Astros pitcher intentionally throws at Bonds

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

What penalties has Sheffield served? He is linked at the hip in the BALCO investigation as well as "Game of Shadows".

 

Suspend him. Suspend Giambi as well.

 

Do you think that we could add A-Rod to the list as well? Perhaps Jeter?

[hoytdwow 202]

I understand fine, I just think it is hypocritical and unjust.

You seem willing to admit he's guilty.

Just because other guilty people get away with it he should too? What kind of justice is that?

[KSB2424 3,148]

who ever told you life would be fair?

 

You are exactly right. I guess thats just the way it is

 

It just bothers me that the general public who don't closely follow baseball, have no idea that Gary Sheffield has almost the exact same evidence against him for steroid use as Barry Bonds. Yet Bonds is portrayed as some kind of monster, and Sheff gets cheered and plays seemingly without a care in the world.

 

I'm just not that big on scapegoats.

[t.j 35]

You are exactly right. I guess thats just the way it is

 

It just bothers me that the general public who don't closely follow baseball, have no idea that Gary Sheffield has almost the exact same evidence against him for steroid use as Barry Bonds. Yet Bonds is portrayed as some kind of monster, and Sheff gets cheered and plays seemingly without a care in the world.

 

I'm just not that big on scapegoats.

 

It might have something to do with the fact that Bonds is a grade-A asshole.

[IN$TANT REPAY 11]

here are my feelings on various things that surround this issue:

 

 

1. The witchhunt.

 

Several weeks ago about 10 players were suspended for steriod abuse by MLB. Yet none of it made the headlines in various sports outlets or in the mainstream media or even on sportstalk radio. I guess that pitchers are trying to hit 70 HRs a year too.

 

Article #1:

 

"Four players were suspended for 50 games each for testing positive: Los Angeles Angels pitcher Karl Jelinas, New York Mets pitcher Jorge Reyes, St. Louis outfielder Yonathan Sivira and San Diego pitcher Matthew Varner. "

 

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/041...ended18-ON.html

 

Article #2

 

"Toronto Blue Jays minor-league pitcher Edward Rodriguez received a 50-game suspension for using steroids."

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5496056

 

Palmiero pointed his finger at Congressmen while proclaiming that he did not take any steriods. A couple of weeks later he tested positve.

 

Bonds is the posterboy for roids, yet he has never tested positive.

 

I am not saying that he did not ever take any roids in his entire lifetime, but so many people are not even aware that he WAS even tested multiple times....and passed.

 

Congress went to MLB and told them to get steriods out of the game in the late 1960s! Yet Dud Selig talks about this problem as if it just happened 8 years ago?

 

What I got out of the latest investigation movment is:

 

-Steriods are not bad if players are getting bigger all of a sudden.

 

-Steriods are not bad if pitchers are taking them.

 

-Steriods are not bad if it helps the public to come back to baseball after the strike, to watch Sosa and Big Mac.

 

-Steriods are not bad if the users are going to break the single season HR record.

 

-Steriods are only bad if you are chasing the all time HR record.

 

 

 

2. Dud Selig.

 

On 3/29/06 a reporter on the CBS Evening News interviewed former commissioner Fey Vincent and he said that 50% of all baseball players used roids in the 1990s.

 

 

If a former commish knows this...why does the current commish act like a

 

A yahoo.com sports writer said that if this investigation is as fair and thorough and as fact finding as the panel says that it will be, then BUD SELIG WILL BE FORCED TO HAND IN HIS RESIGNATION because of what happened during his watch.

 

 

 

3. The "fame" of Shadows.

 

As I was saying earlier......when I was listening to local sports radio in Atlanta last month this "author" was described as an opportunistic "hack." He is the same guy who did something on John Rocker a while back. Understand that the local guys do not have too much love for Barry Bonds....after all they live in Hank Aaron's backyard.

 

But they do not take this guy's book as being anything credible. One of the guys kept pointing to a ridiculously long quote that he said that the author had to have worn a wire to get down word for word.

 

And who are these "others" that he hints about in his passages? Are they the same characters on LOST? Get some names!

 

From the Book, Game of Shawdows:

 

"On an otherwise ordinary night, over an otherwise ordinary meal, Griffey, Bonds, a rep from an athletic apparel company and two other associates chatted informally about the upcoming season."

 

 

"Silence."

 

"According to others in the room, Griffey was uncertain how to react. At age 29, he was at the top of his game, fresh off a season in which he compiled 56 home runs and 146 RBIs. "

 

And then Griffey said that he did not recall the conversations.

 

And George Mitchell does not even have the power of subpoena? Goood luck with that.....

 

 

4. Amphetamines/Greenies (as told by others):

 

"Taking certain drugs such as amphetamines, dopamine, corticosteroids, and phenothiazines may increase and decrease growth hormone secretion, respectively. Other factors influencing hGH secretion include stress, exercise, diet, and abnormal glucose levels."

