Commissioner seeks advice to settle illegal roster issue

[daredevil71 0]

Twelve team money league, $100.00 buy-in, third year playing, @ CBSsportsline this year after two years @ MFL.

 

Okay, here's the skinny:

 

Teams may start either 2 RB + 2 WR, or 1 RB + 3 WR. Two teams this week started 2 RB + "3" WR, in place of a defense on bye constituting an illegal roster. One matchup resulted in a win for the illegal roster, and the other matchup will most likely end up with the other illegal roster losing (opponent needs 2 pts tonight on MNF).

 

Attempting to configure the CBS site to block this from happening has been a challenge. Nevertheless, this is our third year playing, and everyone knows the roster options. I have not made a ruling on this yet, but need to by tomorrow morning. What I expect is to hear an argument that, "if the site ALLOWS you to submit your roster with 2 RB + 3 WR without blocking it, why should I be penalized?" One note: the roster rules are clearly laid out in the rules tab on our old MFL site, wheras on the CBS site its a little confusing due to its verbage on Max players allowed. But we have the same twelve owners from year one, and whenever some rule changes/ adjustments have been made considering we're at a new site, its been very clearly laid out via msg board and email.

 

I have in mind what needs to be done, but would like to hear your opinions on the following:

 

* Is there a case for the two teams to defend their right to start their rosters in that configuration since the site allows them to?

 

* If we rule its an automatic forfeit due to illegal rosters, what about the "points?" are they given zero points on the week? (We're in a head-to-head league with playoffs, but points come into play with ties in standings)

 

* Has anyone else had difficulty with preventing illegal rosters on CBS?

 

 

Your input would be greatly appreciated. My experience playing fantasy football over the years is that its very competitive, and people will always bend the rules if possible, especially when changing sites and things becomes somewhat ambiguous. But we have to stick to the rules. Please chime in.

 

Thanks.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,281]

regardless of whatever site you use, if your rules should state, invalid lineups will result in loss

 

about points, they forfeit all points or give them the scores of the lowest team that week, 2 owners tried to take advantage of the site. Thats shady and harsh punishment should be in effect

[montana 89]

Rules are rules.... regardless of money, owners, whatever. both teams forfeit & their scores should be adjusted. Here's what I have done in the past: both teams score will be adjusted to 1 less point than their oppnt. that week, resulting in a loss. If said teams do this again, they score zero points from there on (for every time they do it). This is why its important to hand out a "hard copy" of the rules & not just relay on the web site rules. I have my owners fill out their info (email addy, cell phone, etc...) and also sign that they have read & understand the rules/ have paid in full to play & no refund will be granted when the draft starts. Now is the time to post a message /email to ALL owners on the guidelines for line ups/rosters. Make it known that you are aware of the issue(s) & whats being done to remedy it, along with what punishment (if any? - see above?) said infractions will result in. If they don't know the line up regulations by week 5 I call BULLSH!T.........especially if they've played in this league before & the rules/line ups have not changed!

[Drizzay 708]

Punch them in the face in front of their wife and kids.

[billmatic 0]

Punch them in the face in front of their wife and kids.

 

this.

[madd futher mucker 36]

Don't you have a RULES IN WRITING on this other than on the old MFL site? and if you do, Does it state what the remedy is also? It damn well should. Your rules from the MFL site should have beeb cut and pasted to the new site intact.

 

If you do not have complete written rules separate from the website, but only message board and email precedents, shame on you. That said, commishioner emails and message board postings are indeed substitutes you can hang your hat on, howeverm if you did not make clear the PENALTY for an infraction, you again have caused yourself a problem.

 

Commishioners are supposed to run the league so as to anticipate and eliminate problems BEFORE they occur, and this includes both rules and consequences for violating them.

 

So I don't know what your 'case law' is, but assuming you do have emails regarding the line-ups that are to be allowed, I'd void the win and take the flack I guess. Good luck with YOUR problem.

