Video- dood gets tased

[wiffleball 4,797]

2) There are a lot of instances where the probes don't actually penetrate the subject's clothing. .

 

2a) I just checked the Taser International website (Rink) did a quick browse through all of the press releases issued by the company and look at the marketing pages for both law enforcement and civilian, and nowhere there did I see anything about 50,000 volts.

 

From the Taser website - Product Description

http://www.taser.org/m18l.html

 

M18L Advanced TASER® Weapon w/ Laser Sight

Extremely powerful weapon that drops assailants to the ground from a safe distance of 15 feet away. A CO2 cartidge fires two electrified projectiles into the subject with the same type of power as an air gun. These projectiles become imbedded in the attacker and are effective in penetrating up to 2 and 1/2 inches of heavy clothing including heavy leather jackets. The barbed projectiles remain attached to the assailant and are connected to the weapon by high voltage insulated wire. See how the M18L TASER® works.

 

50,000 Volts, 18 Watts and 133 MilliAmps of measured power is instantly discharged into the subject. The electrical discharge pulses in a revolutionary new method of advanced EMD power (Electro-Muscular Disruption) that no subject has ever been able to overcome. The EMD power surge instantly disrupts the central nervous system and results in the subject falling to the ground in spasms of involuntary muscular convulsions

 

[TheBlade 3]

From the Taser website - Product Description

http://www.taser.org/m18l.html

 

Sorry, Wiff, but you really missed the boat on this one.....

 

1) You obviously did not read the fine print at the bottom of the webpage that you linked to :

 

TASER® is a Trademark of TASER International, Inc.

17800 N. 85th St., Scottsdale, Arizona 85255, www.TASER.com

Phone: 480.905.2000, 800.978.2737, Fax: 480.991.0791

 

Internet Company is not affiliated with the manufacturer TASER International, Inc.

Taser.org™ is a Trademark of Internet Company. © 1995-2007 All rights reserved.

Order: 1-800-352-5294 Customer Service: 1-800-352-5294 Fax: 702-341-1652

 

I don't know this Internet Company that you speak of. I've never heard of them and don't know the first thing about them. I am GUESSING that they are an independent retailer of the Taser product. Here's the link to the actual manufacturer of the Taser, Taser International. This is the company that trained the officers in my agency that certified all of the rest of us to carry the Taser. That's the same company that, as of 4 years ago, had over 11,000 law enforcement agencies in this country using their products. This is the same company that as of this date, has yet to be found responsible and liable in any lawsuits filed against them.

 

2) The product you linked to is the CIVILIAN model of the Taser, which this retailer is obviously targeting their marketing to. THEY are the ones advertising the 50,000 volts mantra, which only makes sense when they are trying to attract Joe and Suzy Sixpack. All of the products available on their website are the only products that Taser sells to the general public.

 

Here's the three links to the marketing pages for Taser International:

 

Civilian Products

 

Law Enforcement Products

 

Military Products

 

Nowhere on any of those three pages do you see ANY information referencing 50,000 volts. Now, I can't say that they've never put that number out to the public, but it's certainly a long way away from the manufacturer BRAGGING about it, as you claimed earlier.

 

3) You quoted information off of the retailer's website as follows:

 

M18L Advanced TASER® Weapon w/ Laser Sight

These projectiles become imbedded in the attacker and are effective in penetrating up to 2 and 1/2 inches of heavy clothing including heavy leather jackets. The barbed projectiles remain attached to the assailant and are connected to the weapon by high voltage insulated wire.

 

50,000 Volts, 18 Watts and 133 MilliAmps of measured power is instantly discharged into the subject. The electrical discharge pulses in a revolutionary new method of advanced EMD power (Electro-Muscular Disruption) that no subject has ever been able to overcome. The EMD power surge instantly disrupts the central nervous system and results in the subject falling to the ground in spasms of involuntary muscular convulsions

 

The bolded area is the way the Taser is designed to work. In reality, it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes the probes are able to penetrate through heavy jackets and baggy clothing, sometimes they don't. It's just the way it is. Nothing is fool-proof and nothing works the way it is designed all of the time, particularly when people are fighting, running, etc. The red wording is the retailer's marketing, not Taser International's.

