How are Dems claiming this as "balanced" approach to the fiscal cliff?

[The Moz 71]

It seems like 100% what Dems want is a balanced approach. Obama wants double the increase he supposedly wanted when running for office on taxes for 250K and up , wants an unlimited debt ceiling, and other powers he can just do himself without asking congress. This is what is Balanced to democrats - and they can't believe the Right is saying fock you. The GOP send a proposal basically what Obama was said to want when running and Obama basically goes NO! I want everything I want and fock you until I get it.

 

Can anyone explain how raising taxes 1.6 Bil over 10 years and giving the POTUS broad powers

A. does anything but hurt job creation

B. Does anything to battle the national debt on a serious level

C. How raising the debt ceiling does anything more than get us further in debt

D. How does raising taxes in a bad economy do anything but hurt the economy

 

I am now officially rooting for the Cliff as Obama will go down as one of the worst POTUS we have had and theres no way a DEm will win in 16' as well as the GOP taking control of both houses in 14' -- maybe this will also spur on "meaningful" economic change to slash entitlements, drastically cut spending and increase revenue by other ways than taxing until the economy is better - THEN you can raise taxes.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Two articles here on this subject that explains it pretty well.

 

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=414163

[The Moz 71]

We are going over the cliff and Obama has no one to blame but himself - as He was un-willng to compromise an inch on what he wanted.

[NewbieJr 541]

He is absolutely refusing to do any compromising until taxes are raised on the wealthy. Good for him. He promised to stand up for the middle class and he's doing just that.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

He is absolutely refusing to do any compromising until taxes are raised on the wealthy. Good for him. He promised to stand up for the middle class and he's doing just that.

The GOP proposal has $800 Billion in higher taxes on the rich, Ducky.

[DankNuggs 305]

He is absolutely refusing to do any compromising until taxes are raised on the wealthy. Good for him. He promised to stand up for the middle class and he's doing just that.

Sounds like a pretty poor way to get the compromise he needs to solve the problem... Also sounds like a way to continue to depress the economy that disproportionately hurts the middle class. Those taxes aren't going to help the middle class, they are going to the lower class to fund UE bene's and continue the HC ponzi scheme...

 

 

He is who we thought he was... A bait and switch snake oil salesman...

[NewbieJr 541]

Sounds like a pretty poor way to get the compromise he needs to solve the problem... Also sounds like a way to continue to depress the economy that disproportionately hurts the middle class. Those taxes aren't going to help the middle class, they are going to the lower class to fund UE bene's and continue the HC ponzi scheme...

 

 

He is who we thought he was... A bait and switch snake oil salesman...

He's promised to raise the taxes on the 1% since first campaigning back in 2008. He's not bait and switching anything. It just might finally get done. LONG overdue.

 

It's so refreshing to see a politician who isn't afraid to go after the filthy rich. I love this country.

[DankNuggs 305]

He's promised to raise the taxes on the 1% since first campaigning back in 2008. He's not bait and switching anything. It just might finally get done. LONG overdue.

 

It's so refreshing to see a politician who isn't afraid to go after the filthy rich. I love this country.

He promised a balanced approach. He has presented a starkly unbalanced approach with 4:1 taxes over spending cuts, and 50% of his spending cuts offset by new .gov spending... Its a non starter, just like his non starter 'budget'... Letting liberals control purse strings is like letting a teenage girl handle a credit card...

 

The outcome of this is going over the cliff, and us middle classers getting a swift kick to the junk with all kinds of higher taxes...

[Frank M 181]

Sounds like a pretty poor way to get the compromise he needs to solve the problem... Also sounds like a way to continue to depress the economy that disproportionately hurts the middle class. Those taxes aren't going to help the middle class, they are going to the lower class to fund UE bene's and continue the HC ponzi scheme...

 

 

He is who we thought he was... A bait and switch snake oil salesman...

 

He ran and won on a platform of raising taxes on the wealthy. Polls show consistent support for raising taxes on the wealthy. Republicans are trying to get something passed that doesn't include raising taxes on the wealthy.

 

How exactly is this a bait and switch?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

He ran and won on a platform of raising taxes on the wealthy. Polls show consistent support for raising taxes on the wealthy. Republicans are trying to get something passed that doesn't include raising taxes on the wealthy.

 

How exactly is this a bait and switch?

