Watch 20/20 right now on ABC

[BLS 314]

Interesting show about Health Care and insurance companies.

[p.man 7]

I flipped over for a second. They cancelled that guy's policy, and now he has over 200k in med bills.

[BLS 314]

This show is a classic example why Government run Health Care would be disastrous.

 

For one, people would go see a doctor for every little thing, thus the overload in Canada.

When you don't have to pay for something, why worry about the costs?

 

Anybody who tells you that profit based health care doesn't provide the best service in the world is dead wrong.

Free Markets always induce competition and innovation.

[Me_2006 14]

This show is a classic example why Government run Health Care would be disastrous.

 

For one, people would go see a doctor for every little thing, thus the overload in Canada.

When you don't have to pay for something, why worry about the costs?

 

Anybody who tells you that profit based health care doesn't provide the best service in the world is dead wrong.

Free Markets always induce competition and innovation.

Suck it Marx!

[BLS 314]

Suck it Marx!

 

 

I think John Stossel is nailing it right now.

If there's no incentive to innovate because of no gain involved, the quality will drop.

[Me_2006 14]

I think John Stossel is nailing it right now.

If there's no incentive to innovate because of no gain involved, the quality will drop.

Plus, why the hell would you go to school for all those years, do all that work, and have all that responsibility of being a doctor or something when the government was just going to redistribute your wealth to those who never bothered to do anything? This country already does it badly enough, any further and we'd have to riot.

[p.man 7]

I think John Stossel is nailing it right now.

If there's no incentive to innovate because of no gain involved, the quality will drop.

 

Makes sense to me. It sounded good when M.Moore said that the people in Canada had free health care. But he didn't tell us that they had to wait 6 months to see a Dr. How about that one town picking a persons name out of a box once a week. You're the lucky winner! You get to be a patient of Dr so and so. Fock that.

[BLS 314]

Makes sense to me. It sounded good when M.Moore said that the people in Canada had free health care. But he didn't tell us that they had to wait 6 months to see a Dr. How about that one town picking a persons name out of a box once a week. Your the lucky winner! You get to be a patient of Dr so and so. Fock that.

 

Agreed! It's ridiculous. You're the lucky person who gets to see a DR this week.

Yeah, let's adopt that system.

[itsbigmoni 1]

I think what a lot of people want, me included, is some stripped down basic version which is free and have the current system in place. Just because government provides healthcare, it doesn't mean health companies can't continue to offer their services. If someone doesn't want to wait 6 months to see a Dr., then they can pay for health care.

 

At the very least, kids should have some sort of free healthcare until they turn 18. Its not their fault they were born into a poor family. Why should the 5 yr old who has no control over his health situation have to suffer because of his parents.

 

Government health care isn't the bridge to communism so all of you kids need to calm down. I would continue to pay $100 a month for health insurance if i had to wait 6 months to see a Dr. under the governments health care system. I don't think the current system is perfect, or anywhere near it, but in the long run i do see savings.

[BLS 314]

I think what a lot of people want, me included, is some stripped down basic version which is free and have the current system in place. Just because government provides healthcare, it doesn't mean health companies can't continue to offer their services. If someone doesn't want to wait 6 months to see a Dr., then they can pay for health care.

 

At the very least, kids should have some sort of free healthcare until they turn 18. Its not their fault they were born into a poor family. Why should the 5 yr old who has no control over his health situation have to suffer because of his parents.

 

Government health care isn't the bridge to communism so all of you kids need to calm down. I would continue to pay $100 a month for health insurance if i had to wait 6 months to see a Dr. under the governments health care system. I don't think the current system is perfect, or anywhere near it, but in the long run i do see savings.

 

NOTHING is free.

 

Let's start there.

[DanXIII 8]

This show is a classic example why Government run Health Care would be disastrous.

 

For one, people would go see a doctor for every little thing, thus the overload in Canada.

When you don't have to pay for something, why worry about the costs?

 

Anybody who tells you that profit based health care doesn't provide the best service in the world is dead wrong.

Free Markets always induce competition and innovation.

 

The failure in your logic here is that it has to be either:

 

1) Totally free

 

or

 

2) The status quo

 

It doesn't. Nobody wants "government run health care." What we want is "government subsidized health INSURANCE" with reasonable limitations. It's ridiculous that someone who needs medical care can't get access to it because his employer doesn't offer insurance coverage. It is equally ridiculous for someone to have to focking declare bankruptcy because of one overnight stay in the hospital.

 

And, wow, that right-wing douchbag John Stossel (who I'm sure has excellent health insurance) doesn't like the idea. How surprising.

[BLS 314]

The failure in your logic here is that it has to be either:

 

1) Totally free

 

or

 

2) The status quo

 

It doesn't. Nobody wants "government run health care." What we want is "government subsidized health INSURANCE" with reasonable limitations. It's ridiculous that someone who needs medical care can't get access to it because his employer doesn't offer insurance coverage. It is equally ridiculous for someone to have to focking declare bankruptcy because of one overnight stay in the hospital.

 

And, wow, that right-wing douchbag John Stossel (who I'm sure has excellent health insurance) doesn't like the idea. How surprising.

 

Quite the leap between the 'status quo' and 'free' don't you think?

 

I agree....fully, that the current methodology is outrageously expensive.

My dad is the owner of the company I work for, and his PERSONAL insurance is over $900 a month.

 

At 56...and in good health, that's ridiculous.

You're painting a picture that's not real.

It is ridiculous to think someone should lose their home to have health care, etc.

 

Health Care is not a right. Plain and simple.

We, as a society are NOT entitled to anything.

[jerryskids 6,795]

The failure in your logic here is that it has to be either:

 

1) Totally free

 

or

 

2) The status quo

 

It doesn't. Nobody wants "government run health care." What we want is "government subsidized health INSURANCE" with reasonable limitations. It's ridiculous that someone who needs medical care can't get access to it because his employer doesn't offer insurance coverage. It is equally ridiculous for someone to have to focking declare bankruptcy because of one overnight stay in the hospital.

 

And, wow, that right-wing douchbag John Stossel (who I'm sure has excellent health insurance) doesn't like the idea. How surprising.

I agree about the bankruptcy. We should be like Canada, that person will get that stay in the hospital... in 6 months.

 

I could be convinced that some sort of gubment subsidization for CATASTOPHIC medical needs is a good thing. But for general medical needs, if you support that, you support what you saw about Canada yesterday, plain and simple. And if you watched that and you want THAT for your medical system, you are on drugs, pardon the pun.

 

I've said it before: the fundamental flaw of socialist policies is the belief that you can have your cake and eat it too. That incentives for personal responsibility (patients) and for financial gains (medical, insurance industry) can go away, yet care will improve.

 

BTW, Michael Moore looked like a total buffoon. My favorite quote of his: "Look, I've watched your show, I know how this goes." Translation: I know better than to get backed into an indefensible position on my loony proposals.

[VikesFan 1]

Not only are we not entitled to it, this government just cannot afford it. Has anyone looked at the balance sheets lately? We don't exactly have a surplus, but instead have a huge debt and budget deficits. Government health care or health insurance will not fix the problem, it will only serve to make things more expensive. I've worked in the pharmaceutical industry and have relatives who work in other medical fields. I could easily point out to you a number of reasons why healthcare is so expensive, and unfortunately, it has to do with three things: a lack of competition, medical insurance companies, government intervention. There are others as well, but those are by far the big three, and adding more government insurnace and government intervention will solve absolutely nothing.

 

I'd also add that good healthcare is not an entitlement. That idea is so unbelivably stupid, and I do not understand how it is that people buy into it so easily. No matter how you slice it, the rich will always get better healthcare than the poor. It has been that way since the creation of the universe, and it will continue to be that way until the world ends. There is no way to ensure equal heathcare for all, and there never will be. Pretending that there is or setting minimum standards for all will do nothing more than increase the prices for everything as it eliminates the need for competition. That, unfortunately, is a fact of life.

[jerryskids 6,795]

Also, if I heard correctly, private medical practice/clinics in Canada are technically illegal. I can't wrap my haid around this. If the gubment wants to provide health care for all, mkay... but why would it be illegal for somebody to set up a for-profit business for people who don't want to use the system?

 

I presume that the people who support this also oppose private schools?

[DanXIII 8]

I agree about the bankruptcy. We should be like Canada, that person will get that stay in the hospital... in 6 months.

 

 

 

I could be convinced that some sort of gubment subsidization for CATASTOPHIC medical needs is a good thing. But for general medical needs, if you support that, you support what you saw about Canada yesterday, plain and simple. And if you watched that and you want THAT for your medical system, you are on drugs, pardon the pun.

 

Yet another strawman argument: "It has to be OUR way, or Canada's way."

 

Incidentally, you can bash Canada's system all you want, but I know first hand that their system can, literally, mean life or death for some people. I have a close family member who (luckily) was able to go back there for a heart operation, without which she would be dead by now, and which she was unable to get here in the states because it wasn't "cost effective" to keep her alive.

 

It's all "socialism" until you're faced with it. I pray you never are, sincerely.

 

I've said it before: the fundamental flaw of socialist policies is the belief that you can have your cake and eat it too. That incentives for personal responsibility (patients) and for financial gains (medical, insurance industry) can go away, yet care will improve.

Really now? Because I can ASSURE you that that is the fundamental flaw with conservative policies, ie, you can spend as much as you want, cut taxes as much as you want, and simply ignore the red ink.

 

Do you have health insurance? Ever tried to live without it? Ever been forced to choose between medicine and food?

 

I realize you may or may not be an "I-got-mine-so-fock-you-and-everyone-else" conservative, but do you realize just how much the current system COSTS those who actually have health insurance annually? When someone has to file Chapter 11 bk because they had to go into the hospital for two days, who do you suppose pays for that?

 

"They just write it off." --Cosmo Kramer

[VikesFan 1]

Do you have health insurance? Ever tried to live without it? Ever been forced to choose between medicine and food?

 

I do have health insurance now. I have lived without it, but fortunately, I've never had to choose between medicine and food. I published something in a previous thread about this type of thing before and I'll briefly state this: I've been without insurance back when I was young and right out of college. Fortunately, I never got burned. When I took my latest job, I had to choose between an outrageous cobra insurance or the crappy benefits at my new contracting house (this was a contract in which I was later converted over to a full time employee). I did what most Americans could probably do but don't do. I purchased a high deductable-catastrophy only type plan. I can swing the $100 for a Dr. visit, and the nice thing about this plan was that it was a group so I did get a negotiated group rate. I had a very high deductable and would end up being responsible for something like the first $10k of any major claim. I can swing the Dr. payment, and 10k wouldn't set me back too far, but the plan kindly covered up to 3 million for both me and my family. This is what insurance was supposed to be, and I'd add that it cost a little over $200/month. Today, we use it for all medical needs, including standard visits and perscriptions. Ironically, if we only used it for what it was intended to be (i.e. insurnace against something bad), the prices of those basic services would be much, much lower because people would not go to the Dr. except in need. Doctor's offices would be emtpy, and they'd likely reduces their prices.

 

Insurance is supposed to protect you from the bankrupcy, but when people insist on getting everythign else with it, it will be expensive. Add to this that nothing then stops those people from going to the doctor's office... because it's free.... so they take and take and take and take... They end up in the ER for strep throat or call 911 over something that needs stiches... Nothing stops them b/c they don't see the costs to those things, so they contine, and in so doing, drive up costs for everyone else. The beaty for the doctors is that there is absolutely nothing that forces them to lower their prices, so they don't. Take a look at what happens to procedures that are not covered by insurance (such as Lasic, plastic surgery, etc)... they get cheaper... lots cheaper. Granted they will never be incredibly dirt cheap, but they suddenly become affordable for the average middle class person to use if they so choose.

 

No government insurance program will solve that problem... It will only contribute to it.

[make me mona 0]

I believe two things:

 

If healthcare was free, people would use it more.

 

If people used healthcare more, costs would go down.

 

Can you follow this? Here's what really happens. Those who can't afford health insurance don't go to the doctors. They wait. And wait. And wait. And what was a cold or strep throat, is now pneumonia, or scarlet fever, and they have to use the ER. Which is cheaper to take care of? The cold. However, you now have someone with a tougher, more expensive medical case to deal with, and they still can't afford it. So who pays for it? The rest of us. When they file bankruptcy, who pays for it? The rest of us.

 

The system is broke. We have an emergency system in place that is the most expensive system possible. If we instead took that money and practiced preventive care, everyone would be covered at less expense.

 

Stop thinking in political speak and try to figure out who gains by keeping the current system in place. Insurance companies, and the people they spend their lobbying dollars on.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I believe two things:

 

If healthcare was free, people would use it more.

 

If people used healthcare more, costs would go down.

 

I believe you are an idiot. Can you show me ONE example of when demand goes up, price goes down?

 

Also, ain't nuthin "free", Honey.

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

Returning control over health care to the individual is the key to true health care reform.

 

The Comprehensive Health Care Reform Act puts control of health care back into the hands of the individual through tax credits, tax deductions, Health Care Savings Accounts (HSA), and Flexible Savings Accounts. By giving individuals tax incentives to purchase their own health care, the Comprehensive Health Care Act will help more Americans obtain quality health insurance and health care. Specifically, the Comprehensive Health Care Act:

 

Provides all Americans with a tax credit for 100% of health care expenses. The tax credit is fully refundable against both income and payroll taxes.

Allows individuals to roll over unused amounts in cafeteria plans and Flexible Savings Accounts (FSA).

Makes every American eligible for a Health Savings Account (HSA), removes the requirement that individuals must obtain a high-deductible insurance policy to open an HSA; allows individuals to use their HSA to make premiums payments for high-deductible policy; and allows senior citizens to use their HSA to purchase Medigap policies.

Repeals the 7.5% threshold for the deduction of medical expenses, thus making all medical expenses tax deductible.

By providing a wide range of options, this bill allows individual Americans to choose the method of financing health care that best suits their individual needs. Increasing frustration with the current health care system is leading more and more Americans to embrace this approach to health care reform. For example, a poll by the respected Zogby firm showed that over 80% of Americans support providing all Americans with access to a Health Savings Account. I hope all my colleagues will join this effort to put individuals back in control of health care by cosponsoring the Comprehensive Health Care Reform Act.

 

--Ron Paul

[Mephisto 15]

I believe you are an idiot. Can you show me ONE example of when demand goes up, price goes down?

 

Also, ain't nuthin "free", Honey.

 

Healthcare. Thanks for playing.

[VikesFan 1]

I believe two things:

 

If healthcare was free, people would use it more.

 

If people used healthcare more, costs would go down.

 

Can you follow this? Here's what really happens. Those who can't afford health insurance don't go to the doctors. They wait. And wait. And wait. And what was a cold or strep throat, is now pneumonia, or scarlet fever, and they have to use the ER. Which is cheaper to take care of? The cold. However, you now have someone with a tougher, more expensive medical case to deal with, and they still can't afford it. So who pays for it? The rest of us. When they file bankruptcy, who pays for it? The rest of us.

 

The system is broke. We have an emergency system in place that is the most expensive system possible. If we instead took that money and practiced preventive care, everyone would be covered at less expense.

 

Stop thinking in political speak and try to figure out who gains by keeping the current system in place. Insurance companies, and the people they spend their lobbying dollars on.

 

 

No, no, and no.

 

Here is what really happens. People who have healthcare free use it freely thereby driving up the costs for those who do not have it free. The ones who have to pay full price for it do not go because it is too expensive, and then they show up when it is too late and too expensive to treat. Add to this that the barriers to entry are incredibly high, thereby keeping the supply of healthcare at a minimum. Increasing demand with stagnant supply leads to increased prices. Unfortunately, this is basic economics. You want cheap healtcare? Abolish insurance and switch everything over to cash-only with no financing. The price of healthcare would drop very quickly.

[Ron Paul for President 2008 0]

The people who can't afford health care are the people who don't have good jobs, the people who don't have good jobs are the people who did not try to further themselves, the people who did not try to further themselves are the lazy armpits of society who know the Govt will eventually take care of them, be it welfare, healthcare, housing, ect...

 

If the US Govt stop giving people incentives to be worthless maybe more people would start trying to be productive members of society.

 

Stop the free Govt Handouts, if you want something...work for it.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Healthcare. Thanks for playing.

 

link?

[Riddlen 1]

but football is on

[make me mona 0]

I believe you are an idiot. Can you show me ONE example of when demand goes up, price goes down?

 

Also, ain't nuthin "free", Honey.

 

"Demand" wouldn't go up per se, just WHEN they demand care, would change. People who don't have healthcare don't stress the system until it's critical, AND most expensive. If you don't understand this, please explain to me why HMO's were created.

[make me mona 0]

No, no, and no.

 

Here is what really happens. People who have healthcare free use it freely thereby driving up the costs for those who do not have it free. The ones who have to pay full price for it do not go because it is too expensive, and then they show up when it is too late and too expensive to treat. Add to this that the barriers to entry are incredibly high, thereby keeping the supply of healthcare at a minimum. Increasing demand with stagnant supply leads to increased prices. Unfortunately, this is basic economics. You want cheap healtcare? Abolish insurance and switch everything over to cash-only with no financing. The price of healthcare would drop very quickly.

 

Yes and no. You use a lot of words that mean nothing. However, cash only, you have a point. Healthcare is out of control for THIS reason. Doctors don't say what they charge, INSURANCE companies do! And guess how doctors and hospitals make up the difference? From the people that DON'T have health insurance.

[make me mona 0]

I believe you are an idiot. Can you show me ONE example of when demand goes up, price goes down?

 

Also, ain't nuthin "free", Honey.

 

Also you fuck1ng moron, um how about, LCD TV, DVR's, everything that is new, when the demand goes up, the price goes down. Assclown.

[jerryskids 6,795]

Yes and no. You use a lot of words that mean nothing. However, cash only, you have a point. Healthcare is out of control for THIS reason. Doctors don't say what they charge, INSURANCE companies do! And guess how doctors and hospitals make up the difference? From the people that DON'T have health insurance.

Please tell me you don't honestly believe this.

[Mephisto 15]

Please tell me you don't honestly believe this.

 

If my insurance company only pays my doctor, say... $30 for my doctor visit... how much do you think I would have to pay the doctor for my visit if I didn't have insurance?

[Toro 1]

Also you fuck1ng moron, um how about, LCD TV, DVR's, everything that is new, when the demand goes up, the price goes down. Assclown.

 

Actually, when demand goes up for those items, typically cost of the item goes down because more competitors enter the market and production costs are reduced based on increased volume of units sold.

 

Nice try though.

[make me mona 0]

Please tell me you don't honestly believe this.

 

How do you believe it works? Insurance companies tell doctors what they will pay for each procedure, take a look at your itemized bills, it's far less than what the doctors have asked for. Now, what happens when someone who doesn't have insurance goes to the same doctor. They have to pay the full ride right? Because there is no insurance company middle man saying this is how much we'll pay and that's that. Now, I know some of you like to believe that these people just won't pay it, they'll all file bankruptcy, but they won't. The majority will pay the full amount. Yes some will be caught off guard, but for the most part, we all pay our bills. The really expensive ER bills however, do get caught up in this system. Even people that DO have insurance get caught in this. I was one of those when my daughter was born. I owed 20% of her $100k NICU bill, and I worked for a freakin hospital, you would think we had great healthcare. But I was caught out of state, ie, out of network, during an emergency when I went into labor at 7 months. It took us 5 years to pay it off. The system is made for one purpose, profit for insurance companies. Until you can all see that, nothing will change.

[Toro 1]

If my insurance company only pays my doctor, say... $30 for my doctor visit... how much do you think I would have to pay the doctor for my visit if I didn't have insurance?

 

 

Insurance pays "typical and customary" charges, which is usually a little below the national average for the procedure. The doctor either set the price there or you pay the difference.

 

Let's say I go in with a broken pinkie. The typical and customary charge is 180 bucks. I pay my co-pay (20) and the insurance pays the rest (160). If I don't have insurance, I pay 180.

 

You think a doctor charges you more if you don't have insurance? That's called price gouging and it's illegal.

[make me mona 0]

Actually, when demand goes up for those items, typically cost of the item goes down because more competitors enter the market and production costs are reduced based on increased volume of units sold.

 

Nice try though.

 

Okay, so your theory works in a one man doctor town, what about the rest of us that have hundreds of choices in doctors? Doesn't that mean competition? Shouldn't prices go down according to your theory?

[Toro 1]

Okay, so your theory works in a one man doctor town, what about the rest of us that have hundreds of choices in doctors? Doesn't that mean competition? Shouldn't prices go down according to your theory?

 

It's not that simple. If one doctor can set a broken bone for less than the doctor down the street, then yes. But typically, they charge very similar amounts. Also, what happens when a particular doc doesn't take your insurance?

 

It's not quite apples and oranges, but it's definitely not the same thing as LCDs. Some economic factors are similar, but some are not as elastic.

[Mephisto 15]

Insurance pays "typical and customary" charges, which is usually a little below the national average for the procedure. The doctor either set the price there or you pay the difference.

 

Let's say I go in with a broken pinkie. The typical and customary charge is 180 bucks. I pay my co-pay (20) and the insurance pays the rest (160). If I don't have insurance, I pay 180.

 

You think a doctor charges you more if you don't have insurance? That's called price gouging and it's illegal.

 

Wow... where did you get that from? Why don't you go ask your doctor if the insurance company pays "a little below the national average" for a procedure.

 

Toro, you're full of sh!t. In your example, I guarantee that if the going rate were $180 and you didn't have insurance, you would pay $180. With insurance, you would pay your co-pay of $20 and the insurance company would pay something bizarre like... $59.

 

I could pull out my son's last hospital bills. Something like... $11,000. Without insurance, I would be billed... $11,000. With insurance, I paid $600 in co-pays and non-covered stuff, and the insurance company paid something in the neighborhood of $6,000 - $7,000.

[make me mona 0]

Insurance pays "typical and customary" charges, which is usually a little below the national average for the procedure. The doctor either set the price there or you pay the difference.

 

Let's say I go in with a broken pinkie. The typical and customary charge is 180 bucks. I pay my co-pay (20) and the insurance pays the rest (160). If I don't have insurance, I pay 180.

 

You think a doctor charges you more if you don't have insurance? That's called price gouging and it's illegal.

 

I never said the doctor charges the person without insurance more, however you are an idiot if you think you insurance company pays the full amount to the doctor. Ask him next time you are in. I guarantee your doctor is pressured to take LESS PAYMENT and encouraged to SEE MORE patients in an hour than he should to make up for the lower payment. Again, do some research on HMO's.

[Toro 1]

How do you believe it works? Insurance companies tell doctors what they will pay for each procedure, take a look at your itemized bills, it's far less than what the doctors have asked for. Now, what happens when someone who doesn't have insurance goes to the same doctor. They have to pay the full ride right? Because there is no insurance company middle man saying this is how much we'll pay and that's that. Now, I know some of you like to believe that these people just won't pay it, they'll all file bankruptcy, but they won't. The majority will pay the full amount. Yes some will be caught off guard, but for the most part, we all pay our bills. The really expensive ER bills however, do get caught up in this system. Even people that DO have insurance get caught in this. I was one of those when my daughter was born. I owed 20% of her $100k NICU bill, and I worked for a freakin hospital, you would think we had great healthcare. But I was caught out of state, ie, out of network, during an emergency when I went into labor at 7 months. It took us 5 years to pay it off. The system is made for one purpose, profit for insurance companies. Until you can all see that, nothing will change.

 

Hospitals charge based on overall operating costs. Just because it REALLY only costs them 200 bucks to set a broken bone, they charge you more to make up for tons of other factors such as lawsuits, insurance, and paying for operations and services provided to the indigent, illegals, and other operating costs they are forced to absorb.

 

Start lowering the hospitals overall costs and you'll see price drops.

[Toro 1]

I never said the doctor charges the person without insurance more, however you are an idiot if you think you insurance company pays the full amount to the doctor. Ask him next time you are in. I guarantee your doctor is pressured to take LESS PAYMENT and encouraged to SEE MORE patients in an hour than he should to make up for the lower payment. Again, do some research on HMO's.

 

The doctors I go to charge a certain amount and if the insurance pays less, then it comes out of my pocket. I don't know anything about HMO's. I've always had a PPO. I might suggest you switch.

[BLS 314]

Actually, when demand goes up for those items, typically cost of the item goes down because more competitors enter the market and production costs are reduced based on increased volume of units sold.

 

Nice try though.

 

 

You beat me to it Toro.

 

Mona/Meph, you guys both have very flawed concepts of demand/supply and it's effects on pricing.

 

The realization is that because some people see insurance as 'free' they go for every little thing.

They don't care about the cost because it's not coming out of their pockets.

Therefore the hospitals and clinics GOUGE the insurance companies. Tell me what your last dr. visit cost (overall...not what was covered just by insurance).

The fact is, those with health insurance get the bill, look for what they owe, and write the rest off and go 'whoo hoo!'.

Health care is NOT a right. And I sure as hell shouldn't have to pay for someone who lives a sh!t life, and has numerous health problems.

If I want to smoke, and drink too much, nobody should be liable to pay for it but me or my insurance, and my insurance premiums should reflect how I live.

 

Government intervention in just about everything is worthless because you can't please everyone.

Life's not fair. Get used to it.