On the Clock!

[ellisonb11 0]

No doubt that is all true fellas. Manning in the mid-to late-first round would be tough to pass up. In standard scoring league your RB would have to get 2,000 total yards and 35 TDs to equal Manning's output. I am among the believers, in general, of stacking up on RBs early. A guy in one of my leagues has Peyton as his one keeper. He gets drunk before/during/after the draft, does little research, and usually isn't paying attention, yet he gets far in the playoffs every year on Manning's back. The guy basically trades the next year's picks early in the season, gets a Tiki and a Hines Ward or TO, and then rides them all the way. He has horrible picks the next draft, but then just trades away the subsequent year's picks and is back in the playoffs again and again. I might be re-thinking taking Manning in a league in which TD passes are 6 pts each. It's too much production to pass up. Then, you can swipe a solid RB on the way around and you're solid. If you have a plan in place, then you can be fine. Someone is always looking to make a deal.

 

i get what your saying, but why not wait and grab a palmer or bulger later in the rounds. solid rbs will drop off after the first 1-3 rounds, while good QB's are still lying around later in the draft. stick with RB

[football_scooter 0]

i get what your saying, but why not wait and grab a palmer or bulger later in the rounds. solid rbs will drop off after the first 1-3 rounds, while good QB's are still lying around later in the draft. stick with RB

 

Well that's why Manning has the value he does - both those guys are coming off injury - Palmer a shreded knee and though the team says all the right things about his progress, he still could miss 4-6 weeks. And Bulger just had a 2nd shoulder injury, which for a QB is a tough one. See: Pennington

 

Manning is the safest QB in football right now. Bulger & Palmer's upside is an average season for Manning.

 

Again - not saying I'd take him since I'm a RB die-hard, but 2 straight years I've gone RB-RB only to see one of them get hurt...I'd actually be tempted to grab the stud QB and take my chances on early 2nd-late 3rd down backs and see what happens.

 

And if I'm picking 6th and take Edge, and PM makes it around the horn, it's a no brainer at 2.07

[Steel City Blues 0]

No doubt that is all true fellas. Manning in the mid-to late-first round would be tough to pass up. In standard scoring league your RB would have to get 2,000 total yards and 35 TDs to equal Manning's output.

 

Manning's numbers vs. a RB is apples to gobstoppers. That's why kickers don't go in the first round.

 

I might be re-thinking taking Manning in a league in which TD passes are 6 pts each. It's too much production to pass up. Then, you can swipe a solid RB on the way around and you're solid. If you have a plan in place, then you can be fine. Someone is always looking to make a deal.

 

 

This is why taking Peyton could be very bad at 1.08

 

1.01 Larry Johnson

1.02 SA

1.03 LT

1.04 Portis

1.05 Tiki

1.06 Edge

1.07 Lamont Jordon

1.08 Peyton (your pick)

1.09 Steven Jackson

1.10 Caddy

1.11 Ronnie Brown

1.12 Rudi Johnson

2.01 McGahee

2.02 Dom Davis

2.03 Julius Jones

2.04 Westbrook

2.05 (your pick) Do you reach for Jamal Lewis, CTaylor, Reggie Bush, or Kevin Jones as your #1 RB? Time to jump to the stud QB/WR theory?

 

Best case you will probably have 1 or 2 WR taken in there somewhere which could net you Westbrook or Julius Jones as your stud RB. (don't count on Westy being there if it's PPR)

 

Congrats! You took Manning @ 1.08 & now you are on the clock at 2.05 GO!

[Marshall_Law 0]

Well that's why Manning has the value he does - both those guys are coming off injury - Palmer a shreded knee and though the team says all the right things about his progress, he still could miss 4-6 weeks. And Bulger just had a 2nd shoulder injury, which for a QB is a tough one. See: Pennington

 

Pennington was a much different case, he needed surgery, Bulger didn't. That was just a horrible comparison.

[football_scooter 0]

Pennington was a much different case, he needed surgery, Bulger didn't. That was just a horrible comparison.

The fact is that the point is valid, even if you don't like the comparison - Peyton Manning is the safest QB in football right now.

 

Personally, I always do the freefall and would rather have Eli in the 8th than Peyton in the 1st - but that doesn't mean a case can't be made for taking him there.

 

I didn't mean to imply that Bulger's was as bad. But now that he's missed time in 2 seasons, and last year more significantly so, I am mroe than a little concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

 

Reach back with your right arm, as though you were about to pass...now imagine a LB smacking that ball out of your hand.

 

To someone with an intact shoulder, this isn't an issue. To someone who's partially torn a rotator cuff, it could mean 8 weeks of the season.

 

I'm not saying i'm totally down on Bulger, but the comparison is not at all horrible. Taking a QB coming off 2 straight seasons of shoulder injuries and you are asking for trouble. Not to mention that the Rams will be turning more to the run as they've been saying...

 

You obviously have a higher tollerance for risk than I do when gambling. Each to their own.

 

 

 

Manning's numbers vs. a RB is apples to gobstoppers. That's why kickers don't go in the first round.

This is why taking Peyton could be very bad at 1.08

 

1.01 Larry Johnson

1.02 SA

1.03 LT

1.04 Portis

1.05 Tiki

1.06 Edge

1.07 Lamont Jordon

1.08 Peyton (your pick)

1.09 Steven Jackson

1.10 Caddy

1.11 Ronnie Brown

1.12 Rudi Johnson

2.01 McGahee

2.02 Dom Davis

2.03 Julius Jones

2.04 Westbrook

2.05 (your pick) Do you reach for Jamal Lewis, CTaylor, Reggie Bush, or Kevin Jones as your #1 RB? Time to jump to the stud QB/WR theory?

 

Best case you will probably have 1 or 2 WR taken in there somewhere which could net you Westbrook or Julius Jones as your stud RB. (don't count on Westy being there if it's PPR)

 

Congrats! You took Manning @ 1.08 & now you are on the clock at 2.05 GO!

 

Right - not one WR is going before 2.05 - Heck of an argument. I'm nearly convinced by it.

 

That's kinda unrealistic I think. No steve smth, Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson. Nothing but RBs for 17 straight picks. Because you know, lots of smart fantasy managers would rather have the 17th best RB instead of the 1st best WR.

[Steel City Blues 0]

OK, you called me out.

 

Just look as Sweetness' REAL draft. Not some made up ON THE CLOCK scenario.

1.01 LJ

1.02 LT

1.03 Shaun Alexander

1.04 Edge

1.05 Steven Jackson

1.06 Tiki Barber (my pick)

1.07 Portis

1.08 Lamont Jordan

1.09 Rudi Johnson

1.10 Caddy

1.11 Ronnie Brown

1.12 Mcgahee

2.01 Westbrook

2.02 Dom Davis

 

First 14 picks were RBs. Throw Peyton in there at 1.08 and see what is left at 2.05 & get back to me.

 

These people obviously rated this group of backs higher than the #1 WR. If I grant you a Steve Smith type pick before 2.05, you will get Julius Jones as your #1 back.

 

That is why I stated

Best case you will probably have 1 or 2 WR taken in there somewhere which could net you Westbrook or Julius Jones as your stud RB. (don't count on Westy being there if it's PPR)

 

Still like Manning at 1.08?

[Jackson Biggs 0]

personally would take rudi over Steve...that being said, I never take a QB early, UNLESS that QB is Manning AND all TDs are worth 6pts...at 6pts a TD, Manning is worth it over SJax

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

OK, you called me out.

 

Just look as Sweetness' REAL draft. Not some made up ON THE CLOCK scenario.

1.01 LJ

1.02 LT

1.03 Shaun Alexander

1.04 Edge

1.05 Steven Jackson

1.06 Tiki Barber (my pick)

1.07 Portis

1.08 Lamont Jordan

1.09 Rudi Johnson

1.10 Caddy

1.11 Ronnie Brown

1.12 Mcgahee

2.01 Westbrook

2.02 Dom Davis

 

First 14 picks were RBs. Throw Peyton in there at 1.08 and see what is left at 2.05 & get back to me.

 

These people obviously rated this group of backs higher than the #1 WR. If I grant you a Steve Smith type pick before 2.05, you will get Julius Jones as your #1 back.

