A.I. is a beast!

[Eagles Green 34]

Andre Iguodala!!! Triple Double!

 

24 pts. 11 reb. 10 ast. This guy is becoming a superstar.

 

5 straight wins for the Sixers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There goes the lottery pick.

[JT 137]

He's just good enough to be the best player on a bad team. Watch and see.

[Cdub100 3,418]

He's just good enough to be the best player on a bad team. Watch and see.

 

No kidding the phrase dime a dozen comes to mind

[JT 137]

No kidding the phrase dime a dozen comes to mind

 

He's ok. A second scorer on a team that wins more than it loses, a third scorer on a really good team. Think Shawn Marion without the gay looking jumper.

[Cdub100 3,418]

He's ok. A second scorer on a team that wins more than it loses, a third scorer on a really good team. Think Shawn Marion without the gay looking jumper.

I think Marion is a reach. You hit the nail on the head though. A good player on a bad team.

[adam smitty 0]

He's ok. A second scorer on a team that wins more than it loses, a third scorer on a really good team. Think Shawn Marion without the gay looking jumper.

Marion is one of the best players in the league, AI isnt even in his tier yet.

[Chronic Husker 85]

Marion is one of the best players in the league, AI isnt even in his tier yet.

[Eagles Green 34]

Marion is one of the best players in the league, AI isnt even in his tier yet.

Yet

[MDC 5,931]

Andre Igoudala has been playing terrific. My favorite thing about him is that Igoudala has been putting up 20+ points per game taking around 17 shots per game (more tonight). He's an efficient scorer, unlike Iverson who is either lights out or needs to shoot the ball 30 times per game to get his. It's no coincidence that everyone on this team got better once they traded Iverson and brought in a real point guard. I'd like a high lottery pick but it's a deep draft and guys like AI, Dalembert and Korver improving is going to help the team more than a few extra ping pong balls next season.

 

They're finally interesting to watch again.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

Sixer fan, you want Iverson back, he has done nothing good here. We miss Andre Miller.

[Chronic Husker 85]

Sixer fan, you want Iverson back, he has done nothing good here. We miss Andre Miller.

 

Wrong. AI isn't Denver's problem.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

 

Wrong. AI isn't Denver's problem.

There are a lot of problems on this team. I am assuming you are watching right now against GS and the 11 point 3rd quarter. The ball doesn't flow like it did when Miller was here, plus all the easy buckets he created via the ally oop and fast break points.

[Eagles Green 34]

There are a lot of problems on this team. I am assuming you are watching right now against GS and the 11 point 3rd quarter. The ball doesn't flow like it did when Miller was here, plus all the easy buckets he created via the ally oop and fast break points.

But you have The Answer.

 

 

 

 

 

I bet crime rates are up

.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

But you have The Answer.

 

I bet crime rates are up

.

He hasn't been the solution.

[Chronic Husker 85]

He hasn't been the solution.

Yeah, I know. But think about it. Denver hasn't had all their players together at all. I don't expect anything out of this year's team. How can you? Melo has been suspended and fighting with Karl. Camby's been injured. JR Smith has been suspended and injured. AI has only played part of the year with the team. Nene has been hurt. On and on.

 

Denver fans are the worst. Have some focking patience. Denver won't get a better coach than Karl here. Probably won't improve the roster much, either.

 

I'm hoping that Kenyon comes back next year and resembles the Nets Kenyon, even if just on the defensive blocks.

 

Starting lineup:

 

AI

JR Smith

Melo

Kenyon

Camby

 

6th man: Nene

 

Najera, Evans, Kleiza, DeMarr, and Blake can fight for the rest of the minutes.

 

That's a team I want to go to the playoffs with. The only fear I have is that there's so many impatient crybaby fans in Denver that either Karl gets run out of town or the team is forced to dump talent for the sake of change.

[Eagles Green 34]

He hasn't been the solution.

At least you didn't give up your 1st round pick.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

Yeah, I know. But think about it. Denver hasn't had all their players together at all. I don't expect anything out of this year's team. How can you? Melo has been suspended and fighting with Karl. Camby's been injured. JR Smith has been suspended and injured. AI has only played part of the year with the team. Nene has been hurt. On and on.

 

Denver fans are the worst. Have some focking patience. Denver won't get a better coach than Karl here. Probably won't improve the roster much, either.

 

I'm hoping that Kenyon comes back next year and resembles the Nets Kenyon, even if just on the defensive blocks.

 

Starting lineup:

 

AI

JR Smith

Melo

Kenyon

Camby

 

6th man: Nene

 

Najera, Evans, Kleiza, DeMarr, and Blake can fight for the rest of the minutes.

 

That's a team I want to go to the playoffs with. The only fear I have is that there's so many impatient crybaby fans in Denver that either Karl gets run out of town or the team is forced to dump talent for the sake of change.

 

Here is the problem, why would any of these guys start being healthy now? Kenyon has had the same surgery as Amare and Zach Randolph who both came back and were strong after their knee surgery. Kenyon hasn't played like he cares. Which is basically the problem with this team. They don't jump out on pick and rolls, they don't move the ball on offense, they rely on Camby to get the rebounds and block shots. Melo has the talent to be a double double kind of guy, but doesn't care about passing, rebounding or playing defense and he is supposed to be the "star" of this team.

 

Now that AI is here, the team relies on Melo and him to do all of the scoring. No one moves without the ball, we don't really have a great outside shooter. JR Smith is close, but not very reliable at this stage in his career.

 

The tickets in the lower bowl cost 120 bucks, and I expect them to at least give me an effort. I have been to several games this year and have left pissed off due to their lack of hustle and really just not caring.

 

I am a big George Karl fan and don't blame him for what this team is doing. I liked it when we had Miller, it seemed everyone was more involved in the game and he was a good on ball defender which made everyone a better defensive player.

[Chronic Husker 85]

I liked Miller a lot, too. But this team has a much better chance of being a contender next year than this year.

 

Like I said, I hope Kenyon comes back to form, defensively. If not, Denver will get a post player in return for him. I really love the potential of JR Smith.

 

I've also seen Melo play tough defense (when he tries). If he gets put in a position where Denver can succeed, I have faith he'll put in a real effort (hell, he did it at Syracuse).

 

You were complaining about AI. He's not the problem. I don't think there's any question that he's already the team leader.

 

Have patience.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

I liked Miller a lot, too. But this team has a much better chance of being a contender next year than this year.

 

Like I said, I hope Kenyon comes back to form, defensively. If not, Denver will get a post player in return for him. I really love the potential of JR Smith.

 

I've also seen Melo play tough defense (when he tries). If he gets put in a position where Denver can succeed, I have faith he'll put in a real effort (hell, he did it at Syracuse).

 

You were complaining about AI. He's not the problem. I don't think there's any question that he's already the team leader.

 

Have patience.

I like the potential of JR as well and he has done more then I expected out of him this year. Melo had more double doubles in his one year at Cuse then he has had in his entire time in Denver so far (4th season). He has the potential to do it, just needs to want to do it. That is my problem with him.

 

I think we hurt our team more so then helped the team when we lost Andre. If we had a true point guard that we could rely on for 35 minutes a game (Steve Blake isn't that guy) I would be more satisfied with AI on this team.

 

The talent is there, no question, especially now that Nene is occasionaly playing like a good player. Just need the effort to come around.

[Chronic Husker 85]

So, first you blame AI for not being the solution. Then, you shift to blaming team effort.

 

Remind me never to meet up with you.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

So, first you blame AI for not being the solution. Then, you shift to blaming team effort.

 

Remind me never to meet up with you.

AI hasn't been the solution. Since he has joined this roster the team has showed little effort and heart, something they had more of when Andre Miller was here.

 

Obviously you are not one for watching the Nuggets.

 

You won't need a reminder for a meet, it was never going to be a question.

[Chronic Husker 85]

Might as well quit paying for your $120 tickets, then.

 

I have a feeling you won't. You'll just cry like the rest of the bandwagoners when things aren't going so great, but when the Nuggets get on a roll you'll be the first to tell everyone about how they're "your" team.

 

[Mile High Drunk 13]

Might as well quit paying for your $120 tickets, then.

 

I have a feeling you won't. You'll just cry like the rest of the bandwagoners when things aren't going so great, but when the Nuggets get on a roll you'll be the first to tell everyone about how they're "your" team.

 

I think the outspoken people are the ones who have been fans and expect a good product.

 

I am guessing you will be on of the people saying "The Rockies will be good, just give it time" as you watch 2 or 3 games a year on tv while people like myself are at the game spending money on tickets and beer and want to see them do something with the dollar I am putting in their pocket.

[Chronic Husker 85]

I think the outspoken people are the ones who have been fans and except a good product.

I'll give you credit for one thing. You're good at excepting a good product.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

I'll give you credit for one thing. You're good at excepting a good product.

[JT 137]

Marion is one of the best players in the league, AI isnt even in his tier yet.

 

Marion plays with Nash and Stoudamire, not to mention at least 3 other guys who would be stars on a crappy team like Philly. Put Marion in the star role, and you'd see what I'm talking about. Cut out the baskets he gets on run outs because he has a shot blocker behing him and plays in that system. Cut out the points generated by the deer-in-headlights backpedaling that every defender in the league does when Nash is in the open court. Cut out the open shots created by the presence of Nash & Stoudamire. Expose his weaknesses as a ball handler by making him create his own shots.

 

There's nothing terribly wrong with his game, but Marion looks better because of his situation. Swap him straight up for Iguodala and you'd swear nothing had changed on either team.

 

There are dozens of guys in the NBA capable of putting up the numbers Iguodala does on a bad team, or matching what Marion does on a really good team. That's why guys like Boris Diaw look so great with significant playing time in Phoenix, but the rest of the league isn't tripping over themselves to try and get him.

[Chronic Husker 85]

Marion plays with Nash and Stoudamire, not to mention at least 3 other guys who would be stars on a crappy team like Philly. Put Marion in the star role, and you'd see what I'm talking about. Cut out the baskets he gets on run outs because he has a shot blocker behing him and plays in that system. Cut out the points generated by the deer-in-headlights backpedaling that every defender in the league does when Nash is in the open court. Cut out the open shots created by the presence of Nash & Stoudamire. Expose his weaknesses as a ball handler by making him create his own shots.

 

There's nothing terribly wrong with his game, but Marion looks better because of his situation. Swap him straight up for Iguodala and you'd swear nothing had changed on either team.

 

There are dozens of guys in the NBA capable of putting up the numbers Iguodala does on a bad team, or matching what Marion does on a really good team. That's why guys like Boris Diaw look so great with significant playing time in Phoenix, but the rest of the league isn't tripping over themselves to try and get him.

Disagree with this. Marion is the number one ranked fantasy player, overall. Ranked higher than LeBron. Ranked higher than Kobe. Ranked higher than Wade.

 

Steve Nash doesn't get Marion's rebounds. Nash doesn't dish Marion's assists. Nash isn't completely responsible for Marion's solid assist/turnover ratio.

 

Marion is a great player and an Olympian. Iguodala may be a nice player, but he's not in Marion's league.

[JT 137]

Disagree with this. Marion is the number one ranked fantasy player, overall. Ranked higher than LeBron. Ranked higher than Kobe. Ranked higher than Wade.

 

Steve Nash doesn't get Marion's rebounds. Nash doesn't dish Marion's assists. Nash isn't completely responsible for Marion's solid assist/turnover ratio.

