Fantasy Football Sites Being Shut down?

[football_scooter 0]

"historical data' would probably be ok...but I have no idea how long something has to be in public hands before it's considered 'historical'.  Maybe it's only a few weeks...by all means, play in a league where your stats go live 3 weeks after the game's been played. I prefer live scoring. 

Then if you have no idea what the term "historical" means why do you attempt to insult my intelligence? You pull 3 weeks out of your a$$ and allege that I would play under those conditions. Another poster said he thought definition was 15 minutes but could not provide a link.

 

Think you quit calling people douches because you realized you are one.

 

And a big PS pal. If you don't see the obvious disconnect between Napster and FF stats, you are truly one of the dumbest people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting in any format.

1. I insulted you in no way, shape or form. I offered what I know. Granted, it's limited as I am no lawyer, but I already prefaced my statements with that.

 

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S. Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL. They then sell it to CBS, ESPN, and other such sites. The stats are indeed considered intellectual property. It's the same with fantasy baseball - Stats, Inc buys the stats from MLB and distributes them. At least that's how it's been for years...if something changed recent;y, I am unaware.

 

3. the intellectual property right extends not only to stats, but also to team and player names. That is why EA Sports is now the ONLY series of video games that has ANY player or team names, and Midway got screwed and had to use fake info for Blitz the League.

 

4. I said straight up that I have no idea what constitutes historical stats. I imagine that to become public domain, it might even be like the music industry - and that's 20 years or so. I was not pulling numbers out of my arse to belittle you in any way, captain paranoia - I was just giving an example. Lighten up for christ's sake. You're gonna give yourself an emballism.

 

Thanks for heaping insults on me for attempting to engage you in thoughtful dialogue. It's a mistake I will be sure to avoid in the future.

[13lo0d 0]

They don't own the stats! Don't worry       

it will be like the music industry trying to regulate the illegal burning of music...not going to happen.

 

We'll see about that when the next format after CD comes out.

won't happen

Sorry, but you better think again. Videogame companies have essentially stamped out illegal pirate copies of videogames with advanced anti-piracy measures in their disks for the latest generation of systems. This used to be a millions of dollars black market business. This is a situation where the companies have beaten the hackers.

 

There will be a time when the only music you'll be able to get for free is The Beatles and Eminem, no new stuff.

Seems that everytime a new technology comes out to prevent individuals from burning or ripping CDs it alwasy fails. It is just a matter of time before someone figures out how to get around it.

 

When there is a will, there is a way. Do not even forget that.

Well, we'll see. What you say has definitely been the case for years, but's it's certainly not anymore. It hasn't been for several years. It seems like the videogame companies are really getting serious now and things have shifted. It has been several years now and people have not cracked these disks. It's true that anything can change, and we'll have to see what happens in a few years, but by the same token it's possible that things can change and now the hackers will perpetually be locked out of these disks, unlike how it was before. The pirates do not have the moral upper ground on this one.

 

Ugh, sorry, I won't hijack this thread anymore.

Ok, I have an xbox and I have at least 30 "hacked" games on my hard drive. It's easy to hack those disk. Actually, you don't even have to hack the disk, you hack the console. There's a chip you can buy for around $30, solder it into your xbox/play station and drop in a bigger hard drive and you can play games that have been burned or saved to your hard drive. Takes about an hour to add the chip to the xbox and about 5 minutes to burn a game. The xbox/ps2 consoles look for a code at the beginning of a disk when you put it in. When the screen comes up that says PS or Xbox, the console is checking for that code. By adding the chip to the console it skips this process and bam...you're playing hacked content. It sure beats paying $60 for a new game.

[Theyhateme459 0]

People PLEASE REMEMBER...that these are peoples opinions... no one knows what is exactly what, thats why we speculate. If this situation was all factual, then their will be no need to debate this in court. No one knows the outcome, but we can say why we think it's going to be that way. So one person is not WRONG if they think it will be ruled that stats are the property of the NFLPA.

[Ron_Mexico 0]

The bottom line. If you are making money off the NFL, they want their percentage cut.

 

They also have the right NOT to grant you a license and control the material for themselves.

 

This includes....

 

Jerseys & T-Shirts

Films (DVD, VHS, TIVO)

Books

Video & Computer games

NFL logos

Retired uniforms & retired logos

Sport memorabilia

Sports autographs

Photos of games and players and stadiums

 

and yes finally...........fantasy football

 

Sports is a business, not a free game. Sports is a billions dollar business, they are only protecting their business rights.

 

Remember baseball didn't allow radio broadcasting for the first 15 years because they thought radio would take away money at the gate. The NFL blacks out local TV of games (this been upheld in court several times).

 

If you are playing fantasy football for fun and not for profit, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

But if you have an internet fantasy football site making $100 a pop for each team and you have 10,000 teams playing, thats a gross of 1 million dollars. You making money from the NFL. They are going to come after you. Beacuse they come after the small T-Shirt vendor selling un-license logo t-shirts.

 

If you invent the greatest NFL computer game of all time, you are going to also need a license from the NFL if you sell the game for profit. Unless the game has no NFL logos or NFL players or NFL stadiums.

 

This is a serious business. The NFL has a $16 billion dollar, 6 year, TV rights contract with ESPN, ABC, CBS and FOX.

 

Why do you think there is only one professional football league. Like the mafia they eliminated all the competition.

This is about STATISTICS.

 

These Stats are public domain.

This is why the NFL will lose in the end.

[Theyhateme459 0]

The bottom line. If you are making money off the NFL, they want their percentage cut.

 

They also have the right NOT to grant you a license and control the material for themselves.

 

This includes....

 

Jerseys & T-Shirts

Films (DVD, VHS, TIVO)

Books

Video & Computer games

NFL logos

Retired uniforms & retired logos

Sport memorabilia

Sports autographs

Photos of games and players and stadiums

 

and yes finally...........fantasy football

 

Sports is a business, not a free game. Sports is a billions dollar business, they are only protecting their business rights.

 

Remember baseball didn't allow radio broadcasting for the first 15 years because they thought radio would take away money at the gate. The NFL blacks out local TV of games (this been upheld in court several times).

 

If you are playing fantasy football for fun and not for profit, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

But if you have an internet fantasy football site making $100 a pop for each team and you have 10,000 teams playing, thats a gross of 1 million dollars. You making money from the NFL. They are going to come after you. Beacuse they come after the small T-Shirt vendor selling un-license logo t-shirts.

 

If you invent the greatest NFL computer game of all time, you are going to also need a license from the NFL if you sell the game for profit. Unless the game has no NFL logos or NFL players or NFL stadiums.

 

This is a serious business. The NFL has a $16 billion dollar, 6 year, TV rights contract with ESPN, ABC, CBS and FOX.

 

Why do you think there is only one professional football league. Like the mafia they eliminated all the competition.

This is about STATISTICS.

 

These Stats are public domain.

This is why the NFL will lose in the end.

But fantasy Football Profits from The PLayers Statistics.... That is the NFLPA argument.

[Guest Moose Knuckle Ball Four]

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S. Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL.

untrue

 

hth

[Duff Bulgaria 0]

The bottom line. If you are making money off the NFL, they want their percentage cut.

 

They also have the right NOT to grant you a license and control the material for themselves.

 

This includes....

