Isnt it time to call Vinny Jackson a tier 1 reciever?

[columbuscft 0]

Produces every week and still low low end tier 2 reciever...I dont think so

[Frank M 181]

He's been $$ for me so far, produces like a #1.

[Chargersin08 0]

I'm convinced there is nobody better in the league right now. He catches everything.

[belichick's hoody 0]

I asked my Charger fan friend about him, says he's gonna be inconsistent.

 

He's looking good so far thru 3 games: 16-316-2, but he had a couple of nice 3 game stretches last season, too:

 

weeks 6-8: 13-236-3

weeks 10-13: 9-165-1

weeks 14-16: 18-348-2

week 17 and 2 playoff games: 4-96-1

 

On 3, off 4, on 3, off 3. Basically, we've seen this from his before and there's a chance that he cools off and disappoints the next few games.

 

Or maybe he puts it all together, has longer hot streaks, shorter cold streaks, and becomes a top 10 WR. But I think it's a couple games too early to annoint him as such.

[kmbryant09 1]

I asked my Charger fan friend about him, says he's gonna be inconsistent.

 

He's looking good so far thru 3 games: 16-316-2, but he had a couple of nice 3 game stretches last season, too:

 

weeks 6-8: 13-236-3

weeks 10-13: 9-165-1

weeks 14-16: 18-348-2

week 17 and 2 playoff games: 4-96-1

 

On 3, off 4, on 3, off 3. Basically, we've seen this from his before and there's a chance that he cools off and disappoints the next few games.

 

Or maybe he puts it all together, has longer hot streaks, shorter cold streaks, and becomes a top 10 WR. But I think it's a couple games too early to annoint him as such.

That is some good analysis, but we all know we cant predict future performance based on past stats.

 

The major factor that I think is in Jackson's favor is the mentality of the Chargers. They were a run-first team for so long, which I think lead to some of his inconsistencies. With the development of Rivers (who throws a damn pretty deep ball), and the downfall of their OLine and LT, this team is no longer a run-first team. In fact, they look to be one of the most pass-happy offenses this season.

 

Vincent Jackson is a physical beast. Maybe not quite in the mold of Fitz & Calvin & Moss, but he is 6'5 with a great vertical, great hands, and runs solid routes. I do think his production will continue throughout the season. Will he have 100 yards and a TD every game? No, nobody expects that...but I do think its safe to predict an 80 catch, 1,300 yard season with 10-12 TDs. I'm guessing he finishes as a top 7 WR and is drafted as a 2nd or 3rd rounder next year.

[columbuscft 0]

I cashed in when I took him 5th round

[Jaxie 0]

Yeah I got him in the 5th as well. Cha-ching!

[djrockstar 0]

CONTRACT YEAR + LT2 in major decline + Gates/Chambers not stealing the most looks + Favorable schedule = A big bump in 2009 VJ production over 2008.

[Chargersin08 0]

I asked my Charger fan friend about him, says he's gonna be inconsistent.

 

He's looking good so far thru 3 games: 16-316-2, but he had a couple of nice 3 game stretches last season, too:

 

weeks 6-8: 13-236-3

weeks 10-13: 9-165-1

weeks 14-16: 18-348-2

week 17 and 2 playoff games: 4-96-1

 

On 3, off 4, on 3, off 3. Basically, we've seen this from his before and there's a chance that he cools off and disappoints the next few games.

 

Or maybe he puts it all together, has longer hot streaks, shorter cold streaks, and becomes a top 10 WR. But I think it's a couple games too early to annoint him as such.

you're missing the fact that he's only getting better and his QB is getting better. he'll be a top 10 WR easily, he was very close to top 10 last year.

[doctorlw 0]

Got burned by VJax a couple times, so stayed away from him this year.

 

But, like others have said in this thread, the conditions around the Chargers have changed drastically and far more rapidly than I, and probably many others, envisioned.

 

With the run game nowhere close to where it was, Rivers proving to be a competent quarterback, a once semi-dominant defense now looking to be below average, and Gates and Chambers slowing down... the recipe for success is now there. Everything is looking up for VJax this season and looks to be one of the best values of the draft. As for the Chargers as a team, however, things aren't looking quite so rosy at this point.

[Chargersin08 0]

Got burned by VJax a couple times, so stayed away from him this year.

 

But, like others have said in this thread, the conditions around the Chargers have changed drastically and far more rapidly than I, and probably many others, envisioned.

 

With the run game nowhere close to where it was, Rivers proving to be a competent quarterback, a once semi-dominant defense now looking to be below average, and Gates and Chambers slowing down... the recipe for success is now there. Everything is looking up for VJax this season and looks to be one of the best values of the draft. As for the Chargers as a team, however, things aren't looking quite so rosy at this point.

How is Gates slowing down? How is a defense ranked 15th "below average"? If you're gonna talk out of your ass about a team, don't do it in such a way that makes it apparent you haven't been watching them play.

[kmbryant09 1]

How is Gates slowing down? How is a defense ranked 15th "below average"? If you're gonna talk out of your ass about a team, don't do it in such a way that makes it apparent you haven't been watching them play.

Chill out - I'm guessing he's referring to the slow start by Gates, and a Defense ranked 15th after facing the Fins (minus Chad Penn. for part of the game), the Ravens, and the University of Oakland Raiders is mediocre AT BEST.

[djrockstar 0]

But, like others have said in this thread, the conditions around the Chargers have changed drastically and far more rapidly than I, and probably many others, envisioned.

 

With the run game nowhere close to where it was, Rivers proving to be a competent quarterback, a once semi-dominant defense now looking to be below average, and Gates and Chambers slowing down... the recipe for success is now there.

 

Chargers were the 22nd overall defense last year and 7th best passing offense. Rivers was the 2nd highest scoring QB in my league last year. Not sure things have changed dramatically from last year in those regards.

 

The biggest change has been a reduced number of touches for LT2. It's also VJ's contract year. Those are significant differences. I would also add that, even some of the best WR's take 3-4 years to really break out (ie. Wayne).

 

That being said, it's only three weeks. But even the best WR's don't pull down 8 catches for 120 yards and a TD every week so expectations should be realistic.

[jocstrap 8]

this could be the year he breaks out

[Chargersin08 0]

Chill out - I'm guessing he's referring to the slow start by Gates, and a Defense ranked 15th after facing the Fins (minus Chad Penn. for part of the game), the Ravens, and the University of Oakland Raiders is mediocre AT BEST.

16th most receiving yards in the NFL and he's having a slow start?

 

I'll take the defense being mediocre, but I don't think you can label them as below average.

[kmbryant09 1]

16th most receiving yards in the NFL and he's having a slow start?

 

I'll take the defense being mediocre, but I don't think you can label them as below average.

I wasn't the original poster that you argued with, just merely trying to settle things. As of right now, Gates is the 13th best TE in my league (assuming Witten scores 4 points tonight). While he hasn't been a huge bust (like you said he has 225 yards through 3 games), he was drafted as a top3 TE in EVERY league. And for as much as the Chargers have thrown the ball (Rivers leading the league in yards), I think it's safe to say Gates is off to a slow start

 

As for the "below average" comment...I'm guessing if you looked at the range of DEF's that the Chargers fall in (15th, as you say), that those DEFs have played better opponents offensively wise, than the Dolphins, Ravens, and Raiders. A DEF that gives up 150 yards and 6 points to the Rams isnt necessarily better than a DEF that gives up 300 and 20 to the Colts...catch my drift?

[skinsrule05 30]

16th most receiving yards in the NFL and he's having a slow start?

 

I'll take the defense being mediocre, but I don't think you can label them as below average.

 

He is 10th in my league in scoring but was taken as the 2nd TE off the board. For his level of production you could have waited 6-8 rounds to get your TE. Saying he is off to a slow start is a good way to say it and is also because there is optimism due to his ability. But if at the end of the year he finishes as the 10th best TE he will be a huge 4th round bust.

 

As far as the defense I agree they are below average. They are 18th in my league and have had probably the easiest matchups in the first 3 weeks for a defense. I drafted them based on an easy schedule but they are not performing like I expected.

