Tweaking the scoring system (Punt Returns)

[Dan Sez 0]

After closer study:

 

I suggest we raise the punt return yards. They are tougher than the kickoff return who usually get 10 free yards before anyone even gets close to them.

 

A punt return of 15 yards is usually more difficult than a KO return of 25 yards.

 

If we raise the punt return yards to the ration of passing yards, it would give another couple or three points to the better players.

 

This is a fringe scoring area. Does anyone think this would unbalance things in any way?

 

Comments?

[Dan Sez 0]

whoisjgalt commented:

 

2003 stats:

 

256 games, 512 team-games

 

1,209 punt returns for 11,535 yards (9.54 avg)

that's 22.53 punt return yards per team-game

 

2,161 kick returns for 46,587 yards (21.56 avg)

that's 90.99 kick return yards per team-game

 

many teams have two guys back there for kick returns, but only one for punt returns

 

so, something between 40.50 and 90.99 kick return yards per kick returner

 

22.53 punt return yards per punt returner

 

punt returns ought to get between 2 (~40½/22½) and 4 (~91/22½) times as much credit

 

I'd say keep kick returns at the current 0.03 per yard and up the punt return yards to 0.10 per yard (like rushing and receiving).

*****

 

So raising the Punt yards to Rush/Rec rations - Remeber these are generally transient (changing roles) players, but a couple of PR stars are developed on some teams. This would elevate some players already on rosters.

 

Comments?

[Scatterjack 0]

Considering the size of our starting roster, I think it would be a good idea to increase IPR scores. It would make those WR4, WR5 players worth a little more valuable.

[whoisjgalt 0]

I'd say keep kick returns at the current 0.03 per yard and up the punt return yards to 0.10 per yard (like rushing and receiving).

:yes:

[Know Doubt 0]

Sounds great, considering the size of our starting lineups as wuz mentioned.

[FourTwoOh 0]

I'm in favor of uping the punt return points as mentioned.

[Hog Chow 0]

I'm down with this....

 

And no, I'm not a lemming.

[Pale Rider 0]

Does this unfairly give an advantage to those teams that have whether by chance or not have PR guys. Maybe some owners picked up WR as KR guys thinking they would get as much yards or points as PR types....just curious if this was pondered on or not!

[Longhorndd 0]

The only issue that I see with this is that a person that happens to have more punt returns already on their team has an advantage over the other teams.

 

One of the reasons for having rules and guidelines is to try to eliminate unfair advantages....are we creating one?

[Dan Sez 0]

It does add another level to your draft prep - checking out who is good punt returners in college and which teams need to improve their special teams play in the NFL.

 

Yes, a couple of players will shift higher in "Total Value" - there are some stellar returners, but they tend to be short lived - either promoted to main reciever status or get injured in the punt return duties.

 

I might mean the difference in someone spending an additional point or two on a specific player - which will free up other players from his roster for you to pickup on waivers.

 

maybe a stepped progression of points

 

last year 0.03

next year 0.05

next year 0.1

 

easing the scoring impact?

[whoisjgalt 0]

maybe a stepped progression of points

 

last year 0.03

next year 0.05

next year 0.1

 

easing the scoring impact?

I'm not a fan of this approach. Either 0.03 per punt return yard is the correct scoring rule or 0.10 per punt return yard is the correct scoring rule. The half-way (or actually 28% way) adjustment just isn't ideal IMO. Pick one and stick with it.

[whoisjgalt 0]

One of the reasons for having rules and guidelines is to try to eliminate unfair advantages....are we creating one?

It's doubtful IMO.

 

The average NFL team had just under 20½ punt return yards per game last season. Even if one player for each team got all those yards, that's only an incremental 1.43 points per game that this rule change would generate. It hardly moves a punt returner into a top tier kind of guy.

[Pale Rider 0]

One of the reasons for having rules and guidelines is to try to eliminate unfair advantages....are we creating one?

It's doubtful IMO.

 

The average NFL team had just under 20½ punt return yards per game last season. Even if one player for each team got all those yards, that's only an incremental 1.43 points per game that this rule change would generate. It hardly moves a punt returner into a top tier kind of guy.

I have lost two games by less than 1 point. Would having the return yards change those games outcome....this is a slippery slope. I don't changing the point system, no matter how little it is between players. It is different if you are doing something that is before the fact (scoring of D/ST or K) because we haven't picked those guys yet but to tweek the scoring even so slightly is something I am not in favor of since it effects everyones roster differently.

[whoisjgalt 0]

I have lost two games by less than 1 point. Would having the return yards change those games outcome....this is a slippery slope. I don't changing the point system, no matter how little it is between players. It is different if you are doing something that is before the fact (scoring of D/ST or K) because we haven't picked those guys yet but to tweek the scoring even so slightly is something I am not in favor of since it effects everyones roster differently.

One more thing to consider:

 

Everything resets with a new year. Yes we have keepers that but would 1.4 pts per game cause you to keep a punt returner over a starting RB or QB?

 

It makes more of a difference when we get into the draft. After the first several rounds, we're down to drafting pretty marginal starters and bye week filler. It's then that the punt return difference will come into play.

 

It's just my opinion, but tweaking this now won't in my judgement make much difference. It would if we were changing this mid-season.

[hellothere 1]

im fine with the modification to the rules, a few more PR yards are ok with me

[Pale Rider 0]

It's just my opinion, but tweaking this now won't in my judgement make much difference. It would if we were changing this mid-season.

