Two very clear cut examples

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

Michael Vick and Reggie Bush.

 

I can't believe how many people are down on these guys' abilities. My take... it's all because of fantasy football, and it's sad how a freaking little game ruins actual value.

 

Admittedly, the jury is still out on Bush. But for those who think that he is going to fail in his coaches eyes are focking retarded. The guy has skills. He may not be a fantasy monster (which I think he will be in due time), but for the people saying he can't do this and he can't do that... well you all are simply retarded. I say who cares... look what he CAN do. So what if he can't run inside. Last time I checked the Saints have a guy that can. Here's what I see:

 

I already see the best player in open space in the league. I know that may be a little premature, but I honestly can't think of a better player. Maybe LT... but no one else. His combination of vision, speed, acceleration and balance is not something this league has ever seen. Name a better player in that respect. 3rd down back my arse. He is a freakin weapon of mass destruction.

 

As for Michael Vick... Sure he may not terrify defensive backfield's with his arm. But the guy terrifies entire defenses and coaches with his legs. Not some of them... but all of them. He alters game plans. He opens up lanes. Last time I checked the ability to run the football is one of the most important aspects in football. The Falcons have led the league in rushing for two years straight. While Warrick Dunn does deserve credit for that.. so does Vick. Both directly for his runs, and more importantly, indirectly because defenses are forced to stay disciplined in their lanes because of Vick.

 

Both of these guys will burn you if you aren't disciplined every play. And anyone else who thinks anything else is closing their eyes to some really good football players.

[ShaneFalco 0]

on all points

[IndyTom 0]

Excellent points.

 

Troy Aikman used to fit this mold as well - great QB, went to the Dance a few times - but lacked the sexy fantasy football stats.

 

This is also why the "fan vote" towards the Pro Bowl count so little as an actual percentage. The NFL deosn't want fans who wear fantasy football goggles to determine who deserves to go each year.

[Franknbeans 46]

post this on a REAL football site

[The Moose 0]

This goes both ways, too. Guys who only focus on Fantasy Football may not realize had bad players like Aaron Brooks are.

[Eriadoc 4]

post this on a REAL football site

 

I was going to say something like this. You make some good points, Ram, but I think maybe you're overlooking the fact that many of us make our comments on here as they specifically pertain to FF. While I don't think Reggie Bush is going to be a consistent FF force this year, and therefore not worth my second round pick, I do think Bush will have an impact on the field with the Saints. How much is yet to be determined, but he's just not worth a high FF pick, to me.

 

If we were picking a REAL football team, I'd consider Bush a lot higher, obviously.

[Fizzelps 0]

Michael Vick and Reggie Bush.

 

I can't believe how many people are down on these guys' abilities. My take... it's all because of fantasy football, and it's sad how a freaking little game ruins actual value.

 

Admittedly, the jury is still out on Bush. But for those who think that he is going to fail in his coaches eyes are focking retarded. The guy has skills. He may not be a fantasy monster (which I think he will be in due time), but for the people saying he can't do this and he can't do that... well you all are simply retarded. I say who cares... look what he CAN do. So what if he can't run inside. Last time I checked the Saints have a guy that can. Here's what I see:

 

I already see the best player in open space in the league. I know that may be a little premature, but I honestly can't think of a better player. Maybe LT... but no one else. His combination of vision, speed, acceleration and balance is not something this league has ever seen. Name a better player in that respect. 3rd down back my arse. He is a freakin weapon of mass destruction.

 

As for Michael Vick... Sure he may not terrify defensive backfield's with his arm. But the guy terrifies entire defenses and coaches with his legs. Not some of them... but all of them. He alters game plans. He opens up lanes. Last time I checked the ability to run the football is one of the most important aspects in football. The Falcons have led the league in rushing for two years straight. While Warrick Dunn does deserve credit for that.. so does Vick. Both directly for his runs, and more importantly, indirectly because defenses are forced to stay disciplined in their lanes because of Vick.

