Rules Changes?

[Zap 0]

Since I'm unusually active this time of year this year, I'm open to enhancing this with some rules changes.

 

I can think of two tweaks that might make this a little better.

 

1) Flex IDP Starters cannot be same position

 

Currently we start 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 2Dflex.

 

I'm in another league that does the same, but it has a maximum at any position of 3. So you cannot start 4 LBs like many of us have. This set up would downgrade LBs moderately, upgrade DBs considerably, and upgrade DLs slightly. I like it balancing things out some, and I'm trying to enhance DL value.

 

2) Increase IDP Scoring

 

Scooter observed about halfway through last season that IDPs just didn't have that much value based on our scoring system. It's a pretty standard system and I even cranked up safeties (which are so common). Iirc, at season's end only a half dozen IDPs were in the top 50 scoring. Something like that. The second half of the top 100 was packed with IDPs though. It isn't bad. Certainly we don't want to overemphasize IDPs when it's offensive skill position players that drive the hobby. Still, I'd like to bump it up a little.

 

Current system:

Solo 1

Assist .5

Pass defensed 1

Sack 3

Fumble recovery 3

Forced fumble 3

Blocked kick or punt 3

Interception 4

Safety 5

TD 6

 

Thoughts?

 

Here's some of mine. A pt per solo and .5 per assist is a nice standard I would like to keep. Tackles is the easiest stat to tweak to make IDPs more valuable though.

 

What if we bumped DBs by scoring 2 per pass defended? It would help LBs and pass swatting DLs a little too.

 

Leave forced fumbles at three, but bump the other three pointers to 4 and interceptions to 5? Really, this is a boost for DLs because sacks are the most common stat being upgraded, but there's a little extra scoring here and there.

[football_scooter 0]

Agree to both.

 

I like the balance between offense & defense, and would applaud this change.

 

I also think a blocked kick or punt should be bumped to 4 - they're pretty infrequent.

 

Just my $.02 of course - others may disagree...

[Zap 0]

Okay then. I won't make the changes official, but I am leaning towards them.

 

How about this?

 

A more aggressive approach would be to mess with the tackles stat.

 

How about 1.5 per solo and .5 per assist? This would really boost IDPs in general, but primarily LBs, safeties and the run supporting CBs. It doesn't do much for DLs, but another IDP expert pitched this system to me for the following reason.

 

The assist stat is a little bogus if you've followed it closely over the years. Some teams are liberal with it while others are stingy. Zach Thomas gets assisted tackles for shedding blocks. Tedi Bruschi gets them because he had a stroke. Well, maybe he gets them for barking out the right signals before the snap. That's sort of like assisting, isn't it? Vilma would have had another 25 assists last year if he was in Miami or New England. That's the point. So if we make solos more valuable while leaving assists alone, then we adjust this towards reality and increase IDP scoring at the same time.

[waveman 0]

I think Interception should still be 3+ret yards+score(if any) and Safety is way high - prefer the 2 points scored (no more than 3). Either way I'm still good with whatever you choose.

[Zap 0]

I think Interception should still be 3+ret yards+score(if any) and Safety is way high - prefer the 2 points scored (no more than 3). Either way I'm still good with whatever you choose.

 

Well you get 4 + score in this system.

 

the reason safety is high is value based. A sack is three. Does it put points on the board? Does is turn the ball over to the offense? Nope. A safety is better than a forced fumble and recovery for the team. It puts 2 on the board and still gives the turnover. Those are huge plays. If a sack or forced fumble is worth 3, I've never understood how a safety could be worth less. They're very rare too.

[waveman 0]

Well you get 4 + score in this system.

 

the reason safety is high is value based. A sack is three. Does it put points on the board? Does is turn the ball over to the offense? Nope. A safety is better than a forced fumble and recovery for the team. It puts 2 on the board and still gives the turnover. Those are huge plays. If a sack or forced fumble is worth 3, I've never understood how a safety could be worth less. They're very rare too.

 

That makes sense

[Diesel07 0]

i agree with tackles being worth 1.5. I like the idea of adding in the return yardage on an int/fumble recovery. why get points for the score, but no points for the return yardage? doesnt makse sense to me.

 

im also in favor of elminating the same flex positions & the pass defended.

