Sean Mooney

Look I will try to be as clear about this as possible with the hopes you will stop obfuscating the point and ask for clarifications if you need more before immediately jumping to assuming my conclusion. Nowhere have I said Biden didn't have verbal gaffes. Nowhere did I say he was good in the debate with Trump. The only question I asked is- what were the people in the Democrat party seeing behind the scenes. Were they seeing someone privately that differed from what they were seeing publicly? Because even in some of Biden's "bad" press conferences- he was having solid moments. The Christian Science Monitor noted this in speaking about a press conference he did in July after the debate- you might remember the one from the scenarios mentioned: Now as I said earlier- if the Democrats behind the scenes were seeing a similar Biden- who was bad at times and good at times (sometimes in the same meetings) I can understand why they tried to hang on. It does not mean they were right for doing so, but I can understand the thinking as warped as it is. If Biden was completely unable to have good moments in public AND was like that behind the scenes as well then yes it is completely idiotic they hung on to him. And no I put very little value in what people here said because the most ardent MAGA people here make roughly 100 proclamations a week and hitting on 2 of them doesn't make them a prognosticator. It makes them a broken clock right twice a day. That puts us to where we are now with Democrats coming out against Biden. You seem to want to say (and correct me if I'm wrong)- "even though the Democrats are always wrong and we should never believe them, but I believe them now because it fits what I want them to be or say." I view it as "This is a bunch of idiots trying to divert away from the awful campaign they ran." I come to that conclusion because I always assume politicians and political parties are lying to me. Hidden in both of those conclusions is- Biden is no use to them anymore so they are okay pointing the finger.

This article also seems to throw a lot of stuff out there that flies in the face of your assertion that the MSM reporters were purposely not reporting it as "noted liberal papers" The New York Times and Washington Post mentioned it a lot: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/did-the-media-hide-bidens-aging

Well at least you are being honest now.

Where did I say that? Also, what articles do you have that show they purposely weren't reporting it? I've seen articles that talk about stuff related to it but I'm curious what more you have

You are trying to assign meaning to what I am saying without understanding what I wrote or even knowing ultimately what my position is. I have not jumped to any conclusions about what you are saying- I'd appreciate the same courtesy if you want to actually have a discussion.

That is a long way to avoid answering the question. I can rightly assume then that the answer is nothing. You have no knowledge you are privy to about how Biden was behind closed doors. Unless you want to change your answer?

You missed the question: So answer this simple question to start and we can move on from there: what knowledge are you privy to about how Biden was behind closed doors in private meetings?

To be clear- no one has blamed Trump for this. It seems like the texts came from an app called TextNow which the company spokesperson says was a "widespread, coordinated attack." Essentially you can go on the app with an e-mail address and text out to a bunch of people and the app makes it look like it is coming from a legitimate phone number. The company went through and deleted all the accounts. The FBI and DOJ are looking into everything and seeing if they can determine the source of the texts. The texts were sent primarily to "black and brown people" and reads:

Again- you are blissfully ignoring what I am saying because you want my opinion to be against yours so you can argue it. Additionally- you are taking the Democrats at the word now after months of saying we should not- the only thing that has changed is you got the result you wanted. That is a flawed decision-making paradigm. So answer this simple question to start and we can move on from there: what knowledge are you privy to about how Biden was behind closed doors in private meetings?

It can also be true in that they look up see the sky blue and then say "Well we were saying all along...." Gaslighting works in a few different ways. Here are the facts we know- we know how Biden looked in some interviews, we know how he looked in the debate on June 27th. Here is what we don't know- what was Biden like behind the scenes. What we know now following Tuesday's election is there is fingerpointing at Biden You take it to mean "The democrats finally came around to my way of thinking and should be castigated for how they are treating Biden I take it to mean: "They are doing everything they can to not blame themselves for running a shitty campaign and Biden is the scapegoat."

