Is Barber the Man now in Dallas?

[jerryskids 5,401]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I was at the Cards game Sunday and on biz travel since.

 

Barber: 14/89/2

Jones: 15/32/0

 

Is Dallas finally going to give Barber the ball more?

[HilltopperVike 0]

Quote from Wade Phillips off ESPN:

 

"I see everybody's point that Marion's doing some great things for us and that's what we hoped he'll do," Phillips said. "But (Jones) is doing some good things for us, too. And we're featuring (Barber) on the 1-yard line. You're going to get more touchdowns when you get it on the 1. But we feel like he's strong in that already and he's proven that already. He's done it last year. But I think it's working the way we're doing it."

[GobbleDog 822]

It was discussed last week and it'll probably be a re-occurring thread all season. For good reason too - nobody seems to know.

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

Phillips is either

A: blind

B: stupid

C: Retarded

D: all of the above

 

The numbers are glaring enough, but the game film speaks volumes about YAC, drive, push, heart and everything else MBIII has that JJones doesn't.

 

Coach is saying the right things now, but if that 15/32 crap keeps up I suspect JJones will become an afterthought in that offense. A couple more games where MBIII dramatically overshadows JJones and I fail to see how Phillips can't make the switch to MBIII as the featured back. It boggles the mind that he hasn't already.

[Me_2006 14]

Maybe he realizes the team is winning and simly doesn't want to change the strategy. I mean, it's POSSIBLE that for some odd reason MBIII may not respond well to being given the job and that drive may not still be there. If it's working and the team is playing as well as the Cowboys are on offense right now, why risk messing it up or overworking a guy?

 

If it ain't broke...

[mainev3nt 0]

Wade phillips doesn't consider the MBIII fantasy owners when designing a offensive run scheme... it sure is working now, so why would he change it... jones is a speed back is good in the open field and at the start of the game... once he starts to get the opposing def tired, then the pound back MBIII comes in and takes advantage of that... sure is working.

[HenryChinaski 1]

Maybe he realizes the team is winning and simly doesn't want to change the strategy. I mean, it's POSSIBLE that for some odd reason MBIII may not respond well to being given the job and that drive may not still be there. If it's working and the team is playing as well as the Cowboys are on offense right now, why risk messing it up or overworking a guy?

 

If it ain't broke...

 

But JJ is broke..

 

 

MB3=Beast.

 

He might be the guy to bring home some championships this year..

[Me_2006 14]

But JJ is broke..

MB3=Beast.

 

He might be the guy to bring home some championships this year..

Agreed. But maybe Barber plays so well because he feels like he has a "They're finally letting me in, I'm gonna show em" mentality. It's very possible that if he was given the starting job that not only do you lose what occasional productivity you may get from Jones due to lack of confidence etc., but you may damage the mindset of MBIII as well because the pressure will then be on him. It's got to be much easier being the "man we should start him instead" guy like Norwood or Jacobs or Barlow or a list of other guys who have been good backups. Not exactly the same situations, but you understand the comparison.

 

MBIII is putting up solid fantasy numbers (he's my #2, waited on RBs and loaded up on WRs) and the Cowboys are winning. Risking it for greed's sake isn't a move I would make as a new coach. Sure it may work out great for everyone involved, but things are going pretty well right now too, and risking it seems unnecessary to me.

[HenryChinaski 1]

Wade phillips doesn't consider the MBIII fantasy owners when designing a offensive run scheme... it sure is working now, so why would he change it... jones is a speed back is good in the open field and at the start of the game... once he starts to get the opposing def tired, then the pound back MBIII comes in and takes advantage of that... sure is working.

 

This would be true, except for the fact that it's wrong.

 

It sounds nice and all.. But Julius isn't running "good" at any time. He's had a few decent runs.. But mostly very, very mediocre.

 

Julius Jones is averaging 3.2 YPC (0 TDs)

Marion Barber is averaging 6.2 YPC (3 TDs)

 

They alternate every couple of drives. How is that waiting for the defense to be tired for Marion?

 

That's not how it's going this year.

 

Julius gets a little work, putters around some, then Marion comes in and sparks the offense.

 

2 yards a carry by JJ is hardly making the defense tired. If anything it hypes the defense up - it makes them feel like they're doing something.

 

When MB3 comes in - the offense gets hyped. He energizes the entire offense, it's so apparent. He has everything that a RB could need: power, speed, cut-back ability, excellent vision, quickness, agility. pass catching ability,pass blocking.. EVERYTHING.

