t.j 35 Posted November 18, 2003 eek! Nice work, Meanies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zap 0 Posted November 18, 2003 Eh. Smoke and mirrors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted November 18, 2003 William Green's suspension could be just what he needs to win this league. Travis Henry's injury doesn't hurt, either. Mine is the only other team in a commanding position to make the 4-team playoffs, and I've gone 3-8 head-to-head against the Machine this year. #2 RB should be his biggest weakness, with only McAllister as the top guy on his NFL team's depth chart, but Jackson is playing well to hide McGahee, Gordon, Murrell, and Thomas. Zap, we need to take more than -2 away for turnovers next season. What kind of league allows a guy to give the ball up 5 times and score 25 fantasy points? Culpooper single-handedly cost the Vikings a win this week, but was leading the fantasy charge in GOIDPANKAL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diesel07 0 Posted November 18, 2003 I think i might have set a league record for points this week :confused: Its great when your QB can have 5 TO's and still put up good numbers. He did have 396 yards passing, 2 TD's, 42 yards running, and a 2-point conversion, so why is 25 points a shocker ??? How can you say Duece is the only guy i have? I got Hines, Moss, and DC too. My defense plays a significant part in some of my victories....and losses Barnett was a huge waiver reward i found early in the season. I was going to pick him up in the draft, but decided not to Just think...i drafted P-Dubb and picked up Steve Smith in week 2...where are they now? Happily racking up yards for other owners Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted November 18, 2003 Diesel07:so why is 25 points a shocker ??? Because he turned it over 5 times! Thanks for asking. How can you say Duece is the only guy i have? I got Hines, Moss, and DC too.Because I was talking about RBs, not WRs or QBs. Just think...i drafted P-Dubb and picked up Steve Smith in week 2...where are they now? Happily racking up yards for other owners The hardest part of fantasy football, I think, is deciding who to keep and who to give up on when that roster starts looking like it needs changes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diesel07 0 Posted November 18, 2003 I think you just see the one side of DC's performance, the turnovers. Look at what he did offensively and you'll see why he deserved the 25 points! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted November 19, 2003 Diesel07: I think you just see the one side of DC's performance, the turnovers. Look at what he did offensively and you'll see why he deserved the 25 points! Look dude. I was at the game. Everything he did well was negated by the turnovers. Drive 60 yards down the field... turn the ball over. Score a touchdown... turn it over the next two drives. He cost Minnesota the game all by himself. He was fortunate that the RBs had no rushing TDs, it's a miracle he got two TDs that game because on every other possession that they had a chance to score, he blew it. The only reason he got the two-point conversion was because they were behind thanks to him. He played terribly... as one would expect to be the case from any guy who has 5 turnovers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zap 0 Posted November 19, 2003 t.j: Zap, we need to take more than -2 away for turnovers next season. What kind of league allows a guy to give the ball up 5 times and score 25 fantasy points? If turnovers were charged -3 instead of -2 then Culpepper scores 20 pts w/ five turnovers? Is that a significant adjustment? He kicked but fantasy-wise even w/the turnovers, no? Here's my thinking. It isn't monolithic, but I'd need some pursuading to change. I'd guess, through observation (I've been watching for this specifically this season because of this issue), that 33-40% of turnovers are "the fault" of the person generating the negative stat. In the case of interceptions that % is probably a little higher, maybe 50. In the case of fumbles that percentage is probably lower, maybe 20. I guess I should take notes for the remaining weeks, so I'm not guessing, but have some hard stats. I'll rate turnovers as-- fault, no fault, and hard to say. An interesting Sunday project I'll happily assume. In the case of fumbles, I think we can all agree on two things. Certain players are fumble prone, BUT most fumbles are forced by a hard hit, a strip, or other positive defensive play. With IDPs we are rewarding the interceptor 4, the fumble forcer 3, the fumble recoverer 3, the fumbler -2, and the interception thrower -2. In this system every pick "generates" 6 points one way or the other. That makes an interception as valuable as a td in overall scoring, although split two ways. Fumbles forced and recovered by the defense likewise generate 8 points, two more than a td, split three ways (usually). Do you see where I'm going with this? IDPs make up for the big negs in a fair way. There's a debate argued well by both sides that "because many turnovers are not the negative stat generator's fault" it's unfair to have any negative points. Were both Daunte's fumbles his fault? I recall one being a great play by the Raider pass rusher and unavoidable by Culpepper. I know one of Carter's three picks was a great pass that the receiver choked on. It's not very fair to Carter or his fantasy owner to knock him points because Glenn screwed up. I could go on but will await a non-insult-filled-w/o-rollin'- eyes rebuttal. wink Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zap 0 Posted November 19, 2003 Diesel07: I think i might have set a league record for points this week :confused: Its great when your QB can have 5 TO's and still put up good numbers. SONM's Crankshaft Grinders went over 175 in week one. Right about Daunte. Typically, a qb with five turnovers has a crappy performance to boot. He put up the biggest numbers of the week, both positive and negative and his modest 25 speaks to that performance. Plummer's more conservative output bested him because of the turnovers. Seems fair enough to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diesel07 0 Posted November 19, 2003 t.j:Look dude. I was at the game. Everything he did well was negated by the turnovers. Drive 60 yards down the field... turn the ball over. Score a touchdown... turn it over the next two drives. He cost Minnesota the game all by himself. He was fortunate that the RBs had no rushing TDs, it's a miracle he got two TDs that game because on every other possession that they had a chance to score, he blew it. The only reason he got the two-point conversion was because they were behind thanks to him. He played terribly... as one would expect to be the case from any guy who has 5 turnovers. Oh, focking cry me a river why dont you? Every week you whine about something. Get over the fact that my QB outscored your with 5 TO's! Zap, i look at the int and fumbles the same way you do. Sometimes a QB will throw a ball right on target and the WR will bobble it or have it defelected off his body. You call that the QB's fault? I don't! Prepare for a Serious ass whooping this week Sharkbait! wink Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted November 19, 2003 Zap:If turnovers were charged -3 instead of -2 then Culpepper scores 20 pts w/ five turnovers? Is that a significant adjustment? He kicked but fantasy-wise even w/the turnovers, no? Obviously, MeanMachine would have won this game under any scoring system. wink My concern is a general one, not one specific to this game. Here's my thinking. It isn't monolithic, but I'd need some pursuading to change. Ok: The concept of guessing credit or blame for a play in fantasy football is asinine, especially when it is applied only to the bad plays (i.e. turnovers) and not to the good plays (i.e. TDs). Your way of thinking is just as easily applied the other way around. Did the RB score the touchdown because he is so damn good, or did he score it because his offensive line devastated the defense? Was Leon to credit for the score or do his teammates deserve some props? Did Trent Green get a TD pass because he is the best thing since Joe Montana? Or did he get it because Priest Holmes broke 3 tackles after catching a screen pass? If you're going to draft a RB/QB because his offensive line is great, and take credit for all his yards and points, you have to accept the risk if you draft a guy whose teammates are prone to let him down (i.e. a QB whose receivers love to run the tip drill), and accept that maybe the WR wouldn't have tipped it up to the defense if he hadn't thrown it high and hard in the first place? Typically, a player deserves much more blame for a turnover than he does credit for a touchdown, as a touchdown generally takes the whole team, and a turnover is usually the fault of just 1 or 2 guys on offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted November 19, 2003 Diesel07:Oh, focking cry me a river why dont you? Every week you whine about something. Get over the fact that my QB outscored your with 5 TO's! If you feel my comments are just whining rather than points to be discussed, then feel free not to reply to them every single time like you've been doing. wink Contrary to your sophomoric suggestion that I'm mad that Daunte outscored McNair this week ( ) I've been a proponent of penalizing turnovers heaving since I started playing FF almost a decade ago. It was I that convinced Zap to add negatives for turnovers shortly before the draft. In the original league I created, turnovers were -3 and touchdowns were 3. No need for you to take it personally, kid. Every football coach in the world knows that turnovers decide games. I don't know why fantasy football players don't understand that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diesel07 0 Posted November 19, 2003 How about i feel free TO reply! Last week, you made it a point to argue with me over someting so childish. This week you get upset that a Qb has 5 TO's and still wins. Im with you on the TO situation and do feel its a big part of the game, but i see a lot of leagues using -2 points for TO's. If you want TO's to be -3, take Zaps offer on the Commish position he offered a couple weeks ago. Im sure he'd be willing to give it to you. Maybe your not whining, but just coming across that way Bring yo jock strap next week SON you'll need it. Out of 9 of the 11 games played, ive had over 100 points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted November 20, 2003 Diesel07:This week you get upset that a Qb has 5 TO's and still wins. ... Maybe your not whining, but just coming across that way That's because you make assumptions about what I am saying that are false. I'm not upset that you won, I'm merely flabbergasted that Culpepper scored 25 points after I watched that game live and he played one of the worst games I've seen a QB play this season (which is saying a lot since I've seen every Raider game). Note the key there once again, I paid special attention to this performance because I was at the game, not because he plays for the cocky MeanMachine! Get over yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teddyt 0 Posted November 20, 2003 Diesel and tj...I love you guys! Your constant back and forth keeps me coming back to this board day in and day out Classic! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diesel07 0 Posted November 20, 2003 dont worry bro, ill make sure with the win over you this week, i get over myself wink TEDDY!!!!!!! If you want to understand this bickering between T.J and i, think of me as meshawn, yelling at my coach in his face, getting what i want, not having to go to practices, etc... and T.J as Gruden who takes my abuse day in and day out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted November 20, 2003 Diesel07:TEDDY!!!!!!! If you want to understand this bickering between T.J and i, think of me as meshawn, yelling at my coach in his face, getting what i want, not having to go to practices, etc... and T.J as Gruden who takes my abuse day in and day out And like Keyshawn, you're gonna be deactivated this week!@# Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diesel07 0 Posted November 20, 2003 I knew u would respond with that, but in general Keyshawn made Gruden look like his Beyotch! You see the relation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted November 20, 2003 Puh-leeze! Keyshawn never made Gruden look like his bitch. Keyshawn is like a fly buzzing in Gruden's ear, begging for validation from Gruden. So yes, I do see the relation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diesel07 0 Posted November 20, 2003 WOW! If Gruden is not a beyotch, than i don't know what you call a guy who lets a "teenie-weenie" fly get all in his grill-piece, literally, and bark orders at him. If you ask me, thats one bad-ass-mofo-fly wink Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