The other thing I'll add to the election this year is: If your opponents are running a campaign that is using criticizing DEI as a part of it- may not be the best idea to run a candidate that the perception of is that they were a DEI hire*. *(Again- I think that label greatly undercuts what Kamala has accomplished in her career but as I often argue here- perception always trumps reality for people)

I'm not defending it. I also find it curious that we are always supposed to think Democrats are lying to us but now they aren't. A handful of people are speaking on this and I would argue they are trying to cover their tracks and deflect away from their own mistakes. Biden isn't the future of the party. Biden may not survive through next year. He is an easy target at this point. Also- lots of MAGA people here "call things out" that ultimately aren't true. I think at this point though you are just fundamentally ignoring what I am saying to fill the narrative agenda you want to have on this. And lastly- a few people here on the left have indicated they think Trump is in cognitive decline- there is a whole thread about it somewhere...if 2 or 3 years from now we have Trump having a mental breakdown in public and the liberals here start victory lapping "I told you so" type stuff I look forward to you saying "Yup I should've listened to you."

The Democrats probably still lose. The economy was by far the most important aspect of this election. According to a Gallup poll the 5 main issues for Republican and Democrat voters didn't overlap. Republicans issues in order: Economy, Immigration, terrorism, crime, taxes Democrat issues in order: Democracy, Supreme Court Justice picks, abortion, healthcare, education

That is a weird take on what I said. Again- what knowledge do you have about how he was in private meetings? And why are we assuming that what is being said now by Democrats is not just trying to play Monday Morning Quarterback on the race?

This is an interesting piece from CNN looking at some of the turmoil that was within the Harris campaign from like September on. For those that don't want to read the article there is a pretty hilarious picture almost at the bottom of two people watching the results of the night at Howard university. It looks like a kid throwing a temper tantrum with the dad giving a "what can you do" face: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/06/politics/harris-campaign-went-wrong/index.html A few notes though:

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute- none of us here know what Biden was like in private meetings or what his leadership style was like behind the scenes in 2024 versus like 2022 or 2020 or anything like that. Yes there were some things he said in public where you scratched your head a little but I'd also argue that stringing together long cogent arguments was never a major strong suit of his. I'd also wager that some of his advisors were saying to themselves "Well Trump goes off on these weird tangents too at times and it never seems to hurt him..." But when the debate happened you had 90-120 minutes of Biden out there on live TV stumbling through words and thoughts and sounding off and at that point no matter what he was behind the scenes- the public perception was now going to be Biden on that June 27th night. And you 100% weren't going to recover from that- especially when everything coming out of the debate in the media was not centered around answers of either candidate. It was all around "So, what's wrong with Biden" Now if Biden was like that behind the scenes and they turned a blind eye- that's on them in every way. If there was a gap between his private self and public image- then yeah it's a little murkier and makes sense why maybe they were trying to play out the string

They are deflecting away from criticizing their own shitty job at running a campaign.

What facts? I'm saying Musk might not be the most qualified person for the amount of power he is going to be given. Additionally- he shouldn't be given unchecked power. The president's job is to check his power.

None of that applies to me. No you didn't. You guys must love authoritarian citizens.

That's true but doesn't change what I said. You want to try again?

It's fine by me if you are okay with the potential of Elon Musk having unchecked power....

He probably got mad he had zero friends? I mean- I'm of the age I went through the Facebook era. Hell i went through the MySpace era. I have an Instagram and Snapchat and Twitter as well. I rarely use them, but they are there

The problem becomes they are selling that they are "News" but they are offering takes. It goes back to the idea that they might not see what they are but that is how people see them. They are the most watched news network by far and you have people like my wife's grandmother who almost literally watches FOX News from the time she gets up until the time she goes to bed. I'd assume the numbers are huge in people like her. And for her it's all news, not opinion.

Saw this article, read it, and thought it fit in somewhere with the discussion of "unqualified" people in positions of power. https://www.axios.com/2024/11/07/elon-musk-trump-election

You have free rent in his head too? Awesome. Look at us in this horrible economy living rent free