 

The fact that TWO teams had illegal line-ups strongly suggests to me that the commishioner wasn't doing his job right and needs to be replaced.

[daredevil71 0]

Don't you have a RULES IN WRITING on this other than on the old MFL site? and if you do, Does it state what the remedy is also? It damn well should. Your rules from the MFL site should have beeb cut and pasted to the new site intact.

 

If you do not have complete written rules separate from the website, but only message board and email precedents, shame on you. That said, commishioner emails and message board postings are indeed substitutes you can hang your hat on, howeverm if you did not make clear the PENALTY for an infraction, you again have caused yourself a problem.

 

Commishioners are supposed to run the league so as to anticipate and eliminate problems BEFORE they occur, and this includes both rules and consequences for violating them.

 

So I don't know what your 'case law' is, but assuming you do have emails regarding the line-ups that are to be allowed, I'd void the win and take the flack I guess. Good luck with YOUR problem.

 

The fact that TWO teams had illegal line-ups strongly suggests to me that the commishioner wasn't doing his job right and needs to be replaced.

 

I agree with you that rules need to be copied pasted/ re-written etc whenever you move to a new site. That's fair. And i can take constructive criticism. But I will say this, nothing has ever, ever been ambiguous in our league. Regarding the current illegal roster situation, A) our roster rules were clearly displayed on our old site, and there have been at least three occasions where I copied and pasted sections of those by-laws on our msg board regarding other issues. Everyone knows our roster options -- in fact in year one we had lengthy discussions about how many RBs WRs starters should be allowed. So everyone is in the know. C) Since you care to pontificate about my incompetence Madd I'll agree with you again that there should be detailed rules/cosequences in writing and transfered to new sites. I wil say this, I'm actually the "interim commish," since the original commish bowed out at the midnight hour due to other personal responsibilities. I'm not using this as an excuse, but I've done my absolute best to roll with the situation, make the best of it, and be straight up and prompt with all the occasional bumps that come with moving to another site. I will put things expressly in print though. Thanks for the advice.

 

Thanks for all the input y'all. And hope you crushed your matchup this week! I need Braylon's sorry arse to get me three more lousy pts!

 

 

Cheers.

[neworleansff2003 0]

you need to apologize to your league first of all.

 

both teams get zero points this week as there is no way to know who they "wanted" to start (yeah right, lol).

 

you CAN EASILY set up sportsline to do what you want....we have far more complex rules in our league. All you do is

 

Min qb 1, max qb 1

min rb 1, max rb 2

min wr 2, max wr 3

min TE 1, max te 1 (just guessing here)

min k 1, max k 1

min def 1, max d 1

 

then check the box "illegal lineups result in zero score"

 

and call it a day

 

....the CBS site literally blows up in your face if you try to set an illegal lineup, and further, within 10 minutes of a game starting the players will call or email the league and say "oh noes, illegal lineup, my bad, please sit devery henderson and start mike bell, both still have zero points as of 10:24 in first quarter."

[Quickolas1 80]

then check the box "illegal lineups result in zero score"

 

and call it a day

 

....the CBS site literally blows up in your face if you try to set an illegal lineup

 

what he said. not sure how this could be confusing in a cbs commish league. has always worked perfectly in football, baseball & basketball for me.

 

clearly, a team with an ineligible lineup cannot win this week.

 

what i would do is look at the last eligible lineup each team had that fits your allowed setup with rbs+wrs. assuming they both have the same D's and didn't cut them, just put them in and hopefully they both lose with those respective lineups. use transaction report for the information needed. and then clarify this will never be allowed again.

 

if not, you've got a prob. then i would give them zero points although that could suck if one of them might have won something $ for total season points.

[daredevil71 0]

you need to apologize to your league first of all.

 

both teams get zero points this week as there is no way to know who they "wanted" to start (yeah right, lol).