 

Jerseys & T-Shirts

Films (DVD, VHS, TIVO)

Books

Video & Computer games

NFL logos

Retired uniforms & retired logos

Sport memorabilia

Sports autographs

Photos of games and players and stadiums

 

and yes finally...........fantasy football

 

Sports is a business, not a free game. Sports is a billions dollar business, they are only protecting their business rights.

 

Remember baseball didn't allow radio broadcasting for the first 15 years because they thought radio would take away money at the gate. The NFL blacks out local TV of games (this been upheld in court several times).

 

If you are playing fantasy football for fun and not for profit, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

But if you have an internet fantasy football site making $100 a pop for each team and you have 10,000 teams playing, thats a gross of 1 million dollars. You making money from the NFL. They are going to come after you. Beacuse they come after the small T-Shirt vendor selling un-license logo t-shirts.

 

If you invent the greatest NFL computer game of all time, you are going to also need a license from the NFL if you sell the game for profit. Unless the game has no NFL logos or NFL players or NFL stadiums.

 

This is a serious business. The NFL has a $16 billion dollar, 6 year, TV rights contract with ESPN, ABC, CBS and FOX.

 

Why do you think there is only one professional football league. Like the mafia they eliminated all the competition.

This is about STATISTICS.

 

These Stats are public domain.

This is why the NFL will lose in the end.

But fantasy Football Profits from The PLayers Statistics.... That is the NFLPA argument.

No..... Fantasy Football sites profit by using the player's names. That is their argument.

 

As I said before, the NFL is not arguing over the rights of the stats, they are public domain. The names are not public property. You can't just go out and put Favre on a jersey and sell it without permission from the NFL.

[Duff Bulgaria 0]

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S.  Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL.

untrue

 

hth

97% untrue

 

 

HTH.

[scooter1225 0]

Thunderbolt talks of intellectual property rights. in his/her explanation of those rights, there was no metion of a name. Last time I checked Ray Lewis was not paid just bacuse of his name, nor was it copywrited. Names of people, that are not directly linked to the product, i.e. Kenny Roger's Roasters, Ditka's, Wolfgang Pucks are not covered under intellectual property rights. And in the true essence of the law than the parents of the players should then be paid, they were the onles who offically formed, named and cultivated the "product". In that case all high school football and college coaches can claim sweat equity of said product.

 

Nevermind the fact that we as tax payers have been raped for years by the NFL and the team owners. WE finance new stadiums and in the case of the Saints and many other teams, the tax payers subsidize the profit loosing teams.

 

I am calling out to all fantasy owners to write your home town/favorite team and the NFLPA and let them know, as a consumer of their "products" feel. It's all in good to vent , but not if the decision makers aren't listening.

[Theyhateme459 0]

Ok - there is alot of disinformation on this thread - let me try to clarify as much as I can.

 

NFLPA has already sent Cease and Desists out to people.

 

For the most part they do this everyyear but nothing happens. The big guys - Yahoo, Sportsline, ESPN etc pay a few hundred thousand each year for a license and why rock the boat by suing smaller companies. The licensed companies actually do gain benefit as they can use players images as endorsements - use player images in there products etc.

 

Anyhow now - after the 2005 season all licenses expire. The NFLPA will likely begin to sue everyone and try to do what the sports card industry had happen.

 

That is license very few companies at huge dollars. Perhaps even sell exclusives in different categories - High Stakes, Salary Cap etc.

 

Content sites like this and Rotoworld, KFFL, etc are fine since they would be protected by free speech.

 

What this means to everyone else - higher licensing fees means higher league costs...and your favorite league manager could be shut down. Market and competitive pressure won't suppress league fees.

 

Is $200-$300 dollars a league out of the question? Probably not.

 

On the flip side - Stats have always been made to be in the public domain and therefore are unlicensable. Somebody mention Motorola - which is the biggest case to date on why the NFLPA likely won't win a court case.

 

Whats the difference between a newspaper printing out stats for the hometown team and a league manager product giving you a customized stat solution?

 

No one knows what will happen - perhaps MLBAM case will ultimately prove one way or the other - who knows.

 

There will also be fantasy football - it just may cost more and you will have fewer options....

 

This should be an interesting conference coming up...

 

http://www.sportsbusinessconferences.com/s...ference&conid=6

Do we have any sports writers or reporters who will be attending this conference??

I would go if it was in Atlanta and didn't cost $1500

[Duff Bulgaria 0]

Thunderbolt talks of intellectual property rights. in his/her explanation of those rights, there was no metion of a name. Last time I checked Ray Lewis was not paid just bacuse of his name, nor was it copywrited. Names of people, that are not directly linked to the product, i.e. Kenny Roger's Roasters, Ditka's, Wolfgang Pucks are not covered under intellectual property rights. And in the true essence of the law than the parents of the players should then be paid, they were the onles who offically formed, named and cultivated the "product". In that case all high school football and college coaches can claim sweat equity of said product.

By joining the NFLPA, the Player agrees to the give rights of their name to the NFL. The NFL gives the player the right to play professional football under the NFL sanction and in turn the NFL gets rights to make money from their name in the form of merchandising. Why do the players agree to this? Simple. Money. When they sign the agreement, they are signing a lofty salary. A salary which is not possible without the NFL.

 

 

The NFL is a for-profit business. NFL merchandising is just one way they make money. Now, at our expense, they want a piece of the fantasy football products. IMO it will not happen.

[Theyhateme459 0]

I'll be at the conference...should be interesting...

Please give an Report or recap on what was discuss reguarding this, and other topics of interest

 

 

The plethora of information on this site is

[football_scooter 0]

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S.  Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL.

untrue

 

hth

97% untrue

 

 

HTH.

Hey Moose - since you think you know better, then how about taking the time to explain it instead of just being a douche?

 

Obviosuly there is some truth to it.

 

ESPN had a message on their league pages 3 years ago that said they were in the process of getting licensed live stat feeds from Stats Inc, their new providor, which should correct all the scoring errors they'd been having.

 

If Stats, Inc didn't buy the rights to that from the NFL, then how can they represent them, use players names and use team names?

 

Sometimes it's better to just say you don't know, like I did. Otherwise you sound like an ass.

[Guest Moose Knuckle Ball Four]

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S.  Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL.

untrue

 

hth

97% untrue

 

 

HTH.

Hey Moose - since you think you know better, then how about taking the time to explain it instead of just being a douche?

 

Obviosuly there is some truth to it.

 

ESPN had a message on their league pages 3 years ago that said they were in the process of getting licensed live stat feeds from Stats Inc, their new providor, which should correct all the scoring errors they'd been having.

 

If Stats, Inc didn't buy the rights to that from the NFL, then how can they represent them, use players names and use team names?

 

Sometimes it's better to just say you don't know, like I did. Otherwise you sound like an ass.

stats inc does not pay the nfl for stats

 

is that clear enough for you?

 

hth

[football_scooter 0]

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S.  Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL.

untrue

 

hth

97% untrue

 

 

HTH.

Hey Moose - since you think you know better, then how about taking the time to explain it instead of just being a douche?

 

Obviosuly there is some truth to it.

 

ESPN had a message on their league pages 3 years ago that said they were in the process of getting licensed live stat feeds from Stats Inc, their new providor, which should correct all the scoring errors they'd been having.

 

If Stats, Inc didn't buy the rights to that from the NFL, then how can they represent them, use players names and use team names?

 

Sometimes it's better to just say you don't know, like I did. Otherwise you sound like an ass.

stats inc does not pay the nfl for stats

 

is that clear enough for you?

