It's official, the Patriots

[kmbryant09 1]

This is the worst argument ever. Most of Brady playoff games have been in cold weather, Foxboro, Pittsburgh, etc. Manning has played a lot of his games inside.

Oh - so now all of a sudden the circumstances matter???

 

Funny how when it comes to Manning's "cut and dry" 3:7 TD:INT ration in 2006, the circumstances don't matter. But when Pretty Boy gets thrown under the bus, we hafta look at the bigger picture, right?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

This is the worst argument ever. Most of Brady playoff games have been in cold weather, Foxboro, Pittsburgh, etc. Manning has played a lot of his games inside.

 

I think the fact that passer rating is an utterly useless statistic is even more important.

[redtodd 7]

You know...You guys keep wanting to throw these stats about Manning around, but I think your stats are flawed. Why? Well, if I remember correctly, you guys talk about how the QB runs the offense, how he manages the game, how he does more, than just throw the football and I can tell you, no other QB in the league, controls their offense like Manning does.

 

So lets look at the TRUE and REAL Stats of Manning:

 

His SB run:

 

He had 3 passing td's

He had 1 rushing TD - You seem to forget this one for him

He had 7 interceptions

He lead the team on 4 rushing TD's drives - I am counting Saturday's fumble recovery for a TD as a rushing TD

He lead the team to 14 field goals.

 

So really, he lead the Colts to 98 points in his SB run. I don't see how he was such a Liability. Hmm...I like how you left out all those other scoring drives. Anyway, I think I just put the closing arguements on Mannings 2006 run and there is NOTHING you can say about it.

 

Enjoy!

 

Turnovers are the most critical thing a QB can do. If you were a fan of the Colts prior to 2007, you would have watched the Chiefs game, the Ravens game, 1st half of the Pats game and all but one pass in the Super Bowl (when Reggie Wayne had no one near him for 30 yards) and seen that he kept turning the ball over and his defense was stuck bailing him out each game. ESPECIALLY the Chiefs game where he turned it over twice in his own territory, yet the Chiefs could not turn them into points.

 

You can spin it all you want, Manning had the WORST playoff run by a Super Bowl winning QB in the history of the Super Bowl era that year. If it wasn't for his defense dominating all but one half, he would have been bumped much sooner.

[redtodd 7]

And by the way - your boy's (Brady) career playoff passer rating??

 

Brady's - 85.5

 

Manning's - 87.5

 

Two reasons why it is even close:

 

1) Dome

 

2) Manning padded his stats in two games against the Broncos, probably the worst defenses to ever be in the playoffs.

 

What are the records and how many times did BRady throw more INT's than TD's in the playoffs?

[redtodd 7]

Funny how when it comes to Manning's "cut and dry" 3:7 TD:INT ration in 2006, the circumstances don't matter. But when Pretty Boy gets thrown under the bus, we hafta look at the bigger picture, right?

 

3:7 is cut and dry because NO QB other than Manning has been able to duplicate it. HTH!!!!

[kmbryant09 1]

3:7 is cut and dry because NO QB other than Manning has been able to duplicate it. HTH!!!!

WTF IS HTH???

 

But also - my point is...when the stats are in Brady's favor, you Pats' fans claim the stats tell the whole story. When the stats are in Manning's favor, you Pats' fans claim that you need to look at the "bigger picture", and include other factors like wins and leadership and whatnot. So which is it?

 

The latest argument in the Brady vs. Manning debate has been playoff performances based on yards, TDs, stats. So now Manning has a better career post-season rating than Brady, more yards, and the same amount of TDs in ONE LESS GAME than Brady....so now all of a sudden, you guys are trying to look beyond the stats

[redtodd 7]

WTF IS HTH???

 

But also - my point is...when the stats are in Brady's favor, you Pats' fans claim the stats tell the whole story. When the stats are in Manning's favor, you Pats' fans claim that you need to look at the "bigger picture", and include other factors like wins and leadership and whatnot. So which is it?