 

you CAN EASILY set up sportsline to do what you want....we have far more complex rules in our league. All you do is

 

Min qb 1, max qb 1

min rb 1, max rb 2

min wr 2, max wr 3

min TE 1, max te 1 (just guessing here)

min k 1, max k 1

min def 1, max d 1

 

then check the box "illegal lineups result in zero score"

 

and call it a day

 

....the CBS site literally blows up in your face if you try to set an illegal lineup, and further, within 10 minutes of a game starting the players will call or email the league and say "oh noes, illegal lineup, my bad, please sit devery henderson and start mike bell, both still have zero points as of 10:24 in first quarter."

 

 

thanks, appreciate it. an apology was already made -- that's a given with me if i inadvertantly drop the ball.

 

I set it up the way you posted above, except that with "min" i put zero in the fields - why should u be penalized if you choose not or accidentally leave a starting position in reserve? and I didn't want a team to get zero points for having seven starters instead of eight. (so of course the "illegal rosters score zero points in standings" option was checked)

 

2 max RB, and 3 max WR was entered in the fields. I'm assuming that not entering a value in "min" may have allowed them to start the illegal roster.

 

again. thanks for the input.

[goodoldalky 0]

IMO.. If the roster requirements are in writing somewhere, it shouldn't matter that the online interface allowed them to start extra RBs/WRs instead of a defense. Just because the lineup submission system allows you to break the rules doesn't mean that it is legal.

 

Think about if you used a paper and pencil system. Just because they can write in as many RB's and WR's as they want on the roster form, does that make it okay to put them in there? Of course not.

 

So if the roster requirements are somewhere in writing, the owners clearly broke the rules knowingly (or at least, they should have known), and should be penalized. Impossible to determine who they would have started, so the penalty from where I sit would either be a zero for the week or to remove their highest scoring RB/WR and give them the remaining points for the week.

[Quickolas1 80]

IMO.. If the roster requirements are in writing somewhere, it shouldn't matter that the online interface allowed them to start extra RBs/WRs instead of a defense. Just because the lineup submission system allows you to break the rules doesn't mean that it is legal.

 

Think about if you used a paper and pencil system. Just because they can write in as many RB's and WR's as they want on the roster form, does that make it okay to put them in there? Of course not.

 

So if the roster requirements are somewhere in writing, the owners clearly broke the rules knowingly (or at least, they should have known), and should be penalized. Impossible to determine who they would have started, so the penalty from where I sit would either be a zero for the week or to remove their highest scoring RB/WR and give them the remaining points for the week.

 

could go back to last week's lineup like i suggested (or most recent possible)

[daredevil71 0]

could go back to last week's lineup like i suggested (or most recent possible)

 

and on a lighter note, Braylon Edwards is officially not the bum he used to be! any other Edwards owner sighing a collective sigh of relief? i know i am. W baby!

[sirensong 111]

it is the responsibility of the commish clearly to define the rules. it is the responsibility of the players to abide by them. if you have explained the roster requirements to the league at any point, do the following:

 

1. teams that started 3WRs will have their 3rd WR removed from the gameday roster, leaving an empty spot for the defense.

 

2. since no defense was used, the max point deduction for PA (usually -10 for giving up 30pp or more) will be applied to the score.

 

3. recompute scores, and finalize records.

 

it's a decent buy-in, so enforcing the rules is all the more important. this avoids the CBS interface problem (because abiding by the rules is the players' responsibility, not CBS's responsibility), handles the points/tiebreaker issue, and prevents forced forfeits. guys will grumble about a loss, but a forfeit causes serious problems in the league.

 

guys will complain. it is important to remind them that following the rules is THEIR responsibility. YOU are not doing this to them. THEY did it to themselves. just keep it lighthearted.

 

[edit: absolutely disagree with those saying that you need to apologize. FF is a game, and games are defined by rules. there must be consequences for failure to abide by the rules. they knew the rules, and violated them. since you did not violate the rules, it is bad form to apologize, and undermines your enforcement. i'm a personnel mgr, and i speak from experience. if you F up, apologize immediately and sincerely. but never apologize if you are not the one who Fs up, because this only increases animosity.]