 

That is why I stated

Best case you will probably have 1 or 2 WR taken in there somewhere which could net you Westbrook or Julius Jones as your stud RB. (don't count on Westy being there if it's PPR)

 

Still like Manning at 1.08?

 

 

Go ahead and look at the draft that's going on. There's a team that didn't take a RB until the 3rd and he may end up with arguably the best team. He's got Delhomme, Willie Parker, and Warrick Dunn, plus some decent if not spectacular RB depth. Then his receivers are T.O., Fitzgerald, and Chambers. That guy's team could end up blowing away the rest of the field.

 

The point is, sure, there may be some crazy runs on RB's in drafts like this but I'd take value instead of just following the other RB theory guys. Some dudes refuse to sway from the RB theory and it can bite them. Give me the best guys at the other positions and then I'll cobble together my backfield and strengthen it over the year. I'm looking for difference makers and Peyton Manning is a difference maker.

[football_scooter 0]

Go ahead and look at the draft that's going on. There's a team that didn't take a RB until the 3rd and he may end up with arguably the best team. He's got Delhomme, Willie Parker, and Warrick Dunn, plus some decent if not spectacular RB depth. Then his receivers are T.O., Fitzgerald, and Chambers. That guy's team could end up blowing away the rest of the field.

 

The point is, sure, there may be some crazy runs on RB's in drafts like this but I'd take value instead of just following the other RB theory guys. Some dudes refuse to sway from the RB theory and it can bite them. Give me the best guys at the other positions and then I'll cobble together my backfield and strengthen it over the year. I'm looking for difference makers and Peyton Manning is a difference maker.

 

pwnd

 

 

and FYI, I don't like PManning at 1.08 - but some will, and I can't say it's a terrible strategy. That's the point Steel City Blues keeps missing somehow.

[TD Ryan2 316]

Some dudes refuse to sway from the RB theory and it can bite them. Give me the best guys at the other positions and then I'll cobble together my backfield and strengthen it over the year. I'm looking for difference makers and Peyton Manning is a difference maker.

 

 

 

What has Stephen Jackson done to deserve the Fantasy Football credentials that put him on par with Manning?

He's a Running Back? Is that it?

 

In looking at SJax's game logs, he rarely hits the 100 yard mark and he's not a TD machine.

Jackson looks to have exactly ONE game that could be considered fantasy elite: 10/30/2005 JAX; 179rush, 19rec, 3TDs.

On that particular week, Jackson likely "won the week" for his owners.

Manning "wins the week" for his owners frequently; as Basnight stated, Manning is a difference maker.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

 

What has Stephen Jackson done to deserve the Fantasy Football credentials that put him on par with Manning?

He's a Running Back? Is that it?

 

Manning "wins the week" for his owners frequently; as Basnight stated, Manning is a difference maker.

 

Last year Manning had another outstanding year and was 4th best QB in my league, barely better than the #8. Except for yardage, last year was fairly typical of his career output, so it's not like he had a "down" year, or you should expect more from him this year. The Colts certainly won last year so perhaps this is the type of play we should start to expect. You guys are too hung up on the name and that 49 TD season.

[Marshall_Law 0]

 

What has Stephen Jackson done to deserve the Fantasy Football credentials that put him on par with Manning?

He's a Running Back? Is that it?

 

In looking at SJax's game logs, he rarely hits the 100 yard mark and he's not a TD machine.

Jackson looks to have exactly ONE game that could be considered fantasy elite: 10/30/2005 JAX; 179rush, 19rec, 3TDs.

On that particular week, Jackson likely "won the week" for his owners.

Manning "wins the week" for his owners frequently; as Basnight stated, Manning is a difference maker.

 

Manning 2004-2005

 

Manning wasn't a difference maker last year. Compare his 2004 numbers with 2005 from the link above. He had 810 less yards and 21 less TDs in 05 than 04. He was a difference maker in 2004 no doubt, but last year he was just a QB mixed in with the rest of the top 5 or so. He is definately the #1 QB, but not a difference maker. If you have 2 crap RBs, he will not be able to make up the missing points to cover for them. Also, if you take Peyton in the 1st you are likely to be going RB at least the next 2 rounds if not 3, so you will probably end up with worse WRs as well as RBs. Better off taking Brady or Hasselbeck in the 5th or 6th IMO, and putting together a good RB and WR corps.

