Chiefs hire Todd Haley as HC

[cmh6476 757]

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/91873...-offensive-boss

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Did they interview a minority yet?

[cmh6476 757]

Did they interview a minority yet?

Derrick Thomas' mom

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Well, they aren't saying who, but supposedly they did.

 

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-152...-and-notes.html

 

Kansas City news and notes

 

February 5, 2009 8:33 PM

 

 

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

 

The head of the Fritz Pollard Alliance told the Associated Press that the Kansas City Chiefs have complied by the NFL's Rooney Rule and have indeed interviewed minority candidates.

There have been no reported interviews. The only news to come out of the Kansas City coaching search was that the team requested permission to interview Arizona offense coordinator Todd Haley.

[cmh6476 757]

Well, they aren't saying who, but supposedly they did.

 

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-152...-and-notes.html

wouldnt interviewing Herm to see if you want to retain him count?

[NewbieJr 540]

I think there's a rule that if you already have suffered through a horrible black coach, you don't have to interview anymore of them for five years.

[Melissa Stark 1]

NewbieJr Posted Today, 01:59 PM

I think there's a rule that if you already have suffered through a horrible black coach, you don't have to interview anymore of them for five years.

 

I guess Ray Rhodes and Denny green fall into this category also

[cmh6476 757]

they got their guy, twice now

[jerryskids 5,209]

It's a loss for the Cards but I'm happy for Haley. I believe that any successful organization needs to encourage career growth, even if that means moving, because in the long run it encourages the best and the brightest to work for you.

 

I can't believe I just said that about the Cards.

[cmh6476 757]

This very well could be the beginning of a long era in KC, such as that when Lamar Hunt hired Carl Peterson (an up-and-coming football mind) who in turn hired Schottenheimer, another young up-and-comer.

 

Clark Hunt is putting his identity to this team, with the hiring of Pioli and Haley. You can already sense the different mentality they are bringing with them, and it's a very exciting time to be a Chiefs fan.

[Tomahawk Chopper 0]

This very well could be the beginning of a long era in KC, such as that when Lamar Hunt hired Carl Peterson (an up-and-coming football mind) who in turn hired Carl Peterson, another young up-and-comer.

 

Clark Hunt is putting his identity to this team, with the hiring of Pioli and Haley. You can already sense the different mentality they are bringing with them, and it's a very exciting time to be a Chiefs fan.

 

I agree. Really, we couldn't get a whole lot worse. I'm excited. Every year I hear someone say, "next year, you wait and see"; but I've not heard that in several years now. If it wasn't one side of the ball deflating us, it was the other. Now, there's actually a bright future ahead. (I hope)

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

This very well could be the beginning of a long era in KC, such as that when Lamar Hunt hired Carl Peterson (an up-and-coming football mind) who in turn hired Schottenheimer, another young up-and-comer.

 

Clark Hunt is putting his identity to this team, with the hiring of Pioli and Haley. You can already sense the different mentality they are bringing with them, and it's a very exciting time to be a Chiefs fan.

Your eternal optimism is commendable. I am not sure that it will be rewarded.

 

Remember, you have had that same optimism with the Royals.

[The Shredder 0]

As Dynasty owner of Dwayne Bowe, I'm damn excited on this news. If Haley reshaped Larry Fitzgerald from a stud WR into a superstar STUD with each capital "S", "T", "U", and "D" then I cannot wait how he do on Dwayne Bowe.

[davidbostonisgood 2]

As Dynasty owner of Dwayne Bowe, I'm damn excited on this news. If Haley reshaped Larry Fitzgerald from a stud WR into a superstar STUD with each capital "S", "T", "U", and "D" then I cannot wait how he do on Dwayne Bowe.

ummm.... I'm pretty sure Haley didn't do much as far as shaping Fitzgerald into the receiver he is. Sorry.

[Inspiration 0]

ummm.... I'm pretty sure Haley didn't do much as far as shaping Fitzgerald into the receiver he is. Sorry.

Actually, he did. Last season Fitzgerald was a player who had only his leaping skills and his hands to rely on. He was a mediocre route-runner and had a tendency to simply fall down after a reception rather than look for yards after the catch. In the offseason, Haley constantly pushed Fitzgerald to work on both of those areas of his game. After the Cardinals' victory over the Eagles, Fitzgerald personally sought out Haley to thank him for "keeping his foot on his throat" in the past year.

[davidbostonisgood 2]

Actually, he did. Last season Fitzgerald was a player who had only his leaping skills and his hands to rely on. He was a mediocre route-runner and had a tendency to simply fall down after a reception rather than look for yards after the catch. In the offseason, Haley constantly pushed Fitzgerald to work on both of those areas of his game. After the Cardinals' victory over the Eagles, Fitzgerald personally sought out Haley to thank him for "keeping his foot on his throat" in the past year.

Oh yea?.....Well, I stayed at a Holliday Inn last night.

[Cuse9 128]

Todd Haley will soon find out how nice life was with Warner, Fitz, Boldin and Breaston. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he can do a quality job, but he's lacking massive fire power that he had in Zona.

 

As for this comment:

 

Actually, he did. Last season Fitzgerald was a player who had only his leaping skills and his hands to rely on. He was a mediocre route-runner and had a tendency to simply fall down after a reception rather than look for yards after the catch. In the offseason, Haley constantly pushed Fitzgerald to work on both of those areas of his game. After the Cardinals' victory over the Eagles, Fitzgerald personally sought out Haley to thank him for "keeping his foot on his throat" in the past year.

 

C'mon, where is the punch line?! So he was a great wr in the game due to his leaping ability and hands. That's it? If you are going to give praise to Haley you have to come up with better stuff than that. To say Fitz only had two skills makes you look a little rediculous. That's like saying Manning is only good because he has a quick release and can throw it far. You gotta bring it correct if you're going to bring it at all........

 

I think you are forgetting a few things.

 

Concentration. His eyes are always on the ball and he don't care about defenders or anything, he never loses his concentration

Strength. Fitz has incredible strength which helps him come down with anything while having defenders there to try and dislodge the bal.

Body Control/Positioning. In traffic, fade patterns, whatever, Fitz knows how to position himself to make the catch while going up for the pass.

Seperation. Due to his incredible quickness and strength, Fitz gets seperation better than any wr in the game.

Size. At 6'3 and 220 he is simply too big for most corners to cover.

Elusiveness. Quick slants have always been a strength of Fitz and it's his quickness and elusiveness that allows him to create big plays out of those slants.

Deceptive Speed. Larry may not boast world class speed, but he runs fast enough that Ike Taylor couldn't catch him! As Jerry Rice once said, "I may not be fast, but nobody can catch me!"

 

Fitz has always been a good route runner. Was there room to improve, sure, but just about every NFL wr can improve in that area. As for falling down after the catch...what? He would simply fall down?! I've never seen Fitz just fall down after making catches...helk, even tough catches. Where is your proof that he falls down.

[cmh6476 757]

Todd Haley will soon find out how nice life was with Warner, Fitz, Boldin and Breaston. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he can do a quality job, but he's lacking massive fire power that he had in Zona.

didn't the Pats go out and get about 9 free agents the year they first won the super bowl? The Chiefs have a ridiculous amount of money they can spend. There is a new mentality, to go out and get big, strong, smart football players, Pioli has a history of going after big Div 1 rookies in the draft. It won't be hard at all to turn this team around, especially with some of the young talent already on the roster.

[Inspiration 0]

As for this comment:

C'mon, where is the punch line?! So he was a great wr in the game due to his leaping ability and hands. That's it? If you are going to give praise to Haley you have to come up with better stuff than that. To say Fitz only had two skills makes you look a little rediculous. That's like saying Manning is only good because he has a quick release and can throw it far. You gotta bring it correct if you're going to bring it at all........

 

I think you are forgetting a few things.

 

Concentration. His eyes are always on the ball and he don't care about defenders or anything, he never loses his concentration

Strength. Fitz has incredible strength which helps him come down with anything while having defenders there to try and dislodge the bal.

Body Control/Positioning. In traffic, fade patterns, whatever, Fitz knows how to position himself to make the catch while going up for the pass.

Seperation. Due to his incredible quickness and strength, Fitz gets seperation better than any wr in the game.

Size. At 6'3 and 220 he is simply too big for most corners to cover.

Elusiveness. Quick slants have always been a strength of Fitz and it's his quickness and elusiveness that allows him to create big plays out of those slants.

Deceptive Speed. Larry may not boast world class speed, but he runs fast enough that Ike Taylor couldn't catch him! As Jerry Rice once said, "I may not be fast, but nobody can catch me!"

Was my comment a hyperbole? Sure, but some of these I just assumed when I said "leaping ability and hands". Concentration, strength (using the definiton you put), body control etc are similar traits to the ones I mentioned. I was stating those skills in a general sense; you are looking for very specific skills. I didn't mention his excellent size (which you are correct in stating that he possesses) as I didn't consider that a 'skill'.

 

However, I do have to disagree with some of these. In fact, after reading this, I almost have to assume that the first time you watched Larry Fitzgerald play was in the playoffs. Elusiveness? He's not bad, but I wouldn't classify as a strength of Fitzgerald at all. Separation? No, especially not before this season. He was a mediocre router-runner who compensated for it with his excellent size and body positioning. That's why he made so many highlight-reel catches with defenders draped all over him: he wasn't elite as at getting separation from them. He made significant improvements in that area this season, but in terms of that skill alone, Anquan Boldin is still better at separating from a defender when facing man coverage (granted, Boldin is one of the best in the league in that category). Deceptive Speed? I don't know what makes speed 'deceptive' or not. Fitzgerald isn't going to be the fastest player on the field; he rarely runs by players (although he did so in the Super Bowl, as well as against Washington and New England. At the same time, though, he was chased down in the open field against Miami). I will say that he is faster this season than he was in years past, likely due to him losing ten pounds in the offseason.

 

Fitz has always been a good route runner. Was there room to improve, sure, but just about every NFL wr can improve in that area. As for falling down after the catch...what? He would simply fall down?! I've never seen Fitz just fall down after making catches...helk, even tough catches. Where is your proof that he falls down.

As I mentioned above, I disagree; he hasn't always been a good route runner. Has he improved in the past year? Absolutely.

 

As far as him falling down, yes, that's exactly what I mean. He was Marvin Harrison-esque in his after the catch mentality prior to this season. Sorry, I don't know where I could find video of this for proof. My observations come from living in Arizona and being forced to watch every Cardinals game (actually, it hadn't been so bad in recent years).

 

Also, here is a final excerpt from an article on Haley and Fitzgerald:

 

"Don't be a one-trick pony," offensive coordinator Todd Haley tells him, referring to the circus catches the 6-foot-3 Fitzgerald regularly makes on the sidelines. Before the season, Haley and Fitzgerald targeted areas requiring improvement: running precise routes, yards after the catch and downfield blocking. When the regular season ended, Fitzgerald had 1,431 yards and 12 TDs and both Fitzgerald and coach Ken Whisenhunt were pointing to those three areas as keys.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/cont...fitzgerald.html

 

In the end, you don't have to agree with me; I'm just trying to give you my viewpoint on the topic.

[Cuse9 128]

First off I'll give you respect for a quality comeback. I always appreciate anyone who puts good thought/quotes/facts in their response.

 

Larry Fitzgerald was normal Larry Fitzgerald in the regular season. He did nothing special that he hasn't done before.

103-1409-10 in 2005

100-1409-10 in 2007

96-1431-12 in 2008

(04 and 06 he didn't play a full season)

 

I don't see what Haley did that was so incredible?! If Fitz was a "one trick pony" and Haley did all these great things with him wouldn't he have posted insane numbers?!

 

Your original statement was too broad and didn't respect everything that Fitz brought to the table by saying he had only leaping ability and hands to rely on. You may not consider his size a skill, but you should agree being that big is something that you can "rely on". Steve Smith can't rely on his size, so he compensates with other skills. As for great hands, Brandon Lloyd has great hands. Problem is he don't concentrate half the time and that's why his phenomenal hands has never got him anywhere. There are plenty of players that have great hands and can jump, but if you don't have the other skills....you just another wr.

 

If you don't think Fitz gets great seperation you're nuts. Go back to his college days. He's great at getting off the line and freeing himself up. His elusivness has always been there. He's always been a decent blocker....the guys does about everything exceptional. When you talk about route running he gets a bad rap. Because he does everthing exceptionally well, he gets knocked for his route running. He may not be Marvin Harrison good, but he is better than the average NFL receiver. By the way, Harrison never fell down?! Marvin simply got what he could and would take a dive to elude the big hits.

 

The post season was simply a side of another great player that you get to see in the playoffs. Many players step up their games in the post season. Carlos Beltran goes from being great to rediculous in the post season, Joe Montana was great in the regular season then legendary in Super Bowls. I don't take what I've seen from Fitz this post season and translate it into exactly what he is. Helk, he's not even the best wr in the NFL. Post season, he and Steve Smith both play at another level.

 

In any event, if you've seen him play every game since you live in the area I'll give way to some of my opinions. I don't see him all the time so I can only go by what I see, when I see it. From what I've seen this year, I haven't seen an improvement in his game.

 

As for Todd Haley. They say he's great with quarterbacks, yet he couldn't do anything with Leinart. Maybe Leinart is simply no good?! I saw a proven winner in Whisenhunt come over and the attitude seemed to change in Zona. I think Haley benefited from that. Having Warner, Fitz, Boldin, Breaston and James (very underrated pass blocker) made Haley look much better than what he may be.

 

I think we can both agree that Fitz was unbelievable in the playoffs and should continue to be one of the best wr's in the NFL for a long time. Boldin on the other hand...gone, gone, gone.

[Inspiration 0]

First off I'll give you respect for a quality comeback. I always appreciate anyone who puts good thought/quotes/facts in their response.

 

Larry Fitzgerald was normal Larry Fitzgerald in the regular season. He did nothing special that he hasn't done before.

103-1409-10 in 2005

100-1409-10 in 2007

96-1431-12 in 2008

(04 and 06 he didn't play a full season)

 

I don't see what Haley did that was so incredible?! If Fitz was a "one trick pony" and Haley did all these great things with him wouldn't he have posted insane numbers?!

First, the numbers side:

 

Yes, he posted similar total numbers in past season, but his actually production per opportunity is dramatically up. Look at his yards after the catch average per reception by year:

 

2004: 3.3

2005: 3.7

2006: 3.2

2007: 3.0

2008: 4.8

 

His YAC average for the first four years of his career was 3.3. By comparison, the aforementioned Marvin Harrison, who was never known for his YAC prowess (to say it lightly) averages 3.3 YAC for his career.

 

(Above stats courtesy of Yahoo Sports)

 

Now look at how that improvement translated into overall success in a measure of yard per target:

 

2004: 6.78

2005: 8.54

2006: 8.55

2007: 8.46

2008: 9.31

 

After plateauing for three years, Fitzgerald production per target dramatically increased in the same year his YAC increased. While his raw numbers may not have displayed his dramatic improvement on the field, his actually efficiency per opportunity did.

 

(Target numbers retrieved from FFToday)

 

I will say numbers are not always the best method of measuring a players' success, as they can be made to lie. I have no way of verifying that a change in another element in the offense was not responsible for the increase in his numbers. Granted, I think that when used in combination with my actual observations of Fitzgerald playing, the above numbers can be used to support my point. However, singlehandedly, they offer no absolute proof of my point.

 

Your original statement was too broad and didn't respect everything that Fitz brought to the table by saying he had only leaping ability and hands to rely on. You may not consider his size a skill, but you should agree being that big is something that you can "rely on". Steve Smith can't rely on his size, so he compensates with other skills. As for great hands, Brandon Lloyd has great hands. Problem is he don't concentrate half the time and that's why his phenomenal hands has never got him anywhere. There are plenty of players that have great hands and can jump, but if you don't have the other skills....you just another wr.

 

If you don't think Fitz gets great seperation you're nuts. Go back to his college days. He's great at getting off the line and freeing himself up. His elusivness has always been there. He's always been a decent blocker....the guys does about everything exceptional. When you talk about route running he gets a bad rap. Because he does everthing exceptionally well, he gets knocked for his route running. He may not be Marvin Harrison good, but he is better than the average NFL receiver. By the way, Harrison never fell down?! Marvin simply got what he could and would take a dive to elude the big hits.

 

The post season was simply a side of another great player that you get to see in the playoffs. Many players step up their games in the post season. Carlos Beltran goes from being great to rediculous in the post season, Joe Montana was great in the regular season then legendary in Super Bowls. I don't take what I've seen from Fitz this post season and translate it into exactly what he is. Helk, he's not even the best wr in the NFL. Post season, he and Steve Smith both play at another level.

 

In any event, if you've seen him play every game since you live in the area I'll give way to some of my opinions. I don't see him all the time so I can only go by what I see, when I see it. From what I've seen this year, I haven't seen an improvement in his game.

 

As for Todd Haley. They say he's great with quarterbacks, yet he couldn't do anything with Leinart. Maybe Leinart is simply no good?! I saw a proven winner in Whisenhunt come over and the attitude seemed to change in Zona. I think Haley benefited from that. Having Warner, Fitz, Boldin, Breaston and James (very underrated pass blocker) made Haley look much better than what he may be.

 

I think we can both agree that Fitz was unbelievable in the playoffs and should continue to be one of the best wr's in the NFL for a long time. Boldin on the other hand...gone, gone, gone.

I completely agree that Fitzgerald's size is an incredibly important part of his game. I didn't mean to take that away from him with my post; I treated it as a "given". Perhaps that was my mistake; I should have been more specific.

 

In terms of getting separation, I still think he wasn't very good in that regard for the early part of his playing career (as I mentioned, he is much improved in that area this season). Also, I do not feel that I am knocking his route-running simply for the reason of finding a fault in his game. I honestly feel he ran frequently ran sloppy routes in the early part of his career and relied on his size, leaping ability, and body control to come away with the ball in tight coverage. That's not to say it didn't work more often than not; as you posted above, his raw numbers iin the early part of his career were still incredibly good.

 

In regards to Marvin Harrison, I would disagree that "he got what he could". In fact, I think he frequently got less than he could before taking a dive or stepping out of bounds (perhaps 'falling down' had the wrong connotation to it. I didn't mean to say that he passed up 30 yards of open field just to end the play. I simply meant he never got the "tough yards" or even the "slightly difficult" yards). That isn't to say that avoiding contact is a bad strategy. In fact, Harrison's avoidance of the big hit is probably what has allowed him to play such a long and most injury free career. However, in the short-term, passing up potential YAC is always an inferior strategy.

 

As far as Haley goes, I wasn't trying to make a comment on his abilities. Maybe he is the reason Matt Leinart hasn't progress. However, I do think that he played a role in making Fitzgerald the elite receiver that he is today.

 

None of this is meant to knock Fitzgerald; the guy is perhaps the best wide receiver in the NFL. I admire the fact that the biggest single year improvement in his game (after his rookie season, of course) came immediately after he received a contract that made him the highest paid receiver in the NFL. That speaks volumes about his character. I am simply pointing out that I think he wasn't always the incredible, all-around player that he has developed into this season.

 

As for Boldin, we'll see. I wouldn't be surprised if Arizona simply continued to offer Boldin an extension while refusing to trade him. Honestly, unless Boldin forces the Cardinals' hand (which, obviously, is quite possible knowing Drew Rosenhaus), I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in a Cardinals' uniform next season. The Cardinals' have too much leverage here for them to cave in to Boldin's demand.

[Cuse9 128]

You've been here since '06 and you've only posted 28 times. You have cheated the boards!!

 

I really appreciated going back and forth with you! This is the kind of discussions that I wish were on the boards more! With your first hand knowledge of watching games and the stats you dug up I will respectfully bow down to you on this topic. While I did not see improvements, obviously there were. Haley may have had a hand in his Fitz' rise in the production of his catches I think the rise in production out of Breaston and Arrington with the addition of Hightower has some pretty good impact as well.

 

We had a clean fight, but now I must submit the title to you on the Fitzgerald/Haley Production topic. It's been a pleasure!!

[Inspiration 0]

You've been here since '06 and you've only posted 28 times. You have cheated the boards!!

 

I really appreciated going back and forth with you! This is the kind of discussions that I wish were on the boards more! With your first hand knowledge of watching games and the stats you dug up I will respectfully bow down to you on this topic. While I did not see improvements, obviously there were. Haley may have had a hand in his Fitz' rise in the production of his catches I think the rise in production out of Breaston and Arrington with the addition of Hightower has some pretty good impact as well.

 

We had a clean fight, but now I must submit the title to you on the Fitzgerald/Haley Production topic. It's been a pleasure!!

I appreciate the kind words. I lurk on a few boards but rarely post on any of them, which explains my low post count.

 

Thanks for the friendly debate!

[Cuse9 128]

I appreciate the kind words. I lurk on a few boards but rarely post on any of them, which explains my low post count.

 

Thanks for the friendly debate!

You don't have to have a high post count to know what you're talking about. In the future be sure and add your insights to the boards, we need more of yout type

[cmh6476 757]

hopefully Haley can help Bowe hold on to the ball, and become a real theat for the Chiefs through the air. I think if we had a receiving threat on the opposite side of the field would really help Bowe's production as well.

[jerryskids 5,209]

Two observations from a Cards fan who watches every game:

1. There is no doubt that Fitzgerald made a concerted effort this year on YAC. He used to go down way easier. I originally figured it was due to Boldin's never-say-die influence, and maybe it was some, but...

2. ... Fitz specifically credited Haley, which I believe has been quoted already.