 

Julius Jones has a nice 40 time - that's about it. He has nothing on Marion, other than that. Yeah, JJ can play. But not when he's on the same field as MB3.

 

It's not even close. Marion Barber III will be starting very soon. My opinion is that Wade Phillips knows this, but is just giving a little coach speak to keep Julius' head in the game.

 

Notice that Wade Phillips used the word "great" when describing Marion. He used "good" for Julius. I think that sums it up perfectly.

 

All the people that are naysayers in this discussion - are just the people that drafted Julius Jones and missed the boat on the next great RB.

 

I'm glad I didn't..

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

Wade phillips doesn't consider the MBIII fantasy owners when designing a offensive run scheme... it sure is working now, so why would he change it... jones is a speed back is good in the open field and at the start of the game... once he starts to get the opposing def tired, then the pound back MBIII comes in and takes advantage of that... sure is working.

 

While this is an interesting hypothesis and sounds logical enough, the stats don't bear it out.

 

according to the stats, it certainly is broken. JJones has putrid numbers compared to MBIII and if you've watched both of them play this season it's pretty obvious who the more talented and hungry of the two has been/is.

 

Now, is it possible that MBIII has greater success because he's running against already worn down defenses in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter? I concede that's possible, but of the two, MBIII has a real knack for running out of trouble - he reverses direction on a dime, and has moves that cause defenders to miss. He also has the power and leg drive to slip arm tackles and delivers a mean straight arm (as in the one he pushed the defender to the ground with on his 1 yd-turned-TD run against NYG).

 

JJones runs the basic play, focuses way too hard on not fumbling and collapses on contact. he fails to read the defense and often runs right into a pile - as though he'll miraculously break through 600 lbs of linemen. MBIII by comparison has the vision to see the trouble ahead and the quick thinking to change course which he turns into big gains. Several times in this weeks game he turned a bad play call sure-fire loss into a 2-5 yard gain. JJones has proen to be incapable of this.

 

I would think that with the stats they have put up respectively that MBIII would at least warrant starting consideration to see if he can perform in the 1st quarter.

 

The Cowboys might even score a break-away TD or two earlier in the game that way. JJones certainly hasn't, and considering it's his "speed" that's supposed to be his advantage in this RBBC, I'm perplexed as to why there hasn't been a change made.

 

I don't know if we'll see this all year if the stat trend continues. And bear in mind I used to be really high on JJones - I really liked him in college and thought he was a future star in the NFL. I have 100% reversed course on that evaluation. MBIII is clearly and obviously the better RB.

[HenryChinaski 1]

I don't know if we'll see this all year if the stat trend continues. And bear in mind I used to be really high on JJones - I really liked him in college and thought he was a future star in the NFL. I have 100% reversed course on that evaluation. MBIII is clearly and obviously the better RB.

 

I'm glad that I thought I about it.. I wanted to give you props. You called that MB3 was ready to break a long TD run..

 

You said something about it during the week... I don't even remember the thread, but I remember hoping that you were right.

 

Anyway.. Just wanted to acknowledge your correct predicition. I sure enjoyed it...

[aportanenko 0]

It's just a matter of time guys, I happen to be a JJ owner (my RB4), Barber will get the nod after a few more better games than that piece of crap I own OR a loss by the Cowboys, I drafted this shitspank late figuring he will play his best for a new contract somewhere next year. He's a waste of space, literally. Can't drop him, can't start him.

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

I'm glad that I thought I about it.. I wanted to give you props. You called that MB3 was ready to break a long TD run..

 

You said something about it during the week... I don't even remember the thread, but I remember hoping that you were right.

 

Anyway.. Just wanted to acknowledge your correct predicition. I sure enjoyed it...

 

thanks!

[Me_2006 14]

thanks!

Your call on MBIII was indeed quite good, but I'm not as surprised at the good FF insight as I am with your awesome link in your sig.

 

 

Wow. It was such a duh scenario that I expected a link to your team or something you were trying to support. Turns out it's as good as advertised.

 

What line of work are you in? It should be sales.

[HenryChinaski 1]

You know what's crazy?

 

The league that I own MB3 in:

 

My Top League (Local 12 Team) (Keeper) Distance Scoring -- Marion Barber is the No. 1 RB right now with 40 points.

 

I know it's only been 2 weeks, but I'm enjoying it..

[Me_2006 14]

You know what's crazy?

 

The league that I own MB3 in:

 

My Top League (Local 12 Team) (Keeper) Distance Scoring -- Marion Barber is the No. 1 RB right now with 40 points.

 

I know it's only been 2 weeks, but I'm enjoying it..

Definitely.

 

Ya know, I'm not a FF vet by any means (3rd year), but this year seems very, very unusual so far. Very few studs are living up to the billing. I know there are always a few, and not to hijack or anything, but can anyone remember a year with so many booms and busts (loose use of the word there, I know, lay off.) this early in the year?

[HenryChinaski 1]

Definitely.

 

Ya know, I'm not a FF vet by any means (3rd year), but this year seems very, very unusual so far. Very few studs are living up to the billing. I know there are always a few, and not to hijack or anything, but can anyone remember a year with so many booms and busts (loose use of the word there, I know, lay off.) this early in the year?

 

Yeah it's very strange.

 

It makes me worried actually.. All my teams are doing really well, I worry certain trends will stop - and I will fall.

 

I know one thing though - It's the year of the Stud WR. They are really lighting it up. In all my leagues, whoever has Steve Smith is 2-0.

[cowboyz 2]

The Cowboys might even score a break-away TD or two earlier in the game that way. JJones certainly hasn't, and considering it's his "speed" that's supposed to be his advantage in this RBBC, I'm perplexed as to why there hasn't been a change made.

JJ was able to do it on a run against the saints early in the game.

 

i think what the cowboys will do is let JJ start, see if the oline is opening up big holes. if jj is running well, they'll stick with him, otherwise they'll work in MB3.

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

but I'm not as surprised at the good FF insight as I am with your awesome link in your sig.

Wow. It was such a duh scenario that I expected a link to your team or something you were trying to support. Turns out it's as good as advertised.

 

It's a hellofarack. I love when she picks up the sign that says, "they're real" - she's pretty dang cute too.

[MeanMrMustard 0]

I don't care who it is...as long as they can march it down the field to get Folk within FG range, or even a PAT attempt, i'm a happy guy!

 

[ravenwood 1]

The Cowboys are 2-0 and averaging 41 points per game. Why change a thing because whatever they're doing now is working.

[msudavedawg 5]

Duh.

 

Since Last season. (Exhibit A: 16 TD's in '06)

[aggiewildlife 0]

It's too bad the hapless Cowboys coaching staff doesn't have you guys running the show since you clearly know more than they do about their offense.

[9-Route 0]

i really dont care how they set it up in dallas. all i know is that the way it is now, works very well, and gets me nice points from a guy i drafted 4th rd when others A) drafted laurence "baloney", cedric "bumson", maurice "joked you", and "tom's ass" jones too early and, laughed at me.

 

i'll take it.

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

It's too bad the hapless Cowboys coaching staff doesn't have you guys running the show since you clearly know more than they do about their offense.

 

This is such a tired post...I mean, it's already been done in this very topic - get some new material.

 

If you've watched these games you'd understand where we're coming from. Obviously the Cowboys are doing well and winning games. But they could be doing even better, and against some teams they'll need to. If you watched those games, you saw the success they had when MBIII was in the backfield, sustaining drives. The one time they had them both in the backfield, they faked to JJones and threw to Barber. Because the pass was thrown backwards, when no one else on the field even flinched, MBIII dove onto the ball to cover it up. Smart player on top of his ability. But the point is that the last two games drives with MBIII were far and away more successful. And opponents respect the run more which helps get the big play in the passing game.

 

Oh, and by the way - Romo had more rushing yards on 4 carries than JJones had on 15. Barber on 14 carries had 53 more yards and 2 more TDs than Jones.

 

He had a nice reception, and if you get JJones out in space he can do some good things. But I think Parcells got into his head. He was brought into Dallas to be the man, tapped his helmet and got in the doghouse, then had the ankle injury, then the shoulder blade - I think he's tentative. He doesn't look very elusive - b but he's quick.

 

So not saying I'm better or smarter than anyone on the Dallas coaching staff...but they have more film and the same stats that I have - if they are these intelligent football minds as you suggest, one would assume they'd come to the obvious conclusion that MBIII is the better RB for that offense. Now I understand the whole "machine ain't broke" argument, I do. And hey - maybe it's superstition. Because the machine isn't broken, but it sure does run better with the right fuel in it. And MBIII is super premium unleaded with an octane boost tossed in, while JJones is running on ethanol with a governor on the throttle.

 

As I said - if this keeps up, it would shock no one to see MBIII's role increase. He's an exciting player - a sparkplug. Someone suggested he energizes the whole offense - I've noticed that as well. Sooner or later Coach Phillips has to notice it. I suspect he already has. He did the Tiger Woods "fist pump" after his 4th and 1 15 yd 4 broken tackle TD. This week he was cheering on the sideline for the 40 yard TD on 1 play. He's just a big play back. And in my humble opinion he's underutilized. Any team with a weapon like that who gives 1/2 the carries to a guy who's mediocre by comparison seems ill advised. So all due respect to coach, he might be a moron.

[Me_2006 14]

This is such a tired post...I mean, it's already been done in this very topic - get some new material.

 

If you've watched these games you'd understand where we're coming from. Obviously the Cowboys are doing well and winning games. But they could be doing even better, and against some teams they'll need to. If you watched those games, you saw the success they had when MBIII was in the backfield, sustaining drives. The one time they had them both in the backfield, they faked to JJones and threw to Barber. Because the pass was thrown backwards, when no one else on the field even flinched, MBIII dove onto the ball to cover it up. Smart player on top of his ability. But the point is that the last two games drives with MBIII were far and away more successful. And opponents respect the run more which helps get the big play in the passing game.

 

Oh, and by the way - Romo had more rushing yards on 4 carries than JJones had on 15. Barber on 14 carries had 53 more yards and 2 more TDs than Jones.

 

He had a nice reception, and if you get JJones out in space he can do some good things. But I think Parcells got into his head. He was brought into Dallas to be the man, tapped his helmet and got in the doghouse, then had the ankle injury, then the shoulder blade - I think he's tentative. He doesn't look very elusive - b but he's quick.

 

So not saying I'm better or smarter than anyone on the Dallas coaching staff...but they have more film and the same stats that I have - if they are these intelligent football minds as you suggest, one would assume they'd come to the obvious conclusion that MBIII is the better RB for that offense. Now I understand the whole "machine ain't broke" argument, I do. And hey - maybe it's superstition. Because the machine isn't broken, but it sure does run better with the right fuel in it. And MBIII is super premium unleaded with an octane boost tossed in, while JJones is running on ethanol with a governor on the throttle.

 

As I said - if this keeps up, it would shock no one to see MBIII's role increase. He's an exciting player - a sparkplug. Someone suggested he energizes the whole offense - I've noticed that as well. Sooner or later Coach Phillips has to notice it. I suspect he already has. He did the Tiger Woods "fist pump" after his 4th and 1 15 yd 4 broken tackle TD. This week he was cheering on the sideline for the 40 yard TD on 1 play. He's just a big play back. And in my humble opinion he's underutilized. Any team with a weapon like that who gives 1/2 the carries to a guy who's mediocre by comparison seems ill advised. So all due respect to coach, he might be a moron.

I was waiting on you to handle that post. Wasn't going to touch it, knew you'd come back to it.

 

I'm surprised at the lack of sarcasm and general style lol. You've toned it down. It's almost spooky lol.

 

Have you turned over a new leaf? One that involves an awesome boob show with every post?

[Melissa Stark 1]

Quote from Wade Phillips off ESPN:

 

"I see everybody's point that Marion's doing some great things for us and that's what we hoped he'll do," Phillips said. "But (Jones) is doing some good things for us, too

 

 

 

Well at least JJ is doing some things right

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

I was waiting on you to handle that post. Wasn't going to touch it, knew you'd come back to it.

 

I'm surprised at the lack of sarcasm and general style lol. You've toned it down. It's almost spooky lol.

 

Have you turned over a new leaf? One that involves an awesome boob show with every post?

 

Indeed - life's too short for drama, especially on the Interwebs.

 

As for the boobs, I will try to have that section updated weekly. The hunt begins.

[Me_2006 14]

Indeed - life's too short for drama, especially on the Interwebs.

 

As for the boobs, I will try to have that section updated weekly. The hunt begins.

Ha, it's your call. I always found it humorous at how serious some people take this whole thing and how defensive they tend to get. Plus, sarcasm is the best form of comedy (other than mimes. that stuff is hilarious.)

 

 

and WEEKLY? You should start charging a fee lol.

[aggiewildlife 0]

This is such a tired post...I mean, it's already been done in this very topic - get some new material.

 

If you've watched these games you'd understand where we're coming from. Obviously the Cowboys are doing well and winning games. But they could be doing even better, and against some teams they'll need to.

 

So, like I said, you think that you know what's better for their offense than they do. As for "new material", I wasn't exactly trying to be creative and cool, but merely mentioning the facts. But since you know best, I defer...

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

So, like I said, you think that you know what's better for their offense than they do. As for "new material", I wasn't exactly trying to be creative and cool, but merely mentioning the facts. But since you know best, I defer...

 

Thank you for recognizing my genius. It so often goes unappreciated.

 

And indeed - if the writing's on the wall, I am capable of reading it. I would hope that for Cowboys fans sake that Phillips has his reading glasses handy.

 

I look at MBIII and see a lot of what Frank Gore has. Not exactly the same skill set, but the same vision and ability to bounce it off the pile and slip the arm tackles that bring down guys like JJones. And when I look at what Gore brings to the table, and compare it to what Hicks brings to the table, I see an exciting back with a "wow!" quality to him and I see a mediocre back in Hicks who gets the occasional burst through a hole but mostly goes down to arm tackles. And then I look at the cowboys and the analogy is complete: Having Jones as the starter and MBIII the situational back is like having Frank Gore as your backup to Maurice Hicks. And every time Gore touches the ball something exciting happens. And every time Hicks touches the ball it's mediocre with a few bright spots but nothing that makes you go "wow, did you see that?!?!" Yet Hicks remains the starter and Gore the backup. Well you'd be silly to do that, right?

 

Right.

 

And that's what I think of Phillps right now. I think of him and all I can do is think and and because it don't make sense - and I'm not actually a genius, but I know enough to know that a smarter man than me should recognize that "wow!" ability that Barber has and Jones don't. And a real real smart man would know that the more you put the ball into that guy's hands, the more likely it is that those "wow!" plays happen with greater frequency. It's like the lotto - you can't win if you don't play. How smart do I have to be to recognize that concept? So there's Philllips starting Maurice Hicks while Gore waits for his situations, and because some of us point that out, we must be so arrogant as to presume what's best for the Cowboys right? Because the record is all that matters, right? I guess I'm not allowed to criticize my Niners offense either since they're 2-0?

 

Anyway, I am sure that the cream is rising to the top here - and if, IF MBIII continues to outpace Jones like this, Dallas is going to have to make a move. I wonder if this is Jerry Jones call for paying JJones. Maybe he's preventing the move to save face (though with that face...euuugh)

[Savage Beast 1]

Julius Jones is averaging 3.2 YPC (0 TDs)

Marion Barber is averaging 6.2 YPC (3 TDs)

 

Nuff said.

[aggiewildlife 0]

For those who don't think Barber benefits from getting more action late in the games when defenses have been worn down, look at his splits by quarter from this year and last year.

 

2006:

1st quarter: 9 rushes, 37 yards, 2 TDs

2nd quarter: 34 rushes, 126 yards, 2 TDs

3rd quarter: 42 rushes, 206 yards, 2 TDs

4th quarter: 50 rushes, 285 yards, 8 TDs

 

2007:

1st quarter: 4 rushes, 17 yards, 0 TDs

2nd quarter: 6 rushes, 31 yards, 2 TDs

3rd quarter: 5 rushes, 29 yards, 0 TDs

4th quarter: 10 rushes, 77 yards, 1 TD

 

Furthermore, his yards per carry has improved after half time as well. In 2006, his ypc before the half was 3.8 and after half, 5.3. In 2007, it's 4.8 before half, 7.1 after half.

 

So you can see that rather than the notion that he's really just switching off series with JJ, he's really getting much more action late in the game than early in the game. As a result, he has more yards, more yards per carry, and more TDs later in games than earlier.

 

Compare that against Jones. In 2006, his before half ypc was 4.1 and his after half ypc was 4.0. So he actually gained more yards per carry than did Barber earlier in games when the defense is fresh. After the half, Barber's splits were better, but I'd again argue that it has much to do with the fact that Barber is fresher at this point in the game. Jones' splits are lower so far this year, but so are Tomlinson's and I'm just spitballing here, but I doubt the Chargers are benching him anytime soon for Michael Turner (who has considerably more ypc than LT2)

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

For those who don't think Barber benefits from getting more action late in the games when defenses have been worn down, look at his splits by quarter from this year and last year.

