Yippie Skippy 0 Posted August 25, 2006 So am I understanding the NE offer correctly by assuming that only the $4 million signing bonus is guaranteed money?? The option bonus for next season is in the contract in case Branch suffers a career ending injury, then the Pats wouldn't have to pay a larger injury settlement. Seems like a fluffed up contract with little substance written by NE for NE. Any agent would of been crazy to advise the signing of that contract. Cheapness has consequences. You can't take any QBs best two WRs away and expect a good season. Brady would have one the worst WR groups in the NFL. Cross them off of the SB contender list. I know I won't be drafting Brady or any of his WRs. TEs and RB are the only NE players I want. As a Branch owner I remain optimistic. As a Steeler fan, I am happy to see the Patsies take another step to the side for Pittsburgh to make another dynasty run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicewolf64 0 Posted August 25, 2006 I think Atlanta should offer the Pats once of their "star" first round WRs and give Vick 2 big time weapons. When he still has a crappy season, maybe they'll realize that to win in the NFL, you have to have a QB that can actually hit the broadship of an aircraft carrier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IckyFish 0 Posted August 25, 2006 As a Pats fan, I've watched this off season go by with them addressing the need for a couple solid, vertran WR's. Caldwell would have been a decent #3 but nothing more...but now he's a number 1/2. I mean, come on...Troy Brown as our #1? True, they drafted Jackson, but there were a couple of solid WR they could have gotten in free agency. Now it looks like we are going to be running 2 & 3 TE sets all year. Why were they not in the Lelie or Boerigter talks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alberteinstein 0 Posted August 25, 2006 I unfortunately have Caldwell as my WR5 and really hope he pans out as a bye week fill in but did anyone see him last week? His eyes looked like they were going to pop out of his head. java script:emoticon('',%20'smid_27')Seriously, he looked really really scared. Does he always look like this? Did he swallow a bug? I am a Chargers fan (have Gates as a keeper and try to draft LT every year) but I had never even bothered to give the guy a second glance until Branch started holding out. By the way scooter I like your Niners call but I think they may have to add a LB/DE/SS to the offer. New England is still looking for some speed in their defense and Seau did not fill that need. As far as John Clayton vs KNBR (you must be from the bay) I would say that both are useful for fantasy owners and football fans but obviously neither is infallible. They both work off of rumors and try to predict the future. Basically sports analysts are a lot like meteoroligosts, they only have to be right a small percentage of the time to keep their jobs. You do have to give Clayton props for being the by far the ugliest person on television. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted August 25, 2006 You do have to give Clayton props for being the by far the ugliest person on television. lmfao - soooooo true. And Caldwell's suppossedly been very impressive in camp and has developed a great rapport with Brady. He's very underrated and IMO a pretty good sleeper this year. Brady spreads it around, but if Branch is a no-show, Caldwell could see a season close to 1000/9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OB1 33 Posted August 25, 2006 I simply posted what I'd heard on the radio. I see you posted the link, but like the trolling asshat you are, you lie about the content. Here's exactly what I said: Imagine that - what I posted was within minutes of the article being released and hearing it on the radio. I admitted that it wasn't finalized and while I don't care much for your man-crush Clayton, I stated pretty clearly that I didn't in fact know because the details hadn't been released. But way to hold a grudge like a 12 year old girl. Now then you pile of sh!t, who's that showing their true colors? Why, looks like you, moron. Now go troll for someone else. Maybe come on back when you actually have something to contribute to this forum...oh, guess we'll never see you if you wait for that. LMAO, You site a local radio host, I site an ESPN analyst, who I honestly could care less about. I didn't rip your source, I merely posted a contrary opinion. Then days later when more info is out you continue to spread the rumor. I posted THREE links showing you were wrong. I'm a Jet fan, I have no mancrush on Clayton, I have a vested interest in seeing the Jet's not give away valuable picks for questionable character guys like Barlow. I don't post much here, but when I do it's usually quality over quantity. The only time I get snippy is when asshats spout