lennie75 0 Posted April 5, 2006 I am just wondering if ownership moves like the Titans make anyone change their thoughts on holdouts?? I haven't really formed an opinion yet...but it is definately making me think!!!!! Why is it so bad for J. Walker, T.O., or H. Ward to hold out?? Or, why is it bad for B. Favre to wait and make a decision?? If ownership can tell you to renegotiate your contract or send you packing. I just wanted to hear some people's opininos!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted April 5, 2006 I am just wondering if ownership moves like the Titans make anyone change their thoughts on holdouts?? I haven't really formed an opinion yet...but it is definately making me think!!!!! Why is it so bad for J. Walker, T.O., or H. Ward to hold out?? Or, why is it bad for B. Favre to wait and make a decision?? If ownership can tell you to renegotiate your contract or send you packing. I just wanted to hear some people's opininos!! I think every case is should be judged on its own merit but In all three cases above I side with the player (and that is being an Eagle fan) Walker is making nothing at this point for what he was...managment should have tried to sign the guy earlier than this and extended his contract....yes he signed the contract but its incumbent on the team to not take advantage of its players. Owens...He signed a bad contract, the Eagles knew it, he tried behind the scenes to see if something else could be done and the front office leaked it out to make him look like the bad guy...its the Eagle way. This doesnt absolve him of his jack-assery but people love to absolve the Eagles of any wrong doing. McNair...that is pure crap on the teams part....Would the Pack do this to Favre....Would the Broncos have done it to Elway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted April 5, 2006 Because being cut and getting no guaranteed money is part of the player's contract under the CBA...while holding out is not. The Players...through their union...agreed to the system...tough beans. As far as Favre...the only one's complaining are fans for the most part. He is under contract...and is acting according to the contract (as there are stipulations in it for retirement). Holding out is not the same thing. McNair...that is pure crap on the teams part....Would the Pack do this to Favre....Would the Broncos have done it to Elway? Were either injury prone QBs going to cost the team 23 mil against the cap in the upcoming season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lennie75 0 Posted April 5, 2006 Because being cut and getting no guaranteed money is part of the player's contract under the CBA...while holding out is not. The Players...through their union...agreed to the system...tough beans. As far as Favre...the only one's complaining are fans for the most part. He is under contract...and is acting according to the contract (as there are stipulations in it for retirement). Holding out is not the same thing. Were either injury prone QBs going to cost the team 23 mil against the cap in the upcoming season? Umm...who cares how much the cap hit would be. We are talking about pure business ethics not monetary values. What is the difference between creating a big cap hit..and not getting paid enough. They are both the same thing. And, don't give the arguement the contract says anythign about holding out. Actually, you are right...it says nothing about it...so a player can do it just as easily as a team can cut someone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted April 5, 2006 Because being cut and getting no guaranteed money is part of the player's contract under the CBA...while holding out is not. The Players...through their union...agreed to the system...tough beans. As far as Favre...the only one's complaining are fans for the most part. He is under contract...and is acting according to the contract (as there are stipulations in it for retirement). Holding out is not the same thing. Were either injury prone QBs going to cost the team 23 mil against the cap in the upcoming season? As I said yesterday then they should have cut him...and let him move on....If a guy is part of your team currently then I think its a classless move.... So what if they are negotiating his deal down....Maybe the Titans shouldnt have given the BS backloaded retarded amount in the first place and then they wouldnt be in this situation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted April 5, 2006 I think every case is should be judged on its own merit but In all three cases above I side with the player (and that is being an Eagle fan) Walker is making nothing at this point for what he was...managment should have tried to sign the guy earlier than this and extended his contract....yes he signed the contract but its incumbent on the team to not take advantage of its players. Owens...He signed a bad contract, the Eagles knew it, he tried behind the scenes to see if something else could be done and the front office leaked it out to make him look like the bad guy...its the Eagle way. This doesnt absolve him of his jack-assery but people love to absolve the Eagles of any wrong doing. McNair...that is pure crap on the teams part....Would the Pack do this to Favre....Would the Broncos have done it to Elway? Walker is not an established player, he had one good year and has not been a starter for an entire year. His contact was in line with a mid 1st round draft choice so what's the problem? GB had to suffer through his first 2 years for which he was grossly overpaid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted April 5, 2006 Umm...who cares how much the cap hit would be. We are talking about pure business ethics not monetary values. What is the difference between creating a big cap hit..and not getting paid enough. They are both the same thing. And, don't give the arguement the contract says anythign about holding out. Actually, you are right...it says nothing about it...so a player can do it just as easily as a team can cut someone. Ummm...yes...it does say something about "holding out"...in a manner of speaking. Holding out is putting a a player in breach of contract...but nice try. Who cares how much the cap hit would be? Where do I talk about the cap hit in that situation? The only cap I talked about was McNair talking about a different situation. As I said yesterday then they should have cut him...and let him move on....If a guy is part of your team currently then I think its a classless move.... So what if they are negotiating his deal down....Maybe the Titans shouldnt have given the BS backloaded retarded amount in the first place and then they wouldnt be in this situation Maybe they shouldnt have given him that contract. Im not totally defending the move. Smart move...not the classiest thing...but smart given his injury history. Im simply disagreeing with the comparison to Elway and Favre. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lennie75 0 Posted April 5, 2006 Ummm...yes...it does say something about "holding out"...in a manner of speaking. Holding out is putting a a player in breach of contract...but nice try. Who cares how much the cap hit would be? Where do I talk about the cap hit in that situation? The only cap I talked about was McNair talking about a different situation. Maybe they shouldnt have given him that contract. Im not totally defending the move. Smart move...not the classiest thing...but smart given his injury history. Im simply disagreeing with the comparison to Elway and Favre. Nice try...manner of speaking...someone is avoiding the facts!