 

Link: http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/...rmone_tests.jsp

*******************

"Amphetamines were not being used for kicks," former major-league left-hander Bill "Spaceman" Lee wrote in his book The Wrong Stuff. "They were being used to sober up ... to get the pulse going on the morning after the night before."

 

Going without help from chemistry was so rare that a player who did not use amphetamines was said to be "naked." Better to have a team full of speed freaks, because the other dugout had a full supply of greenies.

 

In his book Perfect I'm Not: Boomer on Beer, Brawls, Backaches and Baseball, Boston Red Sox left-hander David Wells, wrote: "Those little buggers will open your eyes, sharpen your focus and get your blood moving on demand over and over again. I won't ever object to a sleepy-eyed infielder beaning up to help me win."

 

link: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...s.219bf510.html

********************

""I've been around clubhouses for 46 years, and there's no question amphetamine use was going on in the big leagues"

-Bud Selig

 

Link: below after next blurb.

********************

"Selig began pushing for a ban on amphetamines in April, a month after he endured a grueling congressional hearing on the use of performance-enhancing substances.

 

Baseball's efforts to ban amphetamines increased during spring training 2004, when Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler died after a team workout in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. Bechler had taken an over-the-counter supplement that contained the stimulant ephedrine.

 

Ephedrine is now a banned substance in baseball.

 

Major League Baseball and the players association have taken steps to make sure players don't unknowingly ingest supplements that are tainted with banned substances.

 

Donald Fehr, the chief of the players association, told Phillies players in a meeting Sunday not to use supplements made outside the United States. Baseball has announced it will sell legal heath supplements to players who believe they need them."

 

Link: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ts/14042677.htm

 

5. Everything old is new again.

 

"Congress first investigated drugs and professional sports, including steroids over 30 years ago. I think perhaps the only two people in the room who will remember this are me and Commissioner Selig, because I believe he became an owner in 1970.

 

In 1973, the year I first ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce concluded a year-long investigation that found — and I quote — “drug use exists … in all sports and levels of competition … In some instances, the degree of improper drug use — primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids — can only be described as alarming.”

 

The Committee’s chairman — Harley Staggers — was concerned that making those findings public in a hearing would garner excessive attention and might actually encourage teenagers to use steroids. Instead, he quietly met with the commissioners of the major sports, and they assured him the problem would be taken care of.

 

Chairman Staggers urged Baseball Commissioner Bowie Kuhn to consider instituting tough penalties and testing. And he trusted Commissioner Kuhn to do that. In fact, in a press release in May 1973, Chairman Staggers said — and again I quote — “Based on the constructive responses and assurances I have received from these gentlemen, I think self-regulation will be intensified, and will be effective.”

 

But as we now know from 30 years of history, baseball failed to regulate itself."

 

Link: http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov/stor...eaders=1&ID=816

 

 

6. Bar-roid (my thoughts)

 

I care that he may have cheated. But how has this BEEN PROVEN as of yet? There is a saying in baseball that says, "if you aint cheatin' then you aint trying." So I guess that I should hate everyone that tries? The pitchers that scuff the balls that allows them to pass other players on all time strikeout lists. The players that steal signs that allow them to steal bases/get base hits to pass other players on various lists.....etc.

 

Bonds said that he unknowingly took something.

 

Find the man who stuck the needles in him.

 

Find the man that says Bonds knew what he took. Get him to say yes I helped Bonds inject roids into his body. Yes I have him on tape saying this...LET ME PLAY it for you.

 

Supposedly there are answering machine tapes out there of him saying something to some woman. Find those and play them for me and the public.

 

Yes I might have a problem with Bonds doing what he did, but I have a bigger problem with Selig and MLB for allowing this to happen and EVEN TRYING to really do anything about the problem until congress stepped in AGAIN....after 30 years later.

 

Right now I only have a problem because it seems like the general public and maybe even baseball wants to punish one player. I say punish them all or punish nobody. Don't tell me that BB should be kicked out of baseball, when Giambi, Sheffield, Lawton, Sanchez, etc. are still allowed to hawk spit all over the infield.

 

Yes, I could have a problem with Bonds....but I have an even bigger problem with the double standard scenarios.

 

 

7. A few questions (from me)

 

Suppose that in 2000, 2001 or beyond, a player tried steriods ONCE.

 

And this player decided afterwards that it was not for him. He might not have liked how he felt mentally (felt guilty) or physically.

 

Or maybe he had a change of heart. Maybe he could have had more time to think about what he was about to do and changed his mind or whatever. But, then this player decides to never take roids again.

 

So we fast forward to 2006....and it is discovered that he took roids in this investigation.

 

Do we throw all of his stats out of the window for his "mistake?"

 

This guy could have tried roids FOR ONE DAY during the offseason or one year during spring training.

 

But now in 2006, it comes out that he did something, that was not against the rules of the sport. What should the verdict be for him? Should he be banned forever from the sport? Denied entry into the Hall of Fame?

