southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 for what it's worth... 1 Rodgers, Aaron GB 4 116.2 29.04 2 Brees, Drew NO 3 86.9 28.98 3 Brady, Tom NE 4 105.8 26.45 4 Ryan, Matt ATL 4 95.7 23.93 5 Stafford, Matt DET 3 69.4 23.13 6 Romo, Tony DAL 4 92.3 23.06 7 Newton, Cam CAR 3 66.5 22.17 8 Rivers, Philip SD 4 86.8 21.69 9 Manning, Eli NYG 4 86.5 21.61 10 Dalton, Andy CIN 4 80.4 20.1 11 Palmer, Carson OAK 4 79.8 19.95 12 Tebow, Tim DEN 4 79.6 19.9 These are the last 4 weeks, where Tebow ranks 12th in points per game. Calling him a good start is a marginal call at best. If you have one of the 6 or 8 top QBs then sure Tebow isnt a good option, but some of us have been making up for falling for the Josh Freeman hype all season, and Timmy Magnificent has been a useful piece at times filling that position. And as his Denver teamates get more adept at running that sh8tshow offense they are cobbling together with chickenwire and duct tape, Tebow should only get less and less horrible, making him more and more useful. Or at least thats how i am looking at it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 Did you even see the stats above? Tebow isn't an automatic starter, even in 12 team leagues. He's freakin 12th in pts scored in the last 4 weeks and there's no way I'm going to automatically start him over someone who ranks at the end of the top 10, maybe even with a good matchup. This. And imagine if it's a league that rewards PASSING. lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 30, 2011 My league rewards passing more than rushing for a QB. So if a QB runs for 60 yards and a TD, how many points is that in your league? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 Unless you have Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Stafford, or Cam Newton on your team then Tebow can probably start for you. Or at least make you think about it. This is the bottom line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 In my league which is pretty standard scoring Tebow's scored: 25, 14, 30, 18, 16, and 17 points in his six starts. Unless you have Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Stafford, or Cam Newton on your team then Tebow can probably start for you. Or at least make you think about it. He's been rather consistent. I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. I'll tell you this much. As a Phlip Rivers owner, I'd wish I'd been starting Tebow over Rivers the past six weeks. I might have a another win under my belt. In my league, he is ranked 28th overall. So, like I said, depending on your league's scoring settings and your roster depth, he is not a good add. So far, nobody is touching him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted November 30, 2011 This. And imagine if it's a league that rewards PASSING. lol. Yeah, I don't get it. Most leagues are 1pt/25 yds. I've played in a couple that are 1pt/20 yrds. It's not that big a difference. However, I can't imagine a league where rushing yrds are counted differently by position, where RB's would get 1pt/10yds and other positions would get less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 So if a QB runs for 60 yards and a TD, how many points is that in your league? 10. QB's only get 4 pts for a TD of any kind and it's a ppr league. That can add to a heavy passing attack. Just sayin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 In my league, he is ranked 28th overall. So, like I said, depending on your league's scoring settings and your roster depth, he is not a good add. So far, nobody is touching him. Do QBs just get no credit at all for running in your league? 28th seems really low. EDIT: Already answered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted November 30, 2011 This is the bottom line. No, it's not. There are eleven, ELEVEN, other QB's over the last 4 weeks that are outscoring him. And less than 1 pt behind him per game is the unholy triumvarate of Grossman, Sanchez and Matt Moore...less than 1 freaking point behind him! His offense is a gimmick and with a few games under their belt to gameplan against it Defensive Coordinators are going to get wise to him. He's been relatively turnover free but the law of averages will catch up to him. The bubble is going to burst eventually. He's marginal now, he'll be less than marginal at somepoint. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 30, 2011 In my league, he is ranked 28th overall. So, like I said, depending on your league's scoring settings and your roster depth, he is not a good add. So far, nobody is touching him. Well yeah dummy, of course. He didn't even play the first 5 games of the season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 Do QBs just get no credit at all for running in your league? 28th seems really low. They get the same yardage rewards as RBs...PPR!!! + bonus rewards(400+passing, 40+yds pass completions). So why they heck would anyone start Tebow over other options in a scoring format as such? Although, I must say that I wish I could use him as a RB. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 30, 2011 No, it's not. There are eleven, ELEVEN, other QB's over the last 4 weeks that are outscoring him. And less than 1 pt behind him per game is the unholy triumvarate of Grossman, Sanchez and Matt Moore...less than 1 freaking point behind him! His offense is a gimmick and with a few games under their belt to gameplan against it Defensive Coordinators are going to get wise to him. He's been relatively turnover free but the law of averages will catch up to him. The bubble is going to burst eventually. He's marginal now, he'll be less than marginal at somepoint. Why are you just using 4 weeks? Is that because it gives you the results you want? After the aforementioned 'Stud' QB's there is a glutton of startable QB's in fantasy football. Tim Tebow is in that group of folks. Whether he's 6th, or 11th on 'your' list is irrelevant. If you own Phlip Rivers and Tim Tebow then every week you have a decisioin to make. If you own Palmer and Tebow then every week you have a decision to make. If you own Matt Ryan and Tebow then every week you have a decsion to make. It usually is based on matchups and which player is hot. Maybe Tebow doesn't start for you, but to discredit the fact that he's put up damn good fantasy numbers worhty of a starting nod in a twelve team league is simply absurd. Sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 Well yeah dummy, of course. He didn't even play the first 5 games of the season. Well, no duh...Geez, the rankings I listed are based on Season average, not season total. Nice reply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 No, it's not. There are eleven, ELEVEN, other QB's over the last 4 weeks that are outscoring him. And less than 1 pt behind him per game is the unholy triumvarate of Grossman, Sanchez and Matt Moore...less than 1 freaking point behind him! His offense is a gimmick and with a few games under their belt to gameplan against it Defensive Coordinators are going to get wise to him. He's been relatively turnover free but the law of averages will catch up to him. The bubble is going to burst eventually. He's marginal now, he'll be less than marginal at somepoint. What if you dont own any of those eleven QBs? And the flip side is he is only a point and a half away from being the #8 QB in your league. Im not saying that he should be a Never Bench Your Stud starter, im just saying if you are an owner with QB issues, you can do worse than starting the 12th best RB over the last 4 weeks as your QB. Look im a Gamecock fan, and i have an irrational burning hatred of a thousand suns for Tim Tebow. Cant stand him. But i'd start Charles Manson at QB if he was capable, and had a good matchup. So this week, with Carson Palmer's WR corps depleted, and with Josh Freeman doing his best Curtis Painter immitation, i'll roll with Tebow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 30, 2011 10. QB's only get 4 pts for a TD of any kind and it's a ppr league. That can add to a heavy passing attack. Just sayin. What does PPR have to do with QB's? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 Why are you just using 4 weeks? Is that because it gives you the results you want? Probably for the same reason i am....4 weeks is the only option Yahoo will sort their stats to...... :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 What does PPR have to do with QB's? Getting a point per reception...You do understand that right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 30, 2011 Getting a point per reception...You do understand that right? Why does that matter to a QB's fantasy scoring? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted November 30, 2011 Why are you just using 4 weeks? Is that because it gives you the results you want? After the aforementioned 'Stud' QB's there is a glutton of startable QB's in fantasy football. Tim Tebow is in that group of folks. Whether he's 6th, or 11th on 'your' list is irrelevant. If you own Phlip Rivers and Tim Tebow then every week you have a decisioin to make. If you own Palmer and Tebow then every week you have a decision to make. If you own Matt Ryan and Tebow then every week you have a decsion to make. It usually is based on matchups and which player is hot. Maybe Tebow doesn't start for you, but to discredit the fact that he's put up damn good fantasy numbers worhty of a starting nod in a twelve team league is simply absurd. Sorry. Except no one is saying any of that. My beef with some of the responses is that Tebow isn't an automatic starter, because people are saying he is. Most people are under the mistaken idea that he's a top scorer, he's not. The data I had in front of me went back exactly 4 week. If you'd like to include the two weeks prior to that, when he actually got the gig, then you are MORE than welcome to throw in the 4 point crapass game he put up against Detroit. In fact his average will drop thanks to your logic. I like the kid and he's a good role model thus far and I'm glad to see his team succeeding on the field. However, I will still contend that they're winning somewhat in spite of him rather than because of him. He has played VERY well for the most part to finish out games, but it's his TEAM that's giving him the chance by carrying his ass for 3 1/2 quarters, particularly the defense. They're dead men walking if they get behind big and he has to pass his way out of it. See Detroit v Denver in Week 8 for details. HTH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 They