misinformation and act like they are some authority. You seem to do it all the time. Have a great day, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted August 25, 2006 LMAO,You site a local radio host, I site an ESPN analyst, who I honestly could care less about. I didn't rip your source, I merely posted a contrary opinion. Then days later when more info is out you continue to spread the rumor. I posted THREE links showing you were wrong. I'm a Jet fan, I have no mancrush on Clayton, I have a vested interest in seeing the Jet's not give away valuable picks for questionable character guys like Barlow. I don't post much here, but when I do it's usually quality over quantity. The only time I get snippy is when asshats spout misinformation and act like they are some authority. You seem to do it all the time. Have a great day, riiiight - your "quantity over quality" amounts to 3 posts trolling for me with a hard on because I dared to report something I'd heard on the radio about the suggested details of a trade. 3 days later I didn't "continue to spread a rumor", I simly re-stated what I'd understood from the Niners beat writer on KNBR. Nw who's misinforming, jerk? Get some psychological help - some of us are here for football discussion. You're obviously here to exercise out some personal inferiority complex. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parja 0 Posted August 26, 2006 How about the Vikes? They are in need of a WR especially with KoRo out of the picture. I think the Vikings have enough WR2s already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Im-Ho-Tep 0 Posted August 26, 2006 Link to Betts being traded to Tennessee? exactly... probably a typo, thinking lendale white? Um....ever heard of a guy named Tom Brady, who consistently throws to at least 6 different receivers during the course of any given game? The Pats will sign Branch to an extension and he will be with the team for the start of the season. IMO he will fire his agent soon, and negotiate something close to what has already been talked about. don't forget all those TEs (watson/graham, and now two more rookies). maybe they'll run the single wing? i'd love to see him in KC though... who do we have again? kennison (old), parker (young but unproven), and ..... uh..... uh...... dante hall (only a kick returner), crap thorpe (will he ever see the field), and nobody. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtuna 0 Posted August 26, 2006 So am I understanding the NE offer correctly by assuming that only the $4 million signing bonus is guaranteed money?? The option bonus for next season is in the contract in case Branch suffers a career ending injury, then the Pats wouldn't have to pay a larger injury settlement. Seems like a fluffed up contract with little substance written by NE for NE. Any agent would of been crazy to advise the signing of that contract. Cheapness has consequences. You can't take any QBs best two WRs away and expect a good season. Brady would have one the worst WR groups in the NFL. Cross them off of the SB contender list. I know I won't be drafting Brady or any of his WRs. TEs and RB are the only NE players I want. As a Branch owner I remain optimistic. As a Steeler fan, I am happy to see the Patsies take another step to the side for Pittsburgh to make another dynasty run. The Giants won a Superbowl with Phil McConkey and Stephen Baker as their starters. The Patriots won a superbowl with street Free Agent David Pattern and Troy Brown who was cut 8 times by the Patriots. There are others...Ravens, Packers.. Fact is WR is not an intrical postion to championship play as say...QB'ing, or CB play or Pass rush or Lineplay. While i think a big play WR is important, i would hold the phojne on any wild proclamations, especially since the Pats may still trade him for say...Jerry Porter or something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bad_Mo_focher 1 Posted August 26, 2006 post of the day! You know what would be totaly slick... Niners have an incentive deal with the Jets...rumored to be a 4th rounder now, and if Barlow starts it's a 3rd rounder. If he gets 1000 yards (starter or not) it's a 2nd round pick. Niners should offer that pick to the pats for Branch, then do a trade & sign with him. Good deal for both teams, fills another need on the Niners and builds for the future. Pats get between a 4th and 2nd rounder for him. thoughts? I like your thought, that's my thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boston 0 Posted August 26, 2006 lmfao - soooooo true. And Caldwell's suppossedly been very impressive in camp and has developed a great rapport with Brady. He's very underrated and IMO a pretty good sleeper this year. Brady spreads it around, but if Branch is a no-show, Caldwell could see a season close to 1000/9 So, you think Caldwell has a chance to put up one of the two