Dynasty Trade

[krizay 0]

Not at all...Felix has very little effect on Choice's value - Barber does. Dallas is going to continue what they started last year before Felix got hurt, which is a "thunder and lightning" RBBC approach used in New York (Greene will compete with T Jones, with Washington getting his "lightning" touches - he will not compete with Washington for touches), Atlanta (Turner and Norwood are completely different backs) and more and more other places.

 

Felix as the "lightning" will get his share of the plays regardless of who is the "thunder" - so Choice is behind Barber (because of Barber's experience and their similar skillset), but he is NOT behind Jones in the pecking order - because they play totally different offensive roles. RBBC is now the 'norm' in the NFL and "thunder and lightning" is a very effective way to do it. If nothing else, guys like MJD (with F Taylor), DeAngelo, and Michael Turner have proved that RBBC backs CAN put up numbers as good or better than non-RBBC backs (as well as extend their careers).

 

So Choice's playing time is highly dependent on Barber's health rather than anything Mr. Jones does. And Choice's LONG-term dynasty value is dependent on his TALENT. He has already proved that he can be a starting caliber 'bell-cow' NFL RB, which sooner or later translate into him being a valuable commodity. Much as I like (and own), Donald Brown, if Barber were not in the picture, I'd much prefer Choice, because he's already proved he can perform at a high level in the NFL.

 

Also, I expect that the RBs will become a much more dominant factor in the Dallas offense this year, so both Jones and Barber/Choice will get more touches. On the other hand, Romo's role is expected to be reduced, which is why I and many others have him as only a low-end QB1. This is not just speculation, it is part of Dallas' publicly stated offensive plan for 2009.

 

 

LOL this may be the case. He will have NO VALUE in fantasy football UNLESS BOTH PLAYERS GET HURT. If Barber does go down and Choice is the new "thunder". "Lightning" Will get all of the Fantasy football start worthy carries. "Lightning" getting 10 carries in a reserve role can get you 80 yards and maybe a TD. "Thunder" getting 10 carries won't.

 

Thus unless you have absolutely no other option at RB. You WILL NOT start Choice with him only getting 10 carries as a reserve. You are better off starting Cedric Benson or the starter on the worst rushing team in the league than you would be starting Choice in a reserve role.

 

Now if both Jones and Barber gets hurt different story. So I stick to my original statement that he's only getting 1 player out of those 3.

[Ray_T 593]

LOL this may be the case. He will have NO VALUE in fantasy football UNLESS BOTH PLAYERS GET HURT. If Barber does go down and Choice is the new "thunder". "Lightning" Will get all of the Fantasy football start worthy carries. "Lightning" getting 10 carries in a reserve role can get you 80 yards and maybe a TD. "Thunder" getting 10 carries won't.

 

Thus unless you have absolutely no other option at RB. You WILL NOT start Choice with him only getting 10 carries as a reserve. You are better off starting Cedric Benson or the starter on the worst rushing team in the league than you would be starting Choice in a reserve role.

 

Now if both Jones and Barber gets hurt different story. So I stick to my original statement that he's only getting 1 player out of those 3.

I disagree. If Barber gets hurt Choice will play the same Role Barber Plays. Felix may get a few extra carries, but it wont amount to much.

 

And because of Barber's style of running, Injuries are a part of the equasion and you know Choice will get a shot sooner or later. (Either With Dallas or somewhere else.)

[krizay 0]

I disagree. If Barber gets hurt Choice will play the same Role Barber Plays. Felix may get a few extra carries, but it wont amount to much.

 

And because of Barber's style of running, Injuries are a part of the equasion and you know Choice will get a shot sooner or later. (Either With Dallas or somewhere else.)

 

 

It's already been reported that Felix Jones will be a bigger part of the offense. If Barber goes down it just makes it that much more bigger.

 

Another thing to consider is there is No T.O. there. Between T.O., Witten and Roy Williams (who was there by the time Choice did anything) he had room to run. He won't have that with T.O. gone now.

 

EDIT: he only had 1 game in which he was fantasy starting worthy as a backup. Which unless both gets hurt...........

 

 

I guess i'll agree to disagree with you 2.

[Ray_T 593]

It's already been reported that Felix Jones will be a bigger part of the offense. If Barber goes down it just makes it that much more bigger.

 

Another thing to consider is there is No T.O. there. Between T.O., Witten and Roy Williams (who was there by the time Choice did anything) he had room to run. He won't have that with T.O. gone now.

 

EDIT: he only had 1 game in which he was fantasy starting worthy as a backup. Which unless both gets hurt...........

I guess i'll agree to disagree with you 2.

yeah, with TO gone I'd expect that Jones may get more play in the passing game to pickup part of the slack. I dont think his # of carries will be affected much unless Dallas decides to run the ball more often in general.

[madd futher mucker 36]

LOL this may be the case. He will have NO VALUE in fantasy football UNLESS BOTH PLAYERS GET HURT. If Barber does go down and Choice is the new "thunder". "Lightning" Will get all of the Fantasy football start worthy carries. "Lightning" getting 10 carries in a reserve role can get you 80 yards and maybe a TD. "Thunder" getting 10 carries won't.

 

Thus unless you have absolutely no other option at RB. You WILL NOT start Choice with him only getting 10 carries as a reserve. You are better off starting Cedric Benson or the starter on the worst rushing team in the league than you would be starting Choice in a reserve role.

 

Now if both Jones and Barber gets hurt different story. So I stick to my original statement that he's only getting 1 player out of those 3.

 

Not to get in a pizzing contest here, but your argument doesn't make any sense to me. When Barber went down last year Choice stepped in and his per-game stats were BETTER than Barber's were. They have similar skillset but Barber is the veteran. Assuming Barber goes down again, why would Felix role become greater relative to Choice? I believe that the Cowboys have complete confidence in Choice and will maintain the same balance between Thunder and Lightning that they would with Barber in there.

 

Having said that, I believe that the Cowboy backfield - both Barber and Felix- is a backfield to invest in for fantasy re-draft leagues with 16 player rosters, because of the change in Dallas' offensive philosophy. Choice may be too much of a luxury in re-draft situations with 16 man rosters except as a handcuff to Barber. But I maintain that for dynasty rosters of 22 or more roster spots, Choice has enough future value (and possibly value this year) to warrant actively going after him as a roster aquisition. I may be in the minority here, but I'd trade McCoy for Choice in a heartbeat, for example.

 

And I wasn't a big believer in Choice until I saw him play enough last year to realize the guy has real talent, and will eventually be the LEAD BACK for an NFL team. I think the biggest difference between us is that you do not ascribe any value to his talent. Was his play last year was not enough to impress you?... or perhaps you really didn't watch him play. I did. And very few between-the-tackles type runners average over 5 YPC like Choice did last year.

 

So I say Matt's Eagles is getting a 27 year old top 10 RB, as well as an important quality handcuff for him (and perhaps you don't see the value in RB handcuffs for teams that rely on power running attacks like Washington???). AND he's getting a future Value play who has a reasonable chance of paying dividends this year. Given that RBs are the most coveted position to cover in dynasty, I think he's getting a good value for this portion of his proposed trade plan.

 

As an aside, I think Matt's Eagles is getting dissed a little much for trading S Jax last year. Yes it was a bad trade. But give the guy a break. We've all made more than our share of bad trades - unless you are the type who only trades when you can totally bend a guy over. He's asking for help and is trying to pick up the pieces. At one point, all of us were in the same position on the learning curve that he is. Judging by some of the responses here, some of us are still about at that same point. (BTW This is a general observation - I'm not addressing this comment to any particular poster.)

[krizay 0]

Not to get in a pizzing contest here, but your argument doesn't make any sense to me. When Barber went down last year Choice stepped in and his per-game stats were BETTER than Barber's were. They have similar skillset but Barber is the veteran. Assuming Barber goes down again, why would Felix role become greater relative to Choice? I believe that the Cowboys have complete confidence in Choice and will maintain the same balance between Thunder and Lightning that they would with Barber in there.

 

Having said that, I believe that the Cowboy backfield - both Barber and Felix- is a backfield to invest in for fantasy re-draft leagues with 16 player rosters, because of the change in Dallas' offensive philosophy. Choice may be too much of a luxury in re-draft situations with 16 man rosters except as a handcuff to Barber. But I maintain that for dynasty rosters of 22 or more roster spots, Choice has enough future value (and possibly value this year) to warrant actively going after him as a roster aquisition. I may be in the minority here, but I'd trade McCoy for Choice in a heartbeat, for example.

 

And I wasn't a big believer in Choice until I saw him play enough last year to realize the guy has real talent, and will eventually be the LEAD BACK for an NFL team. I think the biggest difference between us is that you do not ascribe any value to his talent. Was his play last year was not enough to impress you?... or perhaps you really didn't watch him play. I did.

 

So I say Matt's Eagles is getting a 27 year old top 10 RB, as well as an important quality handcuff for him (and perhaps you don't see the value in RB handcuffs for teams that rely on power running attacks like Washington???). AND he's getting a future Value play who has a reasonable chance of paying dividends this year. Given that RBs are the most coveted position to cover in dynasty, I think he's getting a good value for this portion of his proposed trade plan.

 

As an aside, I think Matt's Eagles is getting dissed a little much for trading S Jax last year. Yes it was a bad trade. But give the guy a break. We've all made more than our share of bad trades - unless you are the type who only trades when you can totally bend a guy over. He's asking for help and trying to pick up the pieces. At one point, all of us were in the same position on the learning curve that he is. Judging by some of the responses here, some of us are not too far beyond that point yet. (BTW This is a general observation - I'm not addressing this comment to any particular poster.)

 

 

Barber came back playing hurt. And Choice was never the focal point of the defense.

 

With that said.

 

Ray Rice/GinnSteve Smith(NYG) will out produce Portis/Betts/Choice This year and going forward.

[madd futher mucker 36]

Barber came back playing hurt. And Choice was never the focal point of the defense.

 

With that said.

 

Ray Rice/GinnSteve Smith(NYG) will out produce Portis/Betts/Choice This year and going forward.

 

Not only do I disagree, but obtaining WRs who can out-produce Smith and Ginn are a hell of a lot easier to come by than RBs with the proven ability and track record of Portis and the longer term potential of Choice.

[krizay 0]

Not only do I disagree, but obtaining WRs who can out-produce Smith and Ginn are a hell of a lot easier to come by than RBs with the proven ability and track record of Portis and the longer term potential of Choice.

 

 

 

So only RB's have long term potential? I see

[madd futher mucker 36]

So only RB's have long term potential? I see

Let me repeat more SLOWLY this time. I did not say, nor do i believe that RBs have more long term potential.

 

What I SAID WAS: "Not only do I disagree, but obtaining WRs who can out-produce Smith and Ginn are a hell of a lot easier to come by than RBs with the proven ability and track record of Portis and the longer term potential of Choice."

 

I bolded the important context so that maybe you can read the sentence correctly. Now I'm done getting off on a tangent with you regarding this thread. Obviously have a difference of opinion on the whole issue. That's fair. Opinions are like azsholes, everybody has one and most of us think ours is the only one that doesn't stink.

[Matts Eagles 25]

Let me repeat more SLOWLY this time. I did not say, nor do i believe that RBs have more long term potential.

 

What I SAID WAS: "Not only do I disagree, but obtaining WRs who can out-produce Smith and Ginn are a hell of a lot easier to come by than RBs with the proven ability and track record of Portis and the longer term potential of Choice."

 

I bolded the important context so that maybe you can read the sentence correctly. Now I'm done getting off on a tangent with you regarding this thread. Obviously have a difference of opinion on the whole issue. That's fair. Opinions are like azsholes, everybody has one and most of us think ours is the only one that doesn't stink.

 

 

I think i am just going to wait it out.

[Matts Eagles 25]

I just got this counter:

 

 

Either

 

Portis/Betts or Grant/Jackson and Choice with a Number 1 pick next year

 

I give up Gates, Gonzalez, and Hightower.

 

 

Still don't like it. Hightower will at least start half the year.

[krizay 0]

Let me repeat more SLOWLY this time. I did not say, nor do i believe that RBs have more long term potential.

 

What I SAID WAS: "Not only do I disagree, but obtaining WRs who can out-produce Smith and Ginn are a hell of a lot easier to come by than RBs with the proven ability and track record of Portis and the longer term potential of Choice."

 

I bolded the important context so that maybe you can read the sentence correctly. Now I'm done getting off on a tangent with you regarding this thread. Obviously have a difference of opinion on the whole issue. That's fair. Opinions are like azsholes, everybody has one and most of us think ours is the only one that doesn't stink.

 

 

If you totally neglect the words not bolded then that would give you a reason to insult my intelligence.

[madd futher mucker 36]

Arizona drafted Wells for a reason - because Hightower is not the answer. Yes, he will likely be in RBBC for most of the season. But consider. He plays in a Passing oriented offense. He rushed 143 times for 399 yds....an average of just under 2.8 YPC, 34 recepts for 237 more in 8 games. Yes he got 10 TDs as a punch-it-in goal-line back. I traded Hightower away just because I don't believe in his future in the NFL. 2.8 YPC is pathetic under any circumstances,

 

 

Compare with Choice: His 1st start was in December when Barber went down. On the season he rushed 92 times for 472 yds, an average of 5.1 YPC. Had 21 receptions for 185 more yards. He scored only 2 TDs.

 

Compare 2.8 YPC against 5.1 YPC. Which RB do you really think has a brighter NFL future???

 

Now consider Portis. Portis is a top 10 RB1...They don't grow them on trees. You virtually gave one away, remember? He's 27 years old and only had one season, his injury season of 2006 where he didn't rush for over 1250 yards. Guess what: Ladell Betts filled in for Portis that year, and only had 1154 yards rushing and another 445 yds receiving. BTW, Portis played in some or all of 8 games in 2006 and had 523 yds rushing and 170 receiving yards in addition to the yards that Betts got.

 

Plus you get a 1st round rookie next year.

 

Gates is a stud...granted. But he's a TE, which is a dime-a-dozen position based on both # of quality TEs in the league and relative fantasy points. He used to be the undisputed #1 TE but his stats have dropped in each of the last 4 years. Now nobody rates him higher than #2, and I've even seen him rated as low as #3. He's 28 which is older than Portis for crise sake.

 

Gonzalez is an up and coming WR. Last year he caught 57 passes for 664 yards and 4 TDs. He did not make the top 25 WRs in my PPR league last year though, even though Harrison disappeared. He's a nice WR but nobody has ever accused him of being an "elite" talent.

 

If I were you, I'd jump all over the Portis/Betts, Choice and next yrs 1st rounder deal. Despite krizay's contrary opinion, this one is really a no-brainer IMO.

[Matts Eagles 25]

Arizona drafted Wells for a reason - because Hightower is not the answer. Yes, he will likely be in RBBC for most of the season. But consider. He plays in a Passing oriented offense. He rushed 143 times for 399 yds....an average of just under 2.8 YPC, 34 recepts for 237 more in 8 games. Yes he got 10 TDs as a punch-it-in goal-line back. I traded Hightower away just because I don't believe in his future in the NFL. 2.8 YPC is pathetic under any circumstances,

Compare with Choice: His 1st start was in December when Barber went down. On the season he rushed 92 times for 472 yds, an average of 5.1 YPC. Had 21 receptions for 185 more yards. He scored only 2 TDs.