 

2006:

1st quarter: 9 rushes, 37 yards, 2 TDs

2nd quarter: 34 rushes, 126 yards, 2 TDs

3rd quarter: 42 rushes, 206 yards, 2 TDs

4th quarter: 50 rushes, 285 yards, 8 TDs

 

2007:

1st quarter: 4 rushes, 17 yards, 0 TDs

2nd quarter: 6 rushes, 31 yards, 2 TDs

3rd quarter: 5 rushes, 29 yards, 0 TDs

4th quarter: 10 rushes, 77 yards, 1 TD

 

Furthermore, his yards per carry has improved after half time as well. In 2006, his ypc before the half was 3.8 and after half, 5.3. In 2007, it's 4.8 before half, 7.1 after half.

 

Stats are a funny thing. You paint an interesting picture, except you left out that his number of carries went up dramatically in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters. So it's not an even evaluation. With barber, one "wow" play can go for say, a 40 yd TD on 1st and 10 breaking the 1 tackle to beat for a TD. Sound familiar?

 

I'd bet that most of his biggest runs came with opportunity, regardless of what point in the game it was. If you run the right offense against the right defense with a RB who can move and with power, you have more opportunity for success. MBIII had more opportunity in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters - seems logical enough to conclude that if he had the same opportunity earlier in games that he'd have roughly the same rate of success and as a result would increase his ypc. Isn't that also a conclusion that could be drawn from these numbers?

 

Your theory also doesn't account for JJones lack of success against those same "worn down" defenses in the 3rd and 4th quarters - he got the ball late in the game on Sunday too.

4th quarter - Barber

2-2-MIA 25 (14:19) 24-M.Barber right tackle to MIA 19 for 6 yards (52-C.Crowder).

1-15-MIA 24 (13:11) 24-M.Barber left tackle pushed ob at MIA 14 for 10 yards (29-T.Daniels).

2-5-MIA 14 (12:44) 24-M.Barber left end to MIA 14 for no gain (54-Z.Thomas, 24-R.Hill).

3-20-MIA 29 (11:10) (Shotgun) 9-T.Romo pass incomplete short right to 24-M.Barber [98-M.Roth]. (had that pass not been way off target MBIII would have had another TD)

4-20-MIA 29 (11:03) (Field Goal formation) 6-N.Folk 47 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-91-L.Ladouceur, Holder-14-B.Johnson

 

Score! 3 pts for Dallas.

 

 

Now Jones, also 4th quarter against an even more worn down defense

1-10-DAL 24 (9:17) 21-J.Jones left guard to DAL 24 for no gain (52-C.Crowder). PENALTY on DAL-82-J.Witten, Illegal Crackback, 12 yards, enforced at DAL 24 - No Play.

1-22-DAL 12 (8:42) 21-J.Jones up the middle to DAL 14 for 2 yards (91-V.Holliday, 98-M.Roth).

3-3-DAL 31 (7:08) 21-J.Jones right tackle to DAL 33 for 2 yards (98-M.Roth). Measurement for first down.

4-1-DAL 33 (6:29) (Punt formation)

 

Next series, Jones/MBIII mix, TO TD

1-10-MIA 39 (5:44) 21-J.Jones up the middle to MIA 35 for 4 yards (98-M.Roth).

3-6-MIA 35 (4:56) 24-M.Barber right end to MIA 34 for 1 yard (91-V.Holliday).

 

Next series

(Onside Kick formation) 3-J.Feely kicks onside 10 yards from MIA 30 to MIA 40. 42-A.Henry (didn't try to advance) to MIA 40 for no gain (84-C.Chambers).

1-10-MIA 40 (3:26) 24-M.Barber right tackle for 40 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

6-N.Folk extra point is GOOD, Center-91-L.Ladouceur, Holder-14-B.Johnson.

DAL 37 MIA 20 Plays: 1 Possession: 0:09 - by the way, this is what I meant by a "wow" play.

 

Next series, run out the clock with JJones - wait, no...Tyson Thompson.

Dallas Cowboys at 02:53

1-10-MIA 30 (2:53) 21-J.Jones up the middle to MIA 29 for 1 yard (52-C.Crowder).

2-9-MIA 29 (2:07) 21-J.Jones right tackle to MIA 28 for 1 yard (54-Z.Thomas).

Two-Minute Warning

3-8-MIA 28 (2:00) 28-T.Thompson left tackle to MIA 25 for 3 yards (26-T.Tillman, 54-Z.Thomas).

Timeout #2 by MIA at 01:54.

4-5-MIA 25 (1:54) 28-T.Thompson right tackle to MIA 24 for 1 yard (54-Z.Thomas, 99-J.Taylor).