best seasons for a WR under BB? Why would Caldwell put up better numbers than Branch ever has? Branch is a far superior player and so far in actual preseason games Caldwell has looked pretty ordinary. Last year with Brown, Givens, Faulk, Dillon and Graham injured for extended periods of time (and nothing else at WR) and a wounded D that made passing a must Branch didn't have those numbers. I'd love to see your prediction come true but it's a very long shot. Whether Branch plays or not the ball is going to get spread around a ton and outside of Watson (potentially) no one's going to put up big receiving numbers. That's not how the Patriots passing game works and with Faulk healthy and Maroney, Mills and Thomas (and Jax if he ever gets healthy) onboard they actually have more options than last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted August 26, 2006 So, you think Caldwell has a chance to put up one of the two best seasons for a WR under BB? Why would Caldwell put up better numbers than Branch ever has? Branch is a far superior player and so far in actual preseason games Caldwell has looked pretty ordinary. Gee, maybe because Branch has been injured a ton. Kinda tricky to put up impressive numbers from here => Einstien. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ritchings 0 Posted August 26, 2006 Can you say Ben Watson = #1 WR. 3 TE all year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boston 0 Posted August 26, 2006 This move is an attempt to put the pressure on Branch's agent. They are putting him in a position to a) prove there are other teams who will pony up big cash and be willing to make a deal. If he comes back emptyhanded he puts Branch's back to the wall. The reason being is the Pats can still franchise Branch and he'll be in the exact same position next offseason and if he sits out 10 games his value is not going to increase anymore than it is now. Does he really want to go down this path two years in a row? The Pats are not going to blink. Branch is not Brady or Seymour and if they do something foolish for short term gain it will backfire on them long term when guys like Wilfork and Warren are in the same position. If Branch's agent can find a team willing to step up than a deal is possible. If not, don't be surprised to see Branch with a new agent. This situation is not pretty and it's really not benefitting either party but the bottomline is Branch still has a year left on his current deal and a franchise tag hanging over his head for next season and due to that he doesn't have a ton of leverage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted August 26, 2006 This move is an attempt to put the pressure on Branch's agent. They are putting him in a position to a) prove there are other teams who will pony up big cash and be willing to make a deal. If he comes back emptyhanded he puts Branch's back to the wall. The reason being is the Pats can still franchise Branch and he'll be in the exact same position next offseason and if he sits out 10 games his value is not going to increase anymore than it is now. Does he really want to go down this path two years in a row? The Pats are not going to blink. Branch is not Brady or Seymour and if they do something foolish for short term gain it will backfire on them long term when guys like Wilfork and Warren are in the same position. If Branch's agent can find a team willing to step up than a deal is possible. If not, don't be surprised to see Branch with a new agent. This situation is not pretty and it's really not benefitting either party but the bottomline is Branch still has a year left on his current deal and a franchise tag hanging over his head for next season and due to that he doesn't have a ton of leverage. Interesting insight...thanks for posting that. Will be fascinating to see what happens here. Early reports indicated a willingness to sit out a "large part of the season" - it sounds like you don't think that will happen? I like the move by the Pats though - I hole that do hold tough. And honestly I'm not so sure they'd play it any differently with Brady. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boston 0 Posted August 26, 2006 Gee, maybe because Branch has been injured a ton. Kinda tricky to put up impressive numbers from here => Einstien. Brabch was healthy for 16 games last year as well as playing with a QB who lead the NFL in passing. If there was ever a season a WR was going to put up numbers with the Pats it was last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
