Ray_T

well, if building a team this is what I like to see. you cant have your young QB operating without a good line. Ideally a great line. thing is, you can get by with a lower talent RB if your line is good. so many good things can happen in the offense when the line plays well and does what it needs to do. I'd argue its the most important area to win the battle on the field. If you control the LOS, you control the game (for the most part)

well, I wouldnt argue with that If I was a pats fan (which I am not) I assume the signing of Diggs was to give a weapon to Maye, and to allow them to address other needs in the draft. OT likely being one of those needs. if this is the path they are taking.... I dont mind it.

I still think the O line is by far the most urgent need for this team it is my belief that you need AT LEAST a passable O line for the offense to perform at anywhere close to a good level. look where Sequons production went when he left New York and went to Philly. Thats what a good O line gives you. I dont know how realistic this is.....but if they can trade back 2 or 3 spots and get another high pick (maybe a 2nd) they could maybe target Jeanty and then use both of their seconds to draft interior O linemen (presumably guards) and provided those picks turn out, this team would likely be able to manage in that scenario. Might take up to a year to get those guards up to speed at the NFL level, but the team will be reasonably well equipped going forward.

yeah, i think hes an automatic 1000 yard QB for any reasonable starter in the nfl. But throw a backup QB (cough cough Devito) in there at QB there are no assurances that hes a 1000 yard WR in that situation. He can only do so much if the QB cannot get him the ball.

to properly develop a young QB you need at least have one good WR (preferably two) and a solid line to play behind. you can get by with only one good WR if you have a reasonable ground game. this time last year they had neither. They had just let go of Sequon, they had a line that (other than LT) was poor. and they had no real good WR. drafting a QB likely would have ended up the same way as the danny dimes fiasco. Poor line, and below average WR for his whole tenure as a QB. At least now if they draft a QB at least they will have somebody to throw the ball to. still I think the right move is to wait one more year and fill the holes on the O line. but at least if they draft someone today that person will have a true #1 WR to throw the ball to. they might be able to get away with drafting a guard in round 2. Probably get one of the top 2 or 3 on the board at that point in the draft. Line will still be subpar but not as bad as last year.

you still need to field a team so people go to the games. If they want to get the best QB in the next draft I suspect that trading back in the draft is more likely to be the play here. if they can get a first round pick next year as part of the package, then they will have multiple firsts and have an option to move up if they need to.

he was real good when he arrived. made a big impact as a rookie running a ball control offense. pass yards + rush yards were consistently in the 4000+ range and he was fast. you couldnt catch him back there. He was also not a first round pick. so no 5th year option. so he got paid earlier than all the other QB in his draft class. I know he doesnt look like much now, but hes gained weight and gotten older. hes not fast like he was. so the player he is now is not the same as the player that came into the NFL and set the world on fire as a rookie.

you could be right. but in almost every possible scenario, the right move for the team is to start Wilson. I cant see the team straying from that unless Winston shows all the potential that made him a 5000 yard passer that one year but without the interceptions. certainly its possible. You cannot rule it out. Some QB are late bloomers and despite his shortcomings, 5000 yard passers do not grow on trees. I imagine there are no shortage of coaches who look at that season and think..... If I can coach him up and get him to toss less than 12 interceptions over the course of a year and keep most of that upside, Id really have something here. it is also possible he will wake up one day and find that the game has slowed down for him a bit and the INT just wont happen anymore. I dont wanna guess at the odds of that happening. I havent a clue. but every coach in the nfl would love to see it happen while hes on their team.

yeah I think given his age and diva attitude, he has a shelf life of 2 years tops. long enough to develop someone to replace him. I guess this is all they truly need. its a band aid solution but I agree with a young QB you need to have at least one reliable target for him to continue along his development curve. I have no problem with the move. Team likely doesnt have enough draft picks to address all of their needs so this move allows them to address another area that is on fire at the draft.

