and the Oakland Raiders select...

[R8RMick 242]

A waste? We are talking about a 2-14 team here! We were a lot more than a coaching staff and a QB away from contention. The only waste would be if we continue to refuse to rebuild, and never get good as a result. The defense was pretty good, but let's face it, if our opponents had more of a need to score more points against us, our defense would be ranked a lot lower than it was. Take the opener against San Diego, for example. The Chargers gained 196 yards in the first half, then in the second half they ran on almost every single down even though we were stopping the run, because they were content to waste clock and then punt. As a result they only gained 106 yards in the second half.

I don't know. Historically Mr. Davis is against drafting QBs high and is against rebuilding. But who knows, man. The Raiders have gone 15-49 in the last four seasons. This from a franchise that had the highest winning percentage of any franchise in the major professional sports in this country. It's hard to say how that is going to affect Mr. Davis' decision making. Remember when he re-hired Art Shell he said he made a mistake firing Shell the first time, you got the impression Shell's job was safe for a good long time. But last season was so bad he was out the door again after 1 year.

I agree. There are a lot of bad things that could happen if we draft Russell. He might get David Carred with a bad line and bad coaching. He might simply not have what it takes to make decisions in the pocket at NFL speed, ala Daunte Culpepper. He's coming out as a Junior and that is often bad. There are plenty of reasons to pick someone else, but hopefully impatience (trying to rush the improvement of the offense to catch up with the defense) will not be a reason that decides our pick.

 

Here's what the Raiders need to do... I realize this is a novel concept...

 

The Raiders need to do their homework! They should not decide based primarily on position, which means they should not avoid drafting a QB and they should also not limit themselves to QBs with their choice. It seems like it gets lost with all the fan speculation, but drafting is no more about drafting the consensus most talented guy any more than it is about drafting the most important position. They just need to review the film carefully, interview these guys until they are satisfied that they understand the mental makeup of the player, and lastly understand how all of these players fits (or doesn't fit) into what they are trying to do.

 

 

 

Your takes on this team are usually very solid, and I'm wondering what's your history as a Raider fan. Especially in light of you referring to the Godfather as "Mr. Davis..."

 

That defense last year DID play over its head. Any Raider fan who says they weren't pleasantly surprised, or predicted that level of play, would be lying. You refer to the opening night Charger game, I think Marty went into a second half shell more to protect Rivers than anything. Though there was no reason to change that strategy with the way the Raider offense was playing.

 

I contend that a change in philosophy will do WONDERS for this offense, and the team in general. I'm talking a CHANCE at a 7-9 season here, with room to build for the future as well. This will require Al to turn over a level of control to Kiffin, like he did with Chuckie. Al trotting out that 1994 version of the Vertical Offense, with Art Shell and Tom Walsh in control last year, was about the most embarrassing thing I've ever endured as a fan of the Nation.

 

Tell me you didn't refer to that "alltime winning percentage" crap in your above post...

 

On Jamarcus Russell... Look, I don't care if he's got the Steelers O-Line of the mid seventies in front of him that kid is going to struggle. That is what rookie QB's do in the NFL. There is an adjustment period for even the BEST signal callers drafted, in getting to a point where they can read an NFL defense without getting killed or embarrassed or take their team out of games. I actually feel a rookie learns more by carrying a clipboard their first season than by playing. In other words I prefer the Carson Palmer method than the Troy Aikman method of getting the living hell kicked out of you. On top of that, if you throw Russell into this current Raiders situation that will be a recipe for disaster. If you want to draft Russell, fine, let's bring in a David Carr or Trent Green for him to sit and learn behind.

 

You can do all the homework and breaking down of game film that you want. But Al Davis always sees a different game. In fact, his mantra has always been being the 'Maverick.' Sometimes I think Al goes against the grain just to prove to people what a genius he still is. He really could care less what fans of the Nation think about his decision making also. I've often compared us to the old faithful family dog. We get kicked around and neglected all year, yet every September we come back around, wagging our tail and looking for a bone.

 

Myself, the ONLY light I have right now is that Al has brought in a young co-ordinator before and let him run wild. That worked well for him, in that it proved his genius for 'going against the grain' and picking young talent. But it also worked against him in that Chuckie eventually started to grab more and more of the spotlight here. Can any one of us say that wasn't the reason Gruden was ran? Of course not.

 

You think the problems of this organization, specifically last years 2-14 record, are on the football field. I say they are elsewhere. One cannot be addressed until the other is settled. Bottom line.

 

Nice talk.

[traders2001 0]

The Raiders should pick the best player available, they have so many weaknesses ( RB - QB - LB - OL etc , etc )

They should select Peterson and build around him . No Russell ( Bust ) , No QUinn ( Is nt worthy of first overall ) yes Jhonson is a great WR but when you have nobody running or passing the ball you dont need Jhonson.

[t.j 35]

Your takes on this team are usually very solid, and I'm wondering what's your history as a Raider fan. Especially in light of you referring to the Godfather as "Mr. Davis..."

 

That defense last year DID play over its head. Any Raider fan who says they weren't pleasantly surprised, or predicted that level of play, would be lying. You refer to the opening night Charger game, I think Marty went into a second half shell more to protect Rivers than anything. Though there was no reason to change that strategy with the way the Raider offense was playing.

