Go Raiders?

[football_scooter 0]

In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases.

* The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.

* The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).

* The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.

* The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.

* Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.

 

1. There is some logic that says all of the above points would be true, and should be. Any case in which the DA/State is going to seek capital automatically get extra attention to dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's", so it would follow that the investigation would in turn cost more. When proposing taking someones life, you should probably make sure everything is right.

2. If some dude roughs up his wife and is seen by her sister, her mom and every other relative there, a case like will be resolve much more quickly, and therefore much more inexpensively than going after the death penalty, as mentioned in item #1. I'd be curious to see something more relevant like a comparison of cases involving the same charge (ie Murder in the 1st) that are life in prison vs same crime w/ death penalty. My guess is the costs would be much closer.

3. Of course they're gonna appeal more, when faced with living vs dying, well, most of us would fight for life.

4. Last two points should addressed by 1-3 above.

 

I like the facts, but would like to see more apples to apples comparisons rather than #'s that are obviously skewed by opponents of the death penalty.

 

Outstanding post. It's a rarity when you & I agree 100% on anything, but you're spot on here. This is the exact fallacy I refer to.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Outstanding post. It's a rarity when you & I agree 100% on anything, but you're spot on here. This is the exact fallacy I refer to.

 

I think Hell just froze over...

[football_scooter 0]

I think Hell just froze over...

 

I thought it was a little chilly down here.

[jgcrawfish 232]

FWIW (back to our typical MO of disagreeing on everything):

 

welch (wělsh, wělch) Pronunciation Key

intr.v. welshed also welched, welsh·ing also welch·ing, welsh·es also welch·es Informal

 

1. To swindle a person by not paying a debt or wager.

2. To fail to fulfill an obligation.

 

Doesn't say anything about 5/6 of a payment or stalking trolls...

[Sho Nuff 720]

Outstanding post. It's a rarity when you & I agree 100% on anything, but you're spot on here. This is the exact fallacy I refer to.

 

Except that it is not a fallacy...it is showing that trying the case costs more...it is shown in other states that housing them costs more as well.

 

And I notice you bring not one link to support your opinion that its a fallacy, not one actual fact to support that its a fallacy. Why? Because you have none. You chose instead to just insult anyone who disagrees with you...a common theme with your posts.

[football_scooter 0]

FWIW (back to our typical MO of disagreeing on everything):

 

welch (wělsh, wělch) Pronunciation Key

intr.v. welshed also welched, welsh·ing also welch·ing, welsh·es also welch·es Informal

 

1. To swindle a person by not paying a debt or wager.

2. To fail to fulfill an obligation.

 

Doesn't say anything about 5/6 of a payment or stalking trolls...

 

 

Fact is that I still might honor the last month of the bet...nothing said it had to be 6 concurrent months. But so long as Sho Muff keeps stalking me into topics, the payoff is on hold.

 

So technically I haven't welched on anything. That would imply no payment whatsoever and no attempt to make restitution on said wager.

 

I've lost several sig bets on this forum and have paid every single one in full. I have the reputation as someone who doesn't welch on bets, and this is no exception.

 

We'll see if captain crazy and his trolling ways can avoid harassing me or ruining a topic I start for a week...if that happens, the sig will revert to the final month of our bet. But so long as he continues to act like a trolling stalking fockstick, my signature will accurately reflect that.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Except that it is not a fallacy...it is showing that trying the case costs more...it is shown in other states that housing them costs more as well.

 

And I notice you bring not one link to support your opinion that its a fallacy, not one actual fact to support that its a fallacy. Why? Because you have none. You chose instead to just insult anyone who disagrees with you...a common theme with your posts.

 

At this point 'Sho, I'll accept that the cost is greater simply because the consequence is greater. It's obvious there is no perfect system...since castration and frontal lobotomies aren't allowed anymore (where's Chief from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest when you need him?). I don't buy into the killing prison guards and escaping thing that was pointed out, simply doesn't happen very often. My point is that we are entirely too civil to people who do not deserve it, and if there are no other options for rehabilitation or to ease prison overcrowding for these animals, what then?

 

 

Fact is that I still might honor the last month of the bet...nothing said it had to be 6 concurrent months. But so long as Sho Muff keeps stalking me into topics, the payoff is on hold.

 

So technically I haven't welched on anything. That would imply no payment whatsoever and no attempt to make restitution on said wager.

 

I've lost several sig bets on this forum and have paid every single one in full. I have the reputation as someone who doesn't welch on bets, and this is no exception.

 

We'll see if captain crazy and his trolling ways can avoid harassing me or ruining a topic I start for a week...if that happens, the sig will revert to the final month of our bet. But so long as he continues to act like a trolling stalking fockstick, my signature will accurately reflect that.

 

Thanks for not crucifying me just for disagreeing...appreciate that!

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

Fact is that I still might honor the last month of the bet...nothing said it had to be 6 concurrent months. But so long as Sho Muff keeps stalking me into topics, the payoff is on hold.

 

So technically I haven't welched on anything. That would imply no payment whatsoever and no attempt to make restitution on said wager.

 

I've lost several sig bets on this forum and have paid every single one in full. I have the reputation as someone who doesn't welch on bets, and this is no exception.

 

We'll see if captain crazy and his trolling ways can avoid harassing me or ruining a topic I start for a week...if that happens, the sig will revert to the final month of our bet. But so long as he continues to act like a trolling stalking fockstick, my signature will accurately reflect that.

 

A. No stalking going on except for you...your sig...and your starting into me before I even acknowledged you in this thread.

B. The only one ruining threads is you. This thread was going along fine with no insults before you had to spout off at me.

C. Its pretty well a given that a sig bet is for concurrent months...no amount of your spin will change the fact that you have welched on this current bet because you got your panties in a wad.

 

The facts show it is you stalking me...it is you ruining threads...is is you who is a confirmed welcher.

 

At this point 'Sho, I'll accept that the cost is greater simply because the consequence is greater. It's obvious there is no perfect system...since castration and frontal lobotomies aren't allowed anymore (where's Chief from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest when you need him?). I don't buy into the killing prison guards and escaping thing that was pointed out, simply doesn't happen very often. My point is that we are entirely too civil to people who do not deserve it, and if there are no other options for rehabilitation or to ease prison overcrowding for these animals, what then?

 

 

I agree that there is no perfect system. And as I indicated earlier...the cost is not the reason I disagree with the death penalty at all.

 

To ease prison overcrowding...many answers for that...the ridiculous sentences for minor drug crimes would do wonders with that. I don't think its the life in prison for murder crowd filling up these prisons. Nor would it if the few that are executed every year were in for life instead.

 

But at least you know how to debate and speak in a civil manner...it would be nice if another poster could follow suit.

[football_scooter 0]

compulsive response laced with projection and general d0uchebaggery, as anticipated and even predicted.

 

I am irony incarnate in coming into yet another football_scooter topic and taking the exact opposite stance of his presumably to troll for his responses. Then I simply claim that everything I have been doing is what he does. Brilliant!

 

time until next compulsive delusional stalking troll response t-minus 5.....4......3......2......1.......*

 

spot on.

 

Thanks for not crucifying me just for disagreeing...appreciate that!

 

contrary to sho muff's constant projections of me, (as he does in the very post above this - how ironic) I never take issue with someone just for disagreeing with me. What a boring world this would be if everyone agreed about everything. This board would be worthless without debate.

[Fumbleweed 555]

A. No stalking going on except for you...your sig...and your starting into me before I even acknowledged you in this thread.

 

I took a look at this and this is true....scooter, you are the one in this thread that began slinging mud at Sho...not the other way around. I'm not saying that's always the case.....just pointing out this instance.

 

I'm not going to close this thread at this point. But, please cut this out, guys. Thanks.

[football_scooter 0]

I took a look at this and this is true....scooter, you are the one in this thread that began slinging mud at Sho...not the other way around. I'm not saying that's always the case.....just pointing out this instance.

 

I'm not going to close this thread at this point. But, please cut this out, guys. Thanks.

 

Sho shows up in yet another of my topics taking the exact opposite stance as me.

 

coincidence? I think not. Perhaps in this topic it appears as such, but the cumulative effect indicates otherwise.

 

feel free to lock it - I've pwnd him enough for today.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Sho shows up in yet another of my topics taking the exact opposite stance as me.

 

coincidence? I think not. Perhaps in this topic it appears as such, but the cumulative effect indicates otherwise.

 

feel free to lock it - I've pwnd him enough for today.

 

And again I point out I never even acknowledged your existence in this thread...I never even noticed you were the starter of it.

 

I took the opposite stance of you because that is my belief. You can check my history of posts here and any time I have discussed it (usually in abortion threads as people try to label that most people that are pro-life or against abortion...as I happen to be against abortion yet not completely inline with the prolife stance...are often also for the death penalty).