 

Both of these guys will burn you if you aren't disciplined every play. And anyone else who thinks anything else is closing their eyes to some really good football players.

 

 

 

Ummmmm...isn't this a Fantasy Football website? What else would we care about.

 

Fantasy football adds much more to the sport of football than taking anything away from it. Get a clue already.

[Prof Dr Hase 0]

OK, so Fantasy Football isn't REAL football. Is that it?

And to think we needed Vick and Bush to open our eyes?

As an immigrant tourist, I can tell you first hand, Fantasy Football has made watching REAL football so much more exciting. Picture in Picture, 8 games on a single Flat Screen. Here goes Vick, there goes Bush, and here throws Eli, and there catches TO. What's the score? I'm down by 6 points, come on Willie, run!

What could be better than that? Well, maybe the Coors Light Twins could be there for some off-the field attention, but besides that? Not much!

So, even if Vick and Bush aren't your first choices and spend more times benched than starting for your team, there are still great to watch. Regardless.

 

I love Direct TV.

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

post this on a REAL football site

 

 

Ummmmm...isn't this a Fantasy Football website? What else would we care about.

 

Fantasy football adds much more to the sport of football than taking anything away from it. Get a clue already.

 

 

Actually, last time I checked... there are many discussions here about real football. I guess we need to take all the NFL betting, division / superbowl winner, and funny stories that have nothing to do with fantasy football away because that's all that matters

 

 

I realize there are many here are posting in regards to fantasy football. However, there are definitely those that post about players about real football and actually think that these players aren't good. This post is directed at them. This post is about those who are saying Bush will be a third down back, that Vick is a terrible QB, etc.

[sanders 0]

Michael Vick and Reggie Bush.

 

I can't believe how many people are down on these guys' abilities. My take... it's all because of fantasy football, and it's sad how a freaking little game ruins actual value.

 

Admittedly, the jury is still out on Bush. But for those who think that he is going to fail in his coaches eyes are focking retarded. The guy has skills. He may not be a fantasy monster (which I think he will be in due time), but for the people saying he can't do this and he can't do that... well you all are simply retarded. I say who cares... look what he CAN do. So what if he can't run inside. Last time I checked the Saints have a guy that can. Here's what I see:

 

I already see the best player in open space in the league. I know that may be a little premature, but I honestly can't think of a better player. Maybe LT... but no one else. His combination of vision, speed, acceleration and balance is not something this league has ever seen. Name a better player in that respect. 3rd down back my arse. He is a freakin weapon of mass destruction.

 

As for Michael Vick... Sure he may not terrify defensive backfield's with his arm. But the guy terrifies entire defenses and coaches with his legs. Not some of them... but all of them. He alters game plans. He opens up lanes. Last time I checked the ability to run the football is one of the most important aspects in football. The Falcons have led the league in rushing for two years straight. While Warrick Dunn does deserve credit for that.. so does Vick. Both directly for his runs, and more importantly, indirectly because defenses are forced to stay disciplined in their lanes because of Vick.

 

Both of these guys will burn you if you aren't disciplined every play. And anyone else who thinks anything else is closing their eyes to some really good football players.

 

As far as I see it you got 1 out of 2. Bush looks like he will be a top 5 back in the near future. Obviously he is still just a rookie and very young. Give him another year or two and he should be on of the top backs in the league with the skill he has.

 

Now I totally disagree with you on Vick. Yes the ability to run the football is one of the most important aspects of football. What's even bigger than that? The ability to move the chains. If a defense does not have to rescpect the pass or the run the other one will suffer greatly. If Vick cannot hit an open receiver or his receivers can't get open for him to throw to when they are only covered by one guy then they are only going to be able to run the football against the lesser teams in the league. Vick NEEDS to be able to move the chains with his arm as well as his legs if the Falcons are going to get to the Superbowl. He can throw the ball like a laser beam if he needs to but he has to do a better job putting touch on the ball and getting rid of the ball to open receivers. If he can't do that then it won't matter how fast he is because there will be 8 guys at least clogging up the run and spying on his scramble.