 

I contend that a change in philosophy will do WONDERS for this offense, and the team in general. I'm talking a CHANCE at a 7-9 season here, with room to build for the future as well. This will require Al to turn over a level of control to Kiffin, like he did with Chuckie. Al trotting out that 1994 version of the Vertical Offense, with Art Shell and Tom Walsh in control last year, was about the most embarrassing thing I've ever endured as a fan of the Nation.

 

Tell me you didn't refer to that "alltime winning percentage" crap in your above post...

 

On Jamarcus Russell... Look, I don't care if he's got the Steelers O-Line of the mid seventies in front of him that kid is going to struggle. That is what rookie QB's do in the NFL. There is an adjustment period for even the BEST signal callers drafted, in getting to a point where they can read an NFL defense without getting killed or embarrassed or take their team out of games. I actually feel a rookie learns more by carrying a clipboard their first season than by playing. In other words I prefer the Carson Palmer method than the Troy Aikman method of getting the living hell kicked out of you. On top of that, if you throw Russell into this current Raiders situation that will be a recipe for disaster. If you want to draft Russell, fine, let's bring in a David Carr or Trent Green for him to sit and learn behind.

 

You can do all the homework and breaking down of game film that you want. But Al Davis always sees a different game. In fact, his mantra has always been being the 'Maverick.' Sometimes I think Al goes against the grain just to prove to people what a genius he still is. He really could care less what fans of the Nation think about his decision making also. I've often compared us to the old faithful family dog. We get kicked around and neglected all year, yet every September we come back around, wagging our tail and looking for a bone.

 

Myself, the ONLY light I have right now is that Al has brought in a young co-ordinator before and let him run wild. That worked well for him, in that it proved his genius for 'going against the grain' and picking young talent. But it also worked against him in that Chuckie eventually started to grab more and more of the spotlight here. Can any one of us say that wasn't the reason Gruden was ran? Of course not.

 

You think the problems of this organization, specifically last years 2-14 record, are on the football field. I say they are elsewhere. One cannot be addressed until the other is settled. Bottom line.

 

Nice talk.

 

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe that the Raiders have big problems off the field, and that those problems have caused the problems that we saw on the field. I am not very optimistic that they are being fixed, either.

 

I only pointed out the franchise's all time success because it is such a stark contrast to the horrible record we have had in the last four years. Before 2003, the Raiders had not had a season as bad as 4-12 in over 3½ decades. In the last four years, our average record has been worse than 4-12, with an all-time worst 2-14 last year. Yes, Mr. Davis has never been willing to rebuild before, but the team has never been this far from contention, let alone for an extended period like this. Perhaps now, he is willing to rebuild. Perhaps now, he will recognize that the quick fix is not going to happen. And I emphasize the word perhaps.

 

That said I am not sold on Jamarcus Russell any more than you are. To me he did a lot of great things in college but the one thing I am not sure he proved he can do is consistently make plays within the pocket with little time to throw. Well, that's exactly what he's going to have to do a lot of if he joins this Raider team. In the short term I agree we are not going to win anything with him as our QB.

I disagree with you thought that the Carson Palmer method is better. IMO a QB is going to get better faster if he plays as a rookie than if he doesn't, no question about it. And you are going to learn more about your quarterback the sooner you put him in there. I was ok with what the Bengals did because they had a QB (Kitna) on the roster who had already started for the team for 2 years and was coming off a pretty decent year when they drafted Palmer. The Raiders are not in that situation, to me it doesn't make sense to waste reps on a different guy who is just as new to the team as the rookie, but isn't the future.

 

As for the defense, absolutely I was pleasantly surprised with the way they played last year. We haven't had a good defense IMO more than one or two seasons in the last 15 years, but last year's was a good defense. However, "playing over their heads" or however you want to put it, I'm not sold that they are a truly great defense, that they are the kind of defense that will lead you to the playoffs if the offense can simply play average.

 

I guess where we disagree is on how much of a difference a change of philosophy is going to make for our offense. The offense was so bad (one of the 5 lowest-scoring NFL teams in the past 20 years) that it's obvious that not only was the philosophy bad... but so were the players in every area. I honestly don't see us winning 7 games with any of the available QBs out there. Not unless Kiffin and new staff are Gruden-level geniuses. And I am not very optimistic of that being the case, because Gruden had a ton of success at the NFL level (as high up as offensive coordinator) when he took over for us. I think that is a critical and often overlooked component of the success Gruden had here. Meanwhile Kiffin is coming out of college. And any way, if it turns out that Kiffin is that good, then I would trust him to develop a QB picked at #1.

 

The Raiders should pick the best player available, they have so many weaknesses ( RB - QB - LB - OL etc , etc )

They should select Peterson and build around him . No Russell ( Bust ) , No QUinn ( Is nt worthy of first overall ) yes Jhonson is a great WR but when you have nobody running or passing the ball you dont need Jhonson.

 

I disagree. Peterson is 22 years old, RBs are only good generally through about age 30, his career will be half over by the time the Raiders have a chance to become a contender again. I am not convinced that Peterson is the best player in the draft anyway. Top 5 probably, but I would just as easily say that Johnson or Joe Thomas or Alan Branch or Laron Landry is the best player in the draft. Which brings us back to positional importance, obviously no one is probably ever going to take a safety #1 even though a Huff/Landry safety combo would be focking awesome. RB is not that much more important of a position than WR, I don't think it makes sense to say take the best player available instead of a QB, and then say take a RB instead of the best player available.