well, I dont think they did a good job of putting Danny dimes into a position to succeed if thats what you mean. I'm also pretty sure that falls more on the GM than it does the coach. sadly a couple of coaches have paid the price here when it was the GM who deserved to go. But this is the way of pro football. To properly develop a QB you need a decent line and some good, route running WR vets along with a young stud WR who can grow along with his QB. in all the years Danny dimes was there I think there may have been one year where the line was passable. possibly 2. and when I say passable I mean meets the minimum standard that would allow a QB to play to a reasonable level. This is not the same as a line that is good enough to let the QB thrive or have a career season. There were also some years where i dont think they had any WR that were more than a WR2/3. so a lot went wrong. I dont deny they tried by drafting some players for the O line and signing a free agent or two, but all met with failure. judging and deciding on what talent to bring in clearly falls under the job of the GM. Developing that talent is an organizational thing. part is drafting it, and part is coaching them up so they can be good pros. Coaches take some responsibility there, but I'd say its 50% coaches and 50% gm/organization. Clearly they were not able to get it done one way or another. And if Danny Dimes ends up lighting it up in Indy the whole organizaton is gonna look real dumb. Especially after they let Sequon walk and the he has a season for the ages in his first season in Philly. All that being said, I dont have a ton of faith that they will be successful in developing a new QB but I also have to hope they have learned from their mistakes. my belief is that they should trade back, and draft an O line. it usually takes a full season for a drafted player to come into his own, so in running with the QB they have I think its fair to say they will not likely be a playoff team. Thats fine. but in the interim they need to at least make it look like they are trying to be competitive while they retool this franchise. You cant be playing in an empty stadium. but at some point they do need to draft and develop a QB. There is no getting around this. Some QB are also good enough to perform despite a lack of talent/coaching. I'm not sure that anyone in this class meets that criteria which is why Im suggesting a trade back instead of a trade up to get a QB. I dont think anyone in this draft class will be able to perform behind a bad line. If they feel strongly, I guess they can draft someone, but if going that route, the responsible thing would be to let him sit and learn from Wilson who is a seasoned vet. my feeling is that none of the things I think they should do will come to pass. I think you may be right about the giants will keep gianting. Though I hope your prediction is wrong. it will be painful seeing them make the same mistakes over and over again and I'm not even a giants fan. Imagine how the Giants fans feel? anyhow I digress. You know how I feel. I have said enough .

well, when the QB you draft doesnt work out it really puts you between a rock and a hard place. especially if you pay to move up in the draft to get them. because those extra picks could have filled holes elsewhere in the roster. some of those holes still exist in the roster. My hope is that they draft players to address this and run with the QB they have. while not ideal, I still firmly believe that line isnt good enough to put a rookie in there. you'll just ruin the kid. I have not seen any signings that excite me that would improve the line in any significant way other than adding a bit of depth. so my belief is that they may be looking to address the line this year in the draft. So long as they put significant resources to draft and develop those players, they could have the makings of a reasonable line in time to draft a QB next year. I'd probably be inclined to trade back in the draft get an extra pick or two and load up on O linemen. Maybe a right tackle in round 1 or early round 2. and/or a guard in the first 3 rounds. if taking a guard in round 2-3 it may take a year until hes ready to start but thats fine if you are committed to the rebuild.

i disagree. its the worst case scenario for the team. but not for Nabers. there are far worse alternatives for Nabers. Winston has been able to put up lots of yards and TD. his issue is that he throws far too many INT. That is the reason he is bad. dude is one of 9 QB who have thrown for 5000 yards in a season. Thats pretty elite company. The only possible reason a 5000 yard passer cannot keep a starting job is turnovers. but WR do not get punished when the QB gets interceptions in fantasy. if he gets 1200 yards receiving along with reasonable TD's I doubt any of you care how many INT Winston throws if you are a Nabers owner. In fact, early INT mean he has to open things up to get back in the game. Probably better for numbers in a weird sort of way. Shootout wins and losses are good for fantasy stats for all pass catchers. like I said before, its not bad for the Nabers stats unless hes so bad he gets pulled. but it is bad for the team in the only stats that matter. Wins and losses

fair point.

you are right. running QB are a thing now. wanna know why? There are a lot of teams (too many in my opinion) who are too lazy to take the proper route to building a team. They dont wanna build a line and then get the QB. The theory is that if you get a running QB you can wait on the line. This is true to a point. but you still need to provide a minimal level of protection so the kid can learn and grow without running for his life. Very hard to learn when running for your life every other play. and when you do that your large investment in a QB takes a lot more hits and the career length is shorter as a result. I also think that the running QB needs to be able to at least hit his WR. if he cant, teams will just pin their ears back and go after the QB because the threat to beat them with the pass isnt there. but you know how it is..... for every 2 or 3 RGII or Richardsons out there, there is a Jaylen Hurts type. scouting report on him was a lot like Richardson but he worked really hard to fix his throwing motion. He was a very inaccurate thrower when he started out. I honestly didnt think he would make it, but I think his work ethic and committment to make himself better allowed him to take that next step. and truly, not every QB can do that. if the throwing mechanics are off, it is not easy to fix a throwing motion thats been like it is for years. some QB can fix it, others cannot.

well, Wilson is not a young man. people were talking like he was totally done a couple years ago. hes clearly not the QB he once was but can be a decent enough game manager. Still throws a decent deep ball from what I hear, but I dont know if hes good enough to lead this team to the playoffs. there are simply too many holes in the lineup. This is just a bandage to stop the bleeding. Eventually the bandage gets old and falls off. I'd say best case scenario is this team finishes 9-8. Possibly 10-7 if they get unbelievably lucky and pull some upsets. more often than not thats not good enough for the playoffs. and keep in mind, this is (in my opinion) the best case scenario. more likely is the team is 8-9 or 7-10. Better than last year, but the bar there is pretty low. but there are so many holes in this linuep I dont know that putting a rookie QB in there (even a good one) is necessarily the best move. The line still has issues. Maybe the right move is to grab a plug and play tackle so that they have good bookends. Maybe a guard or a center in round 2. Assuming we give those guys a year to get their play up to a decent level, Then they have the foundation for a good line next year. and if they stink the joint out with Wilson, they can draft a QB at that time granted, I dont think thats the way it will play out at all. but if they do draft a QB I'd suggest letting him sit all year long. the line is still pretty bad other than the LT spot. So putting a rookie out behind that line is just gonna ruin him (like what happened to Danny Dimes perhaps?) the kid can maybe play late in the season when it is clear a playoff spot is out of reach. get him warmed up for next year.

