*** Official *** 2014 NBA draft thread

[MDC 8,085]

 

ok look, im not saying Turner is a star. But you can't deny he was showing some really nice improvement in Philly this season. Im not shocked he struggled in Indy. No one there wanted him, he was traded for a fan favorite and a guy teammates really liked. He wasn't going to get starters minutes and we saw the chemistry on that team turned completely to shiit and Stevenson was a big part of the problem.

 

Regarding the jrue trade, how can you call it 1.50 on the dollar when you traded away an established 24 year old point guard, getting better each season, coming off his first all star game and averaging 17points 7 assists for a package that has currently played 0 games in the NBA and you have roughly no idea what you're getting?? I hope Noel is as good as you think he is, I hope Saric only spends 1 year overseas and I hope you hit on the future 1st but a haul like that seems like something you get happy about when you give away a 30 year old veteran before he declines rather than an up and coming star.

ET flat sucks. He will get hot once in a while but his counting stats only looked good because he took about a bagillion bad shots per night and spent the rest of the time crying to the refs and playing no defense. I watched every game of his for four years. Trust me: His ceiling is a sixth man on a bad team. I doubt he ever starts in the league again.

 

Jrue is a good PG and a good guy who plays hard defense. He's a little overrated for the same reason ET was overrated: He was the best player on a bad team and it inflated his counting stats.

 

I supported the trade for the same reason I think the Phillies should trade Cole Hamels. He was the best asset they had on a team that was maxed out at below average and the GM flipped him for quite a haul.

 

If Noel, Saric and their future first all bust hard that's more a reflection on the Sixers talent evaluation than the trade itself. If Noel turns into a nightly double-double and elite rim protector it was worth it, everything else is gravy.

[WhiteWonder 2,996]

We're probably not too far apart here. Just saying:

 

1. As a fan of the team I am frustrated that I won't get to see either first rounder next year. But I really do think Hinkie picked these guy because they have the potential to be the best players available. If it weren't for injury concerns and the fact tht he will be overseas for a year or two, Embiid and Saric could have gone 1 and 6-7, so getting them 3 / 12 while adding picks was a big risk but it could also be a major coup.

 

2. I don't see any 2 players who were available to te Sixers where they picked who would have made the Sixers any better than a 30 or so win team, so passing on higher rated players to make this team marginally more attractive for FAs would've been silly IMO. I'm not convinced they drafted the right players but not because I'm worried about who we can lure next offseason.

 

I don't know who the name FAs are next offseason but I hope what they know about MCW and Noel plus the potential of Embiid and chance to join with another star FA will be enough of a lure.

 

The team Hinkie came from brought in Harden, Lin and Howard by acquiring assets, flexibility and cap space. You're right about stars being the key and I think he gets that, just on a slower timetable than some fans would like. We will see I guess.

 

yeah I hear you.

 

regarding #2. - My thesis here wasn't hinging on them winning any specific amount of games more so than simply having their rookie seasons under their belt and showing the kind of promise, ala MCW, to lure those free agents. This is promise that Embiid and Saric can not tangibly show on the court.

 

If you're interested in some specific names, I actually do like Randle but the guy I really thought they would draft was Exum. Fills a need, would look real good alongside MCW. But as i've said, i'm fine with the Embiid pick. Where Saric went there are a bunch of guys I liked before the draft. Some of them fell but if you forget where they were drafted, I liked LaVine, Payne as well as Young and Hood who could have freed them up to deal Thad in a package for a star.

 

but i will say this, about the Saric pick. I think it was an excellent move to recognize who the Magic were likely after, pick him and then trade him for Saric and the extra picks. A very smart trade when you look at it in a vacuum, as just a trade.

 

The UFA's next season include - Kevin Love, Lamarcus Aldridge, Rondo, Kyrie, Al Jefferson, Brook Lopez, Paul Millsap, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, DeAndre Jordan, Goran Dragic, Rudy Gay and the Spurs trio who won't be going anywhere / retiring. Obviously this can change. Teams will be salivating at the idea of pairing Love/Aldridge with Rondo/Kyrie. Hell, i'd even love to pauir Big Al or Gasol with Dragic.

 

The Sixers already have flexibility and cap space, I think. Lin is now viewed as an albatross in Houston.....

[WhiteWonder 2,996]

ET flat sucks. He will get hot once in a while but his counting stats only looked good because he took about a bagillion bad shots per night and spent the rest of the time crying to the refs and playing no defense. I watched every game of his for four years. Trust me: His ceiling is a sixth man on a bad team. I doubt he ever starts in the league again.

 

Jrue is a good PG and a good guy who plays hard defense. He's a little overrated for the same reason ET was overrated: He was the best player on a bad team and it inflated his counting stats.

 

I supported the trade for the same reason I think the Phillies should trade Cole Hamels. He was the best asset they had on a team that was maxed out at below average and the GM flipped him for quite a haul.

 

If Noel, Saric and their future first all bust hard that's more a reflection on the Sixers talent evaluation than the trade itself. If Noel turns into a nightly double-double and elite rim protector it was worth it, everything else is gravy.

 

I can give you ET because im sure you've watched more of him than I have, though i've seen him play a fair amount.