 

 

So by the time they got done chasing MBIII 40 yds down the field, I bet they were completely worn down. It should have been unfair to run Julius Jones at them they were so worn out. And JJones did nothing but get outrushed by Tyson Thompson.

 

I don't buy the "defenses worn down" theory entirely. I agree there's an element, but the RB still needs to exploit it. MBIII breaks those weak worn down tackles and JJones doesn't - to me it's that simple.

[jerryskids 5,401]

Thanks all for keeping this thread going.

 

Seems you are mostly seeing what I am, which is that Barber is clearly the better RB. The offense is more energized when he is in, IMO this is obvious since last year.

 

Unfortunately, none of you can comment on Wade seeing this and making Barber the Man. Not your fault, oh well... just a matter of time?

[aggiewildlife 0]

Stats are a funny thing. You paint an interesting picture, except you left out that his number of carries went up dramatically in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters. So it's not an even evaluation. With barber, one "wow" play can go for say, a 40 yd TD on 1st and 10 breaking the 1 tackle to beat for a TD. Sound familiar?

 

I'd bet that most of his biggest runs came with opportunity, regardless of what point in the game it was. If you run the right offense against the right defense with a RB who can move and with power, you have more opportunity for success. MBIII had more opportunity in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters - seems logical enough to conclude that if he had the same opportunity earlier in games that he'd have roughly the same rate of success and as a result would increase his ypc. Isn't that also a conclusion that could be drawn from these numbers?

 

Your theory also doesn't account for JJones lack of success against those same "worn down" defenses in the 3rd and 4th quarters - he got the ball late in the game on Sunday too.

4th quarter - Barber

2-2-MIA 25 (14:19) 24-M.Barber right tackle to MIA 19 for 6 yards (52-C.Crowder).

1-15-MIA 24 (13:11) 24-M.Barber left tackle pushed ob at MIA 14 for 10 yards (29-T.Daniels).

2-5-MIA 14 (12:44) 24-M.Barber left end to MIA 14 for no gain (54-Z.Thomas, 24-R.Hill).

3-20-MIA 29 (11:10) (Shotgun) 9-T.Romo pass incomplete short right to 24-M.Barber [98-M.Roth]. (had that pass not been way off target MBIII would have had another TD)

4-20-MIA 29 (11:03) (Field Goal formation) 6-N.Folk 47 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-91-L.Ladouceur, Holder-14-B.Johnson

 

Score! 3 pts for Dallas.

Now Jones, also 4th quarter against an even more worn down defense

1-10-DAL 24 (9:17) 21-J.Jones left guard to DAL 24 for no gain (52-C.Crowder). PENALTY on DAL-82-J.Witten, Illegal Crackback, 12 yards, enforced at DAL 24 - No Play.

1-22-DAL 12 (8:42) 21-J.Jones up the middle to DAL 14 for 2 yards (91-V.Holliday, 98-M.Roth).

3-3-DAL 31 (7:08) 21-J.Jones right tackle to DAL 33 for 2 yards (98-M.Roth). Measurement for first down.

4-1-DAL 33 (6:29) (Punt formation)

 

Next series, Jones/MBIII mix, TO TD

1-10-MIA 39 (5:44) 21-J.Jones up the middle to MIA 35 for 4 yards (98-M.Roth).

3-6-MIA 35 (4:56) 24-M.Barber right end to MIA 34 for 1 yard (91-V.Holliday).

 

Next series

(Onside Kick formation) 3-J.Feely kicks onside 10 yards from MIA 30 to MIA 40. 42-A.Henry (didn't try to advance) to MIA 40 for no gain (84-C.Chambers).

1-10-MIA 40 (3:26) 24-M.Barber right tackle for 40 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

6-N.Folk extra point is GOOD, Center-91-L.Ladouceur, Holder-14-B.Johnson.

DAL 37 MIA 20 Plays: 1 Possession: 0:09 - by the way, this is what I meant by a "wow" play.

 

Next series, run out the clock with JJones - wait, no...Tyson Thompson.

Dallas Cowboys at 02:53

1-10-MIA 30 (2:53) 21-J.Jones up the middle to MIA 29 for 1 yard (52-C.Crowder).

2-9-MIA 29 (2:07) 21-J.Jones right tackle to MIA 28 for 1 yard (54-Z.Thomas).