 

Marion is a great player and an Olympian. Iguodala may be a nice player, but he's not in Marion's league.

 

Marion has far more experience, which is a huge advantage. He's also a better defender than Iguodala is, or probably will be. Marion is a more accurate shooter. But young scorers tend to improve their shooting % as they work at that aspect of the game and learn to take better shots. And it would be silly to say that the syystem in Phoenix doesn't contribute mightily to that FG%.

 

Let's look at the rest of the numbers. Marion averages 18.3 ppg (career 18.7); Iguodala 18. Iguodala is averaging triple the assists that Marion is (or has in his career) 5.7 to 1.7. Steals? Equal. Iguodala is a better FT shooter, Marion a far better rebounder.

 

But if you don't acknowledge that the situation in Phoenix contributes to a players stat line, you're just not paying attention. Marion, as the #1 option in Philly instead of Iguodala, would have slightly better numbers than he has now, and the team would still suck. Iguodala, in Phoenix, would have the same kind of numbers and the team would still be really good.

 

My intent at the beginning of this discussion wasn't to say that Iguodala is as good or better than Marion. In fact, my first comments were that Iguoldala is nothing that special. Is Marion? I won't argue that he's not better than Iguodala. But he's not anything terribly special. #1 fantasy player? Great. Of course, the operative word is fantasy. Olympian? That's certainly a proud designation in the US these days.

[Riddlen 1]

Marion seems pretty good

[Chronic Husker 85]

#1 fantasy player? Great. Of course, the operative word is fantasy. Olympian? That's certainly a proud designation in the US these days.

I knew this was coming.

 

My point is that Marion is an all-around player that few can compare to these days. Of course having Nash dish you the ball and Stoudemire back you up on defense can't hurt. Of course Marion would have a tougher time on a crap team.

 

But I'll stick with my opinion that Marion is a great player - one of the best in the league. Stat-wise, I don't think anyone compares with him since Larry Nance in his prime.

[Team Revell 0]

Here is an indepth breakdown of Iguadola for those of you who are interested-

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6524876

 

Rosen is very very opinionated but does a great job of breaking down the X's and O's and things that don't show up in the stat line. He is harsh in his criticisms, but his evaluations of players strengths and weaknesses are outstanding.

 

 

 

I knew this was coming.

 

My point is that Marion is an all-around player that few can compare to these days. Of course having Nash dish you the ball and Stoudemire back you up on defense can't hurt. Of course Marion would have a tougher time on a crap team.

 

But I'll stick with my opinion that Marion is a great player - one of the best in the league. Stat-wise, I don't think anyone compares with him since Larry Nance in his prime.

 

Hey I remember you. Didn't we used to argue about the NBA?

 

Still think the Mavs are soft, play no defense, and suck?

[Chronic Husker 85]

Hey I remember you. Didn't we used to argue about the NBA?

 

Still think the Mavs are soft, play no defense, and suck?

They completely changed their style because criticisms like mine were dead on. You just wouldn't accept it.

 

It's a different team.

[JT 137]

I knew this was coming.

 

My point is that Marion is an all-around player that few can compare to these days. Of course having Nash dish you the ball and Stoudemire back you up on defense can't hurt. Of course Marion would have a tougher time on a crap team.

 

But I'll stick with my opinion that Marion is a great player - one of the best in the league. Stat-wise, I don't think anyone compares with him since Larry Nance in his prime.

 

OK, you get BIG points for mentioning Larry Nance.

 

Different style players, but both good at filling the stat sheet. Nance may have been the best leaper from a dead start that ever played.

[Team Revell 0]

They completely changed their style because criticisms like mine were dead on. You just wouldn't accept it.

 

It's a different team.

 

Our argument took place after they released Nash and picked up Dampier and hired Avery Johnson. I argued that they were improving defensively enough to be a contender. You argued that Dirk was too soft and no team lead by him would ever contend for a championship.