 

Oh, and here's:

 

Taser's response to the Canadian Mounted Police Incident

 

One last thing, your original post DID air your beef with Taser...."I sure hope something better than the Taser comes along." It wasn't until much later after I responded that you said ANYTHING about it being "better than cops shooting some retard, I'm not opposed to it." I have no problems with "the whole 'compare / contrast' concept."

[Blitzen 1]

So, if the four cops "jump" on him and the guy ends up with a broken arm because they have to force his arms behind his back to get him handcuffed, that's ok but tazing him to get voluntary compliance isn't???

 

You can't use the fact in this specific case that the guy died in upholding or denying the use of the Taser in this situation. NOBODY expected that he would end up dead. And most of the Taser deployments I have seen have been on unarmed subjects. We use the Taser so that we DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT WITH THE BAD GUY. It's safer for him and safer for us. Every fight I get into is an armed confrontation because there is at least one gun there, MINE. It's not easy to fight with someone and protect yourself and your gun while still trying to control him and take him into custody. It's a biatch. And four isn't necessarily any better than two until he's on the ground and the opportunity presents itself to grab a limb and try to subdue him by everyone holding on to a body part.

 

And if you're armed, you better hope you get tazed 'cuz you just as easily could get shot.

 

And, again, if they lied that's a major red flag that needs to be looked into. And, I agree, if they did lie, they're dumbasses. But, out of curiosity, what EXACTLY did he die from?? What did the Medical Examiner's report say??? I don't know, but I am curious.

 

But, Wiff used this story specifically to air a beef about Tasers in general. They prevent far, far more injuries and deaths than they cause.

 

So once the guy has been tasered once and is writhing in pain on the ground, that's still not good enough to subdue him? Do you need for him to become totally unconscious before the cops actually handcuff him? I can see some good uses for this tool but I could also see cops overuse it to simplify their work.

[TheBlade 3]

So once the guy has been tasered once and is writhing in pain on the ground, that's still not good enough to subdue him? Do you need for him to become totally unconscious before the cops actually handcuff him? I can see some good uses for this tool but I could also see cops overuse it to simplify their work.

 

The tool is designed for you to try to get the subject handcuffed WHILE he is actively being tazed. I have been tazed and can attest to the fact that once the cycle stops, the effects of the Taser are GONE. There have been many, many people who have started fighting again as soon as the cycle stopped, and did not comply with commands to simply lay on their stomach and put their hands behind their back until having the second or third cycle. They finally realize that we are not going to fight them and that the quickest, easiest way to make this stop is to do what we ask of them.

 

And, I've never heard of a case where someone has been knocked unconscious by the Taser. The whole idea of the thing is "to simplify our work." The whole idea of having and using the Taser is so we don't have to fight someone.

[Blitzen 1]

The tool is designed for you to try to get the subject handcuffed WHILE he is actively being tazed. I have been tazed and can attest to the fact that once the cycle stops, the effects of the Taser are GONE. There have been many, many people who have started fighting again as soon as the cycle stopped, and did not comply with commands to simply lay on their stomach and put their hands behind their back until having the second or third cycle. They finally realize that we are not going to fight them and that the quickest, easiest way to make this stop is to do what we ask of them.

 

And, I've never heard of a case where someone has been knocked unconscious by the Taser. The whole idea of the thing is "to simplify our work." The whole idea of having and using the Taser is so we don't have to fight someone.

 

Well, defend how they did it all you want but it seems they broke a number of rules on Taser use government had established. These guys are in trouble. I think they knew it and that's why they lied.

[TheBlade 3]

Well, defend how they did it all you want but it seems they broke a number of rules on Taser use government had established. These guys are in trouble. I think they knew it and that's why they lied.

 

I'm not defending their specific use of the Taser...I don't have enough information without having at least the police reports and their agency policy on use of force to go along with the video to make a determination as to whether or not they were proper and justified in their use of the Taser. And, I've already said it twice that if they lied about anything that occurred, then they are morons for having done such.

 

What I was defending was the use of the Taser in general because of the misinformation being bandied about and I was responding to your statements about just having the four guys "jump" on him. That's all.

