happen anymore. I dont wanna guess at the odds of that happening. I havent a clue. but every coach in the nfl would love to see it happen while hes on their team.

yeah I think given his age and diva attitude, he has a shelf life of 2 years tops. long enough to develop someone to replace him. I guess this is all they truly need. its a band aid solution but I agree with a young QB you need to have at least one reliable target for him to continue along his development curve. I have no problem with the move. Team likely doesnt have enough draft picks to address all of their needs so this move allows them to address another area that is on fire at the draft.

well, I dont think they did a good job of putting Danny dimes into a position to succeed if thats what you mean. I'm also pretty sure that falls more on the GM than it does the coach. sadly a couple of coaches have paid the price here when it was the GM who deserved to go. But this is the way of pro football. To properly develop a QB you need a decent line and some good, route running WR vets along with a young stud WR who can grow along with his QB. in all the years Danny dimes was there I think there may have been one year where the line was passable. possibly 2. and when I say passable I mean meets the minimum standard that would allow a QB to play to a reasonable level. This is not the same as a line that is good enough to let the QB thrive or have a career season. There were also some years where i dont think they had any WR that were more than a WR2/3. so a lot went wrong. I dont deny they tried by drafting some players for the O line and signing a free agent or two, but all met with failure. judging and deciding on what talent to bring in clearly falls under the job of the GM. Developing that talent is an organizational thing. part is drafting it, and part is coaching them up so they can be good pros. Coaches take some responsibility there, but I'd say its 50% coaches and 50% gm/organization. Clearly they were not able to get it done one way or another. And if Danny Dimes ends up lighting it up in Indy the whole organizaton is gonna look real dumb. Especially after they let Sequon walk and the he has a season for the ages in his first season in Philly. All that being said, I dont have a ton of faith that they will be successful in developing a new QB but I also have to hope they have learned from their mistakes. my belief is that they should trade back, and draft an O line. it usually takes a full season for a drafted player to come into his own, so in running with the QB they have I think its fair to say they will not likely be a playoff team. Thats fine. but in the interim they need to at least make it look like they are trying to be competitive while they retool this franchise. You cant be playing in an empty stadium. but at some point they do need to draft and develop a QB. There is no getting around this. Some QB are also good enough to perform despite a lack of talent/coaching. I'm not sure that anyone in this class meets that criteria which is why Im suggesting a trade back instead of a trade up to get a QB. I dont think anyone in this draft class will be able to perform behind a bad line. If they feel strongly, I guess they can draft someone, but if going that route, the responsible thing would be to let him sit and learn from Wilson who is a seasoned vet. my feeling is that none of the things I think they should do will come to pass. I think you may be right about the giants will keep gianting. Though I hope your prediction is wrong. it will be painful seeing them make the same mistakes over and over again and I'm not even a giants fan. Imagine how the Giants fans feel? anyhow I digress. You know how I feel. I have said enough .

well, when the QB you draft doesnt work out it really puts you between a rock and a hard place. especially if you pay to move up in the draft to get them. because those extra picks could have filled holes elsewhere in the roster. some of those holes still exist in the roster. My hope is that they draft players to address this and run with the QB they have. while not ideal, I still firmly believe that line isnt good enough to put a rookie in there. you'll just ruin the kid. I have not seen any signings that excite me that would improve the line in any significant way other than adding a bit of depth. so my belief is that they may be looking to address the line this year in the draft. So long as they put significant resources to draft and develop those players, they could have the makings of a reasonable line in time to draft a QB next year. I'd probably be inclined to trade back in the draft get an extra pick or two and load up on O linemen. Maybe a right tackle in round 1 or early round 2. and/or a guard in the first 3 rounds. if taking a guard in round 2-3 it may take a year until hes ready to start but thats fine if you are committed to the rebuild.

i disagree. its the worst case scenario for the team. but not for Nabers. there are far worse alternatives for Nabers. Winston has been able to put up lots of yards and TD. his issue is that he throws far too many INT. That is the reason he is bad. dude is one of 9 QB who have thrown for 5000 yards in a season. Thats pretty elite company. The only possible reason a 5000 yard passer cannot keep a starting job is turnovers. but WR do not get punished when the QB gets interceptions in fantasy. if he gets 1200 yards receiving along with reasonable TD's I doubt any of you care how many INT Winston throws if you are a Nabers owner. In fact, early INT mean he has to open things up to get back in the game. Probably better for numbers in a weird sort of way. Shootout wins and losses are good for fantasy stats for all pass catchers. like I said before, its not bad for the Nabers stats unless hes so bad he gets pulled. but it is bad for the team in the only stats that matter. Wins and losses