 

hth

No, you still sound like an ass.

 

And you've contributed nothing more than that to this topic. Sad.

 

Otherwise maybe you'd be able to explain rather than stating it as matter of fact. I doubt you have a clue, so how about you stop trolling and go post some regurgitated news or something.

[Guest Moose Knuckle Ball Four]

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S.  Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL.

untrue

 

hth

97% untrue

 

 

HTH.

Hey Moose - since you think you know better, then how about taking the time to explain it instead of just being a douche?

 

Obviosuly there is some truth to it.

 

ESPN had a message on their league pages 3 years ago that said they were in the process of getting licensed live stat feeds from Stats Inc, their new providor, which should correct all the scoring errors they'd been having.

 

If Stats, Inc didn't buy the rights to that from the NFL, then how can they represent them, use players names and use team names?

 

Sometimes it's better to just say you don't know, like I did. Otherwise you sound like an ass.

stats inc does not pay the nfl for stats

 

is that clear enough for you?

 

hth

No, you still sound like an ass.

 

And you've contributed nothing more than that to this topic. Sad.

 

Otherwise maybe you'd be able to explain rather than stating it as matter of fact. I doubt you have a clue, so how about you stop trolling and go post some regurgitated news or something.

I do not know how simple you want me to put it.

 

STATS INC. = does not buy stats from NFL

 

hth

[football_scooter 0]

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S.  Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL.

untrue

 

hth

97% untrue

 

 

HTH.

Hey Moose - since you think you know better, then how about taking the time to explain it instead of just being a douche?

 

Obviosuly there is some truth to it.

 

ESPN had a message on their league pages 3 years ago that said they were in the process of getting licensed live stat feeds from Stats Inc, their new providor, which should correct all the scoring errors they'd been having.

 

If Stats, Inc didn't buy the rights to that from the NFL, then how can they represent them, use players names and use team names?

 

Sometimes it's better to just say you don't know, like I did. Otherwise you sound like an ass.

stats inc does not pay the nfl for stats

 

is that clear enough for you?

 

hth

No, you still sound like an ass.

 

And you've contributed nothing more than that to this topic. Sad.

 

Otherwise maybe you'd be able to explain rather than stating it as matter of fact. I doubt you have a clue, so how about you stop trolling and go post some regurgitated news or something.

I do not know how simple you want me to put it.

 

STATS INC. = does not buy stats from NFL

 

hth

Really? So how do they get them?

 

And why does Yahoo, ESPN and CBS all use Stats Inc as "the official stats providor of the NFL"?

 

Do tell....

[Guest Moose Knuckle Ball Four]

2. I am not making this up, nor am I F.O.S.  Stats, Inc buys the stat feed from the NFL.

untrue

 

hth

97% untrue

 

 

HTH.

Hey Moose - since you think you know better, then how about taking the time to explain it instead of just being a douche?

 

Obviosuly there is some truth to it.

 

ESPN had a message on their league pages 3 years ago that said they were in the process of getting licensed live stat feeds from Stats Inc, their new providor, which should correct all the scoring errors they'd been having.

 

If Stats, Inc didn't buy the rights to that from the NFL, then how can they represent them, use players names and use team names?

 

Sometimes it's better to just say you don't know, like I did. Otherwise you sound like an ass.

stats inc does not pay the nfl for stats

 

is that clear enough for you?

 

hth

No, you still sound like an ass.

 

And you've contributed nothing more than that to this topic. Sad.

 

Otherwise maybe you'd be able to explain rather than stating it as matter of fact. I doubt you have a clue, so how about you stop trolling and go post some regurgitated news or something.

I do not know how simple you want me to put it.

 

STATS INC. = does not buy stats from NFL

 

hth

Really? So how do they get them?

 

And why does Yahoo, ESPN and CBS all use Stats Inc as "the official stats providor of the NFL"?

 

Do tell....

The Business of STATS

As a glance at any newspaper will prove, there is a tremendous public thirst for knowledge about sports. STATS is in the business of collecting and providing sports fans and media organizations with analysis and information about the sports, teams, and players they follow. The following are some of STATS's current business activities:

 

a. STATS publishes 11 annual books on the major sports, some of which are best-sellers in their field. These books include the Major League Handbook and The Scouting Notebook for major league baseball, the Pro Football Handbook and Pro Football Revealed for NFL football, and the Pro Basketball Handbook for NBA basketball. These books contain detailed analysis of statistics on teams and players as well as articles discussing performance and trends for the upcoming season.

 

b. STATS provides detailed factual information (including real- time scores and statistics) and analysis of sports statistics to many of the most important sports news organizations, including Turner Sports, NBC Sports, the Associated Press, ESPN and Fox Sports. These organizations in turn use STATS' information and analysis in on-air broadcasts to the public.

 

c. STATS provides its STATS On-Line Service to sports fans who want detailed statistics and current statistical news on professional teams. In addition, we provide a similar service for professionals in the sports industry called STATS Pro-Line. We also provide real-time scores and statistics on major league baseball and NBA basketball games to SportsTrax, a paging device developed by Motorola, Inc.

 

d. STATS is a content provider to the America Online ("AOL") on-line service. We currently provide analysis and statistical information on NBA basketball, major league baseball, NFL football, and NHL hockey to a site on AOL. We also provide score and statistics updates for games in progress for all major sports on the STATS Scoreboard, which is a "location" within the STATS AOL site. AOL recently issued an award to STATS' Scoreboard as the best application of technology by an AOL content provider and "Member's Choice" award as one of the top sites on AOL.

 

The "raw material" for STATS' analyses are sports statistics -- the at-bats, shooting percentages, times sacked, goals scored type of figures familiar to every sports fan who reads the box scores. STATS regularly accesses and uses the body of sports statistics which are compiled by the major sports leagues or their outside "official statisticians." STATS also compiles its own body of statistical information through STATS reporters who attend games or who observe public sources such as television and radio broadcasts. Both current and historical sports statistics have been a traditional feature of sports reporting and analysis for decades and have uniformly been considered to be within the public domain. Without free access to this data, companies such as STATS could not provide sports fans with the creative analyses they desire.

 

Current United States copyright law protects the public's right to access and use sports statistics and other purely factual information, even when contained within an otherwise copyrightable work. Many recent court decisions have held that this information is and should remain in the public domain. STATS' business is dependent on continued free access to that information. Indeed, STATS is currently engaged in litigation with the National Basketball Association in order to defend the principle that once made public, sports statistics (including those revealed within broadcasts of sports games) are in the public domain and may be redisseminated at any time without permission of the sports leagues.

[football_scooter 0]

thank you - now I've learned something from it. Much appreciated.

 

Any reason why you couldn't simply post that first instead of being a jerk about it?

[football_scooter 0]

Current United States copyright law protects the public's right to access and use sports statistics and other purely factual information, even when contained within an otherwise copyrightable work. Many recent court decisions have held that this information is and should remain in the public domain. STATS' business is dependent on continued free access to that information. Indeed, STATS is currently engaged in litigation with the National Basketball Association in order to defend the principle that once made public, sports statistics (including those revealed within broadcasts of sports games) are in the public domain and may be redisseminated at any time without permission of the sports leagues.

 

this is the part that I suspect will be the biggest issue - and the fact that player's names are suppossedly the property of NFLPA - kinda hard to provide stats if you can't use a player's name.

