JT 137 Posted September 9, 2007 Right, but my whole point (largely ignored as usual because people like to spout opinion and don't like facts that contradict that) is that polls and voting and rankings are about perception. What really matters is RESULTS. By far the most meaningful results are the bowl games. While the SEC consistently outclasses the big ten in perceived speed and rankings, somehow they don't when it comes to bowl games. Odd eh? The counter now is Florida versus OSU, but that is one game. Look at the two conferences over time. They play a LOT of bowl games and the SEC team is almost always a higher seed than the Big Ten team (in-conference standings - ie SEC #2 often plays Big Ten #3 or even #4). Even with that, as of last year the Big Ten was ahead of the SEC in head to head bowls over a ten year span. That may have changed but even if so it's just about 0.500 either way. Yet when you listen to prognasticators and see AP rankings and blindly accept the speed myth despite evidence to the contrary at the NFL combine, that seems entirely impossible. Bowl games are a little better than the polls...they do actually involve teams playing...but still virtually worthless in determining the strength of one conference vs another. In fact, with the flux that is a collegiate programs roster, there is no means of measuring it with any degree of accuracy. There's one bowl game that matters each year. All the rest are exhibitions. I'm not saying teams don't try, or take them seriously, but often the contestants in the matchup between 6-6 teams in mid-December have much more invested in their game than those playing on New Years Day and later. The 'strongest conference' argument is simply a tool for homers to tout their favorites. Figures lie, and liars figure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wizbang 10 Posted September 9, 2007 Bowl games are a little better than the polls...they do actually involve teams playing...but still virtually worthless in determining the strength of one conference vs another. In fact, with the flux that is a collegiate programs roster, there is no means of measuring it with any degree of accuracy. There's one bowl game that matters each year. All the rest are exhibitions. I'm not saying teams don't try, or take them seriously, but often the contestants in the matchup between 6-6 teams in mid-December have much more invested in their game than those playing on New Years Day and later. The 'strongest conference' argument is simply a tool for homers to tout their favorites. Figures lie, and liars figure. Your logic makes no sense. Each top conference will send 5-7 teams to bowl games. These are the best teams in their respective conferences. They play the best teams in other conferences. Head to head. I agree that they have no bearing on who is better THIS season (because we still don't know) but there are enough games to provide a sound historical base. I also think you have completely missed the point wrt conference perception. It most certainly matters because unfortunately the polls DO matter. They determine who plays who for that one most important game. Sure, the system is a complete joke, thus making the national championship game a complete joke by definition. But perception IS god in that crapbag system and it would be nice if occassionally the pollsters at least took a look as historical trends to determine who they are likely overvaluing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,455 Posted September 9, 2007 wisconsin blows. thier #5 ranking is based on last years season in the Crap 10. the same idiots that thought auburn, bosie state, Michigan, FSU.... were top 25 think they are #5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMoney 0 Posted September 9, 2007 That's the point I was making. We hear the same thing every year, and this year will be no different. In fact, it will be worse. Because Michigan apparently sucks and Ohio State won't be all that great. Which means Wisconsin and Penn State might be the two best teams in the league. Which is completely unsexy. As soon as the press gets ahold of it, all we'll hear is how 'down' the Big Ten is. Then Wisconin will draw someone from a 'name' conference in the bowl game and immediately be dismissed. Happnes every year. and the ONLY reason that the badgers werent in a BCS bowl was because of a gay rule saying that 3 teams from a conference couldnt be in it.... they didnt whine like michigan or notre dame wouldve..they just shut up and beat arkansas.... the badgers havent lost to ohio state since 2003... im still not sure why they are being grouped in with michigan....guilty by association?.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavy-set 39 Posted September 9, 2007 and the ONLY reason that the badgers werent in a BCS bowl was because of a gay rule saying that 3 teams from a conference couldnt be in it.... they didnt whine like michigan or notre dame wouldve..they just shut up and beat arkansas.... the badgers havent lost to ohio state since 2003... im still not sure why they are being grouped in with michigan....guilty by association?.. ohio state sucked last year too. they beat the Crap 10s brains out then got smoked vs. a real team Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Middawg 0 Posted September 10, 2007 Watch out for the Hoosiers.......that offense is going to score all year long....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMoney 0 Posted September 10, 2007 ohio state sucked last year too. they beat the Crap 10s brains out then got smoked vs. a real team OSU wouldnt have been in that game had they had to face wisc.... and the badgers wouldve beaten florida.... im still lost as to why the badgers are grouped in with michigan....they are 2-0... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavy-set 39 Posted September 10, 2007 OSU wouldnt have been in that game had they had to face wisc....and the badgers wouldve beaten florida.... im still lost as to why the badgers are grouped in with michigan....they are 2-0... wisc would of lost 95-0, as they sucked worse than MIch and OSU. also, wisc is lumped with MIch, becasue they suck and they play in the Suck 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted September 10, 2007 Your logic makes no sense. Each top conference will send 5-7 teams to bowl games. These are the best teams in their respective conferences. They play the best teams in other conferences. Head to head. I agree that they have no bearing on who is better THIS season (because we still don't know) but there are enough games to provide a sound historical base. I also think you have completely missed the point wrt conference perception. It most certainly matters because unfortunately the polls DO matter. They determine who plays who for that one most important game. Sure, the system is a complete joke, thus making the national championship game a complete joke by definition. But perception IS god in that crapbag system and it would be nice if occassionally the pollsters at least took a look as historical trends to determine who they are likely overvaluing. Problem is, despite your professed interest in sticking with the facts and eliminating perception, you make statements like: "Big East - Honestly. Doesn't really belong in the conversation and shouldn't get an automatic BCS bid. A truly terrible conference that doesn't get dogged enough because they consistently pull the weakest BCS opponent." So, either bowl performance matters or it doesn't. Which is it? As for the validity of 'historical trends' to determine who is being under/over valued, you answered that yourself. This year has nothing to do with last year, which has nothing to do with the year before that...so what do we possibly gain from analyzing past seasons? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 10, 2007 wisconsin blows. thier #5 ranking is based on last years season in the Crap 10. the same idiots that thought auburn, bosie state, Michigan, FSU.... were top 25 think they are #5. The last year's season of going 12-1, and not really losing anything? A year they were unranked to start the year? They are #5 based on the fact that they have a solid core returning. They may move down because of the UNLV game, no biggie. Does not matter where they are ranked to me as long as they keep winning up until they play the bigger 3 of PSU, OSU, and even Michigan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 10, 2007 ohio state sucked last year too. they beat the Crap 10s brains out then got smoked vs. a real team Texas anyone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillybear 364 Posted September 10, 2007 Penn St is a threat to go undefeated and is a solid top 10 team this year. Wisconsin, I questions some things about them, but will have a very nice season anyway. The rest of the Big Ten....meh. But they are not overrated this year, since no one, except the jackasses that vote in the polls, thought they would be a strong conference this year. Also, on a side note, despite their struggles this week, Hawaii will run the table and be this year's Boise St. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 10, 2007 Penn St is a threat to go undefeated and is a solid top 10 team this year. Wisconsin, I questions some things about them, but will have a very nice season anyway. The rest of the Big Ten....meh. But they are not overrated this year, since no one, except the jackasses that vote in the polls, thought they would be a strong conference this year. Also, on a side note, despite their struggles this week, Hawaii will run the table and be this year's Boise St. PSU is looking like the best team so far. Wisconsin should be alright. I expect the defense to settle in and play solid. Donovan has looked pretty good so far and they seemed to get Hill rolling a bit more this past week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillybear 364 Posted September 10, 2007 Big East - Honestly. Doesn't really belong in the conversation and shouldn't get an automatic BCS bid. A truly terrible conference that doesn't get dogged enough because they consistently pull the weakest BCS opponent. This might the worst comment made about college football in the history of evah. Are you kidding? Look at last year: West Virginia, Rutgers, and Louisville weren't top 10 teams throughout the year? Didn't the Big East send 5 teams to bowl games (West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, Cincinnati) and almost a 6th (Pitt). Already this year, South Florida went on the road to beat Auburn, and Cincinnati blew out Oregon St. Why doesn't the Big East not deserve a BCS bowl bid. They were simply the BEST CONFERENCE last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 10, 2007 This might the worst comment made about college football in the history of evah. Are you kidding? West Virginia, Rutgers, and Louisville weren't top 10 teams throughout the year? Didn't the Big East send 5 teams to bowl games (West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, Cincinnati) and almost a 6th (Pitt). Already this year, South Florida went on the road to beat Auburn, and Cincinnati blew out Oregon St. Why doesn't the Big East not deserve a bowl bid. They were simply the BEST CONFERENCE last year. Please...don't say they were the best conference last year. WVU, Rutgers, and Louisville all had nice years last season...but who was their competition? Can you name a top team either of them played? And Louisville got their BCS Bowl win against yippee...Wake Forest. Nice that their lower to middle teams got big wins and played some tougher teams. Call me when WVU or Louisville or Rutgers have a strong out of conference win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavy-set 39 Posted September 10, 2007 Texas anyone? that was the exception, not the rule Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillybear 364 Posted September 10, 2007 Please...don't say they were the best conference last year. WVU, Rutgers, and Louisville all had nice years last season...but who was their competition? Can you name a top team either of them played? And Louisville got their BCS Bowl win against yippee...Wake Forest. Nice that their lower to middle teams got big wins and played some tougher teams. Call me when WVU or Louisville or Rutgers have a strong out of conference win. Top to bottom, the Big East was the best conference last year. I remember that I argued that point on the Main Bored quite a bit during the bowl season. You may disagree with my assessment, but they are just as deserving as any other BCS conference for a bid. Personally, I hate the BCS, because it works against teams that are very talented from other conferences. The only exceptions have been Utah and Boise St, and both won their games. The system sucks. I guess that I've gone on a tangent. But the Big East is as good as any other BCS conference over the last few years, including this year. They are underrated, if anything. Also, Louisville went 8-1 vs bowl teams last year, WV went 5-1, Rutgers went 6-2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 10, 2007 Top to bottom, the Big East was the best conference last year. I remember that I argued that point on the Main Bored quite a bit during the bowl season. You may disagree with my assessment, but they are just as deserving as any other BCS conference for a bid. Personally, I hate the BCS, because it works against teams that are very talented from other conferences. The only exceptions have been Utah and Boise St, and both won their games. The system sucks. I guess that I've gone on a tangent. But the Big East is as good as any other BCS conference over the last few years, including this year. They are underrated, if anything. Also, Louisville went 8-1 vs bowl teams last year, WV went 5-1, Rutgers went 6-2. I disagree and the SEC was top to bottom better than the Big East last year. (as much as I hate that). Who were the 8 wins against? Their 5 weak conference games? Again, what were their great out of conference wins? All 3 of those teams played pretty weak-ass schedules last season. And are doing the same this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted September 10, 2007 This might the worst comment made about college football in the history of evah. Are you kidding? Look at last year: West Virginia, Rutgers, and Louisville weren't top 10 teams throughout the year? Didn't the Big East send 5 teams to bowl games (West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, Cincinnati) and almost a 6th (Pitt). Already this year, South Florida went on the road to beat Auburn, and Cincinnati blew out Oregon St. Why doesn't the Big East not deserve a BCS bowl bid. They were simply the BEST CONFERENCE last year. A lost cause, my friend. We tried to show them the way last year with the MWC and Big East, but they refused to listen. The same people that gripe about the polls and BCS being unfairly biased, tilted to one region of the country, and based on perception instead of facts...choose to base their perception on the bashing of the Big East and mid-majors that took place, perhaps fairly, a couple years ago, parroting what the tv talking heads said so often that they mistakenly believe it to be true. It's exactly the mind set that has college football mired in the same morass every season: no more than one or two little guys with even the faintest of chances of crashing the party, big boys fattening up their resume' vs paid patsies, power conference teams starting out the season ranked so high that all they have to do is tread water to get the big payday. If you don't believe that either Rutgers or Louisville would have put up more of a fight vs Florida than Ohio State did, you either don't watch enough or don't know what you're seeing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted September 10, 2007 If you don't believe that either Rutgers or Louisville would have put up more of a fight vs Florida than Ohio State did, you either don't watch enough or don't know what you're seeing. Seriously? Do you think those 2 teams were on par with OSU? Or that they would have done more? Now...are you going to take away those team's biggest play maker early in the game too? Still waiting for someone to post a quality non-conference win by Louisville, Rutgers, or WVU during the season last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
