Tell me again why Dallas let T.O. go?

[GhostofMeanMachine99 1]

haha... I like it though!

 

But seriously, I give an honest assesment, and next thing I know I'm called a "hater." All because I don't like McNabb as a player and I happen to realize how valuable a player Owens is.

 

And you're right, GOMM always resorts to name calling and insults in the end instead of talking about what's being discussed.

 

A year ago he was telling me how much Kolb stinks and was an awful pick by Andy Reid. Now this year he'll be talking Kolb up because he realizes Kolb just might be a good starter for the Eagles - same thing I had been saying a year ago when he was making fun of me about it.

 

Go figure...

 

Show me where I said Kolb stinks.

 

You just make sh!t up and are completely batsh!t crazy.

 

You hate McNabb as a player, yet he's the greatest QB in franchise history (as voted on by the fans and statistics, etc). And somehow, by taking him out, and inserting Garcia/Feeley/Vick/Kolb, that would automatically make them a better team?

 

And yet when folks talk about TO, and about how he blew up the season in 2005, your arguement to defend TO brings McNabb into the picture, yet at the end of the day, it was all about money.

 

Pointing out that you don't like him as a player and quick to point out his mistakes/shortfalls, etc, with an inability to applaud the player when he does something well, is not considered a hater?

[GhostofMeanMachine99 1]

Romo failed to obey one of Parcells rules............Don't be a celebrity QB! He should be throwing balls through a tire during offseason instead of dating hollywood tramps.

 

I finally agree with you on something.

 

I love Romo's talent; I like his game and what it can be.

 

He sort of reminds me of Steve Young, because he can beat you anywhere on the field (although Romo's not as good a runner as Young was).

 

Maybe it's just not in his DNA to become the QB everybody wants him to be. However, it he wants to bask in the limelight, he's gonna have to take the heat that comes with it.

 

Winning will take that heat right off.

[OD99 0]

This thread has gone in a completely different direction from how it started out...

 

I have to agree that the 'boys let TO go because his production wouldn't outweight the distraction he brought to the team. To say TO "wears his heart on his sleeve" is a way of ignoring the fact that he openly questions the coaches, GM and the play of his own teammates which of course makes him a bad teammate.

 

His being a distraction is not a comment in any way on his ability which, while certainly declining (how can it not? He is getting old) still puts him in the top half of the league for WR. The problem is that he isn't a game changer anymore so while he would be a great player to have if you had several other pieces and kept his mouth shut, the Bills don't and he won't...so he isn't worth having around.

 

If you don't believe that the Bills added him as much for the publicity it would create as for his talent you aren't facing reality. The Bills are set to play several games in Toronto over the next while and the rumour of the Bills moving to Toronto won't go away.

 

This brings me to my last point - the media isn't something that was just invented and NFL players have been using it for a while (SB Shuffle, Portis and his stupid costumes) but nobody uses it consistently to run down the organization they play for like TO. He likes the attention and makes sure it gets back to him one way or another. Since his skills won't allow for good publicity anymore all he is left with is the bad.

 

I suspect the Bills may even cut him before the season is over if he keeps his act up.

[Kilroy 0]

Look, it's pointless trying to rationalize with you about Mcnabb, because you hate him. But ask any team's fans other than New England, Pittsburgh, and Indy how much they'd give to have a quarterback who has been as consistant at keeping his team in contention as long as McNabb has with the Eagles. He has been a top five NFL quarterback at times and is still a top 8-10 QB in teh league.

 

I don't hate McNabb. I've said repeatedly that I liked him his first few years in the league. I've given reasons as to why I don't like him now (he's never progressed and he isn't a good leader). I also don't believe he's a Top 10 QB in the league. Maybe right around number 10, but off the top of my head I'm not certain.

 

McNabb would be better off on a team like Pittsburgh. He really isn't the best fit for Any Reid's WCO though.

 

As for Kolb, are you really saying that a blowout loss to the Saints and a win against the AAA KC Chiefs has you convinced that he would be the better starter right now? Christ, why don't you just say that Vick (Possibly the wrong color for you, as well), Garcia, or Feeley would be better, too?

