the art of the trade

[Super Cubs 132]

what do you look for in a trade?

 

I try to be fair when I make an offer and always ask for a counter offer to see where we stand. Every player on my tyeam has a price. If you make me a offer make it a fair one with a player of equal value or a pick in next years draft that would even things up. There is nothing a hate more than a 3 for 1 deal.

[akareckas 0]

what do you look for in a trade?

 

I try to be fair when I make an offer and always ask for a counter offer to see where we stand. Every player on my tyeam has a price. If you make me a offer make it a fair one with a player of equal value or a pick in next years draft that would even things up. There is nothing a hate more than a 3 for 1 deal.

 

I look for someone who needs a player due to injury or loss of a starting job and try to fill that need while they are panicking. It is by far the easiest way to get the better player in the deal.

[bjlmonster 0]

I try to talk trade be for making any offers.

 

Look at a roster and see what you have that they may be interested in. Bottom line is percieved value of players/picks. If you just make an offer, chances are you are offering a guy they don't want or asking for a guy they won't give up. Therefore, percieved shoddy offers.

 

I do agree the 3 for 1 trade offers suck. If someone is giving up 3 guys for 1, chances are those three are average at best.

[Portis26 0]

I lowball everyone until I get a reply... then the negotiations take place to even out the trade.

[Ilov80s 0]

I am always looking and thinking about the trade. I will often make trades with a future trade in mind. It is good to try and think 1 or 2 steps ahead.

 

Selling high and buying low is a common but important thing to keep in mind while trading.

 

It is all about matching up team needs. Try and think as if you were the owner of a team you want to trade with. What is their need?

[J-Money 4]

I lowball everyone until I get a reply... then the negotiations take place to even out the trade.

 

 

And why do you guys not like 2 or 3 for one trades? I offer these up sometimes (rarely do they go through cuz people like you don't look at the big picture), but I make sure the guys at the other positions i'm giving up are upgrades to what they currently have. Say you need a wr and the guy you want to trade with is stacked there but nowhere else. He can afford to lose a top talent to upgrade his weaker positions...but then again i play IDP and it's easier to sell people on the upgrading of LB's and such when they have noone

[BrahmaBulls 268]

I lowball everyone until I get a reply... then the negotiations take place to even out the trade.

 

I don't trade with people like you

[Phurfur 70]

I lowball everyone until I get a reply... then the negotiations take place to even out the trade.

 

I don't answer lowball offers!

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 37]

I always try to do 2 player for 2 player trades and players at different positions. I.E. good RB and average WR for average RB and good WR. It just seems easier to get this type of trade done.

[ratbastard1 0]

I like 2-2s or 3-3s.

 

I look at it differently. I go in hard and overpay almost anytime i trade. I get my guy and they are far more willing to trade later. My trades win for both of us most of the time. Everyone does know that i trade this way so i usually cant ever even burn someone. Many times i act like i want the "worst" player on their team as the second player, only to drop him, just so that he doesnt think im putting a 2-1 offer as that creates another decision on his part. I also take the focus off the guy i really want who im willing to offer 2 good players for. This often can backfire and show the true worth of that player to said owner.

 

I HATE dealing with owners who cant pull the trigger if they wait to long ill pull it off the table out of principle.

[Second Place Don't Pay 0]

what do you look for in a trade?

 

I try to be fair when I make an offer and always ask for a counter offer to see where we stand. Every player on my tyeam has a price. If you make me a offer make it a fair one with a player of equal value or a pick in next years draft that would even things up. There is nothing a hate more than a 3 for 1 deal.

 

In my keeper league, I target a player I need/want to make a run at the championship and I make an aggressive bid for him. Often, I'm told I pay too much for a player, but I consistently make it to the championship game or playoffs, and I end up with a strong team nonethelesss the following year. The core of my team is untouchable (LJ, Jordan, Caddy), everyone else is up for trade.

 

In non-keepers, it totally depends on needs. I'll go lopsided, but it has to benefit me in a position of need.

 

Rockefeller, when asked how he made so much money, said, "I sold too early." I take the same philosophy into FF. If someone gets incredible short-term benefit out of a trade with me and I get what I expect, I'm happy.

[Wildman 0]

I highly recommend offering 2-for-2's and 3-for-3's, but I rarely ever accept one offered my way. In fact, I can't stand most of them offered to me in dynasty leagues. They generally come in the form of all the other guy's talent on the downside for all my upside talent. Once they realize you aren't buying and offer something more along the lines of being fair, they don't want to deal. Still, it's a good way to fish for the occassional person that takes you up on it.

 

Persistence and trying to talk about the deal you present or presented to you in as logical terms as you can is helpful. Mike MacGregor does this a lot and makes some good deals.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 37]

The real "art" of the deal is looking at his roster and figuring out what he is really targeting then getting what you want off his roster. Then enticing him by making it multiple player.