[Zap 0]

Bump since we have new activity.

[TexanForever 0]

i agree with tackles being worth 1.5. I like the idea of adding in the return yardage on an int/fumble recovery. why get points for the score, but no points for the return yardage? doesnt makse sense to me.

 

im also in favor of elminating the same flex positions & the pass defended.

 

 

I agree with points for return yardage. For example, Deangelo Hall intercepts the ball and runs it 87 yards to the opponents 1 yard line, where he is knocked out of bounds. He gives the offense the ball on the 1 yard line for an easy score after running 87 yards with an interception, yet all he gets is the points for the interception. Hardly seems fair to me. I also agree with the increase to 1.5 for solo tackles and the increase to 2 for passes defended.

[Contender/Pretender 0]

I agree with points for return yardage. For example, Deangelo Hall intercepts the ball and runs it 87 yards to the opponents 1 yard line, where he is knocked out of bounds. He gives the offense the ball on the 1 yard line for an easy score after running 87 yards with an interception, yet all he gets is the points for the interception. Hardly seems fair to me. I also agree with the increase to 1.5 for solo tackles and the increase to 2 for passes defended.

 

I like the increase to 1.5 for solos and the increase to 2 for PD. I have never played in a league with return yardage but it sounds good to me given the example. If you want to bump up the value of DL you could increase their tackles to 2 pts and 1.5 to the other positions. Just an idea.

I also like the flex positions having to be different.

[Zap 0]

I have enacted a rule change.

 

IDP Starters

 

Previously: 2dl, 2lb, 2db, 2flex

 

This allowed you to use both flexes at one position to start 4 lbs, dbs, or dls.

 

Change: 2dl, 2lb, 2db, 2flex, one flex per position.

 

You can start 3 at any two positions. You can no longer start 4 at a position.

[Diesel07 0]

Should just make it 333, but thats jsut me. 2222 is fine.

[Zap 0]

We have another rules change.

 

Some of you know I am in another league identical to this except it is a local auction. That league has 6 members who have been at this together (off and on in a couple cases) since 1986. Over the years we evolved from a TD only league to the format of Goider.

 

As commish of both and thoroughly enjoying both, it is important to me, that both leagues retain the same scoring systems.

 

I changed the flex because it was being readily accepted here and there. Other rules changes appear to be an uphill battle with the exceptions below.

 

The only suggestion with an active debate is 1.5 per solo and .5 per assist (bumping solos .5).

 

the winning argument is coming from the following logic. Having the ability to start 4 LBs increased their already high value. By limiting them to three starters we have devalued LBs a bunch and adding the .5 per tackle both adjusts LB value back up a while increasing overall IDP scoring. Two birds one stone. Why did it become important to bring LB value back up? It is a stated goal of the league to limit free agency and make it challenging. We increased IDPs a couple years ago to accomplish that and noted there was still some good LBs available, so we made it possible to start 4 and it worked.

 

The half points is a significant increase if you think about it. 6 solos goes from 6 points to 9 points. Instead of 6 IDPs in the top 50, this brings the total (last year) to 19. Almost 40%. Three in this league have supported solos @ 1.5. Five in the other league have. There have been no objections here, and one in the other league.

 

The New Rule

 

Return yards for interceptions and fumble recoveries will count 1 point per 10 yards fractional. This is done.

[Contender/Pretender 0]

We have another rules change.

 

Some of you know I am in another league identical to this except it is a local auction. That league has 6 members who have been at this together (off and on in a couple cases) since 1986. Over the years we evolved from a TD only league to the format of Goider.

 

As commish of both and thoroughly enjoying both, it is important to me, that both leagues retain the same scoring systems.

 

I changed the flex because it was being readily accepted here and there. Other rules changes appear to be an uphill battle with the exceptions below.

 

The only suggestion with an active debate is 1.5 per solo and .5 per assist (bumping solos .5).

 

the winning argument is coming from the following logic. Having the ability to start 4 LBs increased their already high value. By limiting them to three starters we have devalued LBs a bunch and adding the .5 per tackle both adjusts LB value back up a while increasing overall IDP scoring. Two birds one stone. Why did it become important to bring LB value back up? It is a stated goal of the league to limit free agency and make it challenging. We increased IDPs a couple years ago to accomplish that and noted there was still some good LBs available, so we made it possible to start 4 and it worked.