 

Should be interesting to see how this pans out, but as I said previously, the NFL isn't dumb. They're likely to sell the license to use team/player names to Stats, Inc or whatever other provider and it could result in an increase to FFB costs, but not by much.

 

Unless they decide that they want a monopoly on fantasy sports, in which case they'll start their own service (Sportsline? Aren't they NFL?) and sue everyone else.

 

I'm guessing it's the former.

[Angus 0]

this is the part that I suspect will be the biggest issue - and the fact that player's names are suppossedly the property of NFLPA - kinda hard to provide stats if you can't use a player's name.

Nonsense...

 

Even the greatest game of all time (Super Tecmo Bowl) did it...You just cant stop QB Eagles!!! Of course it was wierd watching QB Eagles throw TDs to Moss in the late 90s.

[football_scooter 0]

this is the part that I suspect will be the biggest issue - and the fact that player's names are suppossedly the property of NFLPA - kinda hard to provide stats if you can't use a player's name.

Nonsense...

 

Even the greatest game of all time (Super Tecmo Bowl) did it...You just cant stop QB Eagles!!! Of course it was wierd watching QB Eagles throw TDs to Moss in the late 90s.

I respectfully disagree - while that game ruled, check current affairs.

 

EA Sports has exclusive rights to NFLPA intellectual property.

 

That is why Midway needed to use all ficticious player/team names for Blitz the League.

 

This was a big deal last year - I'm sure a google search would produce a detailed account of it...

[Theyhateme459 0]

this is the part that I suspect will be the biggest issue - and the fact that player's names are suppossedly the property of NFLPA - kinda hard to provide stats if you can't use a player's name.

Nonsense...

 

Even the greatest game of all time (Super Tecmo Bowl) did it...You just cant stop QB Eagles!!! Of course it was wierd watching QB Eagles throw TDs to Moss in the late 90s.

I respectfully disagree - while that game ruled, check current affairs.

 

EA Sports has exclusive rights to NFLPA intellectual property.

 

That is why Midway needed to use all ficticious player/team names for Blitz the League.

 

This was a big deal last year - I'm sure a google search would produce a detailed account of it...

Thats Basically the whole story... EA got exclusive rights, So Midway, then NFL2k Series, or ESPN Football could not use NFL Player NAmes, which made Madden 06 The only football game this year with NFL player names.

 

Since Midway "The Makers of Blitz" could not use the Player Names, they could do whatever they wanted with their football game... this is why there is violence, drugs, and all that other stuff in that game..with players named Ron Mexico QB... But his info on this topic.

 

http://www.info.ea.com/news/pr/pr569.pdf

 

EA ENTERS INTO EXCLUSIVE AGREEMENTS WITH NFL AND PLAYERS INC

TO EXPAND AND INTEGRATE CUSTOMER ENTERTAINMENT EXPERIENCE

REDWOOD CITY, Calif., December 13, 2004 – Electronic Arts (NASDAQ: ERTS) today announced exclusive licensing relationships with the National Football League and PLAYERS INC to develop, publish and distribute interactive football games. These five-year agreements – which EA negotiated separately – give EA the exclusive rights to the NFL teams, stadiums and players for use in its football videogames. Both agreements also include exclusive rights for console online features. Financial terms of the agreements were not disclosed.

For the first time, all aspects of the interactive experience – including console-based fantasy football features and handheld game devices -- will be fully integrated with one EA game. This also provides the opportunity for new games and for EA to access both NFL Films and the NFL Network for use in the games.

“We are pleased to expand our agreement with Electronic Arts, the leading video game manufacturer and a valued NFL partner,” said NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue. “We look forward to working with EA to continue to enhance the quality of NFL video games that our fans have enjoyed for many years.”

“For more than a decade, EA has produced the most authentic football product for fans of the game” said PLAYERS INC Chairman Gene Upshaw. “This exclusive relationship will maximize the value of NFL players through EA’s continued commitment to bring fans closer to the game.”

“We are excited about the opportunity to further enhance our relationship with the NFL and PLAYERS INC.” said Larry Probst, Chairman and CEO of Electronic Arts. “The five-year agreements will usher NFL fans through the console technology transition with new ideas and innovative game play experiences.”

Both agreements are exclusive for action simulation, arcade-style and manager games on the PC, handheld game devices and consoles – including console online features. The agreements do not include exclusive rights to other types of games or games accessible from the Internet or wireless devices, including cellular phones.

Madden NFL Football from the EA SPORTS™ brand has sold more than 42 million copies over the franchise’s 15 year history. Madden NFL 2005, the most complete football game ever, is available for the PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system, Xbox® videogame system from Microsoft, Nintendo GameCube™, Game Boy® Advance, the PlayStation® console and PC. NFL STREET 2 for the PlayStation 2 console, Xbox system and Nintendo GameCube will be on store shelves by December 26, 2004. Both games were developed by EA Tiburon, and rated “E” (Everyone) by the ESRB. The games official websites are www.madden2005.com and www.nflstreet2.com.

About Electronic Arts

Electronic Arts Inc. (EA), headquartered in Redwood City, California, is the world’s leading interactive entertainment software company. Founded in 1982, EA posted revenues of $2.96 billion for fiscal 2004. The company develops, publishes, and distributes interactive software worldwide for video game systems, personal computers and the Internet. In 2003, EA had 27 titles that sold more than one million copies. Electronic Arts markets its products under three brand names: EA SPORTS™, EA GAMES™ and EA SPORTS BIG™. EA’s homepage and

[Black Ice 0]

Thunderbolt talks of intellectual property rights.  in his/her explanation of those rights, there was no metion of a name.  Last time I checked Ray Lewis was not paid just bacuse of his name, nor was it copywrited.  Names of people, that are not directly linked to the product, i.e. Kenny Roger's Roasters, Ditka's, Wolfgang Pucks are not covered under intellectual property rights.  And in the true essence of the law than the parents of the players should then be paid, they were the onles who offically formed, named and cultivated the "product".  In that case all high school football and college coaches can claim sweat equity of said product.

By joining the NFLPA, the Player agrees to the give rights of their name to the NFL. The NFL gives the player the right to play professional football under the NFL sanction and in turn the NFL gets rights to make money from their name in the form of merchandising. Why do the players agree to this? Simple. Money. When they sign the agreement, they are signing a lofty salary. A salary which is not possible without the NFL.

 

 

The NFL is a for-profit business. NFL merchandising is just one way they make money. Now, at our expense, they want a piece of the fantasy football products. IMO it will not happen.

how does this work when McNabb does a soup commercial but wears an Eagles uniform. Where is the line drawn between the individual and the league? I'm sure it's his endorsement deal, it's not the NFL making him do it, but yet he wears the jersey representing the NFL/NFL franchise...color me confused.

[football_scooter 0]

this is the part that I suspect will be the biggest issue - and the fact that player's names are suppossedly the property of NFLPA - kinda hard to provide stats if you can't use a player's name.

Nonsense...

 

Even the greatest game of all time (Super Tecmo Bowl) did it...You just cant stop QB Eagles!!! Of course it was wierd watching QB Eagles throw TDs to Moss in the late 90s.

I respectfully disagree - while that game ruled, check current affairs.

 

EA Sports has exclusive rights to NFLPA intellectual property.

 

That is why Midway needed to use all ficticious player/team names for Blitz the League.

 

This was a big deal last year - I'm sure a google search would produce a detailed account of it...