 

The latest argument in the Brady vs. Manning debate has been playoff performances based on yards, TDs, stats. So now Manning has a better career post-season rating than Brady, more yards, and the same amount of TDs in ONE LESS GAME than Brady....so now all of a sudden, you guys are trying to look beyond the stats

 

Try and deny 3:7 all you want, but it is what it is. No QB in history has been able to do it. Not Trent Dilfer. Not Brad Johnson and not Brady (even though he had 4 opportunities to try to).

 

Manning is finally on top of his game though and is about to win the big one with a little help from his defense, but not being carried by it. As I said, 12 years is better than never.

 

Also, your "Pats fans claims" are a little made up on your part.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

How did we get so far off track on this thread? This was supposed to be a Patriots-hating theme based on pure speculation.

 

Now we get into Manning?

 

- Brady has as good of a chance to get back to the SB as anyone. There are flaws to every team and the uncertainty of the CBA right now makes things even harder to figure out.

 

- Manning is a better QB than Brady. Hard to argue that. Whether that translates to wins is really sort of moot. You have to play well on both sides of the ball to win and there are plenty of really talented guys out there who did not win because of the supporting cast.

 

- I can definitely see how people got sick of Patriots fans. If Pats fans were acting the same way during a much longer run as our two resident Colt retards (sorry Sarah) have during this short run, then I can definitely see why people hated them.

[kmbryant09 1]

Try and deny 3:7 all you want, but it is what it is. No QB in history has been able to do it. Not Trent Dilfer. Not Brad Johnson and not Brady (even though he had 4 opportunities to try to).

 

Manning is finally on top of his game though and is about to win the big one with a little help from his defense, but not being carried by it. As I said, 12 years is better than never.

 

Also, your "Pats fans claims" are a little made up on your part.

I'm not denying 3:7, that's not really an arguable fact. But my point is...when I bring up the QB rating (which is a stat - a measurement of performance, just like TD:INT ratio), you try and defend Brady's rating (which is lower than Manning's), but looking at it in more details, and taking into consideration other factors, such as playing outside vs. in a dome.

 

Yet here you are saying 3:7 is 3:7 is 3:7. No if's and or but's about it - no explaining it, not looking at it in further detail. You ignore the fact that he played quite arguably the toughest stretches of DEF's any QB ever has in the playoffs (sorry - he didn't get the DEF-less Rams, or Panthers). In the 2 biggest games (AFC Championship & SuperBowl - which was played in a DOWNPOUR), Manning threw for nearly 600 yards, accounted for 3 TD's, 2 INTs - and led his team to 67 points. Hardly an embarrassing performance, especially against the rival Patriots and #1 DEF Chicago Bears, in a rain storm. Did he play awful against the Ravens and pretty bad against the Chiefs? Yes absolutely, I don't think anyone can deny that. But that was in the WildCard round and Divisional Round. The DEFENSE WON those games. But how can you say the DEF won them the SuperBowl when they gave up 34 points to the Patriots? That game was all Manning, all offense, all comeback. And against the Bears? The DEF played well, but again Manning was forced to play from behind, and again played pretty well to win his first SuperBowl.

 

How did we get so far off track on this thread? This was supposed to be a Patriots-hating theme based on pure speculation.

 

Now we get into Manning?

 

- Brady has as good of a chance to get back to the SB as anyone. There are flaws to every team and the uncertainty of the CBA right now makes things even harder to figure out.

 

- Manning is a better QB than Brady. Hard to argue that. Whether that translates to wins is really sort of moot. You have to play well on both sides of the ball to win and there are plenty of really talented guys out there who did not win because of the supporting cast.

 

- I can definitely see how people got sick of Patriots fans. If Pats fans were acting the same way during a much longer run as our two resident Colt retards (sorry Sarah) have during this short run, then I can definitely see why people hated them.