[wiffleball 4,797]

THEY are the ones advertising the 50,000 volts mantra

 

Okay, I think this guy's gone off the deep end. First he says the marketers aren't the ones boasting the 50,000 Volts claim - "It's all the media". Then when I nail him on that, he finds some goofy-ass fine print from teh same site he original quoted as saying DIDN't have any 50K claims. - "It's not the original company, it's the internet marketers". WTF?

 

The TASER trademark is the first thing you see. The TASER name is used in the product description. The SITE is called TASER.org

 

- But yeah, it's the media...

[TheBlade 3]

Okay, I think this guy's gone off the deep end. First he says the marketers aren't the ones boasting the 50,000 Volts claim - "It's all the media". Then when I nail him on that, he finds some goofy-ass fine print from teh same site he original quoted as saying DIDN't have any 50K claims. - "It's not the original company, it's the internet marketers". WTF?

 

The TASER trademark is the first thing you see. The TASER name is used in the product description. The SITE is called TASER.org

 

- But yeah, it's the media...

 

Dude, after all of this discussion, is that really the best counter-argument you can come up with????

 

Let's review:

 

Your first statement about 50,000 volts was this, "but now we brag about using 50,000 volts on people who haven't even been charged with a crime." I then responded with a link to an article by Officer.com...LINK

 

Then, you come back with the claim that the MANUFACTURERS are bragging about 50,000 volts. Your quote, "And bear in mind, it ain't about Media hype, the damn manufacturers BRAG about the 50,000 Volts!" You then said something about me using "some bass-ackward, banana republic circular justification" when I, in fact, was talking about Probable Cause, which has been established as a valid legal standard by the US Supreme Court. Once I shot that down, your next move was to link to some independent retailer website that admits that they have no affiliation with Taser International. Of course they're bragging about 50,000 volts, they're marketing the things to the sheeple in this country. Although they aren't putting out any false information, it's pretty safe to say that they don't speak for Taser International itself.

 

As far as Taser's name being all over the website, of course it is, THEY'RE A TASER DEALER. That's like Billy Bob's Gun Store selling Glock, H & K, and Sig Sauer guns and using their trademarked names on its website. Of course they're going to, they're selling those products. That doesn't mean that these companies have any direct affiliation with Billy Bob's Gun Store. They can say pretty much what they want in their marketing, so long as they are not publishing patently false information. This dealer is heavily advertising 50,000 volts to attract the sheeple in America that don't have either the ability and/or the inclination to do any real independent research, so you see this huge number and are WOWed into buying it for personal defense, while everyone else does some independent research and learns that this huge number is only marginally relevant to the actual use and effectiveness of the product.

 

Being a corporate tax accountant for as many years as you have stated in the past, I would hope that you'd be familiar with this business model. I mean, I realize that a dealer buying wholesale from a manufacturer and then reselling to the public is a really new and novel idea, but c'mon, I'm sure you're intelligent enough to figure this out for yourself.

 

As far as the TASER.ORG website, I'm sure you're able to figure out that anybody can purchase a domain name and put up a website. If I were a dealer of Tasers, I too would make every effort to get my domain name as close to the actual Taser website as possible. That's only good business and marketing sense.

 

I have only linked to two places, the article from Officer.com and to the Taser International official website and marketing pages. YOU linked to this Taser.org website, not me, and I have not found a link ANYWHERE on either of those sites to the website that you linked to. So, I don't know how you found it, but it was never a part of my discussion until you brought it up.

 

Dude, save yourself from any more ownage and just call "uncle," my arms are getting tired from the beat-down

Here's your trophy for second place, son J/K

 

Seriously, though, you don't have to like me and you don't have to like the Taser, but don't just buy into all of the bullsh!t bandied about. It absolutely and unequivocally the best tool that has become available to law enforcement in a long, long time. It has saved lives and prevented injuries, both of the good guys and the bad guys. And that's really what it's all about.

[Pootie Tang 0]

Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

 

Amen.

 

Peace biotches!

[Birdseed 1]

Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

 

Amen.

 

Peace biotches!