Thats Basically the whole story... EA got exclusive rights, So Midway, then NFL2k Series, or ESPN Football could not use NFL Player NAmes, which made Madden 06 The only football game this year with NFL player names.

 

Since Midway "The Makers of Blitz" could not use the Player Names, they could do whatever they wanted with their football game... this is why there is violence, drugs, and all that other stuff in that game..with players named Ron Mexico QB... But his info on this topic.

 

http://www.info.ea.com/news/pr/pr569.pdf

 

EA ENTERS INTO EXCLUSIVE AGREEMENTS WITH NFL AND PLAYERS INC

TO EXPAND AND INTEGRATE CUSTOMER ENTERTAINMENT EXPERIENCE

REDWOOD CITY, Calif., December 13, 2004 – Electronic Arts (NASDAQ: ERTS) today announced exclusive licensing relationships with the National Football League and PLAYERS INC to develop, publish and distribute interactive football games. These five-year agreements – which EA negotiated separately – give EA the exclusive rights to the NFL teams, stadiums and players for use in its football videogames. Both agreements also include exclusive rights for console online features. Financial terms of the agreements were not disclosed.

For the first time, all aspects of the interactive experience – including console-based fantasy football features and handheld game devices -- will be fully integrated with one EA game. This also provides the opportunity for new games and for EA to access both NFL Films and the NFL Network for use in the games.

“We are pleased to expand our agreement with Electronic Arts, the leading video game manufacturer and a valued NFL partner,” said NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue. “We look forward to working with EA to continue to enhance the quality of NFL video games that our fans have enjoyed for many years.”

“For more than a decade, EA has produced the most authentic football product for fans of the game” said PLAYERS INC Chairman Gene Upshaw. “This exclusive relationship will maximize the value of NFL players through EA’s continued commitment to bring fans closer to the game.”

“We are excited about the opportunity to further enhance our relationship with the NFL and PLAYERS INC.” said Larry Probst, Chairman and CEO of Electronic Arts. “The five-year agreements will usher NFL fans through the console technology transition with new ideas and innovative game play experiences.”

Both agreements are exclusive for action simulation, arcade-style and manager games on the PC, handheld game devices and consoles – including console online features. The agreements do not include exclusive rights to other types of games or games accessible from the Internet or wireless devices, including cellular phones.

Madden NFL Football from the EA SPORTS™ brand has sold more than 42 million copies over the franchise’s 15 year history. Madden NFL 2005, the most complete football game ever, is available for the PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system, Xbox® videogame system from Microsoft, Nintendo GameCube™, Game Boy® Advance, the PlayStation® console and PC. NFL STREET 2 for the PlayStation 2 console, Xbox system and Nintendo GameCube will be on store shelves by December 26, 2004. Both games were developed by EA Tiburon, and rated “E” (Everyone) by the ESRB. The games official websites are www.madden2005.com and www.nflstreet2.com.

About Electronic Arts

Electronic Arts Inc. (EA), headquartered in Redwood City, California, is the world’s leading interactive entertainment software company. Founded in 1982, EA posted revenues of $2.96 billion for fiscal 2004. The company develops, publishes, and distributes interactive software worldwide for video game systems, personal computers and the Internet. In 2003, EA had 27 titles that sold more than one million copies. Electronic Arts markets its products under three brand names: EA SPORTS™, EA GAMES™ and EA SPORTS BIG™. EA’s homepage and

And that's where it gets dicey on stats for FFB sites.

 

Sure - the stats are fair game.

 

But if you're selling a product or service (FFB League page, scoring interface for example) that has those player/team names in them, then technically you're stepping on the NFLPA's toes.

 

If they get a wild hair up their arse about it, then it could be problematic for those fantasy sites.

[mactheknife 0]

Allow me to briefly post my take on this. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm in law school. Before school I worked for 3 years with the US Copyright Office in DC. So while I haven't looked at this particular scenario I have some limited basic knowledge about intellectual property...

 

Many posters are correct in stating that statistics themselves are not intellectual property. They are facts. Facts cannot be copyrighted. There was a previous post here naming a rather big case, NBA v. Motorola. The jist of it is that NBA sued Motorola for "misappropriation" of stats, because Motorola had a pager-type system that broadcast the stats as "news items." The court said that misappropriation is pre-empted by copyright law, and because statistics are facts and not copyrightable, NBA couldn't prevent Motorola from doing this. (Something like that.)

Nowadays, when someone says they are the "official" stats provider for the NFL, I think it's like saying Pepsi is the "official" soft drink of the 2008 Olympics or whatever.

 

This issue isn't about the actual numbers that players are putting up, however. This is about the names of the players themselves. Now, names aren't copyrightable either, but there is a separate quasi-Intellectual Property right in the name of a famous person (such as an athlete or entertainer) giving him/her the exclusive right to attribute his name to various commercial purposes. The theory is that if, say, a website uses a particular football player's name in their fantasy game, that it would induce people to believe that that football player endorsed the website, or would cause "confusion in the marketplace" about which players endorsed what. Of course, almost all players (Lavar Arrington excluded) transfer their right to the NFLPA, which then collectively licenses everyone's name (in the case of videogames) or various individuals (in the case of, say, football jerseys).

 

Now, I have absolutely no idea whether such an argument will hold up should the NFLPA choose to go to court. From a legal standpoint, they may or may not have a valid beef. From a practical standpoint, as others have posted, I don't see why they would choose to alienate their fanbase.

[Theyhateme459 0]

Everyone is missing the point.

 

Stat Inc Licenses the live stats from the NFL(not NFLPA). Live stats are considered a representation of the game. Stats go to the public domain like 5 min after they happen.

 

Thus if you start a fantasy commish site and want real "live" stats you have to pay a license to the league. If you want 5 min old data you have to pay nothing except just the fee stats inc charges to compile everything.

 

Stats are in the public domain that is not even debatable- stats without a name are meaningless thus the definition of stats is player name plus numbers.

 

All this crap about EA, Jersey with names on them is totally irrelevent.

 

Stats are facts - much like trivial pursuit having questions "Who holds the single season record for most touchdowns?"

 

They don't pay Peyton Manning a fee...

 

The NFLPA will try to claim that there is an implied endorsement by using the player names in the game. Obviously that is laughable.

 

While it should be interesting to see this battle out in court and NFLPA will put up a good fight because money really isn't an object. Ultimately there is really no way they should win....

OK I don't who you are.... so I guess your right, and all the other lawyers and reports, and espn, and whoever knows nothing at all. They are all wrong and the NFl or NFLPA has no case at all. This is not being brought up at a conference because there is no reason.

 

Most people say the NFLPA will have a valid argument, but don't know how the courts will deicide.... But here comes "02035" Who knows it all.. and got the facts to tell us all these people are completly wrong...

 

Thanks your a life saver

[football_scooter 0]

Most people say the NFLPA will have a valid argument, but don't know how the courts will deicide.... But here comes "02035" Who knows it all.. and got the facts to tell us all these people are completly wrong...

 

Thanks your a life saver

[Theyhateme459 0]

Do you think that because Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper, Drew Bledsoe, Kerry Collins, Carson Palmer are in your fantasy game - that you believe that these players are personally endorsing the product???

 

That's the NFLPA's arguement...

 

I'm not saying anything is impossible - hell OJ was ruled innocent - just saying that there is a reason they haven't sued anybody yet, despite fantasy football being decades old and in the mainstream for at least the last 8 or 9 years...

