The Real timschochet

I gave you very good arguments as to why we should do this. The only rebuttal I received, as usual, was the obstinate and childish “we need to deport them all!” which is never going to happen. We can’t have this discussion unless you guys accept that most if not all undocumented immigrants are here to stay.

They don’t care about voting.

It’s not realistic.

It’s not a question of what they deserve, it’s a question what is most beneficial for society.

You’ll see a show. In the end the numbers won’t change.

It’s funny because I have a very similar argument with some my liberal friends about guns. Some of them want to live in a country without any private ownership of guns, they want them all to be seized. Thats never going to happen. Neither is mass deportation. These are realities we have to live with.

Yeah I know. But this isn’t going to happen. That’s what you refuse to accept.

Giving them a license has no impact whatsoever on their status as an undocumented immigrant. If they commit a crime arrest them, punish them and deport them. I’m all for that. Licenses have nothing to do with it.

You guys also act like we’re doing some great favor by giving these guys licenses. We’re not. They’re going to drive anyhow. The only purpose of the license is to regulate it. It serves us not them. The story posted in the OP would have occurred whether the guy had a license or not.

The problem with most of you here is that you can’t get past the fact that these folks came here illegally. I get that, I really do. But they’re here now and we’re never going to deport them and so we have to deal with what makes the most sense- not for them but for the rest of us. My solution is to get them out of the shadows, into the system. Thats safer for all of us.

There are millions of undocumented immigrants. They’re not going away. They’re not going to be deported. They drive. Our choices are we give them licenses or they drive illegally. If they drive illegally they are bound to cause more problems than if they have licenses. To me this is just practical common sense.

To be honest most of my friends are conservatives (I live in Orange County) so I know you’re right (not about what you call “bullsh!t” but about the numbers. And frankly it would be nice to see conservatives win some elections here. Not because I agree with most of your ideas, but because if we were a purple state I think we would matter more.

And incidentally it’s a damn good idea to give drivers licenses to undocumented people.

I dunno. I’m a liberal born and bred here, plenty of people like me.

I believe most of the nation will agree with you in a few months

I’m frankly surprised there’s been no discussion of this. Jordan is likely to become Speaker tomorrow, and for MAGA types and modern day conservatives (which form the bulk of those posting here) this is in many ways nearly as big a victory as Donald Trump winning the Presidency in 2016, if not more so. If there was a civil war in the GOP, Jordan’s victory will mean it’s over. The establishment types have lost. The party has been fully transformed into the Freedom Caucus/Trump vision: nativist, nationalist, anti-woke, and no compromise with Democrats whatsoever. Since that is what most of you guys want, you should be pretty happy about it. If Jordan sticks to his pledges it will mean aid to Ukraine cut off, Joe Biden impeached, and an impending government shutdown unless spending on things Democrats love is severely curtailed. And that’s for starters. Of course we will have to see if any of this actually happens.

Actually Der Fuehrer was defeated in a couple of elections prior to being appointed Chancellor,

Hyperventilating? I found the whole thing amusing.

Well now it’s done: Trump has everything he wants: control of House, control of Senate, Presidency, a conservative Supreme Court. Time to govern; let’s see how it comes out.

And now the Republicans are congratulating each other on this mess. Hilarious. Unity!!

Looks like Self and Norman will change their vote and Johnson will get in. Just my guess but that’s what it looks like. Wonder what Johnson promised them?

Well if it’s fake it’s conservatives who raised it.

They suspended voting on the first ballot trying to get the two holdouts to change their mind. My bet is that will happen and Johnson will be the next Speaker shortly. But who knows? What a clown show.

I absolutely believe in moral absolutes and in good and evil. But I don’t think it applies in the way that you have chosen to apply it. I also reject your example of Muslim immigrants in European countries. For the most part they have worked out fine. There are always some problems and some radicals but they don’t represent the majority. I would counter your examples with the example of the Turkish community in Berlin, of which I have become personally familiar. Because of some business and personal relationships I have become very familiar with Muslim communities in Southern California: not just individuals but whole groups of people. And I can tell you flatly that your assumptions are just wrong. But if you doubt this, then I invite you to visit a mosque in your own community. Go on a Friday afternoon before prayer. Ask to speak to the Imam and ask any questions you’d like. I guarantee you will be welcomed. If you truly wish to be informed on this subject that is.

You need to channel your inner Matt Saracen.