does zach wilsons/jets give you 2020 joe burrow/cincy vibes?

[bobby heenan 60]

jets= prob not a good defense...prob going to be playing from behind....has some weapons in davis and moore...maybe mims too.....

jets arguably have a better offensive line..in fact they def do...so thats a plus...despite that they have no real pronounced running game

burrow was a heck of a guy to have on your bench last year and im guessing alot of guys ended up starting him at some point for a stretch.......wilson also has more ability to pick up some serious rushing yards 

 

anyone else feel like this is a situation that could be similar and produce similar, under the radar, results?

[polecatt 404]

Justin Herbert was the stand out rookie QB last season and was a bonafide QB1 from week 2 on.

Burrow was more of a streamer, but a decent one, while he lasted.

I could easily Zach Wilson having a similar start to Burrow, hopefully minus the injury.

I think if one guy is going to blow up and be a star, kind of like Herbert was last season, or Cam Newton was as a rookie, or even RG3, it will be Trey Lance, if the 49ers are smart enough to start him.

I think all the QBs in the first round could have streaming potential to say the least, once they get on the field. Wilson probably more than the others outside of Lance.

[bobby heenan 60]

1 minute ago, polecatt said:

Justin Herbert was the stand out rookie QB last season and was a bonafide QB1 from week 2 on.

Burrow was more of a streamer, but a decent one, while he lasted.

I could easily Zach Wilson having a similar start to Burrow, hopefully minus the injury.

I think if one guy is going to blow up and be a star, kind of like Herbert was last season, or Cam Newton was as a rookie, or even RG3, it will be Trey Lance, if the 49ers are smart enough to start him.

I think all the QBs in the first round could have streaming potential to say the least, once they get on the field. Wilson probably more than the others outside of Lance.

i def agree with you on lance....he could be huge...but i also see a better defense and a stronger running game than the jets have....which could put a damper on things...then again lance is dynamic enough to still get the job done with limited opps...plus im sure shannahan will have at least a few designed runs for him a game......i just see volume for wilson provided he isnt taking a beating back there...i could see him putting up the ball 40+ times a game like burrow seemed to be doing weekly....

i took lance in a 14 team 2 man keeper league as my backup and he could easily become my starter ....and could end up being a keeper next year at good cost...def bullish on lance....i just see wilson as that garbage time/come from behind guy that ends up putting up solid/passable #s for a starter....

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

36 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

jets= prob not a good defense...prob going to be playing from behind....has some weapons in davis and moore...maybe mims too.....

jets arguably have a better offensive line..in fact they def do...so thats a plus...despite that they have no real pronounced running game

burrow was a heck of a guy to have on your bench last year and im guessing alot of guys ended up starting him at some point for a stretch.......wilson also has more ability to pick up some serious rushing yards 

 

anyone else feel like this is a situation that could be similar and produce similar, under the radar, results?

No.  Jets don't have the surrounding talent that Burrow had.  Wilson has a much lower ceiling (this year - fantasy), than Burrow did last year.  I wouldn't even bother with Wilson this year unless you're in a 12-team 2QB league or keeper league.

[polecatt 404]

16 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

i def agree with you on lance....he could be huge...but i also see a better defense and a stronger running game than the jets have....which could put a damper on things...then again lance is dynamic enough to still get the job done with limited opps...plus im sure shannahan will have at least a few designed runs for him a game......i just see volume for wilson provided he isnt taking a beating back there...i could see him putting up the ball 40+ times a game like burrow seemed to be doing weekly....

i took lance in a 14 team 2 man keeper league as my backup and he could easily become my starter ....and could end up being a keeper next year at good cost...def bullish on lance....i just see wilson as that garbage time/come from behind guy that ends up putting up solid/passable #s for a starter....

Yeah, that's a good idea. I like to do the same sort of thing in my dynasty league. I picked Herbert late in my draft last season. He ended up as my starter as I got frustrated with Matt Ryan's inconsistency. Herbert's my starter going into this season.

I could see Zach Wilson having a similar sort of season. Putting up big garbage time numbers at least. He'll probably throw a few more picks than you would like, but potential big numbers otherwise. I think it's wise to try and find bargains with rookie QBs late in the draft. Especially keeper/dynasty leagues

I do know one thing. Never start a rookie QB against the Patriots. Belichick knows how to rattle them too well.

[bobby heenan 60]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No.  Jets don't have the surrounding talent that Burrow had.  Wilson has a much lower ceiling (this year - fantasy), than Burrow did last year.  I wouldn't even bother with Wilson this year unless you're in a 12-team 2QB league or keeper league.

what do you mean...? id venture to say corey davis, crowder, elijah moore and maybe even mims is as talented as the crop that burrow had last year with higgins and boyd.......i mean mixon is more talented than any back on the jets by far imo....but the left side of wilsons offensive line is better than the whole one that burrow had last year lol...granted the right side of the jets offensive line is a big question mark but the left side is def solid to potentially dominant

[jrokh 569]

Burrow was a polished QB who won a Championship out of the SEC. Wilson looks like a kid and came out of BYU. He obviously has talent, but the Jets haven’t developed a star QB since Namath?

[bobby heenan 60]

2 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Yeah, that's a good idea. I like to do the same sort of thing in my dynasty league. I picked Herbert late in my draft last season. He ended up as my starter as I got frustrated with Matt Ryan's inconsistency. Herbert's my starter going into this season.

I could see Zach Wilson having a similar sort of season. Putting up big garbage time numbers at least. He'll probably throw a few more picks than you would like, but potential big numbers otherwise. I think it's wise to try and find bargains with rookie QBs late in the draft. Especially keeper/dynasty leagues

I do know one thing. Never start a rookie QB against the Patriots. Belichick knows how to rattle them too well.

lifelong pats fan/season ticket holder.....you dont have to tell me! lol

[bobby heenan 60]

Just now, jrokh said:

Burrow was a polished QB who won a Championship out of the SEC. Wilson looks like a kid and came out of BYU. He obviously has talent, but the Jets haven’t developed a star QB since Namath?

that kind of bias is just nonsense garbage.....thats like saying "i wont draft a penn st running back no matter how good i think he is because of ki jana carter and curtis enis and whomever else".....im not saying wilson is going to be great or anything.....but youre comparing many jets regimes/coaching staffs....they arent all the same......i just think wilson could end up putting some garbage time fantasy #s is all im saying.....but saying something cant happen because its been awhile is kinda wild to me....everything is unprecedented till it happens for the firs ttime....how many star qbs did the patriots develop before brady became the greatest of all time?

[bobby heenan 60]

10 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Burrow was a polished QB who won a Championship out of the SEC. Wilson looks like a kid and came out of BYU. He obviously has talent, but the Jets haven’t developed a star QB since Namath?

alabama hasnt produced a star nfl qb since joe namath! lets take tua, hurts and mac jones off our draft boards! lol

burrow also couldnt beat out dwayne haskins and jt barrett at thee ohio state university.

[jrokh 569]

Where did I say it can’t happen? Of course it can happen. As fantasy players we make educated guesses. Comparing Burrow and his situation to Wilson is nonsense. But hey go draft him, enjoy 

[bobby heenan 60]

4 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Where did I say it can’t happen? Of course it can happen. As fantasy players we make educated guesses. Comparing Burrow and his situation to Wilson is nonsense. But hey go draft him, enjoy 

how is comparing the two "nonsