Suns trade Kurt Thomas and two #1s to Sonics

[GeminiV 0]

One important thing to know about trade exceptions is that, like the mid-level or any other exception, it can't be combined with player salaries in a trade. So, no saying "I'll give you Shawn Marion and this $8 million trade exception for Kevin Garnett." In that sense, it's a little less flexible than having a player with an expiring contract (like Thomas), so I doubt the Suns did this trade to create the trade exception.

[Chronic Husker 86]

Good trade for both teams. I've been wondering what the Suns were going to do for a few months. It's been a rumor that they had to move Marion out of necessity for quite a while now. Thomas exercised his option for $8 million this year, which the Suns obviously didn't want. They would have been perfectly happy with him hitting the free agent market.

 

The thing that isn't mentioned in this thread (that I saw, at least) is that #1 picks are guaranteed contracts. If you draft a guy in the first round, you have to pay him and his salary goes against your cap number, regardless. 2nd round picks don't count against your cap number. Cut them and it won't hurt your team for three years. You know how many picks toward the end of the first round end up as productive NBA players? Not very focking many. Good teams with big contracts look at those picks as liabilities. If they could show up to the draft and tell Stern they don't even want their pick, they'd probably do it.

 

But a team like Seattle can use as many young players as they can get. If they have to eat a crap contract for a year, big deal. It's worth their potential growth in future years. They're not going to compete right now. But as the Spurs, Mavs, and Suns get older, they're preparing to be part of the next wave in the NBA (see the Bulls).

 

The NBA and NFL have completely different formulas to keep the success cycle in tact, but each work in their own way.

 

The way I look at it is this: Phoenix was going to have to trade Marion. They didn't have an option. But, they creatively found an option. They pretty much traded Kurt Thomas and two crap first rounders for Marion. Pretty damn good deal in my book.

[itsbigmoni 1]

I think that 2010 pick might be a pretty good one.

 

Another problem is that, while those picks are guaranteed, late first rounders don't make much money. From the 19th pick down, they make under a million dollars.

 

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1065

 

Click that link, hit CTRL + F and then enter rookie. Or you can just scroll down pretty far down the page.

 

If the 10th, 11th, and so on, rotation players are gonna be scrubs, why not take a chance on a few young guys who might develop into something. Tony Parker was a late pick. Gilbert Arenas was a 2nd rounder. I know it isn't all that common, but why not take a chance. Good players can be had toward the end first.

[Chronic Husker 86]

Late 1st round picks are still guaranteed. Look at the previous posts. Phoenix's owner doesn't want to pay luxury tax. Why pay a guy $1 million when you have to pay $2 million and cut the guy in camp? Phoenix is on the absolute borderline. That's why they have to make a trade to give up one one their top bench players and two #1s for nothing.

 

That's the only point I'm trying to make here. They're happy with their team (rightfully so) and don't need to spend more money. When it's done, it's done (see again: the Bulls).

[itsbigmoni 1]

Instead of paying for veterans, like marcus banks, they could've saved a lot of money by having a late round pick. I don't know exactly how it worked out, but they could've had marcus williams (the Nets backup PG), but they chose to sign marcus banks. I think both randy foye and rojan rondo were options as well.

 

Most late first rounders usually last as long as their 3 yr contract. A player would have to be terrible for a team not wanting to pay a 3rd year player around a mil.

[GeminiV 0]

The way I look at it is this: Phoenix was going to have to trade Marion. They didn't have an option. But, they creatively found an option. They pretty much traded Kurt Thomas and two crap first rounders for Marion. Pretty damn good deal in my book.

 

That way I look at it is this: over the past two off-seasons, Phoenix has traded Kurt Thomas and four first-round picks for $22 million dollars. Not cap space or anything to improve the team. Just cash money.

 

You can't fault Sarver as a businessman. The Suns are still a very entertaining and marketable team and these moves make sense from a dollar-and-cents standpoint. But you can't pretend these moves are about fielding the best possible team, now or in the future.

[Scorpion 0]

That way I look at it is this: over the past two off-seasons, Phoenix has traded Kurt Thomas and four first-round picks for $22 million dollars. Not cap space or anything to improve the team. Just cash money.

 

You can't fault Sarver as a businessman. The Suns are still a very entertaining and marketable team and these moves make sense from a dollar-and-cents standpoint. But you can't pretend these moves are about fielding the best possible team, now or in the future.

 

agreed, but why trade so often in your own division is my question !!!!

 

they certainly are a worse team today than last week. I am sure they are hoping their first round draft choice can defend Duncan (good luck)...

 

Who knew the Cardinals would be the big spenders in the Valley!!

[GeminiV 0]

agreed, but why trade so often in your own division is my question !!!!

 

they certainly are a worse team today than last week. I am sure they are hoping their first round draft choice can defend Duncan (good luck)...

 

Who knew the Cardinals would be the big spenders in the Valley!!

 

At least they didn't make that trade with Golden State. With an $8 million expiring contract and two extra first-rounders to work with, KG to the Warriors would've been a done deal. ::sigh::

[GeminiV 0]

Oh, and saying that the Suns traded Thomas to keep Marion is BS. There was no way to trade Marion that would save money. No team can absorb his salary, so they'd only end up receiving a similar amount right back (like in a KG trade).

[Chronic Husker 86]

Oh, and saying that the Suns traded Thomas to keep Marion is BS. There was no way to trade Marion that would save money. No team can absorb his salary, so they'd only end up receiving a similar amount right back (like in a KG trade).

Are you just trying to provoke me? What is your goal here, cluttering this thread with your opinions?

 

Everything I've read this offseason has Phoenix trading Marion. Not once did I read an article on Phoenix dumping 1st round picks so they could keep Marion. The actual trade was the first I've seen of it.

 

If you have info that points otherwise, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, please stop the 20/20 hindsight posts.

[GeminiV 0]

Are you just trying to provoke me? What is your goal here, cluttering this thread with your opinions?

 

Everything I've read this offseason has Phoenix trading Marion. Not once did I read an article on Phoenix dumping 1st round picks so they could keep Marion. The actual trade was the first I've seen of it.

 

If you have info that points otherwise, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, please stop the 20/20 hindsight posts.

 

You said that trading Kurt Thomas allows the Suns to keep Marion.

 

Facts: Marion is making over $16 million this season. No team has that much cap room, nor a trade exception for that amount. That means that the Suns would have to take back a roughly equivalent (within 25%) amount of salary in any trade involving Marion.

 

Inference: Since the Suns could not save much money in a Marion trade, he was never going to be traded for financial reasons. Any Marion trade (and yes, I heard rumors about those, as well) would be made with the goal of improving the team. He is no more or less danger of that now than he was before.

 

Opinion: Your conclusion was BS. That was admittedly out of line and I apologize. We want more basketball discussion, not less.

[Chronic Husker 86]

So.....Phoenix was going to trade Marion to improve their team?

 

What was Phoenix going to get that would improve their team? Are you telling me they traded Kurt Thomas and two first round picks for one second round pick because it improved their team?

 

Did they trade Joe Johnson because it improved their team? WTF are you talking about?

[GeminiV 0]

So.....Phoenix was going to trade Marion to improve their team?

 

What was Phoenix going to get that would improve their team? Are you telling me they traded Kurt Thomas and two first round picks for one second round pick because it improved their team?

 

Did they trade Joe Johnson because it improved their team? WTF are you talking about?

 

Did you miss the entire section where I showed why the Suns wouldn't save much money in a Marion trade? And yes, trading Marion could improve their team, provided they get something in return (like Garnett). That's what usually happens in a trade and would, in fact, HAVE to happen in a Marion trade.

 

WTF does Joe Johnson have to do with it?

[Chronic Husker 86]

Did you miss the entire section where I showed why the Suns wouldn't save much money in a Marion trade? And yes, trading Marion could improve their team, provided they get something in return (like Garnett). That's what usually happens in a trade and would, in fact, HAVE to happen in a Marion trade.

 

WTF does Joe Johnson have to do with it?

Yeah, the Suns were going to get KG for Marion. All the Suns have been trying to do is keep their current team. They were trying not to dump Marion.

 

They already had to dump Joe Johnson.

 

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

 

Good luck with your cluttering, though.

[Strike 6,023]

Yeah, the Suns were going to get KG for Marion. All the Suns have been trying to do is keep their current team. They were trying not to dump Marion.

 

They already had to dump Joe Johnson.

 

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

 

Good luck with your cluttering, though.

 

You're saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, yet you called it a "good trade for both teams". The Suns essentially just kissed any chance of an NBA championship goodbye. If that's what you mean by a good trade then it may have been the best trade evah!!

[Chronic Husker 86]

You're saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, yet you called it a "good trade for both teams". The Suns essentially just kissed any chance of an NBA championship goodbye. If that's what you mean by a good trade then it may have been the best trade evah!!

The Suns kissed a championship goodbye by trading Kurt Thomas?

 

You think they should have dumped Marion, instead?

 

Seriously, if you were the Suns in the position they were in, what would you have done?

[Strike 6,023]

The Suns kissed a championship goodbye by trading Kurt Thomas?

 

You think they should have dumped Marion, instead?

 

Seriously, if you were the Suns in the position they were in, what would you have done?

 

Yes they kissed any chance, slim as it was, of a championship away with this move.

 

What would I have done? I would have not signed Grant Hill to play a position they're already saturated at when they're so damn thin in the power frontcourt. I don't care how cheap he was. They didn't really need him. I would have done something with Marcus Banks, who eats $4 million a year in salary and sits on the bench. They dumped Thomas because their owner doesn't want to pay the luxury tax. Most winning teams in their position take their chance at a championship, especially when the window is closing as it is with this team. Or manage the salary cap better. How is it that San Antonio has nowhere near the salary that Phoenix does yet they're better? They chose to dump salary instead of taking a shot at a championship. Clearly they aren't that concerned about winning a championship because it won't happen with their current frontcourt.

 

Now answer a question I've posed repeatedly. Who is going to guard Duncan now?

[Chronic Husker 86]

Their owner couldn't afford to keep the roster in tact. You have no clue what you're talking about either, Strike. They were going to dump Marion and found a way around it.

 

It's nice to live in utopia, but who was Phoenix going to get that could cover Duncan (especially seeing the position they were in)?

 

Long term cap management is one thing. San Antonio has done a great job of it. But don't ask idiotic questions about how one team can catch up in one offseason when they're already strapped.

 

Jeebus.

[Strike 6,023]

Their owner couldn't afford to keep the roster in tact. You have no clue what you're talking about either, Strike. They were going to dump Marion and found a way around it.

 

It's nice to live in utopia, but who was Phoenix going to get that could cover Duncan (especially seeing the position they were in)?

 

Long term cap management is one thing. San Antonio has done a great job of it. But don't ask idiotic questions about how one team can catch up in one offseason when they're already strapped.

 

Jeebus.

 

I guess you don't watch basketball. Why won't you answer my question? I answered yours. Or here's another one. Who covered Duncan the past two years when these two teams met?

[GeminiV 0]

Yeah, the Suns were going to get KG for Marion. All the Suns have been trying to do is keep their current team. They were trying not to dump Marion.

 

They already had to dump Joe Johnson.

 

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

 

Good luck with your cluttering, though.

 

lol.. yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about. All you've added to this thread are vague rumors about Marion being traded. Good luck with whatever it is you do.

[Chronic Husker 86]

http://nbaweblog.com/nba/suns/posts/9795.aspx

 

This is why I generally stay out of the NBA threads here. None of you clowns know what you're focking talking about.

[Strike 6,023]

http://nbaweblog.com/nba/suns/posts/9795.aspx

 

This is why I generally stay out of the NBA threads here. None of you clowns know what you're focking talking about.

