Anyone watching the WSOP?

[kilroy69 1,261]

I watched an episode last night and there was what I consider to be a horrible call by the tourney director.

 

 

A Russian makes a move with his chip stack pushed about 3 mil in but does not release his hand from the chips. Takes half of them off the top and puts them back into his stack.

 

The tourney director comes over and says its ok to do that.

 

My question is how? How can it be O.K. to do that when at any casino I have ever been to if you make a move into the pot with your chips you HAVE to put what you made the move with into the pot.

 

If thats the fact I just found a new way to garner info from other players. Im just going to push all my chips in, take in the reaction and then raise the min.

 

 

Anyone else see what im talking about?

[KSB2424 3,172]

It was a dumb call, but the tournament director did not see it and only went on what was said afterwards. The fact that the Russian guy couldn't even speak english to defend himself put the director in a wierd spot. So what is the moral of the story? We need instant replay in poker!@#!

[kilroy69 1,261]

It was a dumb call, but the tournament director did not see it and only went on what was said afterwards. The fact that the Russian guy couldn't even speak english to defend himself put the director in a wierd spot. So what is the moral of the story? We need instant replay in poker!@#!

Cmon, they are in a casino. I am pretty sure they have them new fangled devices called security cameras trained on every table. It would not have taken much to call up to the security guy and ask what happened or just walk up there and see for himself.

[KSB2424 3,172]

Cmon, they are in a casino. I am pretty sure they have them new fangled devices called security cameras trained on every table. It would not have taken much to call up to the security guy and ask what happened or just walk up there and see for himself.

I know, that is my point.

 

Why didn't he go back and look at the tape? Especially since the Russian guy couldn't speak english and just sat there looking dazed and confused. It was wierd and wrong all at the same time. I don't think it sets any precedent though, and I don't think the Russian guy meant to do it to get any "advantage".

[edjr 6,780]

I saw it when it originally aired. I don't see anything wrong with what he did, he didn't go past the dealer marker, he probably thought it was a stack of 5's, but it was a stack of 25's, when he started pushing he realized.

 

There is no "official hold 'em rule book" each casino/house makes it's own rules.

 

My favorite part was when he was speaking Russian and the black guy whined like a little biyatch. Mike Carroll what a biznitch

 

Why do you think the other guy complained? because he was holding a full house.

[edjr 6,780]

I know, that is my point.

 

Why didn't he go back and look at the tape? Especially since the Russian guy couldn't speak english and just sat there looking dazed and confused. It was wierd and wrong all at the same time. I don't think it sets any precedent though, and I don't think the Russian guy meant to do it to get any "advantage".

 

 

This is absolutely the case. It was a simple mistake, he wasn't trying to get a read on the other guy, seeing as it was the final bet and all the cards were shown.

[kilroy69 1,261]

I know, that is my point.

 

Why didn't he go back and look at the tape? Especially since the Russian guy couldn't speak english and just sat there looking dazed and confused. It was wierd and wrong all at the same time. I don't think it sets any precedent though, and I don't think the Russian guy meant to do it to get any "advantage".

Yea i dont think he did it to gain an advantage. But still I cant believe that the tourney director could get it that wrong. I mean that was a lot of chips.

 

 

Did you see when they then bleeped him out for apparently cussing?

This is what he said.

 

 

"Tell them that they should all go and f**k themselves, phaggots"

[edjr 6,780]

Yea i dont think he did it to gain an advantage. But still I cant believe that the tourney director could get it that wrong. I mean that was a lot of chips.

Did you see when they then bleeped him out for apparently cussing?

This is what he said.

"Tell them that they should all go and f**k themselves, phaggots"

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

could you please link me to the Hold 'em rule book about pushing your chips and pulling them back without having released them. I'd love to see it, oh and make sure it is the same rule book that everyone casino on earth abides by.

 

TIA

[kilroy69 1,261]

What the hell are you talking about?

 

could you please link me to the Hold 'em rule book about pushing your chips and pulling them back without having released them. I'd love to see it, oh and make sure it is the same rule book that everyone casino on earth abides by.

 

TIA

I understand that you have a hard time reading so i will say it again slow so maybe you can understand.

 

 

"any casino I have ever been to if you make a move into the pot with your chips you HAVE to put what you made the move with into the pot."

 

At the motor city here in the DET if you move you cards behind your stack they consider it an all in bet and I have always been told that you can't make a move into the pot and take ANY chips back. Its like a pump fake and can extract info from other players.

[KSB2424 3,172]

I saw it when it originally aired. I don't see anything wrong with what he did, he didn't go past the dealer marker, he probably thought it was a stack of 5's, but it was a stack of 25's, when he started pushing he realized.

 

There is no "official hold 'em rule book" each casino/house makes it's own rules.

 

My favorite part was when he was speaking Russian and the black guy whined like a little biyatch. Mike Carroll what a biznitch

 

Why do you think the other guy complained? because he was holding a full house.

Yeah, Carroll and the other guy were being biatches about it afterwards. Sure they should have got a ruling on it because it was weird, but after it was over they were scolding the Russian guy as if he was trying to cheat or something. It was obvious the guy just made a strange move in selecting his chips and didn't mean anything buy it, but they were talking smack to him. I hate mofos like that.

 

I'm no poker pro and don't claim to be even close to one, but I have played in quite a few tournaments in Vegas . I remember the first time I went and accidently strung a bet out there and this mofo got all defensive and tried talking smack. It was a focking honest mistake. I apologized to the guy as it was my mistake but he kept on and on and I swear we almost came to blows. The focker would not let it go. Stuff like that happens, and these poker dudes see this stuff on tv and try to be brats about it. It's focking annoying.

[edjr 6,780]

I understand that you have a hard time reading so i will say it again slow so maybe you can understand.

"any casino I have ever been to if you make a move into the pot with your chips you HAVE to put what you made the move with into the pot."

 

At the motor city here in the DET if you move you cards behind your stack they consider it an all in bet and I have always been told that you can't make a move into the pot and take ANY chips back. Its like a pump fake and can extract info from other players.

 

 

Clearly there is a rulebook, that has this rule, right? if it's used everywhere.

 

I've been playing hold 'em since before it was popular and I have never seen anyone do this, so I'm quite certain it hardly ever happens. I'd just like a link to the rulebook incase it ever does.

[kilroy69 1,261]

Yeah, Carroll and the other guy were being biatches about it afterwards. Sure they should have got a ruling on it because it was weird, but after it was over they were scolding the Russian guy as if he was trying to cheat or something. It was obvious the guy just made a strange move in selecting his chips and didn't mean anything buy it, but they were talking smack to him. I hate mofos like that.

 

I'm no poker pro and don't claim to be even close to one, but I have played in quite a few tournaments in Vegas . I remember the first time I went and accidently strung a bet out there and this mofo got all defensive and tried talking smack. It was a focking honest mistake. I apologized to the guy as it was my mistake but he kept on and on and I swear we almost came to blows. The focker would not let it go. Stuff like that happens, and these poker dudes see this stuff on tv and try to be brats about it. It's focking annoying.

You say they were being biotches. I say they wanted to clarify. The TD told them that they could not do the EXACT thing the russian just did, then took him over to the side to speak with him about the move.

[edjr 6,780]

Yeah, Carroll and the other guy were being biatches about it afterwards. Sure they should have got a ruling on it because it was weird, but after it was over they were scolding the Russian guy as if he was trying to cheat or something. It was obvious the guy just made a strange move in selecting his chips and didn't mean anything buy it, but they were talking smack to him. I hate mofos like that.

 

I'm no poker pro and don't claim to be even close to one, but I have played in quite a few tournaments in Vegas . I remember the first time I went and accidently strung a bet out there and this mofo got all defensive and tried talking smack. It was a focking honest mistake. I apologized to the guy as it was my mistake but he kept on and on and I swear we almost came to blows. The focker would not let it go. Stuff like that happens, and these poker dudes see this stuff on tv and try to be brats about it. It's focking annoying.

 

They know they are on tv, of course they ham it up.

 

My favorite part so far was when helmuth was calling the foreign guy an idiot for having 10-6 off suit and the guy finally lost his sh!t and went back at him.

 

I bet gutterboy could kick helmuth's pansy ass.

[edjr 6,780]

You say they were being biotches. I say they wanted to clarify. The TD told them that they could not do the EXACT thing the russian just did, then took him over to the side to speak with him about the move.

 

Carroll had no business opening his yapper, he wasn't even in on the hand. he was just being a negro and making a scene, like they love to do.

[KSB2424 3,172]

You say they were being biotches. I say they wanted to clarify. The TD told them that they could not do the EXACT thing the russian just did, then took him over to the side to speak with him about the move.

I don't think you are understanding what I typed. Of course they should have called the director over there and got a ruling. But after the director made the ruling, if they didn't like it then they needed to scold the director or take it up with him later. There was no need to continue to talk smack to the Russian guy as it was clear he was not trying to cheat. The part after the clarification was where they were whiney biatches.

[kilroy69 1,261]

edjr rule #81, which relates to string bets/raises. According to the rule, "A string bet/raise is defined as attempting a bet or raise in multiple movements that include a return to a player's stack without a prior verbal declaration of intent.

[edjr 6,780]

edjr rule #81, which relates to string bets/raises. According to the rule, "A string bet/raise is defined as attempting a bet or raise in multiple movements that include a return to a player's stack without a prior verbal declaration of intent.

 

 

he didn't return to his stack to get more, so how is it a string bet?

 

he pulled his stack back and bet less. that's not a string bet.

 

I want to see the rule that says how far you can push a stack, because that's what the argument was.. ive seen "pros" push huge stacks plenty of times on tv, they just didn't go out as far as he did.

[kilroy69 1,261]

he didn't return to his stack to get more, so how is it a string bet?

 

he pulled his stack back and bet less. that's not a string bet.

 

I want to see the rule that says how far you can push a stack, because that's what the argument was.. ive seen "pros" push huge stacks plenty of times on tv, they just didn't go out as far as he did.

 

forward motion

the rule states that if a player in turn picks up chips from his stack and moves his hand toward the pot ("forward motion with chips in hand"), this constitutes a commitment to bet (or call), and the player may not withdraw his hand to check or fold. Such a player still has the choice of whether to call or raise. Compare to "string bet".

[edjr 6,780]

forward motion

the rule states that if a player in turn picks up chips from his stack and moves his hand toward the pot ("forward motion with chips in hand"), this constitutes a commitment to bet (or call), and the player may not withdraw his hand to check or fold. Such a player still has the choice of whether to call or raise. Compare to "string bet".

 

 

Ok, so it constitutes a commitment to bet or call.... he was in fact going to bet, he still did bet.. so where was he in the wrong? it doesnt say you have to use all the chips you push, just that you have to bet, you can't check or fold.

[kilroy69 1,261]

Ok, so it constitutes a commitment to bet or call.... he was in fact going to bet, he still did bet.. so where was he in the wrong? it doesnt say you have to use all the chips you push, just that you have to bet, you can't check or fold.

True but he did not bet the stack he pushed.

[edjr 6,780]

True but he did not bet the stack he pushed.

 

your rule doesn't specify he has to,, it just says you must bet, you cannot check or fold..

 

he pushed, pulled back and still bet, by your rule he was not in the wrong.

[kilroy69 1,261]

Im just interested because that is a great way to get info from people and want to know if I pull the same thing will I get the same ruling.

 

edited to say that its not like im a pro by any means but the ruling confused me and I want to know before I sit down at a tourney in vegas when i go this summer.

[edjr 6,780]

Im just interested because that is a great way to get info from people and want to know if I pull the same thing will I get the same ruling.

 

edited to say that its not like im a pro by any means but the ruling confused me and I want to know before I sit down at a tourney in vegas when i go this summer.

 

 

I agree with you and now you see why the TD wasn't sure what to do.. i don't think there is an official rule, the rule you found, is exactly what he did.

 

he didn't fake a bet, he just pushed more than he was going to bet, he never took his hands off, so maybe a new rule needs to be written?

 

Im not arguing for arguments sake, I just honestly thing what he did there isn't a specific rule for it

[kilroy69 1,261]

I agree with you and now you see why the TD wasn't sure what to do.. i don't think there is an official rule, the rule you found, is exactly what he did.

 

he didn't fake a bet, he just pushed more than he was going to bet, he never took his hands off, so maybe a new rule needs to be written?

 

Im not arguing for arguments sake, I just honestly thing what he did there isn't a specific rule for it

I have to think that they will invoke a "Losev" rule for next years wsop if not sooner.

[Ravens 03 0]

forward motion

... if a player in turn picks up chips from his stack and moves his hand toward the pot, this constitutes a commitment to bet ...

 

See: Tuck rule?

[Twinsdad 66]

I did not see this play, but in tourments, it is quite common to see a player grab a stack or stacks of chips, count out his bet and return the extra chips to his pile. It sound like this may be what the russian was trying to do, just that he phayled.

[Guest BernardPollardFan]

I watched an episode last night and there was what I consider to be a horrible call by the tourney director.

A Russian makes a move with his chip stack pushed about 3 mil in but does not release his hand from the chips. Takes half of them off the top and puts them back into his stack.

 

The tourney director comes over and says its ok to do that.

 

My question is how? How can it be O.K. to do that when at any casino I have ever been to if you make a move into the pot with your chips you HAVE to put what you made the move with into the pot.

 

If thats the fact I just found a new way to garner info from other players. Im just going to push all my chips in, take in the reaction and then raise the min.

Anyone else see what im talking about?

You can do whatever you want until you set the chips down, jackass idiot childbeating motherfucker.

[kilroy69 1,261]

You can do whatever you want until you set the chips down, jackass idiot childbeating motherfucker.

stalker moron.

[Guest BernardPollardFan]

stalker moron.

How am I stalking when you coincidentally post in the same minute as me?