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blackgums100 0 Posted April 5, 2006 Walker is not an established player, he had one good year and has not been a starter for an entire year. His contact was in line with a mid 1st round draft choice so what's the problem? GB had to suffer through his first 2 years for which he was grossly overpaid. My god man, are you really that stupid? Haven't we beat this horse enough? Walker was on the verge of becoming a star and 90% of this board realized that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted April 5, 2006 Nice try...manner of speaking...someone is avoiding the facts!! Not at all. The fact remains that Favre is withing the rules of his contract. A player that holds out...is in breach of his contract. Next question... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crestwood 0 Posted April 5, 2006 Walker is not an established player, he had one good year and has not been a starter for an entire year. His contact was in line with a mid 1st round draft choice so what's the problem? GB had to suffer through his first 2 years for which he was grossly overpaid. why dont you people understand that in the nfl players get paid based on potential, NOT on past accomplishments? there a reason why, come contract time, a 26 yr old players who have only played well for one season usually get paid much more then a 31 yr old player whose been to a few probowls Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdon 28 Posted April 5, 2006 I don't think he can be shouted loud enough that the Javon Walker story is the exact example why players should hold out. he plays, he gets hurt, and now he can't get as much money. Farve is an ass plain and simple... however, as a lions fan I hope he comes back for years to come. I know Dre bly does too. jdon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 546 Posted April 5, 2006 My god man, are you really that stupid? Haven't we beat this horse enough? Walker was on the verge of becoming a star and 90% of this board realized that. Well, call me stupid then, too, because I agree with the original poster. Peerless Price and Germane Crowell were on the verge of becoming "stars" too....signed fat contracts after only one good season, and promptly sucked. I don't think one good season proves you're on the verge of anything. Two good seasons proves a lot. And, Walker was making first round draft pick money....not exactly pocket change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joefry 0 Posted April 6, 2006 Well, call me stupid then, too, because I agree with the original poster. Peerless Price and Germane Crowell were on the verge of becoming "stars" too....signed fat contracts after only one good season, and promptly sucked. I don't think one good season proves you're on the verge of anything. Two good seasons proves a lot. And, Walker was making first round draft pick money....not exactly pocket change. Excellent point. Also...Do the Packers get their money back for last year when he was out with a torn acl? Not to be a dik, but it is his knee that got tore up. Wrs get tackled all the time but not all are prone to having torn acls. Another point about whiny atheletes...for every guy that is underpaid, there are two more that are grossly overpaid. Guess what Walker and Harper? All Gms know this and that is why you are getting squat. Unless your name is TO, and a team will sign you regardless of any baggage, you are screwed. Just wait...the Packers are not screwing around with this, if he follows through on his threats, he may as well retire, they are not going to budge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted April 6, 2006 My god man, are you really that stupid? Haven't we beat this horse enough? Walker was on the verge of becoming a star and 90% of this board realized that. No I am not stupid! I watched every game Javon Walker played as a pro and know his contribution to the team. The key to your statement is "on the verge of being a star" which means he was not a star yet. I agree with that. why dont you people understand that in the nfl players get paid based on potential, NOT on past accomplishments? there a reason why, come contract time, a 26 yr old players who have only played well for one season usually get paid much more then a 31 yr old player whose been to a few probowls Rookies get paid on potential veterans get paid on performance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crestwood 0 Posted April 6, 2006 No I am not stupid! I watched every game Javon Walker played as a pro and know his contribution to the team. The key to your statement is "on the verge of being a star" which means he was not a star yet. I agree with that.Rookies get paid on potential veterans get paid on performance. all players get paid on potential in the nfl. as a veteren, you're potential is pretty much already known and you dont have that many years left for peak performance, hence they get paid less then an up and comer thats shows some potential. nobody in the nfl gets paid off of past performance anymore (unless you sign with the redskins. deion sanders, bruce smith, etc. )i know it might not seem fair, but i dont make the rules, thats just the way it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
escobante 0 Posted April 6, 2006 I am just wondering if ownership moves like the Titans make anyone change their thoughts on holdouts?? I haven't really formed an opinion yet...but it is definately making me think!!!!! Why is it so bad for J. Walker, T.O., or H. Ward to hold out?? Or, why is it bad for B. Favre to wait and make a decision?? If ownership can tell you to renegotiate your contract or send you packing. I just wanted to hear some people's opininos!! walker has the right to hold out and not get paid. no one is saying he doesn't. the team has a right not to pay more. there is a contract in place, pure and simple. maybe some players get better deals, but fairness isn't an issue. a contract is a written and signed agreement. it is what it is, no more no less. no one made moral or value judgements about walker's hold out. favre made his own self interested criticisms and pundits commented on its usefullness or advantage/disadvantage, but reasonable people weren't saying he was a jerk or anything. to's situation was disimilar in so many ways. he caught flak because in general he is an ass and not very personable. people made moral or value judements regarding his comments and behavior, not the request for a new contract. pundits criticised the wisdom of paying him more or not, but his right to request more money wasn't begrudged him. lets face it. these are adults who are making millions of dollars a year playing a game. they should be able to handle the percieved emotional slights of being told "we can't take a chance on you injuring yourself". they didn't lie to mac9, he knew already that they are not going to retain him with his current contract. there is no reason for him to feel slighted. and i'm sure he knows that. it is probably just posturing by his agent. if his feelings are hurt because of this, then i have less respect for him (he is one of my favorite players). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