 

First off, don't ever imply I am racist simply because I don't like Donovan McNabb. I would've taken Steve McNair over McNabb in a heartbeat during McNair's best days. Race has nothing to do with it. It's sad that you'd even go there based on nothing other than McNabb is a black QB and I don't happen to think he's as good as others believe he is.

 

I am allowed to have that opinion without being a rascist - am I not?

 

I'm saying Kolb has shown signs of life. He's went out and performed very well in his first two starts. He was hand picked by Reid and taken a round earlier than most expected by him just to make certain he got his guy. He has now had two years to coach and groom this kid as his future starter at the postion.

 

This is the same Reid that coached Brett Favre, Donovan McNabb, and has had success with the likes of Jeff Garcia, A.J. Feely, and Koy Detmer at times throughout his coaching tenure when needed.

 

There is a reason Reid wanted and got Kolb in that 2007 draft. It wasn't because he thought the kid would hold a clip board throughout his career.

 

Sure Kolb needs to get tested against the NFC East still, but every young QB is going to go through growing pains. I'd rather see what he's got rather then get the same results from McNabb for another season.

 

Put Kolb in at QB and DeSean Jackson will be making big plays more often, Brent Celek will continue getting 5-8 receptions a game, and the offense will run in better rhythm and get better results from the ground game. And everyone from the WRs to the Olineman will respond better to having a good leader at the QB position.

 

Also, just how valuable is Owens? You love to criticize McNabb for never winning a Super Bowl. Did I miss the Super Bowls that TO has won?

 

Owens has made every single player he's ever played with that much better because he's on the field - that includes Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, and Tony Romo. It also includes the RBs he has played with and the WRs he plays opposite of.

 

Who on the Eagles can you point out is a better player thanks to Donovan McNabb?

[dhockster 0]

Owens has made every single player he's ever played with that much better because he's on the field - that includes Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, and Tony Romo. It also includes the RBs he has played with and the WRs he plays opposite of.

 

Who on the Eagles can you point out is a better player thanks to Donovan McNabb?

I do not agree with this point. Owens did not make Tony Romo a better QB by demanding to be thrown to even when he might not have been the best option. He made Romo indecisive and it really showed in his play at the end of last season.

 

You talk about TO like he is ultimate team player. I couldn't think of someone who is more about himself than the team. If he cared so much about the team, he wouldn't be throwing teammates under the bus on every team he has played.

 

He may have helped other players on the offense do better because he was such a great receiver and demanded so much attention from the defense, but it was not something he consciously did. The things he consciously did like speaking negatively about his teammates tend to tear teams apart rather than build them up.

 

As has been said before, he was a great receiver who is a selfish headcase. Now that he is only a good receiver who is still a selfish headcase, he is not worth most team's time.

[Kilroy 0]

Show me where I said Kolb stinks.

 

I'll back off of that.

 

I just know you've laughed at me before for suggesting that either Kolb or Garcia should get the chance to run the offense. I actually said let Garcia run it and see if he has anything left, and if he can't do it then stick Kolb in there with Garcia around to coach and guide the kid. Basically do the same with Garcia and Kolb as Reid had done Pederson and McNabb.

[dhockster 0]

This thread has gone in a completely different direction from how it started out...

 

I have to agree that the 'boys let TO go because his production wouldn't outweight the distraction he brought to the team. To say TO "wears his heart on his sleeve" is a way of ignoring the fact that he openly questions the coaches, GM and the play of his own teammates which of course makes him a bad teammate.

 

His being a distraction is not a comment in any way on his ability which, while certainly declining (how can it not? He is getting old) still puts him in the top half of the league for WR. The problem is that he isn't a game changer anymore so while he would be a great player to have if you had several other pieces and kept his mouth shut, the Bills don't and he won't...so he isn't worth having around.

 

If you don't believe that the Bills added him as much for the publicity it would create as for his talent you aren't facing reality. The Bills are set to play several games in Toronto over the next while and the rumour of the Bills moving to Toronto won't go away.