[TD Ryan2 316]

You guys are too hung up on the name and that 49 TD season.

 

I'd rather not look at JUST last year OR the 49 TD year.

Here's the average of Manning's numbers:

 

4149yards, 31TDs

 

THAT'S a Difference Maker.

If I draft Manning, I'm looking for 4,000 yards and 30 TDs.

If I get lucky, I'll get 35+ TDs out of him.

If I'm unlucky I'll get 28- TDs out of him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Manning 2004-2005

Also, if you take Peyton in the 1st you are likely to be going RB at least the next 2 rounds if not 3, so you will probably end up with worse WRs as well as RBs. Better off taking Brady or Hasselbeck in the 5th or 6th IMO, and putting together a good RB and WR corps.

 

NO.

 

I'm not gonna' draft Westbrook or Julius Jones over Owens or Steve Smith in the second round JUST because I need a RB.

 

 

Again, Don't get me wrong. I'm not looking to draft a QB early. I fully understand that waiting on a QB is a decent strategy.

But Manning vs. Stephen Jackson... I just don't see how you don't take Manning.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Manning 2004-2005

 

Manning wasn't a difference maker last year. Compare his 2004 numbers with 2005 from the link above. He had 810 less yards and 21 less TDs in 05 than 04. He was a difference maker in 2004 no doubt, but last year he was just a QB mixed in with the rest of the top 5 or so. He is definately the #1 QB, but not a difference maker. If you have 2 crap RBs, he will not be able to make up the missing points to cover for them. Also, if you take Peyton in the 1st you are likely to be going RB at least the next 2 rounds if not 3, so you will probably end up with worse WRs as well as RBs. Better off taking Brady or Hasselbeck in the 5th or 6th IMO, and putting together a good RB and WR corps.

 

 

Agreed, Peyton's yards were down from his usual and he obviously scored less td's than the previous year but I think most would agree that he's in an elite tier all by himself going into this year, he never gets hurt, he has the power in that offense to call his own number whenever he wants, Edge is gone so you know they won't have as much faith in the running game this year, and I'd imagine most would think last year was a down year and he should have better numbers this year.

 

And even though I'm a firm believer in Jackson for this year, he's nowhere near the elite player in FF that Manning is. Manning is a shoe-in for top 3 this year while Jackson could put up top 5 numbers or he could drop to top 15. And again, I refer back to the draft that's currently going on....the guy who traded away his 1st round pick and picked wr back-back-back still looks to have a solid team. Willie Parker or Warrick Dunn could easily have better numbers than Steven Jackson because Jackson not a sure thing like Manning is. And this guy's draft debunks what you mentioned about if you take Peyton in the 1st you'd have to take RB's with your next 2 picks.

[Marshall_Law 0]

I'd rather not look at JUST last year OR the 49 TD year.

Here's the average of Manning's numbers:

 

4149yards, 31TDs

 

THAT'S a Difference Maker.

If I draft Manning, I'm looking for 4,000 yards and 30 TDs.

If I get lucky, I'll get 35+ TDs out of him.

If I'm unlucky I'll get 28- TDs out of him.

NO.

 

I'm not gonna' draft Westbrook or Julius Jones over Owens or Steve Smith in the second round JUST because I need a RB.

Again, Don't get me wrong. I'm not looking to draft a QB early. I fully understand that waiting on a QB is a decent strategy.

But Manning vs. Stephen Jackson... I just don't see how you don't take Manning.

 

His average may come to 30.5 TDs per year, but in his 8 year career he only threw for 30 or more TDs in 2 of those years. His 49 TD year makes his average balloon. I still agree he is #1 among QBs, but I wouldn't take him in the 1st round.

[TD Ryan2 316]

His average may come to 30.5 TDs per year, but in his 8 year career he only threw for 30 or more TDs in 2 of those years. His 49 TD year makes his average balloon. I still agree he is #1 among QBs, but I wouldn't take him in the 1st round.

 

this is what makes the OnTheClocks a bit tough.

I'm not looking to draft a QB in the first round either.