[biscuitman357 0]

Depends on the makeup of the league.

 

Some leagues you play in, no one wants to trade at all. Some leagues, you have to figure in first time FF players and watch them accordingly so they don't get fleeced, this not only ruins their experience but shifts the competitive balance of the league. Some leagues, everyone jumps the gun if their players have a bad start and wants to deal.

 

Here are my general rules of trading

 

1) Start big, end little - I tend to offer larger trades , i.e. 3 for 3, then whittle it down to the 1 for 1 I really want. This kind of disguises who you are really after and it negates the 'first offer dies' theory. Essentially the person who makes the first offer will lose out on the deal unless they factor in they will lose out on the deal. For example, I go to a yard sale and want to buy a radio thats 10 bucks, I offer 6, the guy selling counters at 8. I know I'm not paying the full 10 if I haggle, but I also know I usually don't get the price I offer first without some mitigating factor ( i.e. its end of the day) If you offer Player X for Player Y, they'll come back and say they'll cough up Player Y for your Player Z. Since the tendency anyway is to compromise in the middle, might as well make the initial offer larger , even larger than you want, then work your way down. You still get to initiate deals and you lose less leverage this way.

 

2) Exploit homerism - Some guys love their hometown players to a fault. If I know a guy is from Denver, I'll push a Rod Smith offer his way every now and then. Guys get clouded by hometown heroes and will sometimes overpay.

 

3) Trade early - Second half of the season, I notice guys are less risky. They know what they have or don't have at this point and they'll probably have a better chance grabbing a FA due to injury for help than a deal. I figure if you are gonna deal, get most of them done in the first half of the FF season. People still cling to hope and players upsides still look strong then. I think you get a better shot at a better deal early when you can use your forecasting a little more for hidden gems.

[J-Money 4]

what do you look for in a trade?

 

I try to be fair when I make an offer and always ask for a counter offer to see where we stand.

 

 

funny how booze makes me think straight but if someone offered me a decent trade and said to go ahead and offer a counter, of course i'm going to try to up him (even if I thought the offer wuz fair)... Why wouldn't you start high....mmmmmmhigh lol

[burgerific 0]

I pulled off 17 trades last season that took me from the cellar to the penthouse. I don't know if you'd call it a "secret", but one thing I try to do in almost every trade is give the other owner a choice of players on my roster. i.e.:

 

I Want:

Rudi Johnson

 

I'll Give:

Chester Taylor and

Housh or Heap

 

What I find this does is get the other owner thinking creatively and committing the the idea of trading with me. 9 times out of ten he'll come up with something that works, and usually ends up choosing a player I'm more willing to part with than another.

 

PS- Another litttle trick I've picked up is to have the owner I'm trading with include a high upside player that has been underachieving (hence, he's frustrated with him) as a "throw in" player in a bigger deal. i.e.: maybe having him throw in someone like Troy Williamson into the above trade.

[SoloMatisse 0]

Part of the beauty of making trades is getting players early before their careers start to blow up. I made a huge trade for Shaun Alexander a few years back during his rookie season in a keeper league when he wasnt playing, and all I gave up was Duce Staley. The other owner needed a back who was playing and Staley was a hot commodity. The next year Alexander emerged. My patience was rewarded. That trade probably cost me a playoff spot that year, but I wouldnt have won that league anyway, so it didnt sting too badly.

 

Last year, I wanted Larry Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. Neither were overblown just yet. I wasnt worried about what it would cost me, because my feeling was both of those guys were studs. I wouldnt let 'perceieved' cost of a trade prevent me from getting those guys. First, I went for LJ. I had Rudi Johnson on my team, just aquired in another trade, and he was hot, so I let the owner of LJ know I was looking to move Rudi. Just dropped the skinny that I would be moving him, and then gave him a few days to look over the #s and guage what hed be willing to do. He was sold on Rudi, and he had the #2 overall pick in our keeper league draft where we were keeping 6 players. I traded him Rudi Johnson straight up for Larry Johnson and his #2 overall pick, mainly because Larry wasnt yet a starter, and he wanted a proven stud RB on his team. He got him, and now so did I.

Now, Larry Fitzgerald. With that #2 overall pick in the draft, I had the ammo to deal for Fitz. Again, I called the owner of Fitz, who also has Chad Johnson, Torry Holt, and Hines Ward(and the he's a Steelers fan), and let him know I was aware that he couldnt keep Fitz, and that I wanted to make it worth his while. The guy had the 6th overall pick in the draft, so we swapped #1s which gave him the 2nd overall, and I also threw in a 3rd round pick. This is an owner not known to trade much, so I simply helped him position himself in his draft in order to get Fitzgerald, who by all accounts was not yet a coveted receiver that he would have dropped anyway. I ended up getting Cedric Benson with my first #1 pick, so I essentially traded Rudi Johnson and a 3rd round pick for Larry Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Cedric Benson.......and there's the core of my team.

 

 

So there's 2 studs that were had only because they hadnt yet quite emerged. Here's another that Im hoping will pay off.

 

Stephen Jackson. To this point, I had Willis McGahee, who I had just picked up in a trade a few weeks earlier, and Larry Johnson. One starter, and one future starter. I needed one more. I had Reggie Wayne on my team, and knew he had some nice value. The guy who had Stephen Jackson was deep at RB, and had Favre on his team and was looking to make a big push for the title last year. He already had Priest Holmes, Tiki Barber and Curtis Martin as RBs. Jackson was obviously his 4th guy. He also had Favre as his QB.....he'd ridden him for about 10 years. So, I traded Reggie Wayne for Javon Walker, went over to visit my buddy, and let him know how a Favre/Walker combo would put him over the top. Oh, my goodness. He did the deal with me, and I got Stephen Jackson, but what happened to Walker really made that trade stink for both of us. The guilt still eats at me a little. But hey, this is FF, and thats just the way the world turns. But again, I went after a guy a year before he really had done much, and didnt have to give the farm for him.

 

 

Another. Tom Brady. This is a player a good friend of mine traded me simply because I share information with him all of the time, and he knew I would continue to do so if he helped me out and moved me Tom B. I just got back into this league last year, and actually helped this owner draft his team the previous year, and one of the players I drafted for him was Carson Palmer. When I took over my new team, I was targeting either Palmer or Brady, and my friend had both of them. I knew Palmer would be a stud, so I gave the guy the hard sell on him, to reassure him that if I took Brady, whom he'd had for a couple of years, that he'd still be OK, and he wouldnt have to guess on who to start every week once Palmer started going off. He agreed. So, I traded him Jerome Bettis straight up for Tom Brady. and he'll be my starting QB probably until he retires.

 

 

Now, these are all keeper league trades, which happen a little more frequently than redraft trades. You have more time to set trades up and 'plant seeds'. Im constantly talking other owners' players up and sharing information, and I absolutely never blow smoke. If there's something I dont want another owner, I simply wont talk about it. I didnt want people getting overhyped about Larry Johnson, so I never discussed him.....until he was on my own team.

 

IMO, the bottom line to getting deals done is being fair. If you come at me with a ridiculous offer as a starting point, Im going to LAUGH at you , and either not deal with you, or force you give up way more than you want. More than likely, not deal with you for insulting me. Youve got to make fair offers and show other owners the respect they deserve. But, if you end up getting the player you want, there is no point in worrying what it cost you. Be likeable and humble, dont be arrogant, especially after trades work out in your favor, and other owners will still make future deals with you without thinking you'll be robbing them blind.

[CA_7 0]

1. Try to offer the other owner a position(s) you think he may need. I've never understood some offers I've gotten like a 4th keeper for my 1st round pick when I have three very solid keepers and the player offer was not even close to an upgrade. You must look at the deal/offer from the other owner's perspective

 

2. Sell High, Buy Low.

 

3. Respond to offers, even if you don't like them. I have been in several leagues for a few years now and there are few owners who don't have the courtesy to reply. I am not looking for an explanation, a simple "no thanks" will do. There are several owners I have blacklisted and would not even acknowledge their offers (unless it was pretty sweet ). If you are insulted by an offer than fire back and equally insulting offer or tell the person they are smoking crack.

 

4. Target guppies. Some may not agree with this but if you are in a money league go for the juggler.

[Force of Two 0]

I disagree with taunting others with bad offers if they send you a bad offer...I just cancel or say I dont think we can work something out right now.....It makes them not feel bad and might make them ripe for the taking later...this especially works for the new guys.

 

FF is about being patient with some of the clowns in the league because often fleecing them or getting a key guy is the key to winning the league or being a playoff contender

[CA_7 0]

1. Try to offer the other owner a position(s) you think he may need. I've never understood some offers I've gotten like a 4th keeper for my 1st round pick when I have three very solid keepers and the player offer was not even close to an upgrade. You must look at the deal/offer from the other owner's perspective

 

2. Sell High, Buy Low.

 

3. Respond to offers, even if you don't like them. I have been in several leagues for a few years now and there are few owners who don't have the courtesy to reply. I am not looking for an explanation, a simple "no thanks" will do. There are several owners I have blacklisted and would not even acknowledge their offers (unless it was pretty sweet ). If you are insulted by an offer than fire back and equally insulting offer or tell the person they are smoking crack.

 

4. Target guppies. Some may not agree with this but if you are in a money league go for the juggler.

 

Addtionally, if you are the one initiating interest in another owner's players, you make the offer.