Two-Minute Warning

3-8-MIA 28 (2:00) 28-T.Thompson left tackle to MIA 25 for 3 yards (26-T.Tillman, 54-Z.Thomas).

Timeout #2 by MIA at 01:54.

4-5-MIA 25 (1:54) 28-T.Thompson right tackle to MIA 24 for 1 yard (54-Z.Thomas, 99-J.Taylor).

So by the time they got done chasing MBIII 40 yds down the field, I bet they were completely worn down. It should have been unfair to run Julius Jones at them they were so worn out. And JJones did nothing but get outrushed by Tyson Thompson.

 

I don't buy the "defenses worn down" theory entirely. I agree there's an element, but the RB still needs to exploit it. MBIII breaks those weak worn down tackles and JJones doesn't - to me it's that simple.

 

Look at the numbers again, and most of his positive stats are in the 4th quarter period. 9 of his 16 TD's, for instance, are in the 4th quarter. Same with his long runs, such as the 40 yard long TD last week near the end of the game. As for his "rate of success", that's the advantage of looking at ypc rather than total yards. It's a stat already corrected for opportunity (since it's an average), so ypc is very telling of what he's able to do with his chances, regardless of how many chances he gets. It's clear he makes more of his opportunities late in games. I think that fact combined with the fact that Jones's stats might be worse later in the game is indication that Barber is fresher at that point because he's had fewer carries than Jones at that point. If you have other alternative explanations, I'd like to hear them. Additionally, I don't think your carry-by-carry analysis of 1 game is a long-term enough data set that carries much weight.

[avandradejr 0]

I absolutely hate the fact that I have JJ on my team. As my RB2 at that. Fock me!

[Guest _my_2_cents_]

Look at the numbers again, and most of his positive stats are in the 4th quarter period. 9 of his 16 TD's, for instance, are in the 4th quarter. Same with his long runs, such as the 40 yard long TD last week near the end of the game. As for his "rate of success", that's the advantage of looking at ypc rather than total yards. It's a stat already corrected for opportunity (since it's an average), so ypc is very telling of what he's able to do with his chances, regardless of how many chances he gets. It's clear he makes more of his opportunities late in games. I think that fact combined with the fact that Jones's stats might be worse later in the game is indication that Barber is fresher at that point because he's had fewer carries than Jones at that point. If you have other alternative explanations, I'd like to hear them. Additionally, I don't think your carry-by-carry analysis of 1 game is a long-term enough data set that carries much weight.

 

This is simply put, you putting lipstick on a pig. Your theory is bunk. AVERAGE is just that - the average. It does not account for his having more opportunity - in fact, it is the opposite. It makes the number of carries moot where I believe it is highly relevant for a runner like MBIII where one carry can be a home run.

 

Thus (again) it stands to reason using your same numbers, that if Barber got more than 2-4 carries in the 1st quarter, that he'd hit a HR on one of those additional carries, which would increase his ypc in the 1st quarter.

 

How can you argue against this? Your theory is bunk - sorry.

[HenryChinaski 1]

This is simply put, you putting lipstick on a pig. Your theory is bunk. AVERAGE is just that - the average. It does not account for his having more opportunity - in fact, it is the opposite. It makes the number of carries moot where I believe it is highly relevant for a runner like MBIII where one carry can be a home run.

 

Thus (again) it stands to reason using your same numbers, that if Barber got more than 2-4 carries in the 1st quarter, that he'd hit a HR on one of those additional carries, which would increase his ypc in the 1st quarter.

 

How can you argue against this? Your theory is bunk - sorry.

 

Don't even bother arguing with that guy...

 

He is obviously just a disgruntled Julius Jones owner, that is just pissed off because he missed the boat. He's just grasping onto any last tiny strand of hope that JJ will start to perform again.

 

---------------

 

One thing's for sure though. Let's take away Marion Barber's carries. Let's take away all of his stats for a second. Even if there wasn't anyone to compare to Julius Jones - his stats would still be garbage. It's that simple. He doesn't have it anymore - regardless of who else is on the team.

 

It's not that Julius Jones just looks bad in comparison, because that's not the case. He just looks bad period, regardless of how great Marion Barber is.

[thePRO 78]

MBIII won't start this season. So J.J has started off bad. Personally, I don't want MBIII carrying the ball 25-30 times a game. I prefer it the way it is. Every once and awhile J.J will break a nice gain. But keeping both backs fresh for the end of the season and hopefully postseason will be critical. And they'll still be running great. Or atleast MBIII will!