football_scooter 0 Posted August 26, 2006 Brabch was healthy for 16 games last year as well as playing with a QB who lead the NFL in passing. If there was ever a season a WR was going to put up numbers with the Pats it was last year. I didn't think he was healthy until the playoffs? Maybe Branch isn't that good. In any case, Caldell seems like the best receiving option in that offense after Watson. How many TEs can you use? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boston 0 Posted August 26, 2006 I didn't think he was healthy until the playoffs? Maybe Branch isn't that good. In any case, Caldell seems like the best receiving option in that offense after Watson. How many TEs can you use? It's not an issue of talent. It's how the Pats play football. They spread the ball around early and often which is why they spent a #2, #3 and #4 on more weapons for Brady. It plays to Brady's strength and it's how BB likes to play offense. That's why the Branch signing is tough. He's probably worth more to another team that will allow him to put up big numbers. Yet, it doesn't make sense for the Pats to pay monster bucks on a position they're not going to use to the fullest. I'm not trying to sell Branch short but on the Patriots WR is not as important as other positions are and unless a major league talent ends up in Foxboro I don't see any WR putting up great numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy918 0 Posted August 26, 2006 Never being happy again because they're making alot more money? Sure, winning is great. But let's be real, this is a job to them. Jobs pay money. NFL players make alot of money. Love of the game, love for your city, that's great. That's the great thing about being a fan. However, not respecting the economics and reality of the business is kinda silly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davidbostonisgood 2 Posted August 26, 2006 Link to Betts being traded to Tennessee? wondering the same thing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince44 205 Posted August 26, 2006 BB needs to give in for once, you need Branch locked up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boston 0 Posted August 26, 2006 BB needs to give in for once, you need Branch locked up. He did...with Seymour last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chiz3 1 Posted August 26, 2006 As a Bolts homer, Ill take Branch for a digruntled Donnie Edwards. Caldwell did ok with SD but he too has always hurt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shovelheadt 71 Posted August 26, 2006 Belichick was an economics major in college. He's gonna' let the market show Deion just how good NE's offer was. Belichick is an egotistical idiot. The only thing that's going to show up Deion is the timing, when most teams have spent their cap. New England on the other hand, is sitting with what...13 mil this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted August 26, 2006 Belichick is an egotistical idiot. The only thing that's going to show up Deion is the timing, when most teams have spent their cap. New England on the other hand, is sitting with what...13 mil this year. Calling a guy with 3 Super Bowl rings an "idiot?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shovelheadt 71 Posted August 26, 2006 Calling a guy with 3 Super Bowl rings an "idiot?" Losing your #1 and #2 WRs in the same year while letting 13mil go to waste is indeed stupid. Maybe not Bill, bu whomever made the call. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted August 26, 2006 Cheapness has consequences. You can't take any QBs best two WRs away and expect a good season. Brady would have one the worst WR groups in the NFL. Cross them off of the SB contender list. I know I won't be drafting Brady or any of his WRs. TEs and RB are the only NE players I want. As a Branch owner I remain optimistic. As a Steeler fan, I am happy to see the Patsies take another step to the side for Pittsburgh to make another dynasty run. Your have obviously never been in any kind of management / budget situation. Over paying for a slightly better than average WR is not how you win a SB. Branch averaged 700 yards and 3.5 TDs over his four year career. Do you think he deserves Harrison money? Calling a good business decision cheapness shows your knowledge of the business world is as lacking as your knowledge of WR talent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alberteinstein 0 Posted August 27, 2006 Phurfur, I have to jump in here and do a close reading of your last post. You begin by saying, "Your have obviously never been in any kind of management / budget situation." Now if I am not mistaken from the writing of this sentence you are probably the manager of either 1) A recruiting office 2) A Mortgage Brokerage or 3) A telemarketing company. And you probably have garnered most of your "business" and "budgeting" knowledge from self-improvement/motivational books sold near the registers at borders. Who says "You have obviously never been in any kind of management / budget situation"? Someone who does not have much of an education in management or accounting. I am pretty sure that MBA programs do not promote the term "budgeting". If I have to explain why you probably wouldn't get it. You then continue by writing, "Over paying for a slightly better than average WR is not how you win a SB." Well this assumes both that Branch is "a slightly better than average WR" and that his new contract will be over his real value. Well I think it could very easily be argued that Branch is an above average WR. He WAS the MVP of the Super Bowl for Christ's sake and here is a quote from wikipedia, " In addition to his 11 catch, 133-yard performance in Super Bowl XXXIX, he also caught 10 passes for 143 yards and a touchdown in Super Bowl XXXVIII. His 21 receptions in those 2 games is an NFL record for reception in consecutive Super Bowls and the third highest total of career Super Bowl receptions by a single player. Only Jerry Rice and Andre Reed, who each played in 4 Super Bowls, recorded more." Probably a more than "slightly better than average." I believe that the fact that "Branch averaged 700 yards and 3.5 TDs over his four year career." is due more to the Pat's O than to Branch's skills or ability to produce. If we return to your assumption that his contract will be higher than Branch's value then don't we really need to judge that in hind sight. "Do you think he deserves Harrison money?" No, but he may out produce Marvin, in which case he wold deserve more than Harrison. Obviously, the Pats would never give him that kind of money nor would any other team. Now "Calling a good business decision cheapness shows your knowledge of the business world is as lacking as your knowledge of WR talent." Okay, first off you do not call a business decision "cheapness" but rather cheap. Your knowledge of grammar is as lacking as your knowledge of WR talent. Secondly, do you really expect us to assume you are some business mogul who spends his time on fantasy football message boards? Because I don't believe that. I believe you are in your early 20's. You probably live in a small apartment which you rent and drive a leased accord. You go out on the weekend and talk about how you are going to "ball" and then lose motivation and confidence as the week goes by and your customers get upset at you daily for failing to do your job. You then vent on the teenagers under your "management" but still do not feel better about yourself. So you go on fftoday.com, adopt a new identity "Phurfur" and try to make people feel small like you. Unfortunately, your compadre Albert Einstein is here to explain to you the theory of relativity. While you may think you are intelligent relative to others, you are in fact relatively stupid. Wow. I feel better. Thanksthanks Phurfur thatthat. PS I refuse to spend anytime editing this post so I am assuming I left myself open for a counter spelling/grammar angle of attack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yippie Skippy 0 Posted August 27, 2006 Your have obviously never been in any kind of management / budget situation. Over paying for a slightly better than average WR is not how you win a SB. Branch averaged 700 yards and 3.5 TDs over his four year career. Do you think he deserves Harrison money? Calling a good business decision cheapness shows your knowledge of the business world is as lacking as your knowledge of WR talent. You obvioulsy have always been a sh!t ass. Step up with a fact if you are going to insult me. You have no idea how many people I manage and the budget I adhere to in real life. I never mentioned Harrison dumb fock. Not once. Most managers who let their #2 guy leave the company do so with the intent on keeping their #1 guy at ANY position in business. Lets look at the WRs on teams in the conference championship last season. HARRISON, Ward, D JAX, S Smith...hmm, they seem to me to be slightly better than average WRs. Cheapness is not always a good business decision fool. Teams that have won it all without a decent WR are the exceptions to the rule. The Patriots are not good enough in other areas to compensate for the crappy Wrs left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted August 27, 2006 You obvioulsy have always been a sh!t ass. Step up with a fact if you are going to insult me. You have no idea how many people I manage and the budget I adhere to in real life. I never mentioned Harrison dumb fock. Not once. Most managers who let their #2 guy leave the company do so with the intent on keeping their #1 guy at ANY position in business. Lets look at the WRs on teams in the conference championship last season. HARRISON, Ward, D JAX, S Smith...hmm, they seem to me to be slightly better than average WRs. Cheapness is not always a good business decision fool. Teams that have won it all without a decent WR are the exceptions to the rule. The Patriots are not good enough in other areas to compensate for the crappy Wrs left. Just as I though, you don't have a clue. When your #1 guy is in reality a #2 guy you don't pay him #1 money. My whole point is Branch is not the good or that dependable. I listed his stats in my original post. You do the math. No way Branch compares with HARRISON, Ward, D JAX, S Smith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creepin'Camel-Toe 0 Posted August 27, 2006 I didn't think he was healthy until the playoffs? Maybe Branch isn't that good. In any case, Caldell seems like the best receiving option in that offense after Watson. How many TEs can you use? Branch was the SuperBowl MVP... Right? It's looking in Preseason like WATSON is his #1... For Now. Clayton from ESPN....Ever see him in HD? Bbbbrrrrrrr...FUGLY!