Go back and read page 1 where actual information was cited...

I'm not going to waste my time explaining simple things to incompetent people. Your like the little kid in elementry who could not understand 2+2=4 when the teacher explained it too you over and over again.

[markf 0]

Sure are a lot of people getting p!ssed off at each other over this. Sheesh, give it a rest and discuss the topic. It's a good one.

 

By the way... I know a guy who know's a guy who used to work for STATS, inc. And they do exactly what you'd expect in order to get all of those stats... they have a room full of guys watching sports and keying in the stats as they happen. Sweet job that probably pays for sh!t.

 

At least... that's what this guy who knows this other guy said. :ph34r:

[RTSportsDude 0]

Owner of RealTime Fantasy Sports (RTSports) here. Let me try to clarify this issue for everyone.

 

The issue before us is NOT a copyright issue; therefore newpapers, magazines, etc. who merely report fantasy news, stats, even articles of interest are not affected (a VERY valid argument can be made, however, that fantasy magazines will be indirectly hurt to a great degree should the NFLPA win its case as the publications receive much of its advertising revenue from fantasy football services such as us, WCOFF, etc.) The copyright issue has been tried many times and it has been ruled repeatedly that the dissemination of statistics -- even in real-time -- is public property and NOT susceptable to copyright laws. The NFLPA knows this and realizes that cannot make a copyright argument.

 

The argument being made by the NFLPA deals with personal property rights. They claim that using the NFL players in "games" for profit violates those players' personal property by using their likenesses within our games. THIS is the crux of the argument. It is this issue which is currently being fought between the players association and CDM Fantasy Sports in St. Louis, MO. There is case law supporting both sides of the issue; however, we feel the more recent and prominent cases fall on our side (I cannot get into the details of the cases here, unfortunately.)

 

The CDM case -- if not settled out of court -- will be a landmark case in the fantasy sports industry. I think it is easy to state each of you should be rooting hard for CDM to win. Why? Because -- should the courts side with the NFLPA -- the PA will certainly limit the number of licensees, probably to one, and charge millions for the right to own that one license. And guess how that one licensee will make up the money? Can you say $500 per league for a fantasy commissioner service? With zero customer support?

 

The Fantasy Sports Trade Assocation (FSTA) has hired lawyers on behalf of the 200+ members of their association to defend their case (it is important to note that not all companies in the fantasy commissioner industry belong to the FSTA. A couple of note which are not members include MFL and XpertSports. If you have a league with that service you should encourage them to join -- the more companies in the fight the better the impression on a judge or jury.) The FSTA believes it has an excellent case. To go into the details here would take a long time, but here is the summary of the arguement: Copyright laws come into play when a player's likeness is uniquely identifiable with a product, is crucial to the product, and/or endorses the product. A Colts jersey with number 18 on it is uniquely identfiable with Peyton Manning, and -- as a result -- has a higher value than most other Colts jerseys. Stating that your product is endorsed by Priest Holmes (with a picture of Holmes next to your product) is using Holmes to increase the value of your product. There is no arguement of copyright infringement in those cases. But fantasy commissioner services are not based on the LIKENESS of a particular individual, but rather the STATISTICS they generate! Let's put it this way: If Peyton Manning retired tomorrow, would the fantasy industry suffer? Not in the least. In fact, Peyton's backup (WHOEVER that may be -- it does not matter) would be a "hot commodity" in the fantasy industry, because his STATISTICS would certianly become more desirable for owners. There is not a single individual whose likeliness is integral to the fantasy industry, because the industry is all about the stats which ANY player generates.

 

There are several other issues which support the FSTA's case; again, I cannot go into detail here -- but, needless to say, we feel our argument is very solid. The case against CDM (which is currently in mediation) will most likely not be decided for a long time (again, assuming it is not settled out of court.) Now matter who wins, it is certain to be appealed to the highest court, which could take years. In the meantime RTSports is not going anywhere, and we will continue to fight at every level.

 

One last, very important note. RTSports is NOT a member of Players, Inc. (the NFLPA licensing company.) Like most companies, there is no option to join Players, Inc. But do not assume that current members of Players, Inc. will still be in business if the NFLPA wins their lawsuit! The NFLPA has come right out and told the industry that they plan on reducing the number of licneses to a select few -- maybe even 1 -- if they get their way. All current licenses are for only 1 year (until 2006.) This is for a reason. Being a current licensee has no bearing whatsoever on future deals with the NFLPA.

 

What can you do? Contact your represetative and senators. Get involved. Tell them you do not want to see the NFLPA monopolize the fantasy industry. The NFLPA already has an image problem with the public (drugs, steroids, criminal records, etc.) if they know the public would be outraged with their trying to take over the fantasy industry it will not sit well in Washington and may make the NFLPA think twice.

 

OK, that is enough. I just thought I would try to shed some light on this issue.

[football_scooter 0]

Owner of RealTime Fantasy Sports (RTSports) here. Let me try to clarify this issue for everyone.

 

The issue before us is NOT a copyright issue; therefore newpapers, magazines, etc. who merely report fantasy news, stats, even articles of interest are not affected (a VERY valid argument can be made, however, that fantasy magazines will be indirectly hurt to a great degree should the NFLPA win its case as the publications receive much of its advertising revenue from fantasy football services such as us, WCOFF, etc.) The copyright issue has been tried many times and it has been ruled repeatedly that the dissemination of statistics -- even in real-time -- is public property and NOT susceptable to copyright laws. The NFLPA knows this and realizes that cannot make a copyright argument.

 

The argument being made by the NFLPA deals with personal property rights. They claim that using the NFL players in "games" for profit violates those players' personal property by using their likenesses within our games. THIS is the crux of the argument. It is this issue which is currently being fought between the players association and CDM Fantasy Sports in St. Louis, MO. There is case law supporting both sides of the issue; however, we feel the more recent and prominent cases fall on our side (I cannot get into the details of the cases here, unfortunately.)

 

The CDM case -- if not settled out of court -- will be a landmark case in the fantasy sports industry. I think it is easy to state each of you should be rooting hard for CDM to win. Why? Because -- should the courts side with the NFLPA -- the PA will certainly limit the number of licensees, probably to one, and charge millions for the right to own that one license. And guess how that one licensee will make up the money? Can you say $500 per league for a fantasy commissioner service? With zero customer support?

 

The Fantasy Sports Trade Assocation (FSTA) has hired lawyers on behalf of the 200+ members of their association to defend their case (it is important to note that not all companies in the fantasy commissioner industry belong to the FSTA. A couple of note which are not members include MFL and XpertSports. If you have a league with that service you should encourage them to join -- the more companies in the fight the better the impression on a judge or jury.) The FSTA believes it has an excellent case. To go into the details here would take a long time, but here is the summary of the arguement: Copyright laws come into play when a player's likeness is uniquely identifiable with a product, is crucial to the product, and/or endorses the product. A Colts jersey with number 18 on it is uniquely identfiable with Peyton Manning, and -- as a result -- has a higher value than most other Colts jerseys. Stating that your product is endorsed by Priest Holmes (with a picture of Holmes next to your product) is using Holmes to increase the value of your product. There is no arguement of copyright infringement in those cases. But fantasy commissioner services are not based on the LIKENESS of a particular individual, but rather the STATISTICS they generate! Let's put it this way: If Peyton Manning retired tomorrow, would the fantasy industry suffer? Not in the least. In fact, Peyton's backup (WHOEVER that may be -- it does not matter) would be a "hot commodity" in the fantasy industry, because his STATISTICS would certianly become more desirable for owners. There is not a single individual whose likeliness is integral to the fantasy industry, because the industry is all about the stats which ANY player generates.