get the same yardage rewards as RBs...PPR!!! + bonus rewards(400+passing, 40+yds pass completions). So why they heck would anyone start Tebow over other options in a scoring format as such? Although, I must say that I wish I could use him as a RB. lol Are you saying he gets a point per completion? My son plays in a league like that and the points QBs score are crazy...70, 80, 90 pts a game sometimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 30, 2011 Are you saying he gets a point per completion? My son plays in a league like that and the points QBs score are crazy...70, 80, 90 pts a game sometimes. Aaah, I guess I'm confused with this person because he plays in some weird scoring league where the QB actually gets a point when the WR gets a reception. Shouldn't that be PPC (point per completeion) anyway? I don't play in absurd leagues like that so this is foreign to me. Are FG's worth like 20 points and you get a point for endzone dancing too in his league? Jimmy Grahamn just dunked the football over the goal posts after a TD. 2 points for my team!@#! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 Except no one is saying any of that. My beef with some of the responses is that Tebow isn't an automatic starter, because people are saying he is. Most people are under the mistaken idea that he's a top scorer, he's not. The data I had in front of me went back exactly 4 week. If you'd like to include the two weeks prior to that, when he actually got the gig, then you are MORE than welcome to throw in the 4 point crapass game he put up against Detroit. In fact his average will drop thanks to your logic. I like the kid and he's a good role model thus far and I'm glad to see his team succeeding on the field. However, I will still contend that they're winning somewhat in spite of him rather than because of him. He has played VERY well for the most part to finish out games, but it's his TEAM that's giving him the chance by carrying his ass for 3 1/2 quarters, particularly the defense. They're dead men walking if they get behind big and he has to pass his way out of it. See Detroit v Denver in Week 8 for details. HTH. I think you , me and KSB are basically saying the same thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 Why does that matter to a QB's fantasy scoring? Because it applies to QB's too. 1 point per reception is big points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 Aaah, I guess I'm confused with this person because he plays in some weird scoring league where the QB actually gets a point when the WR gets a reception. I don't play in absurd leagues so this is foreign to me. Are FG's worth like 20 points and you get a point for enzone dancing too in his league? No, all other scoring is pretty standard. What it does though is make it hard for players with the stud QBs to lose matchups. The top RB has scored 212 points, and the top QB has scored 843. In this league the very best RB is worth slightly less than Curtis Painter. Not surprisingly the top 4 seeds are the Brees, Rodgers, Brady and Romo owners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 30, 2011 Because it applies to QB's too. 1 point per reception is big points. When a QB throws to a WR the the WR gets a reception and a QB gets a COMPLETION numbnuts. Listen buddy, you are not going to be able to talk fantasy football on this board. The reason? Your league is absurd and nobody else but your 9 other buddies can relate. Your league scoring is so skewed that when you talk on here, it's apples to oranges to 99% of everybody else. You might as well simply log off and talk to yourself in the mirror. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 Because it applies to QB's too. 1 point per reception is big points. If you would say 1 point per completion it would make more sense. If you say a league is PPR, 99.9% of people are going to interpret that as a point per reception. QBs dont get receptions, so its confusing to say it that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 Aaah, I guess I'm confused with this person because he plays in some weird scoring league where the QB actually gets a point when the WR gets a reception. Shouldn't that be PPC (point per completeion) anyway? I don't play in absurd leagues like that so this is foreign to me. Are FG's worth like 20 points and you get a point for endzone dancing too in his league? Jimmy Grahamn just dunked the football over the goal posts after a TD. 2 points for my team!@#! LOL. While it rewards passing, completions, bonuses for yardage, etc. We also lose points for ints, fumbles, and pick 6's(a minus 6 for the QB if that happens). So far this season, there has only been one monstrous game nearing 80pts....A good week from a QB is generally about 40 but even less than that you can win your match with the performance of the rest of your team. Since we play with 6 IDPs, the defensive scoring is about equal to your offense over all. And Kickers are usually your lowest scoring player on you team. Nobody in the league complains. They understand the scoring and have the options not to join if they wish not to play. This league has been rolling for 7 years now with some minor adjustments for scoring after it was approved by the group. The feedback from the managers has been very positive because it is different, challenging and more fun than your standard league(this opinion is based on the feedback I have gotten, BTW). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 If you would say 1 point per completion it would make more sense. If you say a league is PPR, 99.9% of people are going to interpret that as a point per reception. QBs dont get receptions, so its confusing to say it that way. Apology here. I should learn not to post while multi-tasking. My mind has so much on it right now. Sincerely sorry for my brain fart. I do appreciate you not getting nasty and if I confused anyone here, once again, I am sorry for that. It wasn't intentional at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 LOL. While it rewards passing, completions, bonuses for yardage, etc. We also lose points for ints, fumbles, and pick 6's(a minus 6 for the QB if that happens). So far this season, there has only been one monstrous game nearing 80pts....A good week from a QB is generally about 40 but even less than that you can win your match with the performance of the rest of your team. Since we play with 6 IDPs, the defensive scoring is about equal to your offense over all. And Kickers are usually your lowest scoring player on you team. Nobody in the league complains. They understand the scoring and have the options not to join if they wish not to play. This league has been rolling for 7 years now with some minor adjustments for scoring after it was approved by the group. The feedback from the managers has been very positive because it is different, challenging and more fun than your standard league(this opinion is based on the feedback I have gotten, BTW). Thats all fine and if you are all happy with it, then great. Super for all of you. To each his own and everything. But when you play in a league with atypical scoring rules, (and believe me those are atypical rules) and you post this From a FF perspective, Tebow is an awful start. The guy is still sitting on the WW in my league and nobody will touch him. Are there people really using this guy as their starting QB? That we are talking about apples, and your experience is oranges. This is not a "FF perspective" Its a diomed perspective. Two totally different things. If this is going to be your lead in to this thread, at least qualify it with a cliffs notes of your scoring rules, instead of wasting an hour arguing a point that could have been clarified with one simple post. EDIT: Hey no fair being civil and all...i worked really hard on this post Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaintsInDome2006 441 Posted November 30, 2011 Tebow is going to have a big, big game one of these final four FF (including playoff) weeks. I am not saying to start him, but if he is on your roster keep him there because you don't want to be on the other end when he does go off for some team currently without Schaub or Vick or rolling with Campbell or such. Min. (week 13) & Buffalo (16) are two good bets. And NE's defense has been great FF-wise but it has given up some decent FF numbers for opponents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted November 30, 2011 LOL. While it rewards passing, completions, bonuses for yardage, etc. We also lose points for ints, fumbles, and pick 6's(a minus 6 for the QB if that happens). So far this season, there has only been one monstrous game nearing 80pts....A good week from a QB is generally about 40 but even less than that you can win your match with the performance of the rest of your team. Since we play with 6 IDPs, the defensive scoring is about equal to your offense over all. And Kickers are usually your lowest scoring player on you team. Nobody in the league complains. They understand the scoring and have the options not to join if they wish not to play. This league has been rolling for 7 years now with some minor adjustments for scoring after it was approved by the group. The feedback from the managers has been very positive because it is different, challenging and more fun than your standard league(this opinion is based on the feedback I have gotten, BTW). I think I would have a hard time in this league. In "standard" leagues, if you don't get a top draft pick (usually reserved for the top RB's) you can compensate for it by still getting a top QB or WR in the latter part of the round and another one in the early 2nd of snake drafts. However, scoring is so absurdly tilted in this league toward QB scoring that after the top QB's are gone the spread doubles. In a standard league (currently) the difference between QB1 and QB10 is about 50 pts. In this kind of league, it's well over 100 pts. That's an almost unsurmountable deficit in points and essentially hands the top 5 or 6 people drafting automatic playoff spots unless they dramatically screw up the rest of their roster or injuries happen. This so seriously devalues the other positions I don't know if I could stomach it. I'm not knocking the league, just amazed that people don't complain when they don't get a top draft pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonkbonk 5 Posted November 30, 2011 The last 6 weeks he has avg 18.54 ppg in my league. He well be my started from now till i win the superbowl. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southcarolina 166 Posted November 30, 2011 He well be my started from now till i win the superbowl. From your mouth to Teh Tebow's ears. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted November 30, 2011 This is a well written article about Tebow, and gave me pause to think about my comments. I'm still not a supporter/believer in the kid, but I hope he is successful. Link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diomed1 0 Posted November 30, 2011 I think I would have a hard time in this league. In "standard" leagues, if you don't get a top draft pick (usually reserved for the top RB's) you can compensate for it by still getting a top QB or WR in the latter part of the round and another one in the early 2nd of snake drafts. However, scoring is so absurdly tilted in this league toward QB scoring that after the top QB's are gone the spread doubles. In a standard league (currently) the difference between QB1 and QB10 is about 50 pts. In this kind of league, it's well over 100 pts. That's an almost unsurmountable deficit in points and essentially hands the top 5 or 6 people drafting automatic playoff spots unless they dramatically screw up the rest of their roster or injuries happen. This so seriously devalues the other positions I don't know if I could stomach it. I'm not knocking the league, just amazed that people don't complain when they don't get a top draft pick. I understand what you are getting at but, believe me, the IDPs usually score equally as well as the Offensive roster. They get 2 pts for a solo tackle, 1 for an assist, 5 for Sacks, Ints, and FF, 6 for any defensive TD as well as points for return yard after an int or FR(1 pt per 20 yds), 3pts for a safety, 4 pts for a tackle for a loss, 4 points for a blocked kick, and 2 for a pass defense. The top 10 scoring defensive players for the year so far range from 257-215 points very comparable to WRs and RBs. So even though you use 8 players on offense and only 6 on defense the IDPs still can make or break your season. I just beat the team with Rogers a couple weeks ago and that was largely because of my IDPs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted November 30, 2011 I understand what you are getting at but, believe me, the IDPs usually score equally as well as the Offensive roster. They get 2 pts for a solo tackle, 1 for an assist, 5 for Sacks, Ints, and FF, 6 for any defensive TD as well as points for return yard after an int or FR(1 pt per 20 yds), 3pts for a safety, 4 pts for a tackle for a loss, 4 points for a blocked kick, and 2 for a pass defense. The top 10 scoring defensive players for the year so far range from 257-215 points very comparable to WRs and RBs. So even though you use 8 players on offense and only 6 on defense the IDPs still can make or break your season. I just beat the team with Rogers a couple weeks ago and that was largely because of my IDPs. good lord, you guys must score 200-300 pts on a regular basis. even the BIG IDP/PPR/Heavy QB Pts league I'm rarely sees a score above 200. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boilermaker04 11 Posted December 1, 2011 for what it's worth... 1 Rodgers, Aaron GB 4 116.2 29.04 2 Brees, Drew NO 3 86.9 28.98 3 Brady, Tom NE 4 105.8 26.45 4 Ryan, Matt ATL 4 95.7 23.93 5 Stafford, Matt DET 3 69.4 23.13 6 Romo, Tony DAL 4 92.3 23.06 7 Newton, Cam CAR 3 66.5 22.17 8 Rivers, Philip SD 4 86.8 21.69 9 Manning, Eli NYG 4 86.5 21.61 10 Dalton, Andy CIN 4 80.4 20.1 11 Palmer, Carson OAK 4 79.8 19.95 12 Tebow, Tim DEN 4 79.6 19.9 These are the last 4 weeks, where Tebow ranks 12th in points per game. Calling him a good start is a marginal call at best. Where are you getting those numbers? This is what I see in FFToday default over the last 5 weeks: 1. Aaron Rodge GB 4 4 89 123 1,103 13 1 20 100 0 104.1 26.0 2. Tom Brady NE 5 5 117 184 1,464 12 2 11 45 0 103.1 20.6 3. Tony Romo DAL 5 5 105 163 1,270 11 3 9 18 0 90.6 18.1 4. Eli Manning NYG 5 5 128 206 1,580 9 5 10 16 0 88.8 17.8 5. Tim Tebow DEN 5 5 48 106 612 5 1 62 359 2 88.4 17.7 6. Drew Brees NO 4 4 111 161 1,212 9 3 3 27 1 87.2 21.8 7. Matt Ryan ATL 4 4 92 142 1,204 9 2 13 15 0 81.7 20.4 8. Cam Newton CAR 4 4 87 140 990 4 5 29 198 3 79.4 19.9 9. Philip River SD 5 5 115 201 1,496 9 8 6 5 0 76.3 15.3 10. Matthew Sta DET 4 4 114 174 1,207 10 9 11 55 0 75.8 18.9 11. Andy Dalton CIN 5 5 100 174 1,198 9 7 15 62 0 74.1 14.8 12. Matt Moore MIA 5 5 83 126 1,039 7 2 17 53 1 72.9 14.6 13. Joe Flacco BAL 5 5 120 200 1,322 5 3 15 23 0 65.2 13.0 points per game is 8th, yeah, but either way that seems like a must start to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kutulu 1,676 Posted December 1, 2011 Cold Hard Football Facts on :tebow: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted December 1, 2011 Where are you getting those numbers? This is what I see in FFToday default over the last 5 weeks: points per game is 8th, yeah, but either way that seems like a must start to me another website who's name we do not speak... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted December 1, 2011 Cold Hard Football Facts on :tebow: i read this and it gave me pause for thought...but i still contend that DC's are gonna catch up to the oddball offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites