I'm Telling You Guys That Eli Manning Is This Years Palmer

[xenophobe 1]

5th overall in yards, yes, but he had the 2nd-most attempts in the league. He threw 104 more passes than Peyton and only beat him by 15 yards. I agree that he is on his way up, but has a very long way to go in terms of effectiveness before he is capable of a year like Carson had last year.

 

Perhaps, but no further than Palmer was a year ago.

[GhostofMeanMachine99 1]

Eagles: will bounce back somehwta, but many question marks such as RB, and both lines, as well as secondary got exposed to what they really are when there is no pass rush.

 

Um, I believe the Eagles did upgrade the defensive line this offseason with Darren Howard and Bunkley. Additionally, Mike Patterson enters his 2nd year, Darwin Walker returns from injury, and Trent Cole will look to improve on his surprising rookie campaign.

 

We've seen 2 years ago that this secondary is among the best in the NFL when there is a solid pass rush.

 

Let's put it this way: which team in the NFL has an effective secondary without a pass rush?

 

On the offensive line, the health concerns with Fraley and Tra Thomas are not as large and looming because of their depth. The one thing Andy Reid has shown a penchant for is identifying o-line talent in the draft and being able to work them into very good NFL linemen. I believe Jackson will win the center job, and Justice will eventually replace Tra Thomas, who at this point is not healthy enough to play the whole season IMO.

 

They may not be a gelled unit, but they will be big mothers, especially if Jean-Gilles can win the other starting guard spot.

 

Both lines are deep with talent. You are right, though, that the running game will be a concern. They will add a veteran RB sometime before/during training camp. Whomever that is needs to be big enough to carry some of the running load in the 2nd half of games.

[football_scooter 0]

Don't even go there. Chad is superior in the red zone, the green zone, the white zone (for loading and unloading only), the ozone, and the twilight zone.

[t.j 35]

Im not at all bashing Palmer....in fact he is one of my Fav QBs in the NFL right now....What palmers done is amazing....but i think eli will put up better numbers this year....he has a little more expriance under his belt now, and he has talent at the WR position, Burress has shown he is capable of putting up decent numbers and toomers no bum.....+ the addition of Moss will help alot and i think will increase his numbers

 

Perhaps, but no further than Palmer was a year ago.

 

I don't think Moss is going to contribute a lot to the Giants' offensive effectiveness as a rookie. People are making some good cases in this thread for Eli to put up some awesome numbers in a few years, though, assuming they get an effective replacement for Toomer when he retires. I think you could argue that Eli is as far along mentally as Palmer was a year ago, but I think the disadvantages that I posted in my first post in the thread are too big for him to overcome. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Eli's potential for '06.

[Dont_Fook_Wit_me 0]

I don't think Moss is going to contribute a lot to the Giants' offensive effectiveness as a rookie. People are making some good cases in this thread for Eli to put up some awesome numbers in a few years, though, assuming they get an effective replacement for Toomer when he retires. I think you could argue that Eli is as far along mentally as Palmer was a year ago, but I think the disadvantages that I posted in my first post in the thread are too big for him to overcome. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Eli's potential for '06.

 

 

Good post.....i guess only time will tell, we will have to see what happens in training camp and preseason. Ill be keeping a close eye on Eli

[G-Men (formerly Big Blue) 0]

Don't even go there. Chad is superior in the red zone, the green zone, the white zone (for loading and unloading only), the ozone, and the twilight zone.

 

Plax a full 5 yards per catch better than CJ last year CJ = 9 TDs, Plax = 7, last year (when Plax was actually in a passing offense and not hurt). See Plax's 2002 numbers also. 2003 & 2004 were plagued by injury and becoming 2nd fiddle to Ward/running offense.

 

very under rated = Houshmandzadeh. Toomer has been a solid starting receiver for a long time but will is also 32 years old this season. Good for Toomer had a great playoff game once... I guess you are excited about that because your boy Plaxighost got shut out in the playoff game last year.

 

So Toomer's 32 years old, does that make him over the hill in WR terms? No, especially since he keeps his body in great condition. I expect another solid year from him. 800 yards and 8-10 TDS is a solid #2, Housh is not much better than Toomer.

 

 

In a few years, the Giants line hopes to be as good as Cincy's line already was/is. Right now, they are significantly inferior.

 

I think that you should give the Giants O-line some credit for putting up 422 points last year, one more than Cincy, having a runner run for 1850 yards, posting a full half yard per carry more than cincy, 300 more rushing yards than Cincy. They also gave up only 28 sacks, Cincy gave up 21. So that is comparable, especially since the Giants had more pass attempts (20). Cincy was #2 in sacks allowed, Giants were #9.

Exactly how are they that inferior? Show me? Just because they don't have the household names?

 

 

That's nice. So maybe Eli will have numbers like Brees or Hasselbeck last year. But not Palmer.

 

Eli will probably not put up Palmer #'s. But I think 30 TDS and 3800 yards with 14 INTs is very doable. He could make all the throws, has more weapons than Cincy (Barber out of the backfield, Shockey, Sinorice Moss), so the numbers should be there and I think you will be splitting hairs between 2006 Eli vs. 2005 Palmer.

[Raider 84 29]

He has been working very hard in the off season and is ready to break out! He is only going to get better with time. Don't pass on a stud in the making.

[t.j 35]

Plax a full 5 yards per catch better than CJ last year CJ = 9 TDs, Plax = 7, last year (when Plax was actually in a passing offense and not hurt). See Plax's 2002 numbers also. 2003 & 2004 were plagued by injury and becoming 2nd fiddle to Ward/running offense.

 

Ask yourself this: Do you think CJ would be 2nd fiddle to Ward in the passing game? I don't think so.

Plax has never had more than 7 TDs in a season... CJ has 9+ three years in a row. Come on man, CJ is one of the 5 best WRs in the NFL, he is much more athletic and skilled than Burress, who is a big stiff by comparison.

 

So Toomer's 32 years old, does that make him over the hill in WR terms? No, especially since he keeps his body in great condition. I expect another solid year from him. 800 yards and 8-10 TDS is a solid #2, Housh is not much better than Toomer.

 

Toomer is slowing down and the numbers bear it out. I disagree that he is comparable to Houshmandadeh anymore, but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

I think that you should give the Giants O-line some credit for putting up 422 points last year, one more than Cincy, having a runner run for 1850 yards, posting a full half yard per carry more than cincy, 300 more rushing yards than Cincy. They also gave up only 28 sacks, Cincy gave up 21. So that is comparable, especially since the Giants had more pass attempts (20). Cincy was #2 in sacks allowed, Giants were #9. Exactly how are they that inferior? Show me? Just because they don't have the household names?

 

I'm not saying the Giants' o-line doesn't deserve any credit, but IMO they are not at the level that Cincy's line was last year. We can argue stats back and forth all day but it won't get us anywhere. You mentioned that Eli throws the ball away a lot and now you want to say the lines are comparable because the Giants only gave up 7 more sacks (33% more, BTW) than Cincy? That's just an example of how stats are a positive in one light and a negative in another.

And here's another: the greater rushing totals for New York probably have a lot to do with the ability of Tiki Barber, which you praised earlier. At any rate, pass-blocking and run-blocking are not the same skill, last I checked.

You could argue until you are blue in the face (and I don't mean just your Giants-blue colored glasses), but the bottom line is this: The Giants had a good offense with a pretty good passing game last year, but Palmer had an All Pro performance on a team that relied on the pass. There is a big difference, especially when it comes down to QB stats. You want to cloud the difference by saying things like both "both QBs have good arms" and "Housh is not much better than Toomer," but there is more difference than you are willing to admit.

 

Eli will probably not put up Palmer #'s. But I think 30 TDS and 3800 yards with 14 INTs is very doable. He could make all the throws, has more weapons than Cincy (Barber out of the backfield, Shockey, Sinorice Moss), so the numbers should be there and I think you will be splitting hairs between 2006 Eli vs. 2005 Palmer.

 

Well, at least we agree that Eli will probably not put up Palmer numbers. I can't agree that the numbers difference will simply be splitting hairs, it will be a clear difference. I disagree that Eli has more weapons, and he certainly doesn't have better weapons. Again Palmer has much better WRs, a better o-line, and don't forget Chris Perry who is a solid third-down back.

[G-Men (formerly Big Blue) 0]

Well, at least we agree that Eli will probably not put up Palmer numbers. I can't agree that the numbers difference will simply be splitting hairs, it will be a clear difference. I disagree that Eli has more weapons, and he certainly doesn't have better weapons. Again Palmer has much better WRs, a better o-line, and don't forget Chris Perry who is a solid third-down back.

 

 

We shall see. I normally have a pretty good read on my team. Before the start of last year, I said that Tiki will have a much better 05 than his record breaking 04, people laughed at me. The reasons I gave were better O-line, Barber stays in great condition, and Eli's maturity. I think the same apply here just substitute Barber's conditioning to Eli's workaholic off-season with film study and also conditioning. Also the addition of Sinorice Moss will off set Toomer aging 1 year and Shockey is a nice option that Palmer doesn't have, plus Barber out of the backfield. Barring injury to the offense in which they return all starters, I don't see how this offense and Eli won't gel.

[xenophobe 1]

I think a lot of people are going to be very suprised at how good Eli and the Giants offense will be this year. I expect a lot of improvement in Y3.

[icecheeze 0]

if palmer's knee is fine i believe he will be this year's palmer again...

[TheGiantJets 18]

you don't have to tell me. i already know LETS GO GIANTS