Hey Commish's..... What would u do

[Ras66not99 0]

Was just watching the NFL Network and they were talking about that one season Paul Hornung had for Green Bay and how he scored 13 TD's on the ground, but was also the KICKER on the team.... I know George Blanda did this back in the day also....

 

I Was wondering what the fantasy world would do to accommodate a player like this who was not only a star offensive player, but also was the teams kicker....

 

I'm sure it will eventually surface again at some point in the future, but i'm just curious would he get the points both ways ? Would he be split in 2 and be able to be drafted twice in the draft, once as a kicker and once at his regular position ? Like Team A could have Joe SoInSO as their kicker and Team B could have Joe SoInSo as his other position ? I think as a Commish of a long standing Dynasty League I'd have to consider banning his kicking points if something like this were to happen in the future, or I don't know Just curious as to what some of you thought...

 

P.S. - ok give me a break it's the off-season and it's ONLY February, I'm trying to make the time go by quicker by conjuring up crazy scenerios

[Vikings4ever 500]

No different than any other player whose position is questionable (Michael Robinson, for example). I say if his touches are more than 10-20 percent are carries, he's listed as a RB.

[famousb 11]

i don't really see the scenario coming up again, since kickers have emerged as such a specialty. and you don't want a "star" player getting hurt kicking the ball somehow...

but i could see a guy being the backup kicker like Simenou (ok, i think it was him, and i can't spell his name) was for the Iggles 2 years ago when Akers got hurt. Came in, kicked an extra point and it was done. Or like how Flutie drop kicked the extra point/fg (can't remember which that was either)...

but you couldn't split him in two anymore than you split a defensive player in two (in IDP) that comes in and plays TE (like Julius Peppers), or WR (like Deion used to) and scores a few TDs... it's just something people have to consider while drafting... like how rec's change things all around in PPR leagues... or RBs throwing halfback passes...

[The Moose 0]

I think if a player plays 2 positions, he must be played at the position that typically generates more points. This is why Colston had to be a WR and not a TE, because it's unfair how he scored more like a WR than a TE. In this scenario, he would be drafted as a RB and his kicking points would count. That's at least more fair than having a kicker that scores touchdowns, because that's a huge advantage.

[Parja 0]

I think if a player plays 2 positions, he must be played at the position that typically generates more points. This is why Colston had to be a WR and not a TE, because it's unfair how he scored more like a WR than a TE. In this scenario, he would be drafted as a RB and his kicking points would count. That's a least more fair than having a kicker that scores touchdowns, because that's a huge advantage.

 

Colston's a horrible example because he doesn't play TE.

[Ras66not99 0]

In this scenario, he would be drafted as a RB and his kicking points would count. That's at least more fair than having a kicker that scores touchdowns, because that's a huge advantage.

It's actually the same thing no ?

 

I mean the guy was a star halfback that did both.... piling on all the kicking points is a HUGE advantage any way you look at it.... He'd arguably be the first pick in the draft but def top 2.... Lets say he only scores 8 Td's on the year and tacks on the league average for kickers which is "probably" about 110 points that would be 158 points equivilent to 26+ Td's on the year and that's not counting his yardage production and receptions/yards out of the backfield... Fantasy Lethal, NO ?

 

No different than any other player whose position is questionable (Michael Robinson, for example). I say if his touches are more than 10-20 percent are carries, he's listed as a RB.

So you're saying you'd accept him in fantasy as an RB and allow his kicking points to count as well as his Rb numbers ? So you'd have this guy on your team and also have another kicker in your kicker slot ? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone, just asking people's opinions is all....

 

I think he'd have to be the first pick in the fantasy draft no ?

 

You couldn't split him in two anymore than you split a defensive player in two (in IDP) that comes in and plays TE (like Julius Peppers), or WR (like Deion used to) and scores a few TDs... it's just something people have to consider while drafting... like how rec's change things all around in PPR leagues... or RBs throwing halfback passes...

I run my own IDP Dynasty (for about 15 years now) I have my own website and do it the Old school way and post it all on the site myself.... (I know I'm nuts) but anyway I do not allow defensive players to get offensive player points and visa versa.... so in actuality an owner in my league (if they really wanted) could draft Julius Peppers "again" and use him as a TE if they were stupid enough (no one would ever do that) well unless he really became an offensive force in the future which is highly unlikely.... I keep my offense and defense numbers totally separate, so if Peppers were to score a TD playing TE the guy that started him at DE wouldn't get that....

[t.j 35]

I'm in the camp that you'd have to allow him as a RB and include the kicking points.

If you're really concerned about a guy's value going through the roof because of the extra kicking points, maybe you should re-evaluate how many points you give for FGs and XPs... perhaps get rid of kicking points all together, or change the system such that you get nothing for XPs, a small amount (i.e. 1 pt) for short FGs, and lose points for missed short FGs.

[BMoney 0]

doug flutie got credit for his extra point in our league 2 years ago..so why not a regular player kicking?

 

this is why i list this ornery bastage on the all time best RB lists....

 

but i wondered if u meant..what if u had a player who bet on sports and was banned for a season

[Parja 0]

So you're saying you'd accept him in fantasy as an RB and allow his kicking points to count as well as his Rb numbers ? So you'd have this guy on your team and also have another kicker in your kicker slot ? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone, just asking people's opinions is all....

 

Do you count LT's or Randle El's points when they throw a TD? How is this any different?

 

Players count as the position for which they're officially listed.

[The Moose 0]

It's actually the same thing no ?

 

I mean the guy was a star halfback that did both.... piling on all the kicking points is a HUGE advantage any way you look at it.... He'd arguably be the first pick in the draft but def top 2.... Lets say he only scores 8 Td's on the year and tacks on the league average for kickers which is "probably" about 110 points that would be 158 points equivilent to 26+ Td's on the year and that's not counting his yardage production and receptions/yards out of the backfield... Fantasy Lethal, NO ?

 

No, it's definitely not the same thing. Let's say this guy averages 20 fantasy points a game. Playing him as a kicker would give you at least a 12 point advantage over having an average kicker. Playing him as a RB1 would be maybe a 5 point advantage over the average RB1 at most.

 

So you're saying you'd accept him in fantasy as an RB and allow his kicking points to count as well as his Rb numbers ? So you'd have this guy on your team and also have another kicker in your kicker slot ? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone, just asking people's opinions is all....

 

I think he'd have to be the first pick in the fantasy draft no ?

 

I really think you're overestimating his value. Even with 10 TDs, 1600 yards, and 100 points kicking (which are generous estimates IMO) he would have only been the 4th ranked RB in 2006.

[Ras66not99 0]

Players count as the position for which they're officially listed.

Yeah but by that theory the guy would be the starting RB and the starting kicker, know what i'm saying ?

[t.j 35]

Yeah but by that theory the guy would be the starting RB and the starting kicker, know what i'm saying ?

 

No, he'd be officially listed at one or the other, most likely RB.

[Ras66not99 0]

No, it's definitely not the same thing. Let's say this guy averages 20 fantasy points a game. Playing him as a kicker would give you at least a 12 point advantage over having an average kicker. Playing him as a RB1 would be maybe a 5 point advantage over the average RB1 at most.

I really think you're overestimating his value. Even with 10 TDs, 1600 yards, and 100 points kicking (which are generous estimates IMO) he would have only been the 4th ranked RB in 2006.

Ah I gotcha.... You meant like if he was starting in your "kickers slot" and he was getting rushing TD's, yards, etc....

 

I guess I am overestimating him a little but let's assume he's a 1600 total yards RB type like you said and he does put up 110 points which is pretty average season for a kicker. (I took a peek and saw 23 kickers had over 100 points this year so 110 is a fair estimate to give him if he was a starting kicker somewhere)

 

Anyway make our "phantom player" a 1,500 total yard RB, so he'd be like a Rudi Johnson, Chester Taylor, type etc.... It's very hard to gage fantasy numbers due to scoring systems being so "varied/different" and all that but 110 points is still equivalent to over 18 additional TD's, so if he runs for 10 Td's like you said, he'd be a guy that runs for 1,300 on the ground, 200 in the air with some receps, and 28 Td's..... I guess it would matter if it's a PPR league to determine if he'd be a top 3 guy.... It's the LT's, SJax, Westy's of the fantasy world that are dominating right now because they're dual threats like owning an RB and WR with one slot, so I guess our phantom guy would be a triple threat...(assuming he can catch out of the backfield)

 

Oh well like I said, just a scenario I thought up because it's February and I'm bored..... all in good fun

[Ras66not99 0]

Do you count LT's or Randle El's points when they throw a TD? How is this any different?

I think it's totally different, but I guess it's just me

 

I know offensive guys do different things on the offensive side of the ball, (on occasion) like throw for TD's, run for Td's, catch TD's and that wouldn't matter what their position is whether it be (Qb/Rb/Wr even K), but this guy would officially be playing two positions... It's not like he's an RB that splits out wide a lot during the game (ala REGGIE BUSH), or a Wr that takes a reverse or two every game (ala JAVON WALKER) he's the teams kicker (a position all by himself aside from his other duties)

[keeptwo 0]

No, he'd be officially listed at one or the other, most likely RB.

 

In my league if one's running back throws for a score,runs one in,catches a score,recovers a fumble and takes it in,kicks in a three pointer,kicks a point after and throws,runs or catches to score on a conversion he would get all of those points as long as he is on the field with the offensive unit.Of course you would be starting another kicker from another team to fill that line-up spot.This obviously would never happen.Also,in this system you could start two tight ends,one at reciever and one to fill the tight end slot if your savy enough to have that sort of talent or in need during a bye week but no wideout/slot reciever can start at the tight end position.Logical.

[LunaTick 29]

Our leagues rules are that if a qb rushes or receives a td its is scored as a td.

 

But having said that, we don't recognize return tds.

 

But having said that we do recognize 2 pt conversions.

 

So to answer your question, I am not certain how we would handle a kicker rushing/passing a td.

 

Now if it were the punter, f him.

[listen2me 23 1,592]

If you start him as your HB than he gets those pts....if you start him as your kicker you get those points....I think the only thing here is he could be drafted as 1 player but played at K and HB.....just like in the NFL he is 1 player but they would play him at Kicker and HB....So if you only started him as HB and say Akers at Kicker this throwback player would only be used at HB and only recieve RB pts....but you could start him at both HB and K.

[Cuse9 128]

In that situation, he would have to be drafted as a rb. It's the only fair thing to do.

[Ras66not99 0]

In that situation, he would have to be drafted as a rb. It's the only fair thing to do.

Yeah but if you declare him a running back are you still rewarding him with the kicking points he piles up along with his normal RB numbers ?

[T-Bird1 0]

Our league runs fairly basic, you score what you score, regardless of position, so if a QB runs or catches a td then he scores the same as if he were an RB. LT threw a couple and caught a couple last year and was 'rewarded' accordingly.

 

Our rule is simply that the player plays at the position, as recorded on the teams official roster. We had a situation a few years before I joined where a guy wanted to start Kordell Stewart as a WR because the Steelers were reported to be starting him there. But as Pitt had him listed as QB, this was a no-no.

 

So to answer the question, if 'Hornung' is listed as RB then he plays as RB but WILL get the kicking points as well, so effectively his team would be starting 2 kickers!!

 

I like things nice'n'easy

[dominus florenzus 0]

You'd have to make 2 Paul Hornungs. Why? Because it is nothing like LT2 throwing a pass, or Steve Smith running a reverse, or a QB catching a touchdown pass.... this is because K and RB are special teams and offense, not offense and offense. Any offensive skill positions player can theoretically score points in 3 different ways on any play - throwing, receiving, rushing. But special teams is an entirely different domain.

 

When you draft a WR or RB who also returns kicks, do you give him KR yardage and TD points also? In my leagues, whoever had Reggie Bush did not get his return TDs...No, that would all go to whoever has the Saints D/ST. And in FF, there are two positions for special teams... your D/ST unit, and your Kicker.

 

If Reggie Bush can score some points as Reggie Bush the RB, and score other points as Reggie Bush of the Saints D/ST, then Paul Hornung should be split also. It only makes sense.... 2 different modes of the game - one player who can score in both modes, points are divided - keep it consistent.

[Vikings4ever 500]

You'd have to make 2 Paul Hornungs. Why? Because it is nothing like LT2 throwing a pass, or Steve Smith running a reverse, or a QB catching a touchdown pass.... this is because K and RB are special teams and offense, not offense and offense. Any offensive skill positions player can theoretically score points in 3 different ways on any play - throwing, receiving, rushing. But special teams is an entirely different domain.

 

When you draft a WR who also returns kicks, do you give him KR yardage and TD points also? No, that would all go to the D/ST unit that you draft.

 

Same principle would hold for a kicker who also plays RB. 2 different modes of the game - keep it consistent.

1. Some leagues score return yards/TDs for the individual players. So your example wouldn't apply.

2. A play doesn't become a special teams lay until the ball is actually kicked. Until then, it's still an offensive play. That's why kickers who throw or run the ball in on fake field goals get the points, and the unit doesn't. Ditto for the holder.

[listen2me 23 1,592]

I dont get whats so hard....

 

There is one player so he is drafted once.....not once as a Kicker and once as a RB

 

The person who drafted this player either starts him at Kicker or at RB, Or he can start him at both...like a REAL team does..BUT you cannot start him at RB and get his Kicker pts while you also have started a different Kicker at Kicker...basically you cant start 2 kickers...

[dominus florenzus 0]

1. Some leagues score return yards/TDs for the individual players. So your example wouldn't apply.

Yeah, I played in a few like that. It was nice having the Bears D/ST and Devin Hester as my IDP... getting double points for a single action. I took advantage of how the league was set up, but the set up is stupid.

 

2. A play doesn't become a special teams lay until the ball is actually kicked. Until then, it's still an offensive play. That's why kickers who throw or run the ball in on fake field goals get the points, and the unit doesn't. Ditto for the holder.

Ok, I see your point. Is there a problem with those points going to Paul Hornung the RB (offensive player) in those cases?

 

 

I dont get whats so hard....

 

There is one player so he is drafted once.....not once as a Kicker and once as a RB

 

The person who drafted this player either starts him at Kicker or at RB, Or he can start him at both...like a REAL team does..BUT you cannot start him at RB and get his Kicker pts while you also have started a different Kicker at Kicker...basically you cant start 2 kickers...

The problem with that is then your kicker is like a 3rd RB. It's going to generate the same complaints that Colston at TE did with Yahoo leagues this year.