Please humor me on how he has as good a chance as anyone to make it back to the SB....He looked very tentative coming back from his knee surgery, it remains to be seen if he'll ever return to the assassin he once was. Welker really won't be effective next season, and I think it will be tough for him to ever return to 100% - which is a tremendous blow. Moss is a year older, a step slower, and is back into the "I'll play when I feel like it" stage of his career. He's no longer the dominant force he once was. The Patriots don't have a RB. I know they have a very solid OLine, but aren't they at risk of losing one or two of their starters? They don't have a good TE. Their DEF is young and terrible, lacks playmakers, lacks a pass-rush, and lacks experience. So how does this put them on level playing fields with teams such as New Orleans, Indianapolis, Minny (if Favre is back), the Steelers, Ravens, Packers, etc.

 

And how are us retard Colts fans acting (btw, real classy with the name-calling ). I believe all I've talked about for the past few weeks is informed Colts' football, while defending Peyton Manning ONCE AGAIN. Am I wrong that Patriots fans, and all Colts-haters constantly change their argument every time Manning proves them wrong? Some of the arguments are so far-fetched now that it's quite absurd. But keep thinking Pretty Boy is every bit the QB Manning is

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Please humor me on how he has as good a chance as anyone to make it back to the SB....He looked very tentative coming back from his knee surgery, it remains to be seen if he'll ever return to the assassin he once was. Welker really won't be effective next season, and I think it will be tough for him to ever return to 100% - which is a tremendous blow. Moss is a year older, a step slower, and is back into the "I'll play when I feel like it" stage of his career. He's no longer the dominant force he once was. The Patriots don't have a RB. I know they have a very solid OLine, but aren't they at risk of losing one or two of their starters? They don't have a good TE. Their DEF is young and terrible, lacks playmakers, lacks a pass-rush, and lacks experience. So how does this put them on level playing fields with teams such as New Orleans, Indianapolis, Minny (if Favre is back), the Steelers, Ravens, Packers, etc.

 

I have been hearing that the Pats don't have this position or that position for 9+ years. They have won SB's without a good RB, without any WR's of note and aging defenders.

 

The OL and DL are solid. They added youth to the defense over the last two years and that group will mature. Your categorization of "terrible" is interesting given that they were 5th overall in points allowed. On both defense and offense, they have to make some changes and I believe that starts with the coordinators.

 

The Patriots have enough pieces in place to contend now and they have 4 picks in the first two rounds this coming draft and 2 first rounders in 2011. I just don't see how a team that was top 5 in points allowed and top 3 in total offense is somehow just "done".

[kmbryant09 1]

I have been hearing that the Pats don't have this position or that position for 9+ years. They have won SB's without a good RB, without any WR's of note and aging defenders.

 

The OL and DL are solid. They added youth to the defense over the last two years and that group will mature. Your categorization of "terrible" is interesting given that they were 5th overall in points allowed. On both defense and offense, they have to make some changes and I believe that starts with the coordinators.

 

The Patriots have enough pieces in place to contend now and they have 4 picks in the first two rounds this coming draft and 2 first rounders in 2011. I just don't see how a team that was top 5 in points allowed and top 3 in total offense is somehow just "done".

So you think this roster right now, with an aging Moss, an injured Welker, an un-happy Wilfork, no pass-rushers, little experience on DEF, and lacking a RB & TE, is ready to make it to the SuperBowl because you have 2 extra 2nd round picks??? Not sure the DL is "solid", especially after giving Seymour away and with Wilfork unhappy.

 

Also, I think one could argue the Pats are setup to win in the FUTURE, not now. Meaning the DEF will take 2-3 more years to mature, and certainly all these draft picks won't pan out for a few years. By that time??? Moss will be done, who knows if Welker will ever be close to the same player, and Brady will be at the tail-end of his career.

 

Don't get me wrong - they are still a solid team, and will always be dangerous so long as Brady & Moss are in uniform. But they simply aren't a team that scares anyone anymore....even when healthy.

[redtodd 7]

Sorry the Colts defense couldn't carry Peyton to another Super Bowl.

 

I don't recall the Patriots ever losing a Super Bowl by 14 with Brady at the helm.