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted August 27, 2006 Branch was the SuperBowl MVP... Right? Desmond Howard and Doug Williams were also Super Bowl MVPs and then they disappeared. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rozniarek 0 Posted August 27, 2006 Branch is not a me-first player.His desire for a new contract is warranted; the money he's looking for is not. But you are correct. NE would likely want at least a 2nd rounder for Branch (where he was drafted) and most clubs won't give that up. Belichick was an economics major in college. He's gonna' let the market show Deion just how good NE's offer was. If he's not a me first player why is he asking for more money when he has a year on his contract.If he waits until his contract is up he will get respect and if he has a big year may even get a bigger contract Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtuna 0 Posted August 27, 2006 Belichick is an egotistical idiot. The only thing that's going to show up Deion is the timing, when most teams have spent their cap. New England on the other hand, is sitting with what...13 mil this year. As usual ignorant and misinformed. They are actually about $6 million under the cap, since Seymour has a Bonus that kicks in on Sept 1 for over $6 million alone. The other $6 million was being reserved for working out a deal with Branch and perhaps adding a veteran in-season. Belichick may be egotistical, as any NFL coach is, but an "idiot" would be a wild overstatement and certainly "idiotic" itself Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yippie Skippy 0 Posted August 27, 2006 Just as I though, you don't have a clue. When your #1 guy is in reality a #2 guy you don't pay him #1 money. My whole point is Branch is not the good or that dependable. I listed his stats in my original post. You do the math. No way Branch compares with HARRISON, Ward, D JAX, S Smith. Just as I though, Phurfur is not the good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boston 0 Posted August 27, 2006 As usual ignorant and misinformed. They are actually about $6 million under the cap, since Seymour has a Bonus that kicks in on Sept 1 for over $6 million alone. The other $6 million was being reserved for working out a deal with Branch and perhaps adding a veteran in-season. Belichick may be egotistical, as any NFL coach is, but an "idiot" would be a wild overstatement and certainly "idiotic" itself Tuna-The Pats are currently 12 mil under the cap. Are you sure that Seymour's bonus is not already factored into that figure. If it's not than a lot of questions I have are answered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted August 27, 2006 Tuna-The Pats are currently 12 mil under the cap. Are you sure that Seymour's bonus is not already factored into that figure. If it's not than a lot of questions I have are answered. It doesn't matter how much they are under the cap this is about not overpaying a WR just because his agent thinks he is worth it. Not overpaying is how you get under the cap in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boston 0 Posted August 27, 2006 It doesn't matter how much they are under the cap this is about not overpaying a WR just because his agent thinks he is worth it. Not overpaying is how you get under the cap in the first place. My question to Tuna had absolutely nothing to do with Branch. I'm well aware why the Pats cap situation is very healthy. My question is what is the actual figure once Seymour's bonus hits the books. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted August 27, 2006 Losing your #1 and #2 WRs in the same year while letting 13mil go to waste is indeed stupid. Maybe not Bill, bu whomever made the call. I assume you are talking about Scott Pioli. The same guy who built a team that won 3 Super Bowl titles? Bill Belicheck and Scott Pioli are the last guys any one can call an idiot in the NFL. Don't get me wrong, I am a bit frustrated that they can't sign him. I want the Patriots to reach into their wallet a bit and pay Branch. But they can't over pay for a receiver that we are not sure would be a true #1 on any other team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites