t.j 35 Posted February 12, 2008 Player A Year 1 176-1113, 6.3 avg, 11 TD Year 2 284-1647, 5.8 avg, 14 TD Year 3 325-1830, 5.6 avg, 16 TD Player B Year 1 99-626, 6.3 avg, 3 TD Year 2 154-1168, 7.6 avg, 6 TD Year 3 133-1162, 8.7 avg, 11 TD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MTSkiBum 1,604 Posted February 12, 2008 because all college conferences are equal in defensive play and all college offensive lines are of the same skill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted February 12, 2008 because all college conferences are equal in defensive play Interesting response. Guess who the two players are? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted February 12, 2008 Don't you have to know who they played against when talking about college players? Stats mean nothing if you don't know the level of competition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted February 12, 2008 Don't you have to know who they played against when talking about college players? Certainly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Yes, they're running behind the same line, and they're facing the same defenses, but they were used in different ways, so even in this situation the stats aren't comparable, because the team was using them differently. Both are excellent backs, but I don't think you can really compare them so easily. (For those who haven't figured it out yet, the two are DMc and Felix Jones.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted February 12, 2008 Correct Lab. Player A is Arkansas RB Darren McFadden, Year 1 = 2005, Year 3 = 2007 Player B is Arkansas RB Felix Jones, Year 1 = 2005, Year 3 = 2007 You guys are making an awful lot of assumptions and voicing an awful lot of objections, considering that all I did was post their stats. What I was actually curious about was how much of McFadden's success might be attributable to the offense he is in (o-line, etc). I believe RBs are greatly overvalued in general. Obviously these stats only tell a little bit of the story, but they are interesting. My fear is that the Raiders are (Al Davis is) going to draft McFadden based on his speed, when the team has bigger needs at more important positions (i.e. DT and DE). I believe McFadden is going to be a very good NFL RB, but I'm not sold on him as the total package at RB and thus not sold on him as a likely elite RB. Nor do I place a great deal of importance on having an elite RB anyway. I do think McFadden's playing style is well-suited for the Raiders' blocking scheme, though, so I am open to the possibility that it could be a good pick. On the other hand, I think Jones' playing style is also a good fit for Oakland, so he might be a great alternate pick if he lasts to round 2. Anyway, I'm just looking for info that may or may not confirm or refute Run DMC's status as an elite prospect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MTSkiBum 1,604 Posted February 12, 2008 Anyway, my fear is that the Raiders are (Al Davis is) going to draft McFadden based on his speed, when the team has bigger needs at more important positions (i.e. DT and DE). I believe McFadden is going to be a very good NFL RB, but I'm not sold on him as the total package at RB and thus not sold on him as a likely elite RB. Nor do I place a great deal of importance on having an elite RB anyway. I'm just looking for info that may or may not confirm or refute his status as an elite prospect. As much flak as Al Davis has rightfully has recieved over the years, he usually spends his first round pick pretty wisely, Only Buchanon comes to mind as being worthless. TJ, have you heard whether they are going to resign their Center(Newberry) or their RT(Green)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Not that it's worth much, but my own instinct is that ... (1) DMc is absolutely an top-notch prospect fully worthy of a top-10 draft position. He will do very well in the NFL. (2) DMc will never ever (and could not possibly) satisfy the ridiculously high expectations some people are laying on him. (3) DMc will not be a flop, like many of the anti-DMc people are suggesting now that an anti-DMc backlash is in full swing. (4) If Oakland drafts DMc in the first round, they will be making a big mistake because they have much bigger needs. I think we're in agreement on most of this, with slight differences in how successful DMc ultimately will be (which is not that big a deal because so hard to predict). I assumed (incorrectly I guess) that you were comparing them because of the "Player A" / "Player B" thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted February 12, 2008 As much flak as Al Davis has rightfully has recieved over the years, he usually spends his first round pick pretty wisely, Only Buchanon comes to mind as being worthless.TJ, have you heard whether they are going to resign their Center(Newberry) or their RT(Green)? Well there's also Robert Gallery in the 1st-round disappointment category. Plus Tyler Brayton, Napoleon Harris, Derrick Gibson, and Sebastian Janikowski if you want to go back as far as 2000. I don't realy like the JaMarcus Russell pick either, another physical freak with questionable skills and work ethic. The jury is still definitely out on Fabian Washington as well, another speed guy. As for Newberry, it sounds like he wants to return and I think the Raiders will resign him. They have not been impressed with the development of his young(er) backup Jake Grove. I'm not sure how Cornell Green and the Raiders feel about each other. He probably wouldn't cost much to re-sign after missing most of the season due to injury and having been a journeyman player before that. I wouldn't be surprsied if he comes back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MTSkiBum 1,604 Posted February 12, 2008 Well there's also Robert Gallery in the 1st-round disappointment category. Plus Tyler Brayton, Napoleon Harris, Derrick Gibson, and Sebastian Janikowski