But straight up, if it's Manning vs. SJackson, I'll take Manning.

 

even last year, when Manning was "struggling", you'd have been hard pressed to find an owner that would trade Manning straight up for SJackson.

Manning provides you with 2 very valuable ffball commodities, Consistency with AMAZING Upside.

 

 

For me, passing on Manning for SJax would be like passing on one of the elite WR in the second round for a hit/miss tier3 RB... I won't do it.

 

Starting out your draft with Manning then Owens (or SSmith) isn't draft suicide, though the stud-RB crowd would have you think so.

Sure, you'll be chasing RBs thru the mid rounds but there's still some decent RBs to be had... RBs that may well outperform SJax.

[football_scooter 0]

Starting out your draft with Manning then Owens (or SSmith) isn't draft suicide, though the stud-RB crowd would have you think so.

Sure, you'll be chasing RBs thru the mid rounds but there's still some decent RBs to be had... RBs that may well outperform SJax.

 

at 1.08, you could conceivably go Manning => Owens => CTaylor => FWParker

 

Hell of a starting 4 to build a team around. One man's opinion.

[Gepetto 1,365]

at 1.08, you could conceivably go Manning => Owens => CTaylor => FWParker

 

Hell of a starting 4 to build a team around. One man's opinion.

 

I agree. Manning at 1.08 and Terrell Owens at 2.05 are both quality picks and best player available. I think it's stupid to reach in the 1st and 2nd round for running backs just b/c they're running backs. You have to look at each individual players statistics and projections (regardless of position) and consider consistency and upside / potential for big games (100+ yards (300+ for QBs) and multiple touchdowns).

 

There are running backs that can help you win in the 3rd, 4th, and even later rounds.

[Parja 0]

at 1.08, you could conceivably go Manning => Owens => CTaylor => FWParker

 

Hell of a starting 4 to build a team around. One man's opinion.

 

Huh, looking at ADPs, it looks quite possible to get those 4. Kind of surprising.

[ellisonb11 0]

Manning's numbers vs. a RB is apples to gobstoppers. That's why kickers don't go in the first round.

This is why taking Peyton could be very bad at 1.08

 

1.01 Larry Johnson

1.02 SA

1.03 LT

1.04 Portis

1.05 Tiki

1.06 Edge

1.07 Lamont Jordon

1.08 Peyton (your pick)

1.09 Steven Jackson

1.10 Caddy

1.11 Ronnie Brown

1.12 Rudi Johnson

2.01 McGahee

2.02 Dom Davis

2.03 Julius Jones

2.04 Westbrook

2.05 (your pick) Do you reach for Jamal Lewis, CTaylor, Reggie Bush, or Kevin Jones as your #1 RB? Time to jump to the stud QB/WR theory?

 

Best case you will probably have 1 or 2 WR taken in there somewhere which could net you Westbrook or Julius Jones as your stud RB. (don't count on Westy being there if it's PPR)

 

Congrats! You took Manning @ 1.08 & now you are on the clock at 2.05 GO!

 

good point here. i just believe that there wont be that much to offer at RB at 2.05, so i think u have to take a RB as ur first pick

[mikeso 0]

best RB available...no QB in the first round

[Steel City Blues 0]

good point here. i just believe that there wont be that much to offer at RB at 2.05, so i think u have to take a RB as ur first pick

 

:oldthumbsup:

Just think ahead before taking Manning. Don't take him if you are expecting to select a top RB at 2.05. He's a good pick if your stategy is to go QB/WR and have a plan to scruff out undervalued RBs later in the draft. Good luck.

 

 

And Scoot, I'm sure you realize I was just responding when you called my post unrealistic. I would bank on you taking a RB at 1.08 (maybe not SJax, but a RB). Sall good bro.

[football_scooter 0]

And Scoot, I'm sure you realize I was just responding when you called my post unrealistic. I would bank on you taking a RB at 1.08 (maybe not SJax, but a RB). Sall good bro.

Yeah, no worries - I just think Owens and SSmith will be taken before some of the backs you listed.

 

[hipcheck 0]

Seriously, Great Debate going on in here...

 

very good OTC "draft-day-plan" discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

.