Curtis TD issue

[nolefan 0]

Any league whose scoring doesn't give absolute priority to allowing credit to individuals for touchdowns, no matter how they get them, is bush-league. There is no argument against this. You simply suck.

 

 

league fee is $150

winner got $635

2nd place got $250

we both won our divisions which pays $200 each.

we both made $ in this league

 

he says he is OK with curtis not getting the 6 PTs.

 

since he was so understanding I told him I will pay half($75) of his league fee next year.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

My opponent who didn't get the Curtis TD, went into last night down less than 1 with LT2 vs my San Deigo DEF. Of course he lost by 5.57 and is a little grumpy about it. I feel for him but hey, dems da breaks. Just like Kevin Jones getting me only 3 points......

[jdon 28]

I know in my league, there are no points for kickoff return yardage or TD's for individual players. If MJD returns one for a TD, then the JAX DEF/ST gets the points, not MJD. I believe that is pretty common.

 

I'll second this. I play in a few leagues, some award returns to defenses, some to offensive players, some to both, however if it isn't written in then you don't get the points...

 

that said, I think Curtis should get the points no matter what - this may be a fluke play but he did score the touchdown.

jdon

[Berner 0]

I think Curtis should get the points no matter what - this may be a fluke play but he did score the touchdown.

 

I think the Eagles should get six points on the scoreboard, which they did.

 

But whether this counts as six points (or 4 points, or 80 bazillion points) in fantasy football depends on the rules in your league, which were set in August and cannot be changed now. Its not about the freaking "spirit of the game" you hippie losers.

[MisanthropicAnthropoid 0]

Curtis got the TD for my opponent. I lost by 5.

 

Agree with the decision though. Just bad luck on my part. He also had the Giants D.

[nosferatu9368 0]

I am the Commish of my league and have been for 8 of the 11 years we have been playing, with that said here is our scoring system

 

Offense scoring

4 pts for passing TD

1 pt for every 75 YDS passing

6 pts for rushing TD

1 pt for every 25 YDS rushing

6 pts for receiving TD

1 pt for every 25 YDS receiving

2 pts for all TDS 40 YDS or more

2 pts for all 2 pt conversions

3 pts for field goals of 17-39 YDS

4 pts for field goals of 40-49 YDS

5 pts for field goals of 50 YDS or more

 

Defense Scoring

2 pts for every interception

2 pts for every fumble recovery

1 pt for every sack

2 pts for a safety

6 points for every TD by your Defense

2 pts for all TDS 40 YDS or more

10 pts if your defense lets up 0 pts

7 pts if your defense lets up 2-6 pts

5 pts if your defense lets up 7-11 pts

3 pts if your defense lets up 12-16 pts

 

That is exactly how it is written, every person playing got a copy of the scoring and agreed to the rules, nowhere in those rules for scoring does it say a player gets 6 pts for an offensive fumble recovery for a td.

 

Now comes the problem. I lost to the owner of Kevin Curtis 74 - 70, and I did at first give him the credit for the score, but after looking at our league scoring page, I realize this should not count, now I want to be honest here, if this happened to anyone else I would feel the same way and I would get some owner(s) angry at me but I would change the score, because in my opinion getting the score right is the most important thing.

 

Now I have to admit this sure looks like i'm bein' an a-hole about this because its me on the short end, I have sent the other owners in my league an e-mail explaining my thoughts. I care so much about this league that i'm willing to accept the loss just not to piss off others in the league, but I really believe i'm right about this one....

 

What do all of you think about this?

 

Thank you

 

Peace...

[thesitedoc 5]

The reason it wasn't in the rules is because no one was smart enough to anticipate the occurrence and not for any other reason I'm sure. When the rules are made it is primarily to define the amount of points, rush and receiving TD vs a passing TD in many cases.

 

A TD scored by an offensive player on an offensive play is a TD. Plain and simple. Just because it can't be scored as a rushing or receiving or passing TD doesn't make it any less a TD.

 

This whole argument seems so ridiculous. Hiding behind the rules is such a lame excuse. At least that's my opinion and I am a stickler for the rules in my league. I also exercise common sense. Those two need not be mutually exclusive.

[nosferatu9368 0]

Hey Doc,

If Randy Moss is put in to play deep Centerfield on one of the last plays of the game and intercepts the ball and returns it for a score who gets the points Randy Moss or New England D?

 

With basic scoring such as 4 pts passing td, 6 points rushing and receiving td, 6 points for a defensive td...

 

Peace...

