Hardcore troubadour 14,987 Posted March 25, 2023 10 hours ago, MLCKAA said: He wouldn’t expect cerebral creatures made with free will and analytical brains to believe in the divinity of Him more than 1,990 years after his death “just b’cuz” without giving them some kind of affirmation about it. He just wouldn’t. What difference does his divinity or lack thereof make? It’s not necessary to believe in his words. So which of his words do you take issue with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLCKAA 548 Posted March 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: What difference does his divinity or lack thereof make? It’s not necessary to believe in his words. So which of his words do you take issue with? Your questions don’t make much sense to me. His divinity is part of His gospel. He claimed to be God incarnate. It is wholly relevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,987 Posted March 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, MLCKAA said: Your questions don’t make much sense to me. His divinity is part of His gospel. He claimed to be God incarnate. It is wholly relevant. Ok. We can debate if he actually said that, and there has been debate about through the ages. But is that what’s really important, or the message? I do not believe his mother was a virgin and all of that. But I don’t see that as being necessary to believe in what he preached. The back story isn’t the point. If Jesus had the choice between people believing he was the only son of god yet not practicing what he preached, or, not believe he was, yet practicing his teachings, what would he choose? I believe the second choice. So his divinity, to myself and other rational deists, isn’t the point. It’s more of a distraction. And anti religious bigots like to use it as a weapon to ridicule. Lots of people fall for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLCKAA 548 Posted March 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Ok. We can debate if he actually said that, and there has been debate about through the ages. But is that what’s really important, or the message? I do not believe his mother was a virgin and all of that. But I don’t see that as being necessary to believe in what he preached. The back story isn’t the point. If Jesus had the choice between people believing he was the only son of god yet not practicing what he preached, or, not believe he was, yet practicing his teachings, what would he choose? I believe the second choice. So his divinity, to myself and other rational deists, isn’t the point. It’s more of a distraction. And anti religious bigots like to use it as a weapon to ridicule. Lots of people fall for it. You and I are not far apart, whether or not that comes thru clearly here. However, you’re talking about two separate things. One is the entirely useful set of values espoused in the New Testament. The second is the gospel of Jesus, in which He clearly and definitively claims to be God incarnate and says that no one comes to God except through him. I take issue with the second part, as you also seem to. But, that’s the book. That’s what is said in the book. I’m not going to rehash things I’ve posted in this forum as recently as January. Don’t have the time or energy. In summary, though, I find it unfair to Mankind 2023 that the Bible spells out eternal punishment for non-believers while also saying we shouldn’t expect to have the benefit of direct knowledge of Him that was afforded to people nearly 2k years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,987 Posted March 25, 2023 1 minute ago, MLCKAA said: You and I are not far apart, whether or not that comes thru clearly here. However, you’re talking about two separate things. One is the entirely useful set of values espoused in the New Testament. The second is the gospel of Jesus, in which He clearly and definitively claims to be God incarnate and says that no one comes to God except through him. I take issue with the second part, as you also seem to. But, that’s the book. That’s what is said in the book. I’m not going to rehash things I’ve posted in this forum as recently as January. Don’t have the time or energy. In summary, though, I find it unfair to Mankind 2023 that the Bible spells out eternal punishment for non-believers while also saying we shouldn’t expect to have the benefit of direct knowledge of Him that was afforded to people nearly 2k years ago. Ok. It’s just that I view much outside of what he said as either manipulation or marketing. And Christians are actually the bigger issue with taking the eyes off the prize. I personally think his preachings about how people should live with and treat each other to be the point, not if he actually walked on water and the rest. Not that I’m his best disciple. I ain’t. Don’t want to come off as preachy. I’ll roll around in the filth too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLCKAA 548 Posted March 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Ok. It’s just that I view much outside of what he said as either manipulation or marketing. And Christians are actually the bigger issue with taking the eyes off the prize. I personally think his preachings about how people should live with and treat each other to be the point, not if he actually walked on water and the rest. Not that I’m his best disciple. I ain’t. Don’t want to come off as preachy. I’ll roll around in the filth too. I think we’re on exactly the same page. Or at least in the same chapter. NT values: basically perfection. But the values are only 1 part of a two part gospel. Part one: know that this is the character of God and be imitators of God (the values) Part two: be damned if you do not accept Jesus as the way, the truth and the life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,987 Posted March 25, 2023 1 hour ago, MLCKAA said: I think we’re on exactly the same page. Or at least in the same chapter. NT values: basically perfection. But the values are only 1 part of a two part gospel. Part one: know that this is the character of God and be imitators of God (the values) Part two: be damned if you do not accept Jesus as the way, the truth and the life. Yes, The second part is the problem, and that’s on the ones saying it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLCKAA 548 Posted March 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Yes, The second part is the problem, and that’s on the ones saying it. But, again, that’s the book. That’s what it says. No one’s twisting it. After 2,000 years it seems like He would realize that the people HE MADE would legitimately need a little representation to go along with the eons-old text. C’mon God. How about just 1 global visitation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
