$140,000 is the new poverty line. Here's the math

[jerryskids 7,157]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

Health insurance (non government) costs us $4.4 trillion a year (as of 2022)  

One can look at any of the myriad countries with universal healthcare to see that it’s far cheaper for the citizens than our for-profit system. Oh yeah, and almost every country with universal care has longer life expectancy than the USA. 

I get the general distrust of the government… but when it comes to the cost to citizens, our system is by far the most expensive. So you’re not gonna win on the cost argument. 

I feel like we discussed this recently.  Our system is far from perfect, but the idea that universal healthcare is the panacea for us is naive.  People like to use Norway as an example -- Norway is tiny in both population and size -- for size, it is basically a one-dimensional country, because virtually everyone lives near the coast.  Plop a medical center every 50 miles along the coast and, walla, medical care for everyone.  They also have a general Scandinavian mindset like "Hygge", which translates roughly to "good enough."  It's a very different mindset than the US.

This is not to mention innovation.  I don't think Norway is blazing trails in advanced medical innovation like the US does.

Here is a list of countries by population: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/

Here is by area:  https://www.worldometers.info/geography/largest-countries-in-the-world/

Which of the countries with large areas and populations would you trade healthcare systems with.  India?  China?  Russia?  Brazil?

Japan is interesting.  Small in area but 1/3 our population.  They have national healthcare with a 30% copay.  It's mandatory, people pay into it, and if you don't have it, fock you.  If you are an illegal alien without it, fock you.  Heck, if you are a visitor like you or me and don't have proof of insurance, fock you.  I'd consider that kind of system -- take employers out of the coverage which is a big problem, everyone pays, and if you don't pay, see ya. (There are reduced rates for low-income and elderly).