 

But which RB do you really think has a brighter future???

 

Portis is a top 10 RB1...They don't grow them on trees. You virtually gave one away, remember? Plus you get a 1st round rookie next year.

 

Gates is a stud...granted. But he's a TE, which is a dime-a-dozen position based on both # of quality TEs in the league and relative fantasy points. He used to be the undisputed #1 TE but his stats have dropped in each of the last 3 years. Now most places have him rated #3. He's 28 which is older than Portis for crise sake.

 

Gonzalez is an up and coming WR. Last year he caught 57 passes for 664 yards and 4 TDs. He did not make the top 25 WRs in my PPR league last year though, even though Harrison disappeared. He's a nice WR but nobody has ever accused him of being an "elite" talent.

 

I'd jump all over the Portis/Betts, Choice and next yrs 1st rounder deal.

 

My lineup after this trade would be:

 

Brady, Ryan, Kerry Collins, Alex Smith

Portis, Betts, Choice, Washington, brown/ware, Scott/leonard

Devry Henderson, Breaston, Galloway, Maclin, Britt, Barden, Dillard

Boss, Ingram

 

I would have 2 1st rounders next year and 2 second rounders

[madd futher mucker 36]

This is a vast improvement. You'll have added quality back at RB and have some real ammo to build on again next year. As much as I like DeAngelo, I like the fact that you didn't get raped on that Brady, Maclin deal.

 

Now you need to work on the second part of the equation. Getting some production this year from the WR position without sacrificing the future.

Henderson sucks and has little to no trade value. But he might be a nice throw-in to get a trade done you really want.. I'd see what you can get from putting Henderson (career underachiever with hands of stone) and 3 of your 4 rookies up for trade.

 

There's bound to be someone who loves them enough to give you something of real value.

Here's my take on the 4:

Barden - not worth much, but someone might take a chance on his size/speed ratio. He will almost certainly be a bust - slow LOS release and does not play nearly up to his size.

Maclin - a very raw talent, poor route runner - he may become a stud in 3 years - but maybe never. His PERCEIVED value is at an all-time high right now.

Britt - This kid has the POTENTIAL to be a star. Again, much like Maclin, others in your league will be much surer of his stardom than is realistic, so he has great trade value. He has only mediocre hands and is not a natural hands catcher...too often he fights the ball.

Dillard - do not give this kid away cheaply. Great hands, great routes. There is no question in my mind he will be a player.

 

Conclusion: Barden - high bust factor - TRADE!........Maclin and Britt - many love these guys and are willing to pay too much to acquire them - Trade for maximum value in terms of both present and future production.

 

Dillard is undervalued relative to his potential. Keep!

 

BTW re-read my 10:31 post you copied and replied to. I edited it with some additional info and to correct one inacurate generalization on my part.

[Matts Eagles 25]

This is a vast improvement. You'll have added quality back at RB and have som real ammo to build on again next year. As much as I like DeAngelo, I like the fact that you didn't get raped on that Brady, Maclin deal.

 

Now you need to work on the second part of the equation. Getting some production this year from the WR position without sacrificing the future.

Henderson sucks and has little to no trade value. But he might be a nice throw-in to get a trade done you really want.. I'd see what you can get from putting Henderson (career underachiever with hands of stone) and 3 of your 4 rookies up for trade.

 

There's bound to be someone who loves them enough to give you something of real value.

Here's my take on the 4:

Barden - not worth much, but someone might take a chance on him. He will be a bust - slow LOS release and does not play up to his size.

Maclin - a very raw talent, poor route runner - he may become a stud in 3 years - maybe never. His PERCEIVED value is at an all-time high right now.

Britt - This kid has the POTENTIAL to be a star. Again, much like Maclin, others in your league will be much surer of his stardom than is realistic, so he has great trade value. He has only mediocre hands and is not a natural hands catcher...too often he fights the ball.

Dillard - do not give this kid away cheaply. Great hands, great routes. There is no question in my mind he will be a player.

 

Conclusion: Barden - high bust factor - TRADE!........Maclin and Britt - many love these guys and are willing to pay too much to acquire them - Trade for maximum value in terms of both present and future production.

 

Dillard is undervalued relative to his potential. Keep!

 

I am hoping 2 out of the 4 wrs

 

Maclin, Barden, Britt and Dillard pan out.

 

I am also hoping that Brown or Scott come out of nowhere.

 

One good thing about DWill I think he is in a contract year. So he might be heading elsewhere.

[madd futher mucker 36]

Brown, Scott and Dillard are holds. Just don't expect much from any of them the 1st year. Although particularly Dillard and Scott may surprise you.

 

You can hope til hell freezes over with Barden - trust me, he aint gonna cut it.

 

Maclin will get you return yards this year, but why keep him when you can get others to overpay for him with an established player that you don't have to 'hope' pans out. His present trade value is MUCH higher than his probability for stardom.

 

Britt is a real dilemna, because he really could become special. I absolutely know he MUST improve his pass catching technique to be a stud in the league. But I love his situation, his attitude and his work ethic. If you trade him, make sure you get some real top-dollar value (but I still think there will be someone who will overpay for his potential).