 

There are several other issues which support the FSTA's case; again, I cannot go into detail here -- but, needless to say, we feel our argument is very solid. The case against CDM (which is currently in mediation) will most likely not be decided for a long time (again, assuming it is not settled out of court.) Now matter who wins, it is certain to be appealed to the highest court, which could take years. In the meantime RTSports is not going anywhere, and we will continue to fight at every level.

 

One last, very important note. RTSports is NOT a member of Players, Inc. (the NFLPA licensing company.) Like most companies, there is no option to join Players, Inc. But do not assume that current members of Players, Inc. will still be in business if the NFLPA wins their lawsuit! The NFLPA has come right out and told the industry that they plan on reducing the number of licneses to a select few -- maybe even 1 -- if they get their way. All current licenses are for only 1 year (until 2006.) This is for a reason. Being a current licensee has no bearing whatsoever on future deals with the NFLPA.

 

What can you do? Contact your represetative and senators. Get involved. Tell them you do not want to see the NFLPA monopolize the fantasy industry. The NFLPA already has an image problem with the public (drugs, steroids, criminal records, etc.) if they know the public would be outraged with their trying to take over the fantasy industry it will not sit well in Washington and may make the NFLPA think twice.

 

OK, that is enough. I just thought I would try to shed some light on this issue.

Excellent info, thank you for taking the time to convey it.

 

As suspected, it's the player/team names at issue. I admit that I was clueless as to how the stats were treated, but I remember the hulabaloo over the names from the EA sports license issues. Midway got focked.

 

And as an aside, I'm in an RTSports league this year for the 1st time, and it kicks ass. You need to get a site-managed blind bid process in place, but otherwise it's a terrific service - very customizable, never seen an outage and your stats have been spot on. Probably the best value for the money - and the free 1 year TSN scrip was a nice touch.

 

Thanks for a quality product - I'll be encouraging my ESPN league to migrate there next season since our experience has gotten worse and worse over the 3 years we've been at ESPN.

[Theyhateme459 0]

Owner of RealTime Fantasy Sports (RTSports) here.  Let me try to clarify this issue for everyone.

 

The issue before us is NOT a copyright issue; therefore newpapers, magazines, etc. who merely report fantasy news, stats, even articles of interest are not affected (a VERY valid argument can be made, however, that fantasy magazines will be indirectly hurt to a great degree should the NFLPA win its case as the publications receive much of its advertising revenue from fantasy football services such as us, WCOFF, etc.)  The copyright issue has been tried many times and it has been ruled repeatedly that the dissemination of statistics -- even in real-time -- is public property and NOT susceptable to copyright laws.  The NFLPA knows this and realizes that cannot make a copyright argument.

 

The argument being made by the NFLPA deals with personal property rights.  They claim that using the NFL players in "games" for profit violates those players' personal property by using their likenesses within our games.  THIS is the crux of the argument.  It is this issue which is currently being fought between the players association and CDM Fantasy Sports in St. Louis, MO.  There is case law supporting both sides of the issue; however, we feel the more recent and prominent cases fall on our side (I cannot get into the details of the cases here, unfortunately.)

 

The CDM case -- if not settled out of court -- will be a landmark case in the fantasy sports industry.  I think it is easy to state each of you should be rooting hard for CDM to win.  Why?  Because -- should the courts side with the NFLPA -- the PA will certainly limit the number of licensees, probably to one, and charge millions for the right to own that one license.  And guess how that one licensee will make up the money?  Can you say $500 per league for a fantasy commissioner service?  With zero customer support?

 

The Fantasy Sports Trade Assocation (FSTA) has hired lawyers on behalf of the 200+ members of their association to defend their case (it is important to note that not all  companies in the fantasy commissioner industry belong to the FSTA.  A couple of note which are not members include MFL and XpertSports.  If you have a league with that service you should encourage them to join -- the more companies in the fight the better the impression on a judge or jury.)  The FSTA believes it has an excellent case.  To go into the details here would take a long time, but here is the summary of the arguement:  Copyright laws come into play when a player's likeness is uniquely identifiable with a product, is crucial to the product, and/or endorses the product.  A Colts jersey with number 18 on it is uniquely identfiable with Peyton Manning, and -- as a result -- has a higher value than most other Colts jerseys.    Stating that your product is endorsed by Priest Holmes (with a picture of Holmes next to your product) is using Holmes to increase the value of your product.  There is no arguement of copyright infringement in those cases.  But fantasy commissioner services are not based on the LIKENESS of a particular individual, but rather the STATISTICS they generate!  Let's put it this way:  If Peyton Manning retired tomorrow, would the fantasy industry suffer?  Not in the least.  In fact, Peyton's backup (WHOEVER that may be -- it does not matter) would be a "hot commodity" in the fantasy industry, because his STATISTICS would certianly become more desirable for owners.  There is not a single individual whose likeliness is integral to the fantasy industry, because the industry is all about the stats which ANY player generates.

 

There are several other issues which support the FSTA's case; again, I cannot go into detail here -- but, needless to say, we feel our argument is very solid.  The case against CDM (which is currently in mediation) will most likely not be decided for a long time (again, assuming it is not settled out of court.)  Now matter who wins, it is certain to be appealed to the highest court, which could take years.  In the meantime RTSports is not going anywhere, and we will continue to fight at every level.

 

One last, very important note.  RTSports is NOT a member of Players, Inc. (the NFLPA licensing company.)  Like most companies, there is no option to join Players, Inc.  But do not assume that current members of Players, Inc. will still be in business if the NFLPA wins their lawsuit!  The NFLPA has come right out and told the industry that they plan on reducing the number of licneses to a select few -- maybe even 1 -- if they get their way.  All current licenses are for only 1 year (until 2006.)  This is for a reason.  Being a current licensee has no bearing whatsoever on future deals with the NFLPA.

 

What can you do?  Contact your represetative and senators.  Get involved.  Tell them you do not want to see the NFLPA monopolize the fantasy industry.  The NFLPA already has an image problem with the public (drugs, steroids, criminal records, etc.) if they know the public would be outraged with their trying to take over the fantasy industry it will not sit well in Washington and may make the NFLPA think twice.

 

OK, that is enough.  I just thought I would try to shed some light on this issue.

Great high quality Information.

 

Now we ALL KNOW whats what, so we don't have to debate it. Just keep us posted anytime something may develope.

[RTSportsDude 0]

PLEASE debate it! Spread the word! Tell everyone you know. Getting people involved in this discussion is paramount to getting the court of public opinion on our side, which is vital to the industry!

 

Thanks for the kind words and all of your help.

[nflocd 0]

Peyton's backup (WHOEVER that may be -- it does not matter)

Jim Sorgi

or if CDM loses, we'll refer to him as Unnamed Indianapolis Colts Team QB

[Theyhateme459 0]

Owner of RealTime Fantasy Sports (RTSports) here. Let me try to clarify this issue for everyone.