 

The half points is a significant increase if you think about it. 6 solos goes from 6 points to 9 points. Instead of 6 IDPs in the top 50, this brings the total (last year) to 19. Almost 40%. Three in this league have supported solos @ 1.5. Five in the other league have. There have been no objections here, and one in the other league.

 

The New Rule

 

Return yards for interceptions and fumble recoveries will count 1 point per 10 yards fractional. This is done.

So the return yards is a done deal. and you are still considering or have decided to increase the .5 per tackle on solos? I for one like the balance that will provide for the linebackers.

[Zap 0]

you are still considering or have decided to increase the .5 per tackle on solos?

 

Still under consideration.

 

The other league has an active, sarcasm filled email thread making the rounds a half dozen times a day. We have some serious slackers in this league right now. Currently 10 of 12 have chimed in in the other.

 

It is 5-4 with 1 abstained in favor of the half point bump.

 

The four objections are all in the "keep it standard" camp. 1 per solo and .5 for assist is the primary system used netwide. I also know two of them are very good at building cheap defenses, something I prefer too, and they fear this adjustment will make our typical strategy more difficult. There was even a counter suggested to merely lower assists to .33 keeping solos at 1. I nixed that but understood the strategy behind the suggestion.

 

The one abstention is under serious pressure from both camps to vote. He's enjoying himself and abstained so that I couldn't break a tie.

[Contender/Pretender 0]

Still under consideration.

 

The other league has an active, sarcasm filled email thread making the rounds a half dozen times a day. We have some serious slackers in this league right now. Currently 10 of 12 have chimed in in the other.

 

It is 5-4 with 1 abstained in favor of the half point bump.

 

The four objections are all in the "keep it standard" camp. 1 per solo and .5 for assist is the primary system used netwide. I also know two of them are very good at building cheap defenses, something I prefer too, and they fear this adjustment will make our typical strategy more difficult. There was even a counter suggested to merely lower assists to .33 keeping solos at 1. I nixed that but understood the strategy behind the suggestion.

 

The one abstention is under serious pressure from both camps to vote. He's enjoying himself and abstained so that I couldn't break a tie.

So if you could break the tie - which way are you leaning?

[Zap 0]

So if you could break the tie - which way are you leaning?

 

 

Despite trying to build cheap defenses I think we need more IDP scoring. 11 have now voted in the other league and we are locked up 5-5-1. #12 is hasn't decided, but he did threaten to abstain so I CAN break the tie.

[ExtremeFajita 0]

I like the bump for solo tackles. Having more IDPs in the top 50 makes for a more competetive balance.

[Zap 0]

It's done.

 

Solo Tackles now = 1.5 each

[RLLD 3,455]

It's done.

 

Solo Tackles now = 1.5 each

 

 

[ExtremeFajita 0]

:revises projections:

 

Sounds good. Just out of curiosity, has there ever been a discussion about raising points for passes defended to bring cornerbacks a bit closer in value to safeties? Not too many of them in the picture unless they play a Cover 2.

 

The DL positions take another downgrade in value with this adjustment. I'm fine with that, but if you are striving to provide some balance across the three defensive units, sacks = 3x solo tackle is the rough yardstick to keep the DEs in the picture.

[Contender/Pretender 0]

It's done.

 

Solo Tackles now = 1.5 each

 

I agree

 

Interesting thought on the PD being increased.

[Zap 0]

:revises projections:

 

Sounds good. Just out of curiosity, has there ever been a discussion about raising points for passes defended to bring cornerbacks a bit closer in value to safeties? Not too many of them in the picture unless they play a Cover 2.

 

The DL positions take another downgrade in value with this adjustment. I'm fine with that, but if you are striving to provide some balance across the three defensive units, sacks = 3x solo tackle is the rough yardstick to keep the DEs in the picture.

 

Nope. The other league that mirrors this one (and I am determined to keep them identical), had an unusually active conversation regarding rules changes. I think another early start next year with variety of solid ideas like the above and I'll probably have this thing just the way I want it for the long term.

 

By changing the flex, adding the return yards and bumping solos, we've done little for the DL this year. We'll address that next year and hopefully have a nice system IDP junkies can defend and be proud of.