[FSW Mephisto 0]

I think the Eagles should get six points on the scoreboard, which they did.

 

But whether this counts as six points (or 4 points, or 80 bazillion points) in fantasy football depends on the rules in your league, which were set in August and cannot be changed now. Its not about the freaking "spirit of the game" you hippie losers.

 

There is a HUGE difference between "changing the rules" and "FIXING A FOCKING MISTAKE" you idiot. I've already explained this several times.

 

Unless there is an understanding within the league that individuals can sometimes NOT get credit for a TD, then you fix the oversight.

 

In most leagues I am familiar with - individuals scoring a TD are a priority. The ONLY exception I've seen (and one with which I disagree) is when a position player returns kicks. There are some leagues out there that refuse to give the individual a TD along with the associated DST - and only give it to the DST.

 

That's about it.

[49ers_suck 0]

A TD scored by an offensive player on an offensive play is a TD. Plain and simple. Just because it can't be scored as a rushing or receiving or passing TD doesn't make it any less a TD.

this is all that ever needed to be said about this!

sorry, you lost man. and if you don't give the guy the points, you will have anarchy on your hands. you gotta do the right thing.

[nosferatu9368 0]

In most leagues I am familiar with - individuals scoring a TD are a priority. The ONLY exception I've seen (and one with which I disagree) is when a position player returns kicks. There are some leagues out there that refuse to give the individual a TD along with the associated DST - and only give it to the DST.

 

That's about it.

 

It really dont matter if you think the player should get the TD or the DST, one thing is certain there should only be 1 TD allowed, how do you get to score the TD twice? That is very stupid, so if you have MoJo and the Jags DST you should get 2 TD's everytime he returns a kick for a TD?

 

Merry Christmas Everyone...

[nosferatu9368 0]

this is all that ever needed to be said about this!

sorry, you lost man. and if you don't give the guy the points, you will have anarchy on your hands. you gotta do the right thing.

 

I did give him the points and passed out the scores, he wins 74 - 70 and the TD for Curtis counted I just dont believe thats the right call, I didnt post this to get bashed, I only wanted to know everyones OPINIONS.

 

Merry Christmas Everyone...

[Agamemnon 2]

The reason it wasn't in the rules is because no one was smart enough to anticipate the occurrence and not for any other reason I'm sure. When the rules are made it is primarily to define the amount of points, rush and receiving TD vs a passing TD in many cases.

 

A TD scored by an offensive player on an offensive play is a TD. Plain and simple. Just because it can't be scored as a rushing or receiving or passing TD doesn't make it any less a TD.

 

This whole argument seems so ridiculous. Hiding behind the rules is such a lame excuse. At least that's my opinion and I am a stickler for the rules in my league. I also exercise common sense. Those two need not be mutually exclusive.

 

Very well-written! The people arguing the other side are either benefiting from that ruling or extreme simpletons who need everything in black & white; probably a little of both! Curtis was a named offensive player getting credit in the box score for scoring on what is inarguably an offensive play. To deny him the six points on what amounts to a technicality is bush-league...

[Agamemnon 2]

I did give him the points and passed out the scores, he wins 74 - 70 and the TD for Curtis counted I just dont believe thats the right call, I didnt post this to get bashed, I only wanted to know everyones OPINIONS.

 

Merry Christmas Everyone...

 

Kudos to you and rest easy, you did the right thing. You'll have a chance to win the league next season, but had you gone the other way with this decision, you'd have lost their (other league members) respect forever with no chance to regain it.

[FSW Mephisto 0]

It really dont matter if you think the player should get the TD or the DST, one thing is certain there should only be 1 TD allowed, how do you get to score the TD twice? That is very stupid, so if you have MoJo and the Jags DST you should get 2 TD's everytime he returns a kick for a TD?

 

Yes. Like I said, I've had this debate before and you'll end up looking like a retard for it.

 

When an FF QB throws a touchdown pass to an FF WR, how many TDs are credit? Here's a hint: 2.

 

It's the same thing.

 

Let me save you the work of your argument: But the QB gets the PASSING TD, the WR gets the RECEIVING TD - their two different things!!!

 

No, they're not. You award two people a TD when one TD is scored. When MJD returns a kick for a TD, two people are awarded a TD - MJD and the DST.

 

Get over it.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

From a Sportsline article today (Fantasy and Reality):

 

 

• For all of you desperate Kevin Curtis owners out there, forget about trying to convince us that he should get credit for two touchdowns -- unless your league counts offensive fumble recoveries for touchdowns.