 

And yet you still haven't answered a simple basic question. Who on the Suns is going to, or has in the past couple of seasons, guarded Tim Duncan? Those are two basic questions. Better yet, it's probably better that you stay out of the NBA threads if this is all you have to offer. See, it's supposed to be about discussion and logical reasoning. It's not supposed to be like this:

 

Strike: Bad trade. Here are a number of reasons why.....

CH: Excellent trade for both teams. this way the suns can keep Marion.

Strike: Really? THen who is going to guard DUncan.

CH: You don't know what you're talking about. The Suns get to keep Marion!!! What would you have done?

Strike: Here's what I would have done. (Strike throws out logical, well thought out reasoning as to what would have been smarter for the Suns). Now, answer my questions. Who guards Duncan now? Or, better yet, who guarded him in the past?

CH: You fool!!!! You don't know what you're talking about!!! They get to keep Marion!!!! Damn, this is why I don't post in NBA threads. Aren't you listening? They get to keep Marion!!!!

 

 

ROFLMAO. THis is your idea of smart NBA discussion? Yeah, ok.......

 

[Chronic Husker 86]

Jeebus, Strike. No wonder you got worked at the WSOP. The Suns didn't want Thomas to exercise his option. They viewed him a liability. Forgive me for trusting management of one of the most successful teams in the league over some dumbass that thinks teachers should be paid more while they sit on their fat asses all summer.......

 

Good Lord.

[Strike 6,023]

And CH, from your own link:

 

What does appear more likely is that Phoenix will trade Kurt Thomas, which would also be a mistake.

 

D’Antoni didn’t reply to questions about Thomas, who is slated to make about $8 million in the final year of his deal. The Suns could end up $9 million or so over the luxury-tax threshold if they don’t make a deal.

 

The Suns are really in a no-win situation unless they want to pay the luxury tax while attempting one last run at the championship. An optimal trade would have the Suns part ways with Marcus Banks, draft pick and another bench player for a decent defender that can run the floor.

 

I've bolded a couple of parts above for you, because your own link thinks MY plan, as outlined above, is better than trading Thomas. Thanks for posting a link supporting EXACTLY what I've been saying this whole thread. But yeah I have no clue what I'm talking about. ROFLMAO.

[Strike 6,023]

Jeebus, Strike. No wonder you got worked at the WSOP. The Suns didn't want Thomas to exercise his option. They viewed him a liability. Forgive me for trusting management of one of the most successful teams in the league over some dumbass that thinks teachers should be paid more while they sit on their fat asses all summer.......

 

Good Lord.

 

Hey, just answer me one question. Who is going to guard Duncan? If you know so much tell me because I have no clue and if you can enlighten me on that I might just give you the credit you believe you deserve. Yet you've ducked that question for two days now.........

[Chronic Husker 86]

And CH, from your own link:

I've bolded a couple of parts above for you, because your own link thinks MY plan, as outlined above, is better than trading Thomas. Thanks for posting a link supporting EXACTLY what I've been saying this whole thread. But yeah I have no clue what I'm talking about. ROFLMAO.

Uh, what part of Phoenix doesn't have enough money don't you understand? Of course it would be nice to keep Kurt Thomas and Marion. But Phoenix didn't have money to do both. If Steve Kerr wants to keep his job, he had to find a way to dump Thomas. Why do you think they had to give up two #1s in the trade?

 

I could give two shats about Phoenix. My Nuggets are in the same position. They are going to have to get rid of Camby or Nene because they're way over the cap after the AI trade. I'm sure your dumb ass will come on here and make some claim that the Nuggets are out of their mind for getting rid of a player that helped their team.

 

 

What should Phoenix have done? Try to keep the guy that was a starter on the focking Olympic team or keep the guy that comes off the bench? They couldn't do both.

 

 

You are focking retarded and understand NOTHING about finances when it comes to the NBA.

 

I bolded it for you.