 

But, you think it has something to do with you...which is the furthest thing from the truth. Now a mod has told you that you are wrong...and you still live in denial. You changed your sig because you were owned by a poll calling you a welcher...and when was the last time you even discussed the actual topic of this thread?

 

 

Exactly...the only owning here today is you getting it...again.

 

Now...back to the topic...have any facts to support your contention that my thoughts on the costs of death vs. life being a fallacy?

[football_scooter 0]

And again I point out I never even acknowledged your existence in this thread...I never even noticed you were the starter of it.

Lie #1

 

But, you think it has something to do with you...which is the furthest thing from the truth.

Lie #2

 

You changed your sig because you were owned by a poll calling you a welcher...and when was the last time you even discussed the actual topic of this thread?

Lie #3 - I changed my sig because you stalked me in 3 straight topics I'd started and I got sick of it. I added the bit about defining welching (which you obviously haven't a clue on) after your moronic troll poll.

 

Exactly...the only owning here today is me getting pwnd...again.

agreed.

 

Now...back to the topic...have any facts to support your contention that my thoughts on the costs of death vs. life being a fallacy?

 

Yep - already provided them twice. Try looking beyond generalizations and the skewed statistics of the anti-death penalty crowd and it should be painfully obvious. Capital punishment would be a hell of a lot cheaper if those beyond rehabilitation were simply put to death as sentenced and not allowed to clutter our legal system with worthless and costly appeals. So of course it costs more - because instead of carrying out the sentencing, they are kept alive for years while also wasting money in the courts. neither of these is a direct cost of the death penalty, but rather a self fulfilling prophecy of the anti-capital punishment crowd.

 

again, obviously.

[Fumbleweed 555]

Sho shows up in yet another of my topics taking the exact opposite stance as me.

 

coincidence? I think not. Perhaps in this topic it appears as such, but the cumulative effect indicates otherwise.

 

feel free to lock it - I've pwnd him enough for today.

 

He did appear in the thread, but he appears in lots of threads as do you. There wasn't any need to acknowledge his presence as he hadn't acknowledged yours.

 

That's all I am saying.

[t.j 35]

Of course it did...look who came in slinging the insults again and ruining a pretty civil discussion with his usual crap....proving his hypocrisy yet again.

 

I'm not going to defend your adversary, but it takes two to tango. And, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who takes a thread on the main forum about a guy's last words during an execution, and starts making comments about their views on the death penalty, is asking for a slapfight. I'm disappointed that the thread got turned in that direction in the first place. Fock the death penalty crap, this story is about Raider Nation, man!!! This is a football board, not a justice board.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Lie #1

Yeah...because I replied to you right away. Sho nuff 1...scooter 0

 

Lie #2

 

Your overinflated sense of your importance here is hilarious

Sho Nuff 2...Scooter 0

 

 

Lie #3 - I changed my sig because you stalked me in 3 straight topics I'd started and I got sick of it. I added the bit about defining welching (which you obviously haven't a clue on) after your moronic troll poll.

 

You changed it because you could not handle getting owned over and over again. Though, I was referring to the poll and the new part of your sig. And its obvious that I have quite a clue on it...as do the 36 other people who agreed with me.

 

Sho Nuff 3...Scooter 0

 

agreed.

 

Ahhh...another quote manipulation when the facts don't support your argument.

Sho Nuff 4...Scooter 0

 

Yep - already provided them twice. Try looking beyond generalizations and the skewed statistics of the anti-death penalty crowd and it should be painfully obvious. Capital punishment would be a hell of a lot cheaper if those beyond rehabilitation were simply put to death as sentenced and not allowed to clutter our legal system with worthless and costly appeals. So of course it costs more - because instead of carrying out the sentencing, they are kept alive for years while also wasting money in the courts. neither of these is a direct cost of the death penalty, but rather a self fulfilling prophecy of the anti-capital punishment crowd.

 

again, obviously.

 

There is not a single link or fact posted by you in this thread to show your side of it. Only your words and you calling it a fallacy. Sorry, as proven by your skewed sense of reality in this whole stalking BS...your word is valued right along side a pile of crap.

Read exactly what I wrote (when you told me to learn to read) and you see (for the third time) that I clearly state that the current system...with appeals...costs more. It is that which you continued to call a fallacy...and is that to which you are continually incorrect on. Not one fact to support your side...just your insults because you cannot be engaged in a civil debate because you have no facts to support your BS.

 

And again...the cost is not even the basis of my dislike of the Death Penalty...it was only brought up in direct response to another poster's point.

 

Start by doing a search...find something that supports your argument (for once) and post it.

[Fumbleweed 555]

Enough.