 

The issue before us is NOT a copyright issue; therefore newpapers, magazines, etc. who merely report fantasy news, stats, even articles of interest are not affected (a VERY valid argument can be made, however, that fantasy magazines will be indirectly hurt to a great degree should the NFLPA win its case as the publications receive much of its advertising revenue from fantasy football services such as us, WCOFF, etc.) The copyright issue has been tried many times and it has been ruled repeatedly that the dissemination of statistics -- even in real-time -- is public property and NOT susceptable to copyright laws. The NFLPA knows this and realizes that cannot make a copyright argument.

 

The argument being made by the NFLPA deals with personal property rights. They claim that using the NFL players in "games" for profit violates those players' personal property by using their likenesses within our games. THIS is the crux of the argument. It is this issue which is currently being fought between the players association and CDM Fantasy Sports in St. Louis, MO. There is case law supporting both sides of the issue; however, we feel the more recent and prominent cases fall on our side (I cannot get into the details of the cases here, unfortunately.)

 

The CDM case -- if not settled out of court -- will be a landmark case in the fantasy sports industry. I think it is easy to state each of you should be rooting hard for CDM to win. Why? Because -- should the courts side with the NFLPA -- the PA will certainly limit the number of licensees, probably to one, and charge millions for the right to own that one license. And guess how that one licensee will make up the money? Can you say $500 per league for a fantasy commissioner service? With zero customer support?

 

The Fantasy Sports Trade Assocation (FSTA) has hired lawyers on behalf of the 200+ members of their association to defend their case (it is important to note that not all companies in the fantasy commissioner industry belong to the FSTA. A couple of note which are not members include MFL and XpertSports. If you have a league with that service you should encourage them to join -- the more companies in the fight the better the impression on a judge or jury.) The FSTA believes it has an excellent case. To go into the details here would take a long time, but here is the summary of the arguement: Copyright laws come into play when a player's likeness is uniquely identifiable with a product, is crucial to the product, and/or endorses the product. A Colts jersey with number 18 on it is uniquely identfiable with Peyton Manning, and -- as a result -- has a higher value than most other Colts jerseys. Stating that your product is endorsed by Priest Holmes (with a picture of Holmes next to your product) is using Holmes to increase the value of your product. There is no arguement of copyright infringement in those cases. But fantasy commissioner services are not based on the LIKENESS of a particular individual, but rather the STATISTICS they generate! Let's put it this way: If Peyton Manning retired tomorrow, would the fantasy industry suffer? Not in the least. In fact, Peyton's backup (WHOEVER that may be -- it does not matter) would be a "hot commodity" in the fantasy industry, because his STATISTICS would certianly become more desirable for owners. There is not a single individual whose likeliness is integral to the fantasy industry, because the industry is all about the stats which ANY player generates.

 

There are several other issues which support the FSTA's case; again, I cannot go into detail here -- but, needless to say, we feel our argument is very solid. The case against CDM (which is currently in mediation) will most likely not be decided for a long time (again, assuming it is not settled out of court.) Now matter who wins, it is certain to be appealed to the highest court, which could take years. In the meantime RTSports is not going anywhere, and we will continue to fight at every level.

 

One last, very important note. RTSports is NOT a member of Players, Inc. (the NFLPA licensing company.) Like most companies, there is no option to join Players, Inc. But do not assume that current members of Players, Inc. will still be in business if the NFLPA wins their lawsuit! The NFLPA has come right out and told the industry that they plan on reducing the number of licneses to a select few -- maybe even 1 -- if they get their way. All current licenses are for only 1 year (until 2006.) This is for a reason. Being a current licensee has no bearing whatsoever on future deals with the NFLPA.

 

What can you do? Contact your represetative and senators. Get involved. Tell them you do not want to see the NFLPA monopolize the fantasy industry. The NFLPA already has an image problem with the public (drugs, steroids, criminal records, etc.) if they know the public would be outraged with their trying to take over the fantasy industry it will not sit well in Washington and may make the NFLPA think twice.

 

OK, that is enough. I just thought I would try to shed some light on this issue.

One more question for you.....

 

Shouldn't the NFLPA know that if they win, in the end they would lose??? Don't they know that FF PLayers is the reason Sunday Ticket, NFL.com and other of there money makers are so profitable? They can't be that naive to not know.

[RTSportsDude 0]

And as an aside, I'm in an RTSports league this year for the 1st time, and it kicks ass. You need to get a site-managed blind bid process in place, but otherwise it's a terrific service - very customizable, never seen an outage and your stats have been spot on. Probably the best value for the money - and the free 1 year TSN scrip was a nice touch.

Actually, we have a site-provided blind bidding process. For more info on this, send us an e-mail at support@rtsports.com.

[RTSportsDude 0]

One more question for you.....

 

Shouldn't the NFLPA know that if they win, in the end they would lose??? Don't they know that FF PLayers is the reason Sunday Ticket, NFL.com and other of there money makers are so profitable? They can't be that naive to not know.

I wish I could agree with that assessment....

 

Fantasy football will continue even if they win. The industry is too huge to just go away. Fantasy football companies may die, but all they need is that one company willing to pay $5-$10 million to be the "exclusive" fantasy football provider of the NFL. That is all they care about.

 

And, believe it or not, many people will pay $500 (as a league) for a service if it is the only one out there. They will justify it as "Hey, it is only $50 per person" just like they justify paying $139 for CBS right now. Some hardcore players will go back to pencil and paper, but -- with all the other providers going out of business -- the one high bidder will receive so many new leagues at $500 a pop they will do just fine (not to mention the advertising revenue they can generate.) There are an estimated 13 million people playing fantasy sports right now. The NFLPA knows the money they can reap if they corner that market.

 

People will keep playing fantasy football, keep watching DirectTV, etc. It will just be the small businesses who will lose and the customer who will pay through limited choice, much higher prices, less customer service and more ads to view.

 

That is, unless you -- the customer -- help to do something about it.

[football_scooter 0]

One more question for you.....

 

Shouldn't the NFLPA know that if they win, in the end they would lose??? Don't they know that FF PLayers is the reason Sunday Ticket, NFL.com and other of there money makers are so profitable? They can't be that naive to not know.

I wish I could agree with that assessment....

 

Fantasy football will continue even if they win. The industry is too huge to just go away. Fantasy football companies may die, but all they need is that one company willing to pay $5-$10 million to be the "exclusive" fantasy football provider of the NFL. That is all they care about.

Exactly what I was saying a few pages back - that the NFL or NFLPA or whatever won't suffer, and we the FFB players won't suffer (much) but the small FFB sites would stand to be hurt the most. guys like you (RTSports) myfantasyleague.com, etc - the CBS Sportslines and ESPNs of the world would essentially have a monopoly and the way FFBers suffer is from lack of competition/choices in the FFB marketplace and potentially pay more for it.

 

That sucks. I like having options.

[nflocd 0]

guys like you (RTSports) myfantasyleague.com, etc - the CBS Sportslines and ESPNs of the world would essentially have a monopoly and the way FFBers suffer is from lack of competition/choices in the FFB marketplace and potentially pay more for it.

It sounds like there'd be a single company or a small number of companies that could obtain a license from the NFLPA and be charged a fortune. The only companies that *might* be able to afford such a deal are the biggies like Yahoo! and CBS. And these companies would likely pass the cost onto us. Smaller companies that couldn't afford a license (like RTS, MFL, etc.) would be left out in the cold. So your choices would be even less than you imagine - and you'd have to pay $$.