 

If you're in the dark about this, Curtis recovered a Donovan McNabb fumble that traveled 20 yards in the end zone early on in their win at New Orleans. Some owners think Curtis should be credited with a rushing touchdown, but he didn't run the ball into the end zone. Some owners think Curtis should be credited with a receiving touchdown, but he didn't catch a thrown pass. He recovered a fumble! And it's an offensive fumble because the Eagles never lost possession, so the Eagles DST shouldn't get credit.

 

You might not think that getting credit for an offensive fumble recovery for a touchdown is even an option for leagues, but it is! If you play in a Commissioner league here at CBSSports.com, it's an available stat. Is it a fair stat that truly tells the ability of an NFL player? Nah, it rewards a Johnny-on-the-spot who was in the right place at the right time. That's why most leagues don't reward that stat, and that's most likely why you won't get Fantasy points for Curtis' score.

[nosferatu9368 0]

Yes. Like I said, I've had this debate before and you'll end up looking like a retard for it.

 

When an FF QB throws a touchdown pass to an FF WR, how many TDs are credit? Here's a hint: 2.

 

It's the same thing.

 

Let me save you the work of your argument: But the QB gets the PASSING TD, the WR gets the RECEIVING TD - their two different things!!!

 

No, they're not. You award two people a TD when one TD is scored. When MJD returns a kick for a TD, two people are awarded a TD - MJD and the DST.

 

Get over it.

 

One HUGE mistake in your thinking oh lord of football, when a QB throws the ball to the WR yes both get credit for the TD, because 2 people were in possesion of the ball on the scoring play, its called a forward pass, maybe you've heard of it, if you notice in the stat sheet both players are listed. however, when a return man runs one back 100 yards for a TD only 1 person was in possesion of the ball. Remember you can't throw a forward pass on a return so only one person is credited with the score, as it shows in the stat sheet. Or does it say Jacksonville special teams 100 yard return in the stat sheet?

 

With your logic the QB's, TE's and WR's should get points when a RB runs it in for a TD, they are all on the field too right???

 

All that and i'm not even gonna insult you.

 

Not bad for a retard huh???

 

Merry Christmas...

[FSW Mephisto 0]

There you go like all others before you.

 

Argument 1: You can't give two people credit for one TD.

 

When I blow that one out of the water, you go with the "two people contributed to the TD" - essentially arguing against your own first point.

 

You did it even when I told you that's what you were going to do.

 

In the MJD example, two positions contributed to the TD... the individual and the DST.

 

As for your tripe about giving credit to the other players on the field... it's worthless.

 

Like I said... get over it. You don't have to like my methodology, but don't argue against giving 2 positions credit for 1 TD, and then scuttle your own argument in the following post, retard.

[kwyjibo 0]

But whether this counts as six points (or 4 points, or 80 bazillion points) in fantasy football depends on the rules in your league, which were set in August and cannot be changed now. Its not about the freaking "spirit of the game" you hippie losers.

 

This argument has nothing to do with league rules, and everything to do with software settings.

 

In my league, the rules state "6 points for TD scored" for each individual player. Doesn't matter how the TD is scored. So Curtis should be awarded the TD, and if the league software doesn't record it correctly, it's up to the commish to add the six points to the Curtis owner's score. If the Curtis owner is not awarded the 6 points, a crime has been committed.

[nosferatu9368 0]

There you go like all others before you.

 

Argument 1: You can't give two people credit for one TD.

 

When I blow that one out of the water, you go with the "two people contributed to the TD" - essentially arguing against your own first point.

 

You did it even when I told you that's what you were going to do.

 

In the MJD example, two positions contributed to the TD... the individual and the DST.

 

As for your tripe about giving credit to the other players on the field... it's worthless.

 

Like I said... get over it. You don't have to like my methodology, but don't argue against giving 2 positions credit for 1 TD, and then scuttle your own argument in the following post, retard.

 

Argument 1, lets see I didn't say 2 people cant have credit for a TD, I said you cant give credit to special teams and the return man for the same TD, if your not smart enough to understand the difference i'm sorry for you, what if the team has 2 return guys deep lets use MoJo and Fred Taylor, should Fred Taylor also be given credit for a TD even though he didnt touch the ball? After all he may have contributed to the TD with a block or two, the same as anyone else on the special teams unit.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you blew out of the water because your argument makes zero sense. How have you explained why the special teams AND MoJo should be given credit for a score? umm you haven't, your argument is because you said so. yeah that works.