 

This brings me to my last point - the media isn't something that was just invented and NFL players have been using it for a while (SB Shuffle, Portis and his stupid costumes) but nobody uses it consistently to run down the organization they play for like TO. He likes the attention and makes sure it gets back to him one way or another. Since his skills won't allow for good publicity anymore all he is left with is the bad.

 

I suspect the Bills may even cut him before the season is over if he keeps his act up.

Good post

[Kilroy 0]

I do not agree with this point. Owens did not make Tony Romo a better QB by demanding to be thrown to even when he might not have been the best option. He made Romo indecisive and it really showed in his play at the end of last season.

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see how Romo finishes this season if you believe that is the case. I know Emmitt Smith and Tony Dorsett don't think Romo is all that special a QB though.

 

You talk about TO like he is ultimate team player. I couldn't think of someone who is more about himself than the team. If he cared so much about the team, he wouldn't be throwing teammates under the bus on every team he has played.

 

I've never said Owens was a team player, let alone the ultimate team player. I've always said he's an excellent receiver that makes everyone else on the offense that much more productive.

 

He may have helped other players on the offense do better because he was such a great receiver and demanded so much attention from the defense, but it was not something he consciously did. The things he consciously did like speaking negatively about his teammates tend to tear teams apart rather than build them up.

 

You just it yourself - "he's a great receiver that demands attention."

 

For that exact reason he made everyone else on offense that much better. I don't care if he does it knowingly or not, he does it. The opponent has to compensate for Terrell Owens and as a result it opens up a lot of other options for the offense.

 

And I can garauntee you he knows that his presence on the field opens things up for other players on the offense. He knows he's out there sometimes just to be used as a decoy to set something else up. He also gives 100% every snap and doesn't shy away from blocking on running plays.

 

As has been said before, he was a great receiver who is a selfish headcase. Now that he is only a good receiver who is still a selfish headcase, he is not worth most team's time.

 

He's a bit of a headcase, but that can and has been worked around at times in his past.

 

Jon Gruden had nothing but praise for Terrell Owens during the MNF game. I'm sure if he's coaching next year and Owens needs a team Gruden will be more than happy to have T.O. around.

[OD99 0]

Why do say that McNabb isn't a leader? Everyone but Owens and Freddie "McNabb made me better or at least well known for 15 minutes" Mitchell have said he is a good leader.

 

He practices hard, brings the guys together to train in the off season and has been the leader on teams with no WR's to speak of to the NFC final 5 times...realistically it is hard to say that other QB's could have done better. Sure he has his extremely aggravating episodes of hitting the dirt with passes but his completion rate and most importantly his turnover rate are exceptional.

 

Yes, Kolb has looked good (and helped me crush my opponent last week!) and I don't think there is any question he is the QB of the future - a very bright future. We are lucky as Eagles fans to see this transition but Kolb looks like he will have the advantage of gamebreakers at every position that McNabb never had. The Eagles have had great skill position players but never an entire core like this...explosive players all over!

 

I think that McNabb has made everyone around him better for his career - the O-Line look better when he escapes a sack, the receivers look better when he buys time and draws the D towards him and the RB benefit from teams having to focus on containing McNabb.

[jocstrap 8]

Is Dallas' passing offense better or worse now that T.O. is gone?

[Tony_Romo_Domination 0]

Is Dallas' passing offense better or worse now that T.O. is gone?

 

 

better......the ball can now go where it needs to go....dallas doesnt have to deal with a 35 year old child.

[sirensong 111]

Is Dallas' passing offense better or worse now that T.O. is gone?

 

right now, the passing game is much less effective (14th in the league).

 

but dallas has the #3 total offense in the league without him.

 

let's be realistic--they hung 250 RuYds on what was supposed to be the best front 7 in football. they put up 212 last week without MB. if dallas hangs 200+ rushing on another team, the play pass game is going to get ridiculous. one of the things i see from romo that makes me really optimistic is how he is really selling the play-action.

[Tony_Romo_Domination 0]

right now, the passing game is much less effective (14th in the league).