 

Do we treat all of the players that have taken roids the same way...no matter what rate was that they took them in?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

here are my feelings on various things that surround this issue:

 

You spent a lot of time typing that up and thinking about your responses and I don't dismiss all of your points. However, you seem like a Bonds apologist. Bear in mind that this thread is about people not liking Bonds. Part of it is because of 'roids, part of it is his bad attitude, and part of it is just public perception.

 

However,

1. You did not hear a lot about those guys because they were minor leaguers. If a potential HOF'er does it, it is big news. If that same guy continues to deny it, continues to play, and continues to approach records, then he will catch grief. If McGwire had not ridden off into the sunset, he would have caught as much grief as Bonds.

2. I agree that Selig is a spineless figurehead. However, as much blame (if not more) really falls on Donald Fehr and the MLBPA. They have fought drug testing almost to the point that Congress got involved. Imagine the hypocrisy if that ever came to pass. Ted Kennedy telling people what they can do while they play baseball.

3. You should not dismiss the authors of "Shadows". These are not SF hacks with a vendetta against Bonds. They are pretty well respected in the baseball writers world. Much of their info comes from grand jury testimony (hence unnamed sources), but they have been able to validate it from multiple sources.

4. Amphetamines were estimated to be used by 75% of baseball players. It was a huge problem. Let's see how players do in the dog days of summer when they are playing 30 games in 30 days. However, the impact of amphetamines in making HGH is not that significant. The body makes it naturally and stimulants like amphetamines merely increase that production short term. Steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs are far more significant in their impact in that regard. Steroids and amphetamines should have been tested for sooner and hopefully HGH can be tested for soon.

5. Yup. I agree. Steroids and other drugs have been a problem for a while. Again, that blame needs to be shared with the Players Association who has consistently fought any attempts to perform drug testing. Only under the threat of Congressional scrutiny did the players agree to testing and when they did, it was so watered down that they had to come back to the table or Congress would have taken the decisions out of their hands.

6. I don't get it. Has it come to the point that you have to have a video of someone committing the crime before they are guilty? One question: Do you believe that OJ killed those people? If not, then I have my answer.

7. A player who does steroids once will not have any benefits, which is what makes Bonds and Sheffield look like total idiots. Same thing with Palmiero.

[IN$TANT REPAY 11]

You spent a lot of time typing that up and thinking about your responses and I don't dismiss all of your points. However, you seem like a Bonds apologist. Bear in mind that this thread is about people not liking Bonds. Part of it is because of 'roids, part of it is his bad attitude, and part of it is just public perception.

 

However,

1. You did not hear a lot about those guys because they were minor leaguers. If a potential HOF'er does it, it is big news. If that same guy continues to deny it, continues to play, and continues to approach records, then he will catch grief. If McGwire had not ridden off into the sunset, he would have caught as much grief as Bonds.

2. I agree that Selig is a spineless figurehead. However, as much blame (if not more) really falls on Donald Fehr and the MLBPA. They have fought drug testing almost to the point that Congress got involved. Imagine the hypocrisy if that ever came to pass. Ted Kennedy telling people what they can do while they play baseball.

3. You should not dismiss the authors of "Shadows". These are not SF hacks with a vendetta against Bonds. They are pretty well respected in the baseball writers world. Much of their info comes from grand jury testimony (hence unnamed sources), but they have been able to validate it from multiple sources.

4. Amphetamines were estimated to be used by 75% of baseball players. It was a huge problem. Let's see how players do in the dog days of summer when they are playing 30 games in 30 days. However, the impact of amphetamines in making HGH is not that significant. The body makes it naturally and stimulants like amphetamines merely increase that production short term. Steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs are far more significant in their impact in that regard. Steroids and amphetamines should have been tested for sooner and hopefully HGH can be tested for soon.

5. Yup. I agree. Steroids and other drugs have been a problem for a while. Again, that blame needs to be shared with the Players Association who has consistently fought any attempts to perform drug testing. Only under the threat of Congressional scrutiny did the players agree to testing and when they did, it was so watered down that they had to come back to the table or Congress would have taken the decisions out of their hands.

6. I don't get it. Has it come to the point that you have to have a video of someone committing the crime before they are guilty? One question: Do you believe that OJ killed those people? If not, then I have my answer.

7. A player who does steroids once will not have any benefits, which is what makes Bonds and Sheffield look like total idiots. Same thing with Palmiero.

 

 

I respect your replies.

 

[IN$TANT REPAY 11]

adding this to the record....

 

Report: Grimsley implicated in steroids probe

 

The newspaper reported Tuesday night an affidavit filed by the lead federal investigator in Major League Baseball's steroids investigation cited Grimsley as saying amphetamines were used "like aspirin" in team clubhouses.

 

 

According to the affidavit, the Republic reported Grimsley provided "details about his knowledge of other Major League Baseball players" using illegal performance-enhancing drugs, including people close to him.

 

 

 

The Republic reported Grimsley had a two-hour interview with federal investigators on April 19, during which he said major league clubhouses had coffee pots labeled "leaded" and "unleaded" for coffee with amphetamines and without.

 

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/scorecard/ml...rticleID=168003