 

"In the MJD example, two positions contributed to the TD... the individual and the DST". On an offensive play don't other players contribute to the scoring drive why are they not rewarded with points even though they didnt touch the ball?? Another point you have failed miserably in answering.

 

What you really need to understand is not every league uses defense AND special teams as one unit, which is IMO the right way to do it, too much double scoring that way. My league drafts 2 QB's 4 RB's 5 WR's/TE's 2 K's 2 Defenses, special teams not included, if by chance you drafted a guy who returns kicks then yippy for you, you could get points that way as well. NO DOUBLE SCORING...

 

What this really comes down to is how you set up the scoring for your league, if you want to reward double points for a TD on a kick or punt return fine. But just because thats the way you play dont mean its the right way.

 

In your response please make a point rather than trying as you will to prove my point is wrong. You're starting to bore me.

 

Peace...

[Berner 0]

This argument has nothing to do with league rules, and everything to do with software settings.

 

In my league, the rules state "6 points for TD scored" for each individual player. Doesn't matter how the TD is scored. So Curtis should be awarded the TD, and if the league software doesn't record it correctly, it's up to the commish to add the six points to the Curtis owner's score. If the Curtis owner is not awarded the 6 points, a crime has been committed.

 

Obviously if you have written rules, then they supercede the software settings. But absent written rules, the settings are your rules.

 

And to all the blowhards who are still debating this issue, you've already lost. Read the entire thread. At this point you're just in a circle jerk with each other.

 

Personally, the issue had zero effect on my championship win. Neither I nor my opponent had Curtis. As such, I'll not post in this thread again. FSW Mephisto, turn off the lights when you've finished spewing. Peace out -- see you in 2008.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

From a Sportsline article today (Fantasy and Reality):

 

 

Good read on that fatboy; thanks. The closing paragraph sums it all up.

 

Good posts too nosferatu9368 and Berner. Excellent points.

 

Whether it's software or a rule, you can't change it after the season starts for the following and most important reason IMO; other plays like this could have occurred earlier in the year and those players should have been credited too. Doing this could have affected the standings and ultimately who got into the playoffs/championship. In some cases the tiebreaker is points, so two teams tied with a differential of less than 6 points could change if you go back and credit these points. How many guys barely got into/or knocked out of the playoffs by less than 6 points?

 

To those that think you should 'fix it' or 'give him the points' or 'do what's right' sorry, in doing so you could be opening a can of worms and jobbing someone who then should have made the playoffs or won the championship.

[FSW Mephisto 0]

Argument 1, lets see I didn't say 2 people cant have credit for a TD, I said you cant give credit to special teams and the return man for the same TD, if your not smart enough to understand the difference i'm sorry for you, what if the team has 2 return guys deep lets use MoJo and Fred Taylor, should Fred Taylor also be given credit for a TD even though he didnt touch the ball? After all he may have contributed to the TD with a block or two, the same as anyone else on the special teams unit.

 

The bolded area is why you have no point. It is completely irrelevant as was your initial argument which was, essentially two positions shouldn't get credit for one TD. When I pointed out that we all give QBs and WRs (or RBs) credit for TD pass plays, suddenly - you argued it was okay to give two positions credit for one score and made some grade-school excuse as to why it was different.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you blew out of the water because your argument makes zero sense. How have you explained why the special teams AND MoJo should be given credit for a score? umm you haven't, your argument is because you said so. yeah that works.

 

See above, retard.

 

"In the MJD example, two positions contributed to the TD... the individual and the DST". On an offensive play don't other players contribute to the scoring drive why are they not rewarded with points even though they didnt touch the ball?? Another point you have failed miserably in answering.

 

Because in neither scenario - QB & WR and DST & Individual - has any position not involved in the scoring play been credited with a score. Why you insist on using the "someone one the field" argument to bolster your non-existent position escapes me. Retard.

 

What you really need to understand is not every league uses defense AND special teams as one unit, which is IMO the right way to do it, too much double scoring that way. My league drafts 2 QB's 4 RB's 5 WR's/TE's 2 K's 2 Defenses, special teams not included, if by chance you drafted a guy who returns kicks then yippy for you, you could get points that way as well. NO DOUBLE SCORING...

 

Your league obviously has double-scoring because it awards touchdowns to both QBs and the recipient of the pass on passing touchdowns. You don't even know your own league.

 

What this really comes down to is how you set up the scoring for your league, if you want to reward double points for a TD on a kick or punt return fine. But just because thats the way you play dont mean its the right way.