[madd futher mucker 36]

I agree with you that rules need to be copied pasted/ re-written etc whenever you move to a new site. That's fair. And i can take constructive criticism. But I will say this, nothing has ever, ever been ambiguous in our league. Regarding the current illegal roster situation, A) our roster rules were clearly displayed on our old site, and there have been at least three occasions where I copied and pasted sections of those by-laws on our msg board regarding other issues. Everyone knows our roster options -- in fact in year one we had lengthy discussions about how many RBs WRs starters should be allowed. So everyone is in the know. C) Since you care to pontificate about my incompetence Madd I'll agree with you again that there should be detailed rules/cosequences in writing and transfered to new sites. I wil say this, I'm actually the "interim commish," since the original commish bowed out at the midnight hour due to other personal responsibilities. I'm not using this as an excuse, but I've done my absolute best to roll with the situation, make the best of it, and be straight up and prompt with all the occasional bumps that come with moving to another site. I will put things expressly in print though. Thanks for the advice.

 

Thanks for all the input y'all. And hope you crushed your matchup this week! I need Braylon's sorry arse to get me three more lousy pts!

Cheers.

 

Sorry to "pontificate" so strongly. I assumed you had been commishioner of this league for quite a while, and one of my pet peeves are commishioners who 'wing it' with unwritten rules. Taking over as "interim Commsih is tough, so I was too hard on you, man. I apologize.

 

And given your explanation of the facts, you have every right (and need to) to make a strong ruling here enforcing the rules as they were KNOWN.. Best of luck with this.

[daredevil71 0]

Sorry to "pontificate" so strongly. I assumed you had been commishioner of this league for quite a while, and one of my pet peeves are commishioners who 'wing it' with unwritten rules. Taking over as "interim Commsih is tough, so I was too hard on you, man. I apologize.

 

And given your explanation of the facts, you have every right (and need to) to make a strong ruling here enforcing the rules as they were KNOWN.. Best of luck with this.

 

 

No worries dude! Its all good! Besides.................BRAYLON's back and I got a big W !

 

Seriously, tho, all the input is well taken including taking responsiblity for any time I dropped the ball (Not as bad as Dre Bly yesterday tho!) . We'll work things out.

 

Arent u the one posting the blog on your fantasy travails, btw? If so, strong work brother! Ive been reading and its good stuff.

 

[Ras66not99 0]

commishioners

 

Commissioner.....

 

sorry that was killing me, carry on...

[madd futher mucker 36]

Yea, "travails' is sure an appropriate word especially after this weekend - and especially for one who can't spell 'commissioner' - but then my excuse for that is - it is past my bedtime.

[daredevil71 0]

Yea, "travails' is sure an appropriate word especially after this weekend - and especially for one who can't spell 'commissioner' - but then my excuse for that is - it is past my bedtime.

 

 

that' why I love this bored.

[tbone138 6]

I say remove the point total from the highest player that could have been considered illegal. If they won without that, they should keep the win.

[dbell9 0]

I have my rules posted on the site for the incompetencies of the rules engine by my fantasy host. That way there is no excuse for an invalid roster. What I do is toss out the points for one of the illegal position and move on. So, they will not lose all their points, but will lose points for one of the positions.

[IAMWood 6]

I say remove the point total from the highest player that could have been considered illegal. If they won without that, they should keep the win.

 

Yeah, most logical here. and they get a zero for the non start defense. No brainer.

 

[Boston Three Party 6]

Hello MFL - calling CBS!

 

If it's not in writing and you can DO IT, then it's your own damn fault.

 

On MFL if you don't run with a DEF and you still win, you still win the game. But my parameters don't allow for those roster changes. So that's on the commissar.

 

Also, if you're allowed to make those changes in your lineup, why use a DEF at all?

 

You can't reverse it unless its in writing, if its common knowledge - then you're screwed.