[enis_44 0]

So If I am following correctly, this trade would effectively make up for the Sjax blunder.

 

Sjax for Gates, Agonz, Hightower

 

Gates, Agonz, Hightower for Portis, Betts, Choice, 1st rounder

 

= Sjax for Portis, Betts, Choice, 1st rounder

 

Now that sounds much better to me. Pull the trigger, take a breath, and be glad you still have Brady.

[madd futher mucker 36]

So If I am following correctly, this trade would effectively make up for the Sjax blunder.

 

Sjax for Gates, Agonz, Hightower

 

Gates, Agonz, Hightower for Portis, Betts, Choice, 1st rounder

 

= Sjax for Portis, Betts, Choice, 1st rounder

 

Now that sounds much better to me. Pull the trigger, take a breath, and be glad you still have Brady.

 

Amen - and I actually think he comes out on the plus side overall........

[madd futher mucker 36]

I just got this counter:

Either

 

Portis/Betts or Grant/Jackson and Choice with a Number 1 pick next year

 

I give up Gates, Gonzalez, and Hightower.

Still don't like it. Hightower will at least start half the year.

 

But I literally had to drag him into it (pats self on back). Where should I send the bill for my consulting services, Matt's Eagles?

[krizay 0]

I am hoping 2 out of the 4 wrs

 

Maclin, Barden, Britt and Dillard pan out.

 

I am also hoping that Brown or Scott come out of nowhere.

 

One good thing about DWill I think he is in a contract year. So he might be heading elsewhere.

 

 

The mere fact you are looking for WR help. Is the exact reason you should have tried for Rice/Ginn/Steve Smith instead of 1 RB and 2 backup RB's.

 

At the very least, Portis/Betts and Ginn instead of choice.

 

 

But good luck!!!!!!

[oldguru 0]

Arizona drafted Wells for a reason - because Hightower is not the answer. Yes, he will likely be in RBBC for most of the season. But consider. He plays in a Passing oriented offense. He rushed 143 times for 399 yds....an average of just under 2.8 YPC, 34 recepts for 237 more in 8 games. Yes he got 10 TDs as a punch-it-in goal-line back. I traded Hightower away just because I don't believe in his future in the NFL. 2.8 YPC is pathetic under any circumstances,

Compare with Choice: His 1st start was in December when Barber went down. On the season he rushed 92 times for 472 yds, an average of 5.1 YPC. Had 21 receptions for 185 more yards. He scored only 2 TDs.

 

Compare 2.8 YPC against 5.1 YPC. Which RB do you really think has a brighter NFL future???

 

Now consider Portis. Portis is a top 10 RB1...They don't grow them on trees. You virtually gave one away, remember? He's 27 years old and only had one season, his injury season of 2006 where he didn't rush for over 1250 yards. Guess what: Ladell Betts filled in for Portis that year, and only had 1154 yards rushing and another 445 yds receiving. BTW, Portis played in some or all of 8 games in 2006 and had 523 yds rushing and 170 receiving yards in addition to the yards that Betts got.

 

Plus you get a 1st round rookie next year.

 

Gates is a stud...granted. But he's a TE, which is a dime-a-dozen position based on both # of quality TEs in the league and relative fantasy points. He used to be the undisputed #1 TE but his stats have dropped in each of the last 4 years. Now nobody rates him higher than #2, and I've even seen him rated as low as #3. He's 28 which is older than Portis for crise sake.

 

Gonzalez is an up and coming WR. Last year he caught 57 passes for 664 yards and 4 TDs. He did not make the top 25 WRs in my PPR league last year though, even though Harrison disappeared. He's a nice WR but nobody has ever accused him of being an "elite" talent.

 

If I were you, I'd jump all over the Portis/Betts, Choice and next yrs 1st rounder deal. Despite krizay's contrary opinion, this one is really a no-brainer IMO.

 

I would listen to MFM......and make the trade in a heartbeat. Improved RB & keep Brady. JMO.

[Matts Eagles 25]

I would listen to MFM......and make the trade in a heartbeat. Improved RB & keep Brady. JMO.

 

 

Now he won't do that trade he wants to do this one. I told him no to this one and reoffered the other one with portis:

 

I get:

 

Cutler, Rice, Choice, V Davis, Ginn, 1st rounder

 

for

 

Brady, Gonzo, Hightower, Gates, Collins

 

 

Here are our teams again:

 

QB

Tom Brady (NE)

Matt Ryan (ATL)

Kerry Collins (TEN)

 

RB

Leon Washington (NYJ)

Tim Hightower (ARI)

Brian Leonard (CIN)

Danny Ware (NYG)

Rashad Jennings (JAC)

Andre Brown (NYG)

Bernard Scott (CIN)

 

WR

Anthony Gonzalez (IND)

Steve Breaston (ARI)

Joey Galloway (NE)

Devry Henderson (NO)

Johnnie Lee Higgins (OAK)

Jeremy Maclin (PHI)

Kenny Britt (TEN)

Ramses Barden (NYG)

Jarett Dillard (JAC

 

TE

Antonio Gates (SD)

Kevin Boss (NYG)

Cornelius Ingram (PHI)

 

K

Kris Brown (HOU)

 

DL

Jerod Mayo (NE)

Jason Jones (TEN)

James Laurinaitis (STL)

 

DB

Ed Reed (BAL)

Leon Hall (CIN)

 

His team:

 

QB

Jay Cutler (CHI)

Luke McCown (TB)

 

RB

Clinton Portis (WAS)

Ryan Grant (GB)

Ray Rice (BAL)

Ladell Betts (WAS)

Brandon Jackson (GB)

Tashard Choice (DAL)

Chris Wells (ARI)

 

WR

Eddie Royal (DEN)

Ted Ginn Jr. (MIA)

Roy Williams (DAL)

Steve Smith (NYG)

Brandon Jones (SF)

Devin Thomas (WAS)

James Hardy (BUF)

Jerome Simpson (CIN)

Brandon Tate (NE)

Austin Collie (IND)

Brian Hartline (MIA)

 

TE

Vernon Davis (SF)

Todd Heap (BAL)

Shawn Nelson (BUF)

 

K

Neil Rackers (ARI)

 

DL

Ray Lewis (BAL)

Julian Peterson (DET)

 

DB

Josh Wilson (SEA)

Terrence McGee (BUF)

 

I think I am done trying to trade with this guy.

 

 

I offered

 

Brady and Galloway for

 

Romo and D Will

[krizay 0]

Now he won't do that trade he wants to do this one. I told him no to this one and reoffered the other one with portis:

 

I get:

 

Cutler, Rice, Choice, V Davis, Ginn, 1st rounder

 

for

 

Brady, Gonzo, Hightower, Gates, Collins

Here are our teams again:

 

QB

Tom Brady (NE)

Matt Ryan (ATL)

Kerry Collins (TEN)

 

RB

Leon Washington (NYJ)

Tim Hightower (ARI)

Brian Leonard (CIN)

Danny Ware (NYG)

Rashad Jennings (JAC)

Andre Brown (NYG)

Bernard Scott (CIN)

 

WR

Anthony Gonzalez (IND)

Steve Breaston (ARI)

Joey Galloway (NE)

Devry Henderson (NO)

Johnnie Lee Higgins (OAK)

Jeremy Maclin (PHI)

Kenny Britt (TEN)

Ramses Barden (NYG)

Jarett Dillard (JAC

 

TE

Antonio Gates (SD)

Kevin Boss (NYG)

Cornelius Ingram (PHI)

 

K

Kris Brown (HOU)

 

DL

Jerod Mayo (NE)

Jason Jones (TEN)

James Laurinaitis (STL)

 

DB

Ed Reed (BAL)

Leon Hall (CIN)

 

His team:

 

QB

Jay Cutler (CHI)

Luke McCown (TB)

 

RB

Clinton Portis (WAS)

Ryan Grant (GB)

Ray Rice (BAL)

Ladell Betts (WAS)

Brandon Jackson (GB)

Tashard Choice (DAL)

Chris Wells (ARI)

 

WR

Eddie Royal (DEN)

Ted Ginn Jr. (MIA)

Roy Williams (DAL)

Steve Smith (NYG)

Brandon Jones (SF)

Devin Thomas (WAS)

James Hardy (BUF)

Jerome Simpson (CIN)

Brandon Tate (NE)

Austin Collie (IND)

Brian Hartline (MIA)

 

TE

Vernon Davis (SF)

Todd Heap (BAL)

Shawn Nelson (BUF)

 

K

Neil Rackers (ARI)

 

DL

Ray Lewis (BAL)

Julian Peterson (DET)

 

DB

Josh Wilson (SEA)

Terrence McGee (BUF)

 

I think I am done trying to trade with this guy.

I offered

 

Brady and Galloway for

 

Romo and D Will

 

 

If you could take the QB's out of the equation. This deal would be better for you. You're not going to win this year. That's the bottom line. Taking Portis who will be 29 at the start of next year (the earliest you have a chance at winng.) over a 22 year old Rice wouldn't be a smart long term move in my opinion.

 

But yeah, doesn't look good with the QB's in there imo.

[Matts Eagles 25]

If you could take the QB's out of the equation. This deal would be better for you. You're not going to win this year. That's the bottom line. Taking Portis who will be 29 at the start of next year (the earliest you have a chance at winng.) over a 22 year old Rice wouldn't be a smart long term move in my opinion.

 

But yeah, doesn't look good with the QB's in there imo.

 

 

I do not think any trade would get me close to winning this year. I came in 9th out of 16 missing the playoffs by one. I think rebuilding is the thing I need to do.

[madd futher mucker 36]

Let me get this straight. HE makes YOU an offer. You accept. Then he reneges on the offer? WTF??? Don't you have rules about this? Was this an offer or just a discussion? If it was just 'feelers' you wasted a lot of our time on this board.

 

If it was a verbal offer that he reneged on, tell him that you if he EVER wants to propose an offer to you again, he must do it through the website. Let him know you won't waste your time with a guy who won't keep his word after he proposes an offer and takes it back when you indicate you'll accept. He should have the courtesy to give you at least 24 hours to accept it.

 

Know the character of the person you are dealing with. Lesson learned.