 

I can't agree with you on Jrue. He offers more than just counting stats. He went to a more talented Pelicans team and still had averages of 14 and 8 before injury. He is a good rebounding point guard and always among the league leaders in steals per game. Hovers between 43 and 45% which is better than a LOT of big name PGs. He is a decent 3 point shooter though he doesn't take them.... if his assist to turnover ratio was just a little better, he would be elite. even just half a point better (he was 2.5 last year, while 3.0 and better is the top 5 or so point guards). And again, just 24 years old. CP3 is 29, rondo is 28

 

I agree it would be a reflection on the talent eval but being that these are all names that the NBA draft is much different than the NFL draft, im sure lots of teams boards look pretty similar. Smaller player pool, less players to focus on and evaluate... If they all happen to bust I would not only condemn the talent eval but the trade as well. But i generally think trading proven all stars for potential all stars is bad business. unless your hand is forced (can't afford them, they demand a trade etc etc)

[MDC 8,085]

I like Randle a lot and kind if hoped the Sixers would deal Thad + 10 to move up and draft him. He would have been a reach at 3 and he was obviously gone by 10. I never got the Exum thing. He may turn out to be a great player but his size and skill set are near identical to MCW.

 

Next year's FA crop looks pretty mediocre to be honest except Love, but he will almost certainly be traded this year.

 

Trust me on ET. Watch him enough and you'll see he's a terrible defender and streaky shooter who makes bad decisions and whines a lot. He might one day fill a role as "6th man / scorer with no conscience" like Lou Williams or something but he will never be a guy you want to start on a good team, never.

 

I think Jrue is a good player. He's not great, but he does everything well. Ideally he's a facilitator on a good team. But I don't see him as being a legit All Star or as more than the third scoring option on a championship caliber team. He's not a franchise player and the Sixers were maxed out at 35 or so wins with Jrue as "the guy." PG is also generally a lot easier to fill than a C/PF with Noel's skill set. MCW isn't as good a shooter and turns the ball over too much but he plays comparable defense and has a similar ceiling IMO.

 

Anyway nice talking hoops here. On to the Eagles and then looking forward to finally watching Noel play.

[WhiteWonder 2,996]

I feel Jrue is better and will be better than MCW but thats just me.

[MDC 8,085]

I feel Jrue is better and will be better than MCW but thats just me.

I think they're pretty comparable. Both big 6'6 PGs who are strong defenders but don't shoot particularly well.

 

Jrue is a better passer / facilitator. I think MCW will get better at assist to TO ratio as the team around him improves. MCW may be a slightly better defender and he's already a very good rebounder. Jrue has an advantage as a shooter. He's not great but he's okay. This is MCW's weakness and he needs to improve.

 

In Jrue's all star year he averaged 17.3 PPG vs. 16.7 for Carter Williams as a rookie. MCW's counting stats were inflated by pace and the awful team around him, but you could say similar things about Jrue's best season. If either of them are your leading scorer you're not a good team.

 

I see MCW's upside being similar. His PPG will probably go down this year but so will his turnovers and assists will go up. It's something of a wash to me.

[WhiteWonder 2,996]

I think they're pretty comparable. Both big 6'6 PGs who are strong defenders but don't shoot particularly well.

 

Jrue is a better passer / facilitator. I think MCW will get better at assist to TO ratio as the team around him improves. MCW may be a slightly better defender and he's already a very good rebounder. Jrue has an advantage as a shooter. He's not great but he's okay. This is MCW's weakness and he needs to improve.

 

In Jrue's all star year he averaged 17.3 PPG vs. 16.7 for Carter Williams as a rookie. MCW's counting stats were inflated by pace and the awful team around him, but you could say similar things about Jrue's best season. If either of them are your leading scorer you're not a good team.

 

I see MCW's upside being similar. His PPG will probably go down this year but so will his turnovers and assists will go up. It's something of a wash to me.

 

i do think MCW is a good player but his shooting % was way worse than Holidays career %.

 

i would also say that his counting stats were more 'padded' than Jrue's from his Philly days. Jru had more talent around him to eat up a lot of counting stats... Hawes was still there Iggy was still there. regardless of you hating him, Turner was still there being given the ball.

 

I also like that Jrue is just 2 years (1.5 actually) older than MCW but has 4 more seasons under his belt

 

 

but you're right, its probably closer than i think.

[MDC 8,085]

 

i do think MCW is a good player but his shooting % was way worse than Holidays career %.

 

i would also say that his counting stats were more 'padded' than Jrue's from his Philly days. Jru had more talent around him to eat up a lot of counting stats... Hawes was still there Iggy was still there. regardless of you hating him, Turner was still there being given the ball.

 

I also like that Jrue is just 2 years (1.5 actually) older than MCW but has 4 more seasons under his belt

 

 

but you're right, its probably closer than i think.

That's sort of what I said. Jrue is no doubt a better shooter and more polished. I think MCW is a slightly better defender and he's clearly a better rebound. MCW's scoring stats were inflated by pace and necessity. On the other hand, his assists and shooting percentage were hurt by playing on a team with far less talent.

 

Who cares? Jrue got the Sixers a haul. He's a nice guy and I wish him a long productive career.

[phillybear 366]

I am a big supporter of what the Sixers did in this draft and their future looks a hell of a lot more promising than at any point in forever. Very impressive job.

[Herbivore 1,222]

 

I think it comes down to either Smart / Randle / Gordon for Celtics. Randle has a injury issue and I simply think they'll have Smart as the best player available on their board when their pick comes. And they already have alot of young front court players so they'll pass on Gordon.

 

Smart it is. Nice call KSB. Don't know if its the best pick for the Cs. They have a few front court players, but none are particularly good, like next level good. I would have rather went Randle. Looks like trade Rondo at the deadline, and rebuild with all youngsters.

[WhiteWonder 2,996]

 

Smart it is. Nice call KSB. Don't know if its the best pick for the Cs. They have a few front court players, but none are particularly good, like next level good. I would have rather went Randle. Looks like trade Rondo at the deadline, and rebuild with all youngsters.

 

got to trade Rondo. 28 year old malcontent doesn't really fit with the rebuilding. Im not sure Smart was the .... um... smartest pick but not bad. They should be able to get a nice haul for Rondo. Teams with shoot first superstars should be looking to pair them with a facilitator and defender of Rondos caliber.