if you want to go back as far as 2000. I don't realy like the JaMarcus Russell pick either, another physical freak with questionable skills and work ethic. The jury is still definitely out on Fabian Washington as well, another speed guy. As for Newberry, it sounds like he wants to return and I think the Raiders will resign him. I'm not sure how Cornell Green and the Raiders feel about each other. He probably wouldn't cost much to re-sign after missing most of the season due to injury and having been a journeyman player before that. I wouldn't be surprsied if he comes back. I dont know if i would call Gallery a bust, he was great at run blocking this year, and average at pass blocking, if they leave him in 1 spot he could really develop still, most lineman dont really start coming on till their late 20's anyways. Sebastian was the only really bad pick out of the group, every team gets busts in the first round. Are you sure that Harris and brayton were first round picks since 2000? Washington and Nnamdi Asomugha; 1 is a stud, 1 is a servicable corner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted February 12, 2008 Not that it's worth much, but my own instinct is that ... (1) DMc is absolutely an top-notch prospect fully worthy of a top-10 draft position. He will do very well in the NFL. (2) DMc will never ever (and could not possibly) satisfy the ridiculously high expectations some people are laying on him. (3) DMc will not be a flop, like many of the anti-DMc people are suggesting now that an anti-DMc backlash is in full swing. (4) If Oakland drafts DMc in the first round, they will be making a big mistake because they have much bigger needs. I think we're in agreement on most of this, with slight differences in how successful DMc ultimately will be (which is not that big a deal because so hard to predict). I assumed (incorrectly I guess) that you were comparing them because of the "Player A" / "Player B" thing. What are your thoughts on McFadden as far as finding the right hole, pushing the pile, finishing runs, receiving, toughness, and blocking? Basically everything other than long speed (which he obviously has more than enough of to spare). Your assumption had a lot more merit than the other assumptions that were made. I don't think he will be a flop. In fact if he comes to the Raiders I think he will put up excellent numbers. I am just not convinced that is going to help the Raiders win. Fargas had an outstanding yards per carry average, ran north and south, scratched and clawed for every extra inch, and was able to make plays with his speed as well. That was exactly what the offense needed. The defense is so bad at stopping the run and rushing the passer. I feel like having an RB who is the type of guy to inspire teammates with heart and toughness, that might help make those around him better. But a big-play type might just lead to inconsistency and frustration on a team with so many holes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t.j 35 Posted February 12, 2008 I dont know if i would call Gallery a bust, he was great at run blocking this year, and average at pass blocking, if they leave him in 1 spot he could really develop still, most lineman dont really start coming on till their late 20's anyways. Sebastian was the only really bad pick out of the group, every team gets busts in the first round. Are you sure that Harris and brayton were first round picks since 2000? Washington and Nnamdi Asomugha; 1 is a stud, 1 is a servicable corner. Well, I specifically called Gallery a disappointment rather than a bust, because many people consider a bust to be someone that can't hold a starting job in the league, which is fair. Gallery continues to start, but he's been demoted to LG, and has not become a great overall player yet. That's definitely disappointing for the #2 overall pick, with that kind of investment you are looking for a dominant tackle. The team's coaching hasn't helped him prior to last year, and there is reason to hope he'll keep getting better, but it was such a high price to pay. Harris was picked shortly after Buchanon in the first round in 2002. Brayton was picked right after Asomugha in 2003. Asomugha was a great pick for sure. Washington is a serviceable corner, I would agree with that assessment, but would hope for better than that with a mid-late 1st-rounder (#23 overall). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 0 Posted February 12, 2008 What are your thoughts on McFadden as far as finding the right hole, pushing the pile, finishing runs, receiving, toughness, and blocking? Basically everything other than long speed? I don't watch nearly enough college ball (and definitely no actual game film) to qualify me to give any opinion you should trust on those specifics. That's why I lurk on sites like this -- to look for informed opinions from people who do all that hard work (and hats-off to them!). I am just not convinced that is going to help the Raiders win. Fargas had an outstanding yards per carry average, ran north and south, scratched and clawed for every extra inch, and was able to make plays with his speed as well. That was exactly what the offense needed. The defense is so bad at stopping the run and rushing the passer. I feel like having an RB who is the type of guy to inspire teammates with heart and toughness, that might help make those around him better. But a big-play type might just lead to inconsistency and frustration on a team with so many holes. I agree with all this. Even if DMc were as better than LT2 and ADP, he wouldn't be enough by himself to salvage the Raiders in one season (or even a few). IMHO (for what little that's worth), the Raiders need to focus on lots of other weak spots (D-line and WR for example). Between Fargas, Rhodes, and Bush, they've got enough RB power to keep defenses honest and allow Russell to work, so no need for a splashy RB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