[Strike 6,023]

Uh, what part of Phoenix doesn't have enough money don't you understand? Of course it would be nice to keep Kurt Thomas and Marion. But Phoenix didn't have money to do both. If Steve Kerr wants to keep his job, he had to find a way to dump Thomas. Why do you think they had to give up two #1s in the trade?

 

I could give two shats about Phoenix. My Nuggets are in the same position. They are going to have to get rid of Camby or Nene because they're way over the cap after the AI trade. I'm sure your dumb ass will come on here and make some claim that the Nuggets are out of their mind for getting rid of a player that helped their team.

 

 

What should Phoenix have done? Try to keep the guy that was a starter on the focking Olympic team or keep the guy that comes off the bench? They couldn't do both.

You are focking retarded and understand NOTHING about finances when it comes to the NBA.

 

I bolded it for you.

 

LOL AGAIN. You still haven't answered my question. I already answered yours, which you're now posting again. But hey keep up the personal attacks. That's two posts in a row where you've refused to answer a simple NBA question, which might help your position, and resorted to personal attacks. When all else fails personal attacks are the way to go. And why don't you respond to the fact that your OWN LINK says what I propose is better than what Phoenix did. If you think that link was worth posting why don't you respond to that? Yeah, you're doing well in this thread

[Chronic Husker 86]

Strike, you are focking retarded and incapable of listening to reason.

 

The link said "the optimal". Of course it would have been nice to dump Banks and "a bench player" and a pick and come up with enough money to keep both Marion and Thomas while getting a defender that can run the floor.

 

I'm sure teams were lining up to take on the Suns garbage players and garbage contracts.

 

This is why you don't know what you're talking about.

 

The fact is, the Suns had to get rid of Marion or Thomas. I thought they had to get rid of Marion. Had to. Steve Kerr (or someone in that organization) found a way around it.

 

As far as your point about covering Duncan goes.....nobody can cover Duncan. He's one of the best players in NBA history. Thomas may be better at it than any other Phoenix player but I'm not going to get rid of an Olympian so Kurt Thomas can ride my bench and attempt to cover Duncan 4 times a year.

 

The fact that you think so only convinces me more that you're a focking retard and have no clue what you're talking about.

[Strike 6,023]

Strike, you are focking retarded and incapable of listening to reason.

 

The link said "the optimal". Of course it would have been nice to dump Banks and "a bench player" and a pick and come up with enough money to keep both Marion and Thomas while getting a defender that can run the floor.

 

I'm sure teams were lining up to take on the Suns garbage players and garbage contracts.

 

This is why you don't know what you're talking about.

 

The fact is, the Suns had to get rid of Marion or Thomas. I thought they had to get rid of Marion. Had to. Steve Kerr (or someone in that organization) found a way around it.

 

As far as your point about covering Duncan goes.....nobody can cover Duncan. He's one of the best players in NBA history. Thomas may be better at it than any other Phoenix player but I'm not going to get rid of an Olympian so Kurt Thomas can ride my bench and attempt to cover Duncan 4 times a year.

 

The fact that you think so only convinces me more that you're a focking retard and have no clue what you're talking about.

 

LOL. Wow, after 2 days you finally answer a simple question, albeit with a lame ass answer. You're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. It wasn't an either/or issue. I never said they should keep Thomas and get rid of Marion. I think that's quite clear because I never mentioned getting rid of him when I discussed what they should have done. And, as has already been discussed, it's not like they'd be trading Marion for nothing like they did Thomas. If, and it's a big if, they had traded Marion they would have gotten quality players in return. But the NBA salary cap makes it very difficult to move someone like Marion. The fact that you think it was so likely is what proves you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

And don't think I don't know what you're saying. I do. The owner didn't want to pay the luxury tax. He could have, but has chosen not to which is his right as an owner. And I'm fine with that. But he didn't "HAVE" to trade either of those players. He chose to and as a result has worsened his team. Again, that's fine, but don't dress it up as a good trade because it's not.

[Chronic Husker 86]

Jesus focking Christ you are a retard. The Suns are not going to pay the luxury tax. The trade was the best trade they could make, seeing the circumstance.

 

I'm glad you're so willing to spend money that's not yours. That's why you're not a businessman, you're a grade-school teacher.

[Strike 6,023]

Jesus focking Christ you are a retard. The Suns are not going to pay the luxury tax. The trade was the best trade they could make, seeing the circumstance.

 

I'm glad you're so willing to spend money that's not yours. That's why you're not a businessman, you're a grade-school teacher.

 

So the Suns aren't paying the luxury tax? Wanna put some money on that?

[Chronic Husker 86]

So the Suns aren't paying the luxury tax? Wanna put some money on that?

What are they paying now relative to what they were paying with Thomas? I'm done talking to you. You grasp at straws trying to make irrelevant points.

 

You don't understand finances, you are completely willing to spend money that's not yours, and you don't accept the fact that someone on the Olympic team may be a bit more valuable than a guy that rides the bench.

 

I really don't see a need to continue this.

[edjr 6,898]

NBA?

[Strike 6,023]

What are they paying now relative to what they were paying with Thomas? I'm done talking to you. You grasp at straws trying to make irrelevant points.

 

You don't understand finances, you are completely willing to spend money that's not yours, and you don't accept the fact that someone on the Olympic team may be a bit more valuable than a guy that rides the bench.

 

I really don't see a need to continue this.

 

Ooh, backtracking again when caught in a lie. What a surprise.....LOL. No, you let things like facts and logic interfere with your tunnelvision. The Suns had plenty of opportunities to not screw themselves with the cap, and ways to minimize it's impact short of worsening the team. You ignore these facts when brought to your attention to go back to this:

 

Strike: Bad trade. Here are a number of reasons why.....

CH: Excellent trade for both teams. this way the suns can keep Marion.

Strike: Really? THen who is going to guard DUncan.

CH: You don't know what you're talking about. The Suns get to keep Marion!!! What would you have done?

Strike: Here's what I would have done. (Strike throws out logical, well thought out reasoning as to what would have been smarter for the Suns). Now, answer my questions. Who guards Duncan now? Or, better yet, who guarded him in the past?

CH: You fool!!!! You don't know what you're talking about!!! They get to keep Marion!!!! Damn, this is why I don't post in NBA threads. Aren't you listening? They get to keep Marion!!!!

 

 

So yeah it's probably better not to continue this and that you don't post in NBA threads. You'll just get worked like Muhammad in an illegal immigration thread.

 

 

Oh, and Edjr I've said it before and I'll say it again - The only reason you don't like the NBA is because you have to watch the Celtics

[GeminiV 0]

http://nbaweblog.com/nba/suns/posts/9795.aspx

 

This is why I generally stay out of the NBA threads here. None of you clowns know what you're focking talking about.

 

The first post: a rumored KG trade, an idea that you've already mocked and that would most likely add to the Suns payroll.

 

The second post: a rumored Marion-Jamison trade, which would save the Suns roughly $150,000.

 

The third post: a quote from D'Antoni saying that Marion would NOT be traded.

 

Yeah, sounds like the Suns were really serious about moving Marion to save some dough this season.

[RicemanX 20]

The warriors could use a player like Marion.

AND They have that salary exception thing from the JRich trade

[KSB2424 3,173]

Looks like the Suns are trying to sign either PJ Brown, Brian Skinner, Mike Sweetney, or Melvin Ely for half of what Kurt Thomas was gonna make to bolster the front line depth.

 

And why does Strike seem to think that the Suns having Kurt Thomas on their team is the answer to stopping Tim Duncan anyway. This isn't the Kurt of 5 years ago. He has declined faster than Gary Payton for crying out loud.

 

And let us not forget that the Suns first rounder in 08' was expendable since they owned Atlanta's first rounder next year (which will prolly be a lotto pick) Not to mention the Suns also recieved Seattle's 8 million dollar trade exception in the deal. All while saving a few million extra in lux tax. :woot:

 

Steve Kerr for Prez!