[Matts Eagles 25]

Let me get this straight. HE makes YOU an offer. You accept. Then he reneges on the offer? WTF??? Don't you have rules about this? Was this an offer or just a discussion? If it was just 'feelers' you wasted a lot of our time on this board.

 

If it was a verbal offer that he reneged on, tell him that you if he EVER wants to propose an offer to you again, he must do it through the website. Let him know you won't waste your time with a guy who won't keep his word after he proposes an offer and give you at least 24 hours to accept it.

 

Know the character of the person you are dealing with. Lesson learned.

 

He offered the other deal. I told him I would think about it. Came on here getting advice. He offered larger trade. I declined and then reoffered original trade.

[madd futher mucker 36]

Then it is your bad. All part of the learning experience, bro. You have to get to the point where you just 'know' a good deal from a bad one and make quick decisions if they are good. When you stalled on the original trade, he re-evaluated and decided on his own that he made too good of an offer to you. If you can't make up your mind immediately, next time ask him specifically.... can i have overnite to think about it? Then give him a PROMPT answer the next day.

 

In most leagues, only offers through the website are binding, but most guys are pretty reliable about verbal offers and follow throiugh on the website. I don't blame him at all for retracting. The old "I'll think about it" just doesn't cut it.

 

Well if nothing else you are learning somthing (hopefully) about evaluating trades and trade protocol. I've only been doing fantasy for about 10 years. I have a feeling it's gonna take you awhile to improve your fantasy skills - and that team of yours.

[madd futher mucker 36]

I just got this counter:

Either

 

Portis/Betts or Grant/Jackson and Choice with a Number 1 pick next year

 

I give up Gates, Gonzalez, and Hightower.

Still don't like it. Hightower will at least start half the year.

You posted this at 9:47 last nite .

 

Less than an hour later, it appeared you decided to do the trade. I quote

"My lineup after this trade would be:

 

Brady, Ryan, Kerry Collins, Alex Smith

Portis, Betts, Choice, Washington, brown/ware, Scott/leonard

Devry Henderson, Breaston, Galloway, Maclin, Britt, Barden, Dillard

Boss, Ingram

 

I would have 2 1st rounders next year and 2 second rounders"

 

Just for my info - when did you really get that either - or offer, and when did you get back to him? When did he withdraw his offer and replace it with the other one. something still doesn't quite add up here. I'm guessing you sat on his proposal quite a while before you made your post about it last nite.

[Matts Eagles 25]

At 9:47 last nite you posted this.

 

Less than an hour later, it appeared to decide to do the trade. I quote

My lineup after this trade would be:

 

Brady, Ryan, Kerry Collins, Alex Smith

Portis, Betts, Choice, Washington, brown/ware, Scott/leonard

Devry Henderson, Breaston, Galloway, Maclin, Britt, Barden, Dillard

Boss, Ingram

 

I would have 2 1st rounders next year and 2 second rounders"

 

Just for my info - when did you really get the either'or offer, and when did you get back to him?

 

1030 PM i said i wanted to do it. This morning before I went to work he said the new offer (which was an offer we discussed before) was now his only offer.

[madd futher mucker 36]

FWIW, regarding trade #2, I'm interested: How long did it take for you to tell him to go fock himself??? If it took you more than two seconds you took too damn long. (And I sure in hell hope you didn't tell him you would think about it.)

[WhiteWonder 2,179]

i think all of these deals look pretty bad for you.

 

including when you dealt jackson.

[Matts Eagles 25]

i think all of these deals look pretty bad for you.

 

including when you dealt jackson.

 

 

I get it the Jackson deal was a bad deal.

 

Thanks for your 2 cents.

[Matts Eagles 25]

FWIW, regarding trade #2, I'm interested: How long did it take for you to tell him to go fock himself??? If it took you more than two seconds you took too damn long. (And I sure in hell hope you didn't tell him you would think about it.)

 

 

No I told him no thanks. And that I was not interested in Cutler. And that I was giving up too much and not rebuilding my team.

[Matts Eagles 25]

No I told him no thanks. And that I was not interested in Cutler. And that I was giving up too much and not rebuilding my team.

 

 

Lol I could always trade Gates for Robiskie, Lenwhale white and a number 2

 

QB

Jake Delhomme (CAR)

Matt Leinart (ARI)

Kurt Warner (ARI)

Jeff Garcia (OAK)

 

RB

Frank Gore (SF)

Willie Parker (PIT)

LenDale White (TEN)

Mewelde Moore (PIT)

Quinton Ganther (TEN)

Gary Russell (OAK)

 

WR

Andre Johnson (HOU)

Greg Jennings (GB)

Torry Holt (JAC)

Antonio Bryant (TB)

Matt Jones (FA)

Josh Morgan (SF)

Bobby Wade (MIN)

Ruvell Martin (GB)

Brian Robiskie (CLE)

 

TE

Owen Daniels (HOU)

Benjamin Watson (NE)

 

K

Ryan Longwell (MIN)

 

DL

Brian Urlacher (CHI)

D.J. Williams (DEN)

Joey Porter (MIA)

 

DB

Darrelle Revis (NYJ)

Cortland Finnegan (TEN)

[WhiteWonder 2,179]

if you want more than just my 2 cents

 

if you are intent on trading Brady, you need to be getting much more value in return.