[Chargersin08 0]

I wasn't the original poster that you argued with, just merely trying to settle things. As of right now, Gates is the 13th best TE in my league (assuming Witten scores 4 points tonight). While he hasn't been a huge bust (like you said he has 225 yards through 3 games), he was drafted as a top3 TE in EVERY league. And for as much as the Chargers have thrown the ball (Rivers leading the league in yards), I think it's safe to say Gates is off to a slow start

 

As for the "below average" comment...I'm guessing if you looked at the range of DEF's that the Chargers fall in (15th, as you say), that those DEFs have played better opponents offensively wise, than the Dolphins, Ravens, and Raiders. A DEF that gives up 150 yards and 6 points to the Rams isnt necessarily better than a DEF that gives up 300 and 20 to the Colts...catch my drift?

you inserted yourself in the argument, taking the other side.

 

we aren't arguing if gates has been a bust or not (which he hasn't). the original comment i took offense to was that he was "slowing down", which is not the case.

 

as for the "below average" comment....guess all you want, doesn't make it true.

[Chargersin08 0]

He is 10th in my league in scoring but was taken as the 2nd TE off the board. For his level of production you could have waited 6-8 rounds to get your TE. Saying he is off to a slow start is a good way to say it and is also because there is optimism due to his ability. But if at the end of the year he finishes as the 10th best TE he will be a huge 4th round bust.

 

As far as the defense I agree they are below average. They are 18th in my league and have had probably the easiest matchups in the first 3 weeks for a defense. I drafted them based on an easy schedule but they are not performing like I expected.

He's got the 3rd most yards of any tight end so far. He's not going to finish as the TE10. Nothing is slow about him, he just hasn't gotten in the end zone yet, which will happen. You can't say he's "slowing down" or is off to a "slow start" because it's not true.

 

As for your personal opinion on their defense, the key here is that it's your personal opinion.

[dj milkmoney 0]

Whatever about Gates for now. Yes, he's off to a slow start (relatively), but for TEs he's top 5 in receptions, yards, and targets. He doesn't have a TD yet, but you know he's gonna find the end zone. But back to Vincent Jackson...

 

...to my chagrin I sat him the first two weeks in favor of Steve Smith (Car) and T.O. I learned my lesson and started him in week 3 and he did not disappoint. That was interesting analysis regarding his streaky nature in the past, but I'll continue to start him unless he really tanks. I know it's only 3 games, but he's been much more consistent than my other starters and is just looking better and better. I put him as a solid #1>>>>

[kmbryant09 1]

you inserted yourself in the argument, taking the other side.

 

we aren't arguing if gates has been a bust or not (which he hasn't). the original comment i took offense to was that he was "slowing down", which is not the case.

 

as for the "below average" comment....guess all you want, doesn't make it true.

I didn't insert myself into an argument. Someone made a comment that deeply offended you for some reason. I simply butted in to try and make sense of both sides of the argument. Fantasy wise, how can you say Gates isn't off to a slow start??? As you said, he's TE 10 in your league (lower in mine), but he won't finish that low. If thats the case, that's pretty much the definition of a slow start.

 

I understand someone made some loose comments, but you don't gotta go ape$h!t and completely lose your head dude.

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

Yes. For what it's worth.... the announcers on MNF in the first week said that Norv Turner stated he thinks Vincent Jackson will take another step forward and become an Elite receiver in the league. The annoucers agreed and the numbers support the notion to this point. He has always been a big target but he looks a bit quicker this year, is running better routes, and he is even starting to show a little moxie (talking the talk that normally comes along with top tier WR's).

 

And for what it's worth, he is not the only Jackson who is now a Tier 1 Elite WR in this league IMO. Desean Jackson is now in that category as well.

[Chargersin08 0]

I didn't insert myself into an argument. Someone made a comment that deeply offended you for some reason. I simply butted in to try and make sense of both sides of the argument. Fantasy wise, how can you say Gates isn't off to a slow start??? As you said, he's TE 10 in your league (lower in mine), but he won't finish that low. If thats the case, that's pretty much the definition of a slow start.

 

I understand someone made some loose comments, but you don't gotta go ape$h!t and completely lose your head dude.

[kmbryant09 1]

You're cool....lose a homer argument and make a sexual reference...good for you

[Chargersin08 0]

You're cool....lose a homer argument and make a sexual reference...good for you

Wasn't a sexual reference, but now I know what you think of when you see the words insert and butt.

 

I was pointing out your self-made contradiction.

 

Not sure how I lost an argument when 1. Gates isn't slowing down and 2. SD defense is not ranked below average.