When is it ok to NOT pick a RB in the 1st round and go with Peyton Manning?

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

It's a money league, 10 teams, I have the 4th pick. Mannings point value from last season is 745 points, LTs value from last season was 467 points. Now given that I am NOT getting LT at the 4th spot, should I go ahead and take the guy who's worth nearly double the TOP RB? The next best QB was Palmer who's last year value was 612pts. It only goes down from there. Thoughts?

 

Will this totally ruin my team by going with Manning #1 overall, should I continute the standard 2 RBs to start the draft??

 

I'm thinking even if I take Manning to start, I can take two RBs in round 2 and 3 and still end up with decent RBs.

 

Have you ever drafted in a league where QBs are so valuable? If so does, does it all equal out in the end? By equal out I mean...If I do take RBs first, and someone else grabs Manning, will the fact that my RBs are score slightly higher than their ever overcome the fact that Manning is worth so much?

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

oops, had to edit to say I AM NOT getting LT with my pick...typo..

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

I hate to bump this after only a few minutes, but the draft starts in 15 minutes and I could really use some expert insight.

[whithja 0]

I hate to bump this after only a few minutes, but the draft starts in 15 minutes and I could really use some expert insight.

 

The combination of best RB first (and maybe second) and QB later should net more points. I think Palmer is going to light it up this year. You could get him or Brady later the round 2.

[GridIronAssassin#1 0]

It's ok to draft Peyton Manning mid round 1 when you are getting 6 points per touchdown, the same as the running back position. Basically in standard default yahoo leagues where the settings are not changed, it's fine to draft Peyton Manning 5th overall. I guess you could make an argument for drafting him #1 overall as well, it's just that Carson Palmer, Brees and Tom Brady should be able to get picked up in the 2nd round. So if you could get LT, LJ, Alexander, or Jackson in round 1, then get Palmer, Brady, or Brees in rnd 2, that might be better than having Peyton.

 

 

But the jury is now out on Brees after a pitiful week one.

[bahama llama 0]

Manning is always a viable option if the sure stud backs are gone. With all of the RB 1st round busts last year the guy who grabbed Manning at 10 (out of 12) and followed it with 2 backs won the title. Those of use who went with Ronnie Brown, Cadillac and other busts had a hard time keeping up. If you get 6 per TD then he's an even better option, he's not going to lose it for you but what you do in 2-5 rounds will, so make sure you can grab some viable running backs. The guy who grabbed him first this year then went WR/WR so he has Harrison and Colston, but his starting rb's are Jamal Lewis and Ahman Green. It's a risky move....

[mdm_1971 0]

is it possible that you trade down? if you had a pick like 8, 9 or 10 i could see picking manning but really if you take him @4 you are going to end up w/ backs that should be no better then #2s ...... i dont recall a year in which manning was picked high in the 1st round the team going on to have a championship year.......good luck....also how is manning worth almost double of LT....do you guys count pass attempts?

[The Hood 9]

It's a money league, 10 teams, I have the 4th pick. Mannings point value from last season is 745 points, LTs value from last season was 467 points. Now given that I am NOT getting LT at the 4th spot, should I go ahead and take the guy who's worth nearly double the TOP RB? The next best QB was Palmer who's last year value was 612pts. It only goes down from there. Thoughts?

 

Will this totally ruin my team by going with Manning #1 overall, should I continute the standard 2 RBs to start the draft??

 

I'm thinking even if I take Manning to start, I can take two RBs in round 2 and 3 and still end up with decent RBs.

 

Have you ever drafted in a league where QBs are so valuable? If so does, does it all equal out in the end? By equal out I mean...If I do take RBs first, and someone else grabs Manning, will the fact that my RBs are score slightly higher than their ever overcome the fact that Manning is worth so much?

I am totally against spending high picks on a QB but with this scoring system I think you have to take Peyton there.

 

And what in hell is giving QB's so many points in your scoring system???

[Jeremy 0]

If the scoring system is such that Manning outscored LT by that much last year, I don't think there's much hope that Manning falls to you at #4 anyway. But if he does, you should take him.

[kutulu 1,554]

How come your drafting after the season already started?

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

I was wrong I had pick number 6, but I did end up getting Peyton Manning with my first pick. The reason QBs are worth so much is because we get 1 point per completion...I didn't set up the league.

 

We also get one point per reception for WRs, TEs and RBs...my team ended up looking like.

 

Starting:

 

QB: P Manning

WR: Reggie Wayne

WR: Terrell Owens

WR: Anquan Boldin

TE Vernon Davis

RB Reggie Bush

RB Cadillac Williams

K Rackers

Def/St: Chargers

 

Bench:

QB: E Manning

RB: Brandon Jackson

RB: Adrian Peterson, Minn

WR: Mark Clayton

WR: Calvin Johnson

TE: Jason Witten

DEF Cardinals

 

And considering that the league starts this week: I already have 80+ points with my Manning/Wayne combo...should be an easy week 1 victory.

 

The draft was suppose to be this past Wed, but the ESPN Server crashed...it moved us to today.

[Quickolas1 80]

your 7 team league that has you cheating after the year has started = stupid

[Jedi Sensei 17]

your 7 team league that has you cheating after the year has started = stupid

[AnaheimRams 28]

FYI...

 

It absolutely does not matter in the slightest how many points QB's score vs RB's or WR's or TE's. Makes no difference. None. Nada.

 

the value in a player comes when you compare the standard deviation amongst his position.

 

You could be in a league that gives QB's 1 point per yard, 1 point per attempt, 5 points per completion and 10 points per touchdown. It doesn't matter.

 

RB's will ALWAYS be the most valuable position in FF because of their relative rarity and significant fall off in production between the 1st and the 20th guy.

 

There are 30ish clear-cut number one starting QB's in the NFL. There are probably only 15 or so non RBBC RB's... prolly less. Yet... we start 2 running-backs.

 

Logic 101.

[rdrs4life 0]

FYI...

 

It absolutely does not matter in the slightest how many points QB's score vs RB's or WR's or TE's. Makes no difference. None. Nada.

 

the value in a player comes when you compare the standard deviation amongst his position.

 

You could be in a league that gives QB's 1 point per yard, 1 point per attempt, 5 points per completion and 10 points per touchdown. It doesn't matter.

 

RB's will ALWAYS be the most valuable position in FF because of their relative rarity and significant fall off in production between the 1st and the 20th guy.

 

There are 30ish clear-cut number one starting QB's in the NFL. There are probably only 15 or so non RBBC RB's... prolly less. Yet... we start 2 running-backs.

 

Retard 101.

 

fyp

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

your 7 team league that has you cheating after the year has started = stupid

 

Actually, as I stated in the first post it is a 10 team league. Also, I did not ask for any stupid opionions on the why or why nots my league started late, it was out of the Commish's control and it's not cheating when everyone could have drafted Manning before I did, it's a draft.

 

I have noticed that 90% of the responses/replies on FFToday have turned into smart ass remarks and personal attacks. Does anyone know of any other FF Forums that are better "managed" and keep out the 12 year old internet tough guys?

[Perennial Contender 18]

FYI...

 

It absolutely does not matter in the slightest how many points QB's score vs RB's or WR's or TE's. Makes no difference. None. Nada.

 

the value in a player comes when you compare the standard deviation amongst his position.

 

You could be in a league that gives QB's 1 point per yard, 1 point per attempt, 5 points per completion and 10 points per touchdown. It doesn't matter.

 

RB's will ALWAYS be the most valuable position in FF because of their relative rarity and significant fall off in production between the 1st and the 20th guy.

 

There are 30ish clear-cut number one starting QB's in the NFL. There are probably only 15 or so non RBBC RB's... prolly less. Yet... we start 2 running-backs.

 

Logic 101.

 

 

 

What he said I went against my own philosophy and I took Manning in the first round last year and didn't make the playoffs for the first time ever. NEVER again will I take a QB in the 1st round. Never!!

[skinsrule05 30]

FYI...

 

It absolutely does not matter in the slightest how many points QB's score vs RB's or WR's or TE's. Makes no difference. None. Nada.

 

the value in a player comes when you compare the standard deviation amongst his position.

 

You could be in a league that gives QB's 1 point per yard, 1 point per attempt, 5 points per completion and 10 points per touchdown. It doesn't matter.

 

RB's will ALWAYS be the most valuable position in FF because of their relative rarity and significant fall off in production between the 1st and the 20th guy.

 

There are 30ish clear-cut number one starting QB's in the NFL. There are probably only 15 or so non RBBC RB's... prolly less. Yet... we start 2 running-backs.

 

Logic 101.

 

I agree with you 100% for a typical league but the OPs league is really off the wall. In my league last year the top QB (Manning) beat the 2nd QB (Brees) by 36 points (10%). But in this guys league the top qb (manning) beat the 2nd qb (Palmer) by 133 points (20%). I don't understand how manning is getting rewarded so much more than the other QBs (maybe they get points for wins or being on INdy) but that does shove up manning's value. After seeing his draft results you can see it is a weird league based on the team he was able to get even in a smaller 10 team league.

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

I agree with you 100% for a typical league but the OPs league is really off the wall. In my league last year the top QB (Manning) beat the 2nd QB (Brees) by 36 points (10%). But in this guys league the top qb (manning) beat the 2nd qb (Palmer) by 133 points (20%). I don't understand how manning is getting rewarded so much more than the other QBs (maybe they get points for wins or being on INdy) but that does shove up manning's value. After seeing his draft results you can see it is a weird league based on the team he was able to get even in a smaller 10 team league.

 

Also, QBs start getting "bonus points" at 200yds, and more at 250 and 300yds...and so own...which explains why the 4000yd Passers are ranked well above those who arent.

[Jeremy 0]

FYI...

 

It absolutely does not matter in the slightest how many points QB's score vs RB's or WR's or TE's. Makes no difference. None. Nada.

 

the value in a player comes when you compare the standard deviation amongst his position.

 

You could be in a league that gives QB's 1 point per yard, 1 point per attempt, 5 points per completion and 10 points per touchdown. It doesn't matter.

 

RB's will ALWAYS be the most valuable position in FF because of their relative rarity and significant fall off in production between the 1st and the 20th guy.

 

There are 30ish clear-cut number one starting QB's in the NFL. There are probably only 15 or so non RBBC RB's... prolly less. Yet... we start 2 running-backs.

 

Logic 101.

 

The difference between Manning and the 10th best QB in this scoring system has got to be huge. The difference between Manning and Palmer according to the author of the thread is 133 points or about 9 fantasy points a game. If he goes on your premise that it's still all about the RB, and goes RB-RB in the first 2 rounds, then the difference between Manning and whoever he gets is probably going to be the equivalent of what? 15 or 20 points a game? That's a good game for a RB by himself. You can afford when a little less at RB when you have that big at advantage at QB.

[AnaheimRams 28]

I agree with you 100% for a typical league but the OPs league is really off the wall. In my league last year the top QB (Manning) beat the 2nd QB (Brees) by 36 points (10%). But in this guys league the top qb (manning) beat the 2nd qb (Palmer) by 133 points (20%). I don't understand how manning is getting rewarded so much more than the other QBs (maybe they get points for wins or being on INdy) but that does shove up manning's value. After seeing his draft results you can see it is a weird league based on the team he was able to get even in a smaller 10 team league.

 

Definitely see your point... and I could be VERY wrong about my RB love with close analysis of his leagues scoring. However... my original point is still accurate. You cannot compare QB's to WR's to RB's to determine value. A players value is derived by his advantage over other players at his position. That's a fact.

 

I will add... I don't comprehend how the scoring in that league can create such a major difference between QB's. Statistically... there just simply isn't that much difference. Unless they're deduction 5 or 10 points per interception or something, I don't see how manning can be that much more valuable than the next 3 or 4 QB's that can be had 3 or 4 rounds later.

 

Last year... Manning only had 6 more completions than Brees... and 5 more TD's... while throwing for 20 fewer yards. How does that possibly equate to being well over a 100 point difference for the season? And Palmer finishing second 133 points back?? He had 30 fewer completions, 300 fewer yards and more int's than Bree's... while only throwing two more TD's. How does that work?

[skinsrule05 30]

Definitely see your point... and I could be VERY wrong about my RB love with close analysis of his leagues scoring. However... my original point is still accurate. You cannot compare QB's to WR's to RB's to determine value. A players value is derived by his advantage over other players at his position. That's a fact.

 

I will add... I don't comprehend how the scoring in that league can create such a major difference between QB's. Statistically... there just simply isn't that much difference. Unless they're deduction 5 or 10 points per interception or something, I don't see how manning can be that much more valuable than the next 3 or 4 QB's that can be had 3 or 4 rounds later.

 

Last year... Manning only had 6 more completions than Brees... and 5 more TD's... while throwing for 20 fewer yards. How does that possibly equate to being well over a 100 point difference for the season? And Palmer finishing second 133 points back?? He had 30 fewer completions, 300 fewer yards and more int's than Bree's... while only throwing two more TD's. How does that work?

 

I agree. It doesn't make any sense why one QB would be that much higher. It also does not make sense that Palmer was the number two in his league when Brees was the #2 in every league I have seen. I mean Brees beat Palmer in every statistical category (400 more yds, 32 more completions, 2 less ints) except TDs (palmer had 2 more). That means TDs must be worth a lot more than 6 pts to make up for all the other shortcomings.

[skinsrule05 30]

Also, QBs start getting "bonus points" at 200yds, and more at 250 and 300yds...and so own...which explains why the 4000yd Passers are ranked well above those who arent.

 

That still doesn't justify the difference. All of the top qbs should be getting those bonuses. Brees threw for more yards than manning and he isn't even #2. I don't understand the bump that Manning is getting. He only threw for 5 more TDs but scored 133+ more points

[De Novo 0]

The combination of best RB first (and maybe second) and QB later should net more points. I think Palmer is going to light it up this year. You could get him or Brady later the round 2.

You completely ignored the scoring system. You like RB-RB because the magazines tell you to. Manning is a no-brainer at #2 overall in that league. With that system, 5 QBs should go in the 1st 9 picks.

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

For all the people questioning WHY P Manning is worth so many more points, here's the scoring system for passing:

 

Each Completion 1

 

TD Pass 6

 

Every 25 passing yards 1

 

300-399 yard passing game 3

 

400+ yard passing game 5

 

2pt Passing Conversion 2

 

Interceptions Thrown -2

 

That put Manning at 746 pts for last season, with Mark Bulger Running 2nd at 687. And the 10th QB in this system is...Chad Pennington with 516 points...thats a 230pt drop from 1st QB to 10th QB

 

Running Backs: LT was worth 492pts with the 10th RB being Ladell Betts who slides in at 235pts. Thats a 257 Pt drop.

 

But lets keep things in perspective, I Had the 6th pick, So I was not going to get LT, I would be lucky to get Maurice Jones Drew in this PPR League who last year was worth 269pts, I ended up taking Reggie Bush with my 2nd pick who was worth 259pts, a 10 point drop in order to get a QB who is worth 230pts more than a QB I would have ended up with a few rounds later...WHy would I do that to pick a RB in the 6th spot, who is only worth 10pts more than a RB I could get the next round?

 

I wouldn't....Now if I had the #1 Pick, sure LT would be the smart choice, since there is even a large point gap between him and the 10th RB, but I had the 6th Pick...so guess who was gone

 

1. LT

2. LJ

3. Gore

4. ALexander

5. Addai

 

See my point?

[Pimptaddy 0]

Manning was worth roughly 360 pts in leagues that awarded 6 points per TD. How is he worth 700?

 

It should also be noted that LT was the top scorer last year with roughly 470 points. This guy must have some goofy rules for Manning to outscore LT when LT had 31 total TDs and 1700 yards.

[skinsrule05 30]

Manning was worth roughly 360 pts in leagues that awarded 6 points per TD. How is he worth 700?

 

It should also be noted that LT was the top scorer last year with roughly 470 points. This guy must have some goofy rules for Manning to outscore LT when LT had 31 total TDs and 1700 yards.

 

He definitely has messed up rules. And he seems just as confused by them. In his original post he said Palmer was the 2nd QB last year and than later he said it was Bulger. Meanwhile in the scoring system he listed Brees was ahead of both of those guys in all of those statistics and he was ahead of Manning in a lot of them. Yet he didn't even make #2 or the revised #2.

[AnaheimRams 28]

You completely ignored the scoring system. You like RB-RB because the magazines tell you to. Manning is a no-brainer at #2 overall in that league. With that system, 5 QBs should go in the 1st 9 picks.

 

Take your "because the magazines tell us to" and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

It's simple math.

 

And the OP posted numbers that prove my point.

 

In his league last season...

 

The difference between the top 10 QB's and the top 10 RB's is virtually equal. However... there are TWENTY starting RB's... therefore... the deviation for QB's and RB's will be vastly different... which is EXACTLY what I said and EXACTLY why RB's are the most important position.

 

 

Maybe you should go pick up a magazine and use it as a refresher course.

[De Novo 0]

Take your "because the magazines tell us to" and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

It's simple math.

 

And the OP posted numbers that prove my point.

 

In his league last season...

 

The difference between the top 10 QB's and the top 10 RB's is virtually equal. However... there are TWENTY starting RB's... therefore... the deviation for QB's and RB's will be vastly different... which is EXACTLY what I said and EXACTLY why RB's are the most important position.

Maybe you should go pick up a magazine and use it as a refresher course.

The difference between LT and the #10 RB is irrelevant because LT is not available for him to draft. The relevant comparison is the best RB left on the board vs. what you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. I'm willing to guarantee the difference isn't >200 points.

[AnaheimRams 28]

The difference between LT and the #10 RB is irrelevant because LT is not available for him to draft. The relevant comparison is the best RB left on the board vs. what you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. I'm willing to guarantee the difference isn't >200 points.

 

 

First...

 

You analyze the standard deviation of the amount of players that will be starting in the league at a certain position. From the info given, the deviation between the top 20 RB's can assumed to be much greater than the top 10 RB's.

 

You analyze each players merits relative to his position. If LT, S. Jax and Addai are off the board, you analyze the standard deviation of the who's left. In this league... if the top 10 QB's and top 10 RB's have a nearly identical standard deviation... I would guess that the standard deviation between the 5th or 6th RB would still be greater than Mannings.

 

Second... it doesn't make any difference.

 

IMHO... the OP is full of crap, because his numbers don't jive and the story is changing. So... using his examples for any kind of statistical analysis is silly... and a total waste of our time.

 

This from the jerk-off that was biatching about the mods taking out the trash in this place.