 

there have to be teams that are on the cusp of winning and Brady would put them over the top. But the thing is, Brady is a fine prospect and should produce for you for the next 5+ years so you really need to make sure you get enogh pieces in return.

 

situational players with upside like Tashard Choice are fine and dandy but you need to be getting some stars as well.

[Matts Eagles 25]

if you want more than just my 2 cents

 

if you are intent on trading Brady, you need to be getting much more value in return.

 

there have to be teams that are on the cusp of winning and Brady would put them over the top. But the thing is, Brady is a fine prospect and should produce for you for the next 5+ years so you really need to make sure you get enogh pieces in return.

 

situational players with upside like Tashard Choice are fine and dandy but you need to be getting some stars as well.

 

I understand that. But everyone with the a good rb just has just that 1 good rb. Between these 2 teams

 

they have:

 

 

Beanie Wells (he is not trading already asked)

Grant/Jackson

Portis/Betts

DeAngelo Williams

ADP/Taylor (he is a big minny fan and not gonna trade)

Larry Johnson/Jamaal Charles

 

There is a guy that has

Jacobs

Mcgahee

Ward

Mcclain

 

 

 

There is a guy with

Westbrook and LT, and Felix Jones

 

 

The guy that needs a qb

 

has this

QB

JaMarcus Russell (OAK) Daunte Culpepper (DET)

Ryan Fitzpatrick (BUF)

Pat White (MIA)

 

RB

Edgerrin James (FA)

Marshawn Lynch (BUF)

Najeh Davenport (FA)

Kevin Faulk (NE)

LeSean McCoy (PHI)

 

WR

Lee Evans (BUF)

Mark Clayton (BAL)

Drew Carter (OAK)

Josh Reed (BUF)

Brandon Lloyd (FA)

Lance Moore (NO)

Donnie Avery (STL)

Greg Camarillo (MIA)

Mike Furrey (CLE)

Chansi Stuckey (NYJ

I mean a 16 team league RBs are slim pickings

[WhiteWonder 2,179]

I understand that. But everyone with the a good rb just has just that 1 good rb. Between these 2 teams

 

they have:

Beanie Wells (he is not trading already asked)

Grant/Jackson

Portis/Betts

DeAngelo Williams

ADP/Taylor (he is a big minny fan and not gonna trade)

Larry Johnson/Jamaal Charles

 

There is a guy that has

Jacobs

Mcgahee

Ward

Mcclain

There is a guy with

Westbrook and LT, and Felix Jones

The guy that needs a qb

 

has this

QB

JaMarcus Russell (OAK) Daunte Culpepper (DET)

Ryan Fitzpatrick (BUF)

Pat White (MIA)

 

RB

Edgerrin James (FA)

Marshawn Lynch (BUF)

Najeh Davenport (FA)

Kevin Faulk (NE)

LeSean McCoy (PHI)

 

WR

Lee Evans (BUF)

Mark Clayton (BAL)

Drew Carter (OAK)

Josh Reed (BUF)

Brandon Lloyd (FA)

Lance Moore (NO)

Donnie Avery (STL)

Greg Camarillo (MIA)

Mike Furrey (CLE)

Chansi Stuckey (NYJ

I mean a 16 team league RBs are slim pickings

 

based on most of these posts i take it the guy with Beanie WANTS Brady. He seems to be offering you trades... He wont trade Wells? Then you won't trade Brady. (i dont know if you like or want wells this is just an example of the stance you have to take) Dont let him make hard decisions on who he will or wont trade when he wants your best player.

 

He has plenty of runningbacks there is no reason he can't give you a Portis along with a Wells i.e. an aging but useful star along with a potential stud. You have to give up potential if you want to win now.

 

ADP is more valuable IMO than Brady so forget that but I see Portis/Betts, Wells and DeAngelo as pieces he should be willing to part with (not all of them together obviously)

[Matts Eagles 25]

based on most of these posts i take it the guy with Beanie WANTS Brady. He seems to be offering you trades... He wont trade Wells? Then you won't trade Brady. (i dont know if you like or want wells this is just an example of the stance you have to take) Dont let him make hard decisions on who he will or wont trade when he wants your best player.

 

He has plenty of runningbacks there is no reason he can't give you a Portis along with a Wells i.e. an aging but useful star along with a potential stud. You have to give up potential if you want to win now.

 

ADP is more valuable IMO than Brady so forget that but I see Portis/Betts, Wells and DeAngelo as pieces he should be willing to part with (not all of them together obviously)

 

 

Lol now he comes back with

 

Grant/Jackson, Choice Vernon Davis and 2nd rounder

 

for

 

Gates, Gonzo, Hightower and Collins

 

I am thinking about asking him for

 

Portis/Betts/ Rice, and Venond Davis and Steve Smith and a 1st rounder

 

Maybe he will stop offering me trades.

[krizay 0]

You had every oppurtunity to make this team better. Totally screwed the pooch. You need to just send him what you want. If he declines he declines. If he sends a counter just keep sending him the same trade everytime he counters. Negotiating a deal is obviously too much for you at this time.