 

but dallas has the #3 total offense in the league without him.

 

let's be realistic--they hung 250 RuYds on what was supposed to be the best front 7 in football. they put up 212 last week without MB. if dallas hangs 200+ rushing on another team, the play pass game is going to get ridiculous. one of the things i see from romo that makes me really optimistic is how he is really selling the play-action.

 

 

[NewbieJr 540]

Who on the Eagles can you point out is a better player thanks to Donovan McNabb?

Easiest question of the day...

 

Let's see, he made guys like Freddie Mitchell. James Thrash, and Quinn Early be starting receivers on teams in the NFC Championship game. Multiple times. And other than one year when they had TO, those guys were his best receiving weapons.

[49ers_suck 0]

right now, the passing game is much less effective (14th in the league).

 

but dallas has the #3 total offense in the league without him.

 

let's be realistic--they hung 250 RuYds on what was supposed to be the best front 7 in football. they put up 212 last week without MB. if dallas hangs 200+ rushing on another team, the play pass game is going to get ridiculous. one of the things i see from romo that makes me really optimistic is how he is really selling the play-action.

this

 

the running game is good enough for Romo to just "manage" games. this is not a horrible offense. this is Romo hopefully maturing as a QB

[South Beach 0]

I tried to point out the same thing back on page 1.

 

The bottom line is that nobody cares about "stats"or "hard data"on the original topic.... those just tend to get in the way of a good TO argument.

[Tony_Romo_Domination 0]

this

 

the running game is good enough for Romo to just "manage" games. this is not a horrible offense. this is Romo hopefully maturing as a QB

 

 

dallas is first in rushing offense now and 14th in passing offense with a #3 overall total offensive rank. This is excellent

[dhockster 0]

Jon Gruden had nothing but praise for Terrell Owens during the MNF game. I'm sure if he's coaching next year and Owens needs a team Gruden will be more than happy to have T.O. around.

 

Since Gruden wants to coach again he is not going to say anything bad about any player. I have a hard time seeing Chuckie take on the headache that comes with having TO on your team.

 

Look, Kilroy, I not going to keep arguing with you about TO because you are obviously a fan of his immense talent, and that's okay. I was a fan of his for that one great season in 2004 but I got tired of him making everything about TO. I think it is evident by how he has left three teams that he creates a lot of turmoil, and ultimately that hurts the environment of the team he is on. As a fan, I like players who are all about the team. Give me Dawkins, Vincent, Westbrook, Runyan any day of the week. All they do is come to the field every week to play, sacrifice their bodies, and don't try to put themselves above the team. I think those are the type of players who ultimately make a team successful over a long period of time. The TO's of the world shine brightly for a year or two before they demand the spotlight and then they lose their effectiveness to the team.

[NewbieJr 540]

Since Gruden wants to coach again he is not going to say anything bad about any player. I have a hard time seeing Chuckie take on the headache that comes with having TO on your team.

 

Look, Kilroy, I not going to keep arguing with you about TO because you are obviously a fan of his immense talent, and that's okay. I was a fan of his for that one great season in 2004 but I got tired of him making everything about TO. I think it is evident by how he has left three teams that he creates a lot of turmoil, and ultimately that hurts the environment of the team he is on. As a fan, I like players who are all about the team. Give me Dawkins, Vincent, Westbrook, Runyan any day of the week. All they do is come to the field every week to play, sacrifice their bodies, and don't try to put themselves above the team. I think those are the type of players who ultimately make a team successful over a long period of time. The TO's of the world shine brightly for a year or two before they demand the spotlight and then they lose their effectiveness to the team.

100% correct.

 

I'll tell you right here, right now, that Gruden will NEVER have T.O. on his team if he returns to coaching. The only possible exception would be if he was hired by Oakland or Wasghington, because they have owners who love gimmicky, media-attracting players. But it would be similar to when Jones signed him in Dallas and Parcells hated the idea.

 

As Owens' skills erode more and more, less and less teams are going to be willing to take a chance. As I said before, Buffalo won't resign him and Daniel Snyder is probably his last chance.