[Fizzelps 0]

I can't believe how many people are down on these guys' abilities. My take... it's all because of fantasy football, and it's sad how a freaking little game ruins actual value.

 

 

How is their value being ruined in the real world of football? Or did you mean that their "FANTASY" value is going down? If so, this would make your statement somewhat pointless, as you are talking about fantasy football.

 

All bickering aside, I do think that Reggie Bush is going to be something special in the both of the football worlds, at some point. Probably not this year, fantasy speaking. However, I am actually excited to watch him play this year, and I am a die-hard Chiefs fan.

 

 

 

PS...I love you.

[Chronic Husker 85]

Amen.

 

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.p...21333&st=40

 

Look at how many jackasses slammed Vick until I came in. After I came in....

 

 

<crickets>

[Striker99 0]

great post

[JT 137]

Michael Vick and Reggie Bush.

 

I can't believe how many people are down on these guys' abilities. My take... it's all because of fantasy football, and it's sad how a freaking little game ruins actual value.

 

Admittedly, the jury is still out on Bush. But for those who think that he is going to fail in his coaches eyes are focking retarded. The guy has skills. He may not be a fantasy monster (which I think he will be in due time), but for the people saying he can't do this and he can't do that... well you all are simply retarded. I say who cares... look what he CAN do. So what if he can't run inside. Last time I checked the Saints have a guy that can. Here's what I see:

 

I already see the best player in open space in the league. I know that may be a little premature, but I honestly can't think of a better player. Maybe LT... but no one else. His combination of vision, speed, acceleration and balance is not something this league has ever seen. Name a better player in that respect. 3rd down back my arse. He is a freakin weapon of mass destruction.

 

As for Michael Vick... Sure he may not terrify defensive backfield's with his arm. But the guy terrifies entire defenses and coaches with his legs. Not some of them... but all of them. He alters game plans. He opens up lanes. Last time I checked the ability to run the football is one of the most important aspects in football. The Falcons have led the league in rushing for two years straight. While Warrick Dunn does deserve credit for that.. so does Vick. Both directly for his runs, and more importantly, indirectly because defenses are forced to stay disciplined in their lanes because of Vick.

 

Both of these guys will burn you if you aren't disciplined every play. And anyone else who thinks anything else is closing their eyes to some really good football players.

 

You've been an unabashed Reggie Bush fan since day 1. That's great. But dismissing anyone that disagrees with your view of the guy as 'retarded' shows a lack of respect, maturity, vocabulary, and cognitive skill.

 

Reggie Bush has done nothing...nothing...in the NFL. In college he played vs some defenses without a single NFL caliber player. That's not to say that he won't be a good or even great pro. But for every Sanders and Sayers there have been a dozen Lawrence Phillips and Rashaan Salaams, players that were dominant at the college level but flopped in the pros. Those of us that have seen the star du jour come and go are a bit more reserved in our coronation of guys that have earned nothing. Personally, I think he'll provide some great highlights, but I don't think he's the guy you build a team around. Only time will tell.

 

Know why it's so hard to come up with another NFL player that looks so good 'in space'? Because 'space' doesn't present itself very often in the NFL. The players are too big, fast, experienced, the schemes and preparation too thorough. As great as LT or SA is, how often do you see them with the type of crease or open field that an elite college RB sees most Saturdays? Rarely.

 

As for Vick, I can't remember any complaints about the guys legs or running ability, here or elsewhere. It's his arm that is open to critique. And if the job of a QB is to lead his team to victories, with wins worth more than stats, he still has a long way to go. He also hasn't displayed the ability to stay healthy and on the field, which is one of the first things you want from your star players.

 

It's a shame that you feel that fantasy football has hurt enjoyment of the game. It hasn't in my case. This from a guy that has always loved the game and didn't start playing fantasy until my mid-30's. In fact, it's made both college and pro football more enjoyable, trying to see that talent that might be next year's sleeper. And I really don't care if anyone else agrees with my evaluation of a player before hand. I hope they don't! It's AFTER they've done something on the field that it's time to crow.

[Savage Beast 1]

Vick is not a good QB, he's a good RB. If Vick was immoble like Bledsoe for example, he could'nt even make the roster of an arena football team. Vick is a below average passer, trapped inside of a RB's body.

[texasmouth 1]

How does fantasy football ruin the "value" of anyone except in fantasy football?

 

Stupid thread.

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

How is their value being ruined in the real world of football? Or did you mean that their "FANTASY" value is going down? If so, this would make your statement somewhat pointless, as you are talking about fantasy football.

 

All bickering aside, I do think that Reggie Bush is going to be something special in the both of the football worlds, at some point. Probably not this year, fantasy speaking. However, I am actually excited to watch him play this year, and I am a die-hard Chiefs fan.

PS...I love you.

 

 

How does fantasy football ruin the "value" of anyone except in fantasy football?

 

Stupid thread.

 

 

My bad. I guess I should have stated it better. Fantasy football ruins fans' perceived value of players. In plainer terms... people think great players are sh!tty (or vice versa as someone pointed out).

 

 

 

 

You've been an unabashed Reggie Bush fan since day 1. That's great. But dismissing anyone that disagrees with your view of the guy as 'retarded' shows a lack of respect, maturity, vocabulary, and cognitive skill.

 

Reggie Bush has done nothing...nothing...in the NFL. In college he played vs some defenses without a single NFL caliber player. That's not to say that he won't be a good or even great pro. But for every Sanders and Sayers there have been a dozen Lawrence Phillips and Rashaan Salaams, players that were dominant at the college level but flopped in the pros. Those of us that have seen the star du jour come and go are a bit more reserved in our coronation of guys that have earned nothing. Personally, I think he'll provide some great highlights, but I don't think he's the guy you build a team around. Only time will tell.

 

Know why it's so hard to come up with another NFL player that looks so good 'in space'? Because 'space' doesn't present itself very often in the NFL. The players are too big, fast, experienced, the schemes and preparation too thorough. As great as LT or SA is, how often do you see them with the type of crease or open field that an elite college RB sees most Saturdays? Rarely.

 

As for Vick, I can't remember any complaints about the guys legs or running ability, here or elsewhere. It's his arm that is open to critique. And if the job of a QB is to lead his team to victories, with wins worth more than stats, he still has a long way to go. He also hasn't displayed the ability to stay healthy and on the field, which is one of the first things you want from your star players.

 

It's a shame that you feel that fantasy football has hurt enjoyment of the game. It hasn't in my case. This from a guy that has always loved the game and didn't start playing fantasy until my mid-30's. In fact, it's made both college and pro football more enjoyable, trying to see that talent that might be next year's sleeper. And I really don't care if anyone else agrees with my evaluation of a player before hand. I hope they don't! It's AFTER they've done something on the field that it's time to crow.

 

 

Definitely putting some words in my mouth.

 

What I am saying is that in Vick's case... he is a game changing great football player, but a lot of FF fans don't think so because he is not a great fantasy player. I know one thing FOR SURE, he does not suck. Passing the football... maybe; playing football... not a chance. If you want me to find post where someone says this, I'll be happy to do so.

 

In Bush's case... he has given every indication that he will be a great fantastic football player. Yet people are saying he won't be, often because of reasons related to fantasy football. I said, he has not proved anything yet... but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore what every player, coach and anyone else with their eyes open sees. Yes, I believe you are retarded to not see that Bush will be a great football player. It is a certainty in my mind*

 

*(career ending injury aside).

[esoitl 0]

the funny thing about Vick is that he isjust in a horrible system...

look at his numbers from his first year starting

2936 - 16 - 8

777 - 8

 

the guy accounted for 3700+ yards and 24 TDs

thats not a bad year at all, especially for someone who only previously started 2 games

after Reeves left and the system changed everything went to hell, i cant ait to see Duckett go somewhere else and tear the hell out of defenses

 

Reeves was really building a great offense there but got dismantled and kicked out IMO for no apparant reason.... one more year and they would have been great to watch

 

 

o well

[Junkie 0]

You've been an unabashed Reggie Bush fan since day 1. That's great. But dismissing anyone that disagrees with your view of the guy as 'retarded' shows a lack of respect, maturity, vocabulary, and cognitive skill.

 

Reggie Bush has done nothing...nothing...in the NFL. In college he played vs some defenses without a single NFL caliber player. That's not to say that he won't be a good or even great pro. But for every Sanders and Sayers there have been a dozen Lawrence Phillips and Rashaan Salaams, players that were dominant at the college level but flopped in the pros. Those of us that have seen the star du jour come and go are a bit more reserved in our coronation of guys that have earned nothing. Personally, I think he'll provide some great highlights, but I don't think he's the guy you build a team around. Only time will tell.

 

Know why it's so hard to come up with another NFL player that looks so good 'in space'? Because 'space' doesn't present itself very often in the NFL. The players are too big, fast, experienced, the schemes and preparation too thorough. As great as LT or SA is, how often do you see them with the type of crease or open field that an elite college RB sees most Saturdays? Rarely.

 

As for Vick, I can't remember any complaints about the guys legs or running ability, here or elsewhere. It's his arm that is open to critique. And if the job of a QB is to lead his team to victories, with wins worth more than stats, he still has a long way to go. He also hasn't displayed the ability to stay healthy and on the field, which is one of the first things you want from your star players.

 

It's a shame that you feel that fantasy football has hurt enjoyment of the game. It hasn't in my case. This from a guy that has always loved the game and didn't start playing fantasy until my mid-30's. In fact, it's made both college and pro football more enjoyable, trying to see that talent that might be next year's sleeper. And I really don't care if anyone else agrees with my evaluation of a player before hand. I hope they don't! It's AFTER they've done something on the field that it's time to crow.

 

I agree, to some extent, but I also feel that Bush will be something special before it's all done. If I were to bet whether he will turn out to be more like Sanders, or more like Phillips, I'd put money on the likeness to Sanders. The guy undoubtably has skills. I won't, however, annoint him as the greatest ever before he does squat. I think he will eventually be great for the NFL and for fantasy football, but time will tell.

 

Vick is, well, Vick. I think he is overated as an NFL QB. He's not a great passer, however he can make tremendous plays with his feet. What he gives the Atlanta Falcons, he gives to your fantasy football team. Occasionally, he can single-handedly win you a game, but you'd probably be better off with a great passer, or a QB with a more balanced attack, like McNabb or Culpepper in the long run.

 

I guess I just don't see the point of this thread.

[Gepetto 988]

I agree with the original post. It is ashame that some people perceive Vick to not be a good QB. He is, just check his winning percentage, and watch Falcons games in their entirity and you'll understand. As for Bush, it's too early to know if he's the real deal or not.

[kutulu 1,551]

It's hard for me to comment without knowing your scoring system.

[JT 137]

What I am saying is that in Vick's case... he is a game changing great football player, but a lot of FF fans don't think so because he is not a great fantasy player. I know one thing FOR SURE, he does not suck. Passing the football... maybe; playing football... not a chance. If you want me to find post where someone says this, I'll be happy to do so.

 

Vick's career record as a starter is 31-19-1. Vs teams under .500 when they played Atlanta he's 24-6. That leaves 7-13-1 vs teams .500 or better. Which games results is he changing? So far, his greatness as a football player is limited to his ability to run in the open field. That's not enough to call a QB a great player.