 

The Republican proposal just released has $800 Billion in higher taxes on the wealthy. You really should branch out from the Obama talking points.

[DankNuggs 305]

He ran and won on a platform of raising taxes on the wealthy. Polls show consistent support for raising taxes on the wealthy. Republicans are trying to get something passed that doesn't include raising taxes on the wealthy.

 

How exactly is this a bait and switch?

He ran on a balanced approach, not a raise taxes and raise .gov spending... He'd have lost handily if he had run on that... Its a non starter and zero chance of a deal... Thats what happens when you elect weak leadership that doesn't have the capability to get things done...

[DankNuggs 305]

The Republican proposal just released has $800 Billion in higher taxes on the wealthy. You really should branch out from the Obama talking points.

Its really funny, they about loopholes, then declare that loopholes are irrelevant. Bait. Switch.

[Frank M 181]

The Republican proposal just released has $800 Billion in higher taxes on the wealthy. You really should branch out from the Obama talking points.

 

I read the proposal. Obviously Obama thinks closing loopholes and limiting deductions isn't enough. Neither do a majority of people polled. Republicans catering to the minority will be the reason we go over the cliff.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I read the proposal. Obviously Obama thinks closing loopholes and limiting deductions isn't enough. Neither do a majority of people polled. Republicans catering to the minority will be the reason we go over the cliff.

 

Maybe that's why they balanced them with spending cuts and entitlement reform. Obama is 100% higher taxes with the promise to cut spending and reform entitlements down the road.......2017 no doubt.

 

You are a rube.

[DankNuggs 305]

I read the proposal. Obviously Obama thinks closing loopholes and limiting deductions isn't enough. Neither do a majority of people polled. Republicans catering to the minority will be the reason we go over the cliff.

ok, well tell the people where you plan to cut... Both sides are willing to raise taxes if the deal is right IMO... They aren't going to raise taxes and raise spending... Where are the cuts? I've heard absolutely zero, while i hear 24/7 about raising taxes... The revenues will return with the economy, thats the best way to raise revenue... Raising rates is more politics than finance, its 18% of the problem... No talk of the 82%

[Frank M 181]

He ran on a balanced approach, not a raise taxes and raise .gov spending... He'd have lost handily if he had run on that... Its a non starter and zero chance of a deal... Thats what happens when you elect weak leadership that doesn't have the capability to get things done...

 

His plan raises $1.6 trillion in new taxes and contains $600 billion in spending cuts.

 

[DankNuggs 305]

Republicans catering to the minority will be the reason we go over the cliff.

the cliff cuts some spending, its a better option than making the deficit worse at this point given the lack of leadership...

[DankNuggs 305]

His plan raises $1.6 trillion in new taxes and contains $600 billion in spending cuts.

 

400 in cuts and 200 in new spending including 50 bil in next year for stimulus is what i've read a few diff places...

[Recliner Pilot 61]

His plan raises $1.6 trillion in new taxes and contains $600 billion in spending cuts.

 

 

 

The president demands a $1.6 trillion tax increase over the next decade. He maintains that higher revenues must come from marginal-rate increases but offers no policy rationale. He wants to treat $900 billion in spending cuts he agreed to in 2011 (as part of the Budget Control Act) as if they now count on his ledger as new cuts. He says that he will consider Medicare cuts and tax reform in the future, maybe.

 

http://online.wsj.co...3895217834.html

[Frank M 181]

Maybe that's why they balanced them with spending cuts and entitlement reform. Obama is 100% higher taxes with the promise to cut spending and reform entitlements down the road.......2017 no doubt.

 

You are a rube.

 

Face facts. Obama won on this platform. He has no reason to cede ground. Any Republican proposal that fails to raise rates on the wealthy will be dead in the water and Republicans will be blamed. Republicans know this. Hell, they just removed two Teabaggers from the budget committee to get them out of the way.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Any Republican proposal that fails to raise rates on the wealthy will be dead in the water and Republicans will be blamed.

 

 

What part of the Rep plan that raises taxes $800 Billion confuses you,Rube?

 

Obama already shot that down. The media will carry Obama's water on this, no doubt. But the FACT is they have proposed higher taxes balanced with spending cuts and entitlement reform. No amount of lies by Obama, repeated here by you, will change that fact.

[Frank M 181]

 

 

 

http://online.wsj.co...3895217834.html

 

Server not found

 

You suck at the internet. So you're saying that, like every other budget proposed by politicians, tricky accounting maneuvers are part of it.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that he has no reason to not raise taxes on the wealthy. There's absolutely no downside to him sticking to his guns.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

Not sure if you heard, but Obama won the election running on exactly what he is doing now. The people have spoken.

[DankNuggs 305]

Face facts. Obama won on this platform. He has no reason to cede ground. Any Republican proposal that fails to raise rates on the wealthy will be dead in the water and Republicans will be blamed. Republicans know this. Hell, they just removed two Teabaggers from the budget committee to get them out of the way.

No spending cuts, no care... Its irrelevant... Commies felt like Clinton tax rates were a fair share, they'll get to experience them... And since they pretend the Bush tax cuts were just for the wealthy, the can pretend they didn't pay more to .gov

[Frank M 181]

What part of the Rep plan that raises taxes $800 Billion confuses you,Rube?

 

Obama already shot that down. The media will carry Obama's water on this, no doubt. But the FACT is they have proposed higher taxes balanced with spending cuts and entitlement reform. No amount of lies by Obama, repeated here by you, will change that fact.

 

What lies am I repeating? He wants an increase in rates, not closing loopholes and limiting deductions. Until Republicans say "We agree to raising the tax rate on the richest americans to 39.6%", no deal will be done.

[DankNuggs 305]

Not sure if you heard, but Obama won the election running on exactly what he is doing now. The people have spoken.

are you deaf or crazy?

[Frank M 181]

No spending cuts, no care... Its irrelevant... Commies felt like Clinton tax rates were a fair share, they'll get to experience them... And since they pretend the Bush tax cuts were just for the wealthy, the can pretend they didn't pay more to .gov

 

 

I was wondering when the commie/socialist card would be pulled out. Never mind that what Obama is doing is what the people voted for and what they favor now, according to most polls.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

are you deaf or crazy?

 

I'm the crazy one? You guys are the ones who seem to have already forgotten about the major national election that took place one month ago.

 

You're either extremely forgetful or completely focking delusional.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

I was wondering when the commie/socialist card would be pulled out. Never mind that what Obama is doing is what the people voted for and what they favor now, according to most polls.

you struggle with a reasonable definition of balanced...

 

If his plan was raising taxes and spending, that has nothing to do with deficit control, its completely unrelated... So i don't understand how him doing something completely unrelated to what he was talking about is what people were voting for... Its bizarro world...

 

Now maybe you mean "we all know BHO was lying through his teeth through the election season and really just wants to jack taxes and spending like every other liberal whos gotten within 10ft of the federal purse strings" in that case i agree he is doing as EXPECTED... but not anywhere close to what he campaigned on and promised.

[DankNuggs 305]

I'm the crazy one? You guys are the ones who seem to have already forgotten about the major national election that took place one month ago.

 

You're either extremely forgetful or completely focking delusional.

I've conceded raising rates (although its an assinine plan that will backfire) only if there are balanced cuts like he promised... We learned there are no cuts, 'maybe in the future'... so

 

BAIT. SWITCH... Foolish liberals beleiving an election win gives them carte blanche for their lunacy... Thankfully congress is around to be the voice of the people.

[Frank M 181]

you struggle with a reasonable definition of balanced...

 

If his plan was raising taxes and spending, that has nothing to do with deficit control, its completely unrelated... So i don't understand how him doing something completely unrelated to what he was talking about is what people were voting for... Its bizarro world...

 

Now maybe you mean "we all know BHO was lying through his teeth through the election season and really just wants to jack taxes and spending like every other liberal whos gotten within 10ft of the federal purse strings" in that case i agree he is doing as EXPECTED... but not anywhere close to what he campaigned on and promised.

 

Did he not say "The rates on the wealthy will return to Clinton era levels"? Maybe you're just deaf.

[The Moz 71]

Obama didn't run on what he is proposing. He ran basically on what gop is offering. Now he wants to go way over that. Obama, won't budge unless he gets, everything he wants. He has nothing to run for now and won't care If we go over or not.

 

Again, someone tell me how getting 1.6 trillion in tax revenue over 10 years helps us with the debt that us 16 trillion, right now? Oh and Obama wants to be able to raise the debt ceiling whenever. Because its obvious you raise the debt ceiling because you want to lower debt right Lol.

 

Amazing Obama is an economic idiot yet people don't seem to care and are just so happy a dem is in office they will sing happy as their titanic goes down.

 

If you had a poll that said choose one or the other. a. Every person in America gets a 500 dollar check. Or b. The national debt is erased totally. Which one do you think gets, more votes?

I don't know if i am upset at, Obama s policies or just frustrated with the American state of mind right now.

[NewbieJr 541]

I'll break this down for Dank and RP and the other conservatives who aren't quite bright enough to fully understand.....Obama has claimed he'd raise the taxes on the greedy wealthy since he first started running in 2008. He's never wavered on that and continued stating the same for this election. In Novemeber, they had an election. The PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY decided they wanted Obama to be their leader. The very same guy that promised to raise the tax rate of the wealthy. That's what the people wanted and now our President is sticking to his guns and is insisting that it becomes fact. Maybe they'll have another election in four years where those opposed to that can run. In fact, I'm sure they will. But for now, Obama won and he's going to finally get done what should have been done a long, long time ago. And as a result, maybe some folks will only get to wax their yacht quarterly instead of monthly. Boo focking hoo.

[DankNuggs 305]

I'll break this down for Dank and RP and the other conservatives who aren't quite bright enough to fully understand.....Obama has claimed he'd raise the taxes on the greedy wealthy since he first started running in 2008. He's never wavered on that and continued stating the same for this election. In Novemeber, they had an election. The PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY decided they wanted Obama to be their leader. The very same guy that promised to raise the tax rate of the wealthy. That's what the people wanted and now our President is sticking to his guns and is insisting that it becomes fact. Maybe they'll have another election in four years where those opposed to that can run. In fact, I'm sure they will. But for now, Obama won and he's going to finally get done what should have been done a long, long time ago. And as a result, maybe some folks will only get to wax their yacht quarterly instead of monthly. Boo focking hoo.

Obama ran (and continues to tout) that he wants a BALANCED APPROACH... That means raising revenue and cutting spending in a balanced way... But now he's taken spending cuts off the table, and is raising spending.

 

 

liberals are acting like we elected a new dictator.... Its really crazy..

 

Without having a budget, the debt limit is the only thing to force any meaningful fiscal discussions (that SHOULD occur during the budgeting process)... Obama wants no budget in place and no limit on the amount of debt he can accumulate... LOL...

 

 

You can boo hoo all the way off the cliff

[DankNuggs 305]

 

If you had a poll that said choose one or the other. a. Every person in America gets a 500 dollar check. Or b. The national debt is erased totally. Which one do you think gets, more votes?

I don't know if i am upset at, Obama s policies or just frustrated with the American state of mind right now.

This is pretty interesting... I think the number would be higher, but your point would be proven anyways... Average debt per capita is $52k. I bet if it was a check for a few K it would probably win.

[Little Rusty 18]

How are Dems claiming this as "balanced" approach to the fiscal cliff?

 

With an unlimited credit / race card

[DankNuggs 305]

Obama Plans to Slash U.S. Budget Deficit by 2013 (Update1)

By Hans Nichols and Nadine Elsibai - February 22, 2009 14:52 EST

 

Feb. 22 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama plans to increase taxes on the wealthy and cut spending for the war in Iraq as part of a plan to slash the U.S. budget deficit to $533 billion by the end of his first term, according to an administration official.

 

Obama wants to reduce the deficit because he’s concerned that over time, federal borrowing will make it harder for the economy to grow and create jobs, said the official, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

 

The deficit Obama inherited on taking office last month was $1.3 trillion. The administration is scheduled to hold a so- called fiscal-responsibility summit at the White House tomorrow, with about 130 people invited, including about 50 members of the House and Senate from both parties. An overview of Obama’s budget proposal for the 2010 fiscal year, which begins Oct. 1, will be released Feb. 26.

 

“We have been on an incredible spending spree,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said today on CNN. “So I think it’s timely that the president’s having a meeting at the White House tomorrow to talk about the deficit because we’re spending money at a very, very rapid pace, far beyond anything in history.”

 

Most of the savings will be realized from increased revenue from Americans making more than $250,000 a year and winding down the war in Iraq, said the official. The New York Times said yesterday Obama will propose letting President George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy lapse in 2010.

 

Barbour Objections

 

“I don’t think there’s an economist in the United States that thinks when you’re trying to get out of a recession and to create jobs, you ought to raise taxes,” Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, a Republican, said on CNN’s “State of the Union” program today.

 

Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty, a Republican, said investors won’t respond well to an Obama administration plan for higher taxes. “Wait ‘til you see the markets’ reaction to what he unveils later this week,” he said.

 

Pennsylvania’s Democratic governor, Ed Rendell, appearing on “Fox News Sunday,” disagreed. The idea that “raising taxes on the richest people” will harm the economy is “rubbish and it ignores history,” he said.

 

‘Same Arguments’

 

“We heard these same arguments when Bill Clinton raised taxes on the top 2 percent of the richest people in America to get rid of the deficit,” Rendell said. “He got rid of the deficit. And guess what happened? We produced 24 million new jobs. We had the eight years that were the most successful in the second half economically of the 20th century.”

 

To increase revenue, Obama will also propose taxing the investment income of hedge-fund and private-equity partners at ordinary tax rates, which are now as high as 35 percent and may rise to 39.6 percent under the administration’s plan, the Times reported yesterday. They are currently taxed at the capital- gains rate of as much as 15 percent.

 

Obama promised during the campaign that he would slash federal programs that weren’t working. “The president has said he can’t kick the can down the road anymore,” Kenneth Baer, spokesman for the White House budget office, said last week.

 

The $1.3 trillion deficit Obama inherited equals 9.2 percent of gross domestic product, said the administration official. The administration’s budget proposal cuts the deficit to 3 percent of GDP by 2013, at the end of Obama’s first term.

 

Workers’ Paychecks

 

Obama yesterday talked about the importance of reining in the ballooning federal deficit in his weekly address. He said the Treasury Department will begin ordering employers today to cut taxes taken from workers’ paychecks as part of his effort to pull the economy out of a recession.

 

The president said a “typical” family will start getting at least an extra $65 a month by April 1 as a result of the $787 billion stimulus package he signed into law this week. He said the measure is only a “first step.”

 

The president has also pledged $275 billion to help struggling homeowners avoid foreclosure and plans to announce measures to stabilize banks. Companies from General Motors Corp. to Alcoa Inc. are slashing jobs and cutting production as the recession threatens to become the worst slump in the postwar era.

 

Falling Home Sales

 

Government reports this week are likely to show sales of new homes plunged to a record low in January while durable goods orders dropped for a sixth month, economists said.

 

A Feb. 26 Commerce Department report will show new-home sales fell to 324,000 on an annual basis, according to the median estimate of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. The same day, the department may report demand for goods meant to last several years dropped 2.5 percent.

 

A surge in foreclosures and plummeting demand for homes has depressed prices, sending the S&P/Case-Shiller 20-city home price index down 18.3 percent in December from a year earlier, according to a separate Bloomberg survey. Meanwhile, shrinking household worth pushed auto sales in January to the lowest level in more than 26 years, and factories are scaling back production as demand from consumers and businesses erodes.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aei7Fn0ISrwo&refer=news

[Phurfur 70]

He is absolutely refusing to do any compromising until taxes are raised on the wealthy. Good for him. He promised to stand up for the middle class and he's doing just that.

 

Eliminating the Bush Era Tax cuts for people making over $250,000 would raise $83 billion a year, enough to run the government for 8½ days.

 

How is raising taxes on the "wealthy" sticking up for the middle class?

 

Don't be afraid to see what you see.

[JTB 52]

Not sure if you heard, but Obama won the election running on exactly what he is doing now. The people have spoken.

 

 

Obama won on allowing illegals stay in this country and the ability for women to kill their fetus. Oh, along with continuing to give, give, give.

[DankNuggs 305]

Eliminating the Bush Era Tax cuts for people making over $250,000 would raise $83 billion a year, enough to run the government for 8½ days.

 

How is raising taxes on the "wealthy" sticking up for the middle class?

 

Don't be afraid to see what you see.

its being used to finance more unemployment benefits and giveaways... Definitely not going anywhere near the middle class. People in the middle class have job skills, when they get laid off they get another job, they don't sit in UE for 2 years then jump on disability for another 5....