I understand your point, I just don't want to change the system we have because the rules are already 20 pages long and if we start changing one scenario then that might lead to changing something else and eventually we would have an even more complex system that you would need to check the rule book out just to check your game score.

 

If I am the only one in the way of this...let it ride but I just am a little concern about messing with the point system.

[Dan Sez 0]

I wished I had better modeled the punts/returns issue to start with.

 

******

The points system is an intrigual part of the league. If anyone has a problem with tweaks, then it should not take place.

 

What I would like to empower the group with - in issues about scoring and roster size - everyone should have veto power.

 

If someone doesn't like an idea or a change, state so and stand your ground.

 

Some things can be collectively decided, like shifting the timeline of the Salary Retention - just as long as we do not get too close to the NFL Draft. That would cross one of the design features of mimicing NFL offseason activity.

 

Other issues that tinker with the core engine (rosters, points, Tie Break Order) should require total consensus to change.

 

Kinda arcane in division? Think about meat and bones versus skin and hair. What are the meat and bones issues, the things that makes this league what it is? What issues are more cosmetic and asthetic?

 

Going into year three, we should think about the long term on any change and which of the two does this change impact, the muscleor the skin. If it is structure, then we all need to be onboard.

 

******

For the long term survival of this league, we should prepare for the departure of any Officer or player. How would you guys carry on without me? If aliens abducted me and 5 years later dropped me back off on the street, hopefully I would find this place thriving and competitive.

 

If nothing else, this past year has show me that nothing last forever, nothing that is human, that breaths, laughs or cries. The only thing that stays, are the deeds and thoughts we leave behind. Ideas are one of the few things that live beyond the one who sparks them.

 

How would you carry on tomorrow, if I died today?

(Sorry for being so dark - 2004 has been the worst year of my life)

 

******

think about it

Here is to a great 2005

[Pale Rider 0]

I wished I had better modeled the punts/returns issue to start with.

 

******

The points system is an intrigual part of the league. If anyone has a problem with tweaks, then it should not take place.

 

What I would like to empower the group with - in issues about scoring and roster size - everyone should have veto power.

 

If someone doesn't like an idea or a change, state so and stand your ground.

 

Some things can be collectively decided, like shifting the timeline of the Salary Retention - just as long as we do not get too close to the NFL Draft. That would cross one of the design features of mimicing NFL offseason activity.

 

Other issues that tinker with the core engine (rosters, points, Tie Break Order) should require total consensus to change.

 

Kinda arcane in division? Think about meat and bones versus skin and hair. What are the meat and bones issues, the things that makes this league what it is? What issues are more cosmetic and asthetic?

 

Going into year three, we should think about the long term on any change and which of the two does this change impact, the muscleor the skin. If it is structure, then we all need to be onboard.

 

******

For the long term survival of this league, we should prepare for the departure of any Officer or player. How would you guys carry on without me? If aliens abducted me and 5 years later dropped me back off on the street, hopefully I would find this place thriving and competitive.

 

If nothing else, this past year has show me that nothing last forever, nothing that is human, that breaths, laughs or cries. The only thing that stays, are the deeds and thoughts we leave behind. Ideas are one of the few things that live beyond the one who sparks them.

 

How would you carry on tomorrow, if I died today?

(Sorry for being so dark - 2004 has been the worst year of my life)

 

******

think about it

Here is to a great 2005

With a league this complex, I think you have done an excellent job in setting the rules and guidelines. I prefer simple things but when you are dealing with so many different items, you have to dig deep and overall, this is an excellent league. I have heard nothing but kudos and you are a huge part of that!

 

2005 is going to be great...

 

The eagles lost the SB, what a great sign that this is going to be a wonderful year!

 

Stay strong!

[Dan Sez 0]

....

 

The eagles lost the SB, what a great sign that this is going to be a wonderful year! 

that is true, the iggles lost in 2005 - it could be a good sign.

 

Sorriest bunch of scum ever collected = iggles fans

 

worst than the Raider's Nation

worst than the farty whiner's faithless

worst than even the dried up deadskin clan

 

iggles suxor iggles suxor iggles suxor .. I needed 6 freaking points from two iggles players on an iggles team week 15 game and got squat - I hope they ALL burn in eternal torment and will someone PLEASE kick me in the balls if I ever draft another stinking iggle...

(toss that pile of crap Buckhalter on the flames too....)

[Pale Rider 0]

....

 

The eagles lost the SB, what a great sign that this is going to be a wonderful year! 

that is true, the iggles lost in 2005 - it could be a good sign.

 

Sorriest bunch of scum ever collected = iggles fans

 

worst than the Raider's Nation

worst than the farty whiner's faithless

worst than even the dried up deadskin clan

 

iggles suxor iggles suxor iggles suxor .. I needed 6 freaking points from two iggles players on an iggles team week 15 game and got squat - I hope they ALL burn in eternal torment and will someone PLEASE kick me in the balls if I ever draft another stinking iggle...

(toss that pile of crap Buckhalter on the flames too....)

That is what I like to see..don't hold back!

 

But I would hold off on the ball kicking, big time lose/lose on that option, getting an eagle and walking funny...not good!

[Blitzen 0]

I'm OK with the change if you want to implement it.

[Dan Sez 0]

No change for this season.

 

We will discuss it again next offseason.

 

Thanks for the comments