 

In your response please make a point rather than trying as you will to prove my point is wrong. You're starting to bore me.

 

Peace...

 

It's not hard to bore someone who can't keep his arguments straight.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

The bolded area is why you have no point. It is completely irrelevant as was your initial argument which was, essentially two positions shouldn't get credit for one TD. When I pointed out that we all give QBs and WRs (or RBs) credit for TD pass plays, suddenly - you argued it was okay to give two positions credit for one score and made some grade-school excuse as to why it was different.

See above, retard.

Because in neither scenario - QB & WR and DST & Individual - has any position not involved in the scoring play been credited with a score. Why you insist on using the "someone one the field" argument to bolster your non-existent position escapes me. Retard.

Your league obviously has double-scoring because it awards touchdowns to both QBs and the recipient of the pass on passing touchdowns. You don't even know your own league.

It's not hard to bore someone who can't keep his arguments straight.

 

 

Hey Mephisto, address the question I raised about having to go back through ALL the games to see if this occurred earlier in the season. To 'fix the mistake' you'd have to give the other guys points they deserved and thus you might affect the playoffs/championship. Don't you think that would be too much to do or too big of a risk?

[FSW Mephisto 0]

Hey Mephisto, address the question I raised about having to go back through ALL the games to see if this occurred earlier in the season. To 'fix the mistake' you'd have to give the other guys points they deserved and thus you might affect the playoffs/championship. Don't you think that would be too much to do or too big of a risk?

 

Yes, it could very well be. I'd put the onus on the other owners to put up an earlier instance. If you correct the scoring system - it'll show up automatically.

 

Bottom line - the way owners hawk their lineups - if a situation occurred earlier in the season where one of their players didn't get credit for a touchdown - you would have heard about it then. This didn't become an issue just because it's the FF post-season. You get jobbed out of points for any reason at any point in the season - you're crying to the Commissioner.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Yes, it could very well be. I'd put the onus on the other owners to put up an earlier instance. If you correct the scoring system - it'll show up automatically.

 

Bottom line - the way owners hawk their lineups - if a situation occurred earlier in the season where one of their players didn't get credit for a touchdown - you would have heard about it then. This didn't become an issue just because it's the FF post-season. You get jobbed out of points for any reason at any point in the season - you're crying to the Commissioner.

 

 

Well put. I'm bird-dogging the scores each week like I'm watching a Jessica Alba flick; always looking for a slip up.

 

In our league in August the question was put before the people on whether to reward the guy that returns punts/kickoffs with the TD as well as the DEF; we voted no then. I believe we set it then that the offensive guy recovering the fumble for a TD wouldn't get the TD. That will changed this year I guarantee.

[jrdaman 0]

my leagues scoring rules are as follows.

 

 

all passing,rushing and rec. TDs- 6 PTs

1 PT/10 rush and rec yards

1 PT/20 passing yards

3 PTs FG

1 PT Ext Pt.

2pt rush/rec/passing 2PTs conv.

 

 

I am in a tight game for the championship. I am down 18 PTs with LT and Gates left. My opponent has no one left, he has Curtis. Curtis's TD is being scored as a offensive fumble recovery TD. Our league does not have a rule in place for this type of odd scoring so my opponent is not getting credit for that TD. As you might assume he thinks he should. He wants the league to vote on it. I say the league rules are set in stone before the season started and cannot be changed once it starts. How would your league handle this? Note, I am the commish of this league.

 

This is easy, no TD!!! it's not in your rules and you can't change rules in mid season! Why all the bickering? The league can vote to add this scoring rule next year, but you should not be adding rules at the end of the season!

[nosferatu9368 0]

WOW, heres the difference

 

The QB and WR each get points because you drafted them as an individual, not as a unit.

 

This is why we play a whole bunch of Offensive guys and 1 Defense

 

Some leagues draft IDP's so when they do something as an individual THEY get points not the entire defense.

 

Some leagues draft just a team defense meaning no matter who scores points as long as they are a defensive player on your defense you get the points.

 

Some leagues DO NOT combine special teams & defense for the very reason i've been trying to explain to you for 2 days now.

 

NO LEAGUES draft IDP's & a team defense, becasue if they did and lets say Brian Urlacher picks a pass off and runs it into the end zone you would have to give DOUBLE POINTS, and that my friend would be a stupid rule.

 

But as i've been trying to tell you its all in how your league sets up the scoring, neither way is right or wrong its just different.

 

So if your not gonna understand my point lets just agree to disagree and move on.