just curious, wasnt his contract 24 M when he was traded to Houston. in return for a renegotiation both sides agreed to void the deal and live with only the 1 year at 22M. now hes signing at virtually the same (ok a bit less) at 23M per. He lost money on this in the end. granted not a lot but I guess he gained in the long run because if he had to wait another year to renegotiate he might not have gotten the contract he did.

and if Jameis can learn a thing or two from Wilson, he might actually be startable when wilson is done. maybe its wishful thinking, but anyone who has thrown for 5000 yards certainly has the upside if he can figure things out. I just hope they are smart enough to draft an O line guy. only guy I really liked on that line was their LT. but I dont think that is enough.

did you look at the offense they ran this year? it was a very conservative offense. While I fully acknowledge the Steelers have a very good defense so maybe they didnt need to take chances but Winston does not fit with that philosophy. Rodgers is a bit of a gunslinger, but he also (for the most part) looks after the ball. and for a couple of his later years in Green Bay they really ran more of a ball control offense. And Ball control is what The Steelers want to run hes a better fit in that offense than Winston. No question about it. whether his personality is a fit remains to be seen. but if he can duplicate the stats he had in New york, I think they can win with this defense.

to compete with Richardson for the starting job. wow, I never saw this one coming

both of you are right. the pride of the organization will make that decision. whether it is a mistake still remains to be seen. but I remember having this exact conversation about Hurts and then one day it all clicked for him and we were all eating our words. obviously this is not the exact same situation but both he and Hurts at this point in their careers had questions so I dont think they are ready to give up on him yet. I think he gets at least one more good shot to keep his job. after that, it really depends on a lot of things. such as how well jones plays once he gets into the starting lineup. if he lights it up, Richardson likely goes on the block. if he is mediocre, Richardson likely gets another kick at it.

I wasnt saying they were doing the wrong thing. Im just saying the options are limited. I suspect the reason he wasnt signed is because the steelers were not willing to give him the money he wants so the told him to test the market. I think he knows now where he stands. there may be a team frendly deal here, and there may not. but I agree. 30M is an obscene amount to spend on a QB if you are not winning. so we will see where Wilson lands. Maybe another 1 year deal somewhere.... at this point Wilsons options are not numerous either and most of his options are not likely playoff teams with him at QB. At least in Pittsburgh, its possible. What it comes down to is whether Wison wants to chase the money or whether he wants a chance to take his team into the playoffs

of course. and that is the rub. if he has a 4 or 5 INT game, and gets benched, Nabers wont put up anywhere close to elite stats with Devito. Thats how winston hurts his value. its when hes off the field that Nabers stats will be subpar (by his standards)

I dont disagree, but I wouldnt underestimate the loyalty of management in this case. They drafted Richardson and he was their guy. by replacing him they would have to admit they botched the pick. management does not generally like to admit when they have made a mistake, so I think they will give Richardson every chance to keep his job and prove that he wasnt a bad choice. this is why I think Danny Dimes cant just be slightly better than Richardson to get the starting job. he needs to be significantly better. this is just as much about whether managment will swallow their pride and move on from a guy that they were sure would be their franchise QB. Its not as simple as saying Jones is better. He may be.... but to win the starting job he needs to not only be better.... he needs to be significantly better. Not saying it wont happen. but I'm saying its still Richardsons job to lose until we know otherwise. good news, you can likely get jones for cheap in all formats. so if you believe in him, the cost of betting on him is very low. I may even take a shot myself in my superflex auction league. if he has yet to be declared the starter at the time of my draft, he would probably be the best #4 QB a guy could ask for. lol

at this point there are not a lot of options. Wilson is still unsigned is he not? I"m wondering if they sign Wilson to a 1 or 2 year deal (if wilson is willing) and then try to trade up to draft the next guy. at least with Wilson, they know what they are getting. but I suspect Wilson is holding out for a longer term deal if he can get it. though in this landscape it is hard to see what some teams are likely to do.

agreed. I think its still Richardsons job to lose. but I think the colts are losing patience with him. at the end of the day, they may also need to de-program Danny dimes from his time in New York. whether that takes a month or a year remains to be seen. but if Danny dimes is clearly the better QB in camp, I do think they will consider giving him the job. if its close, I think Richardson retains his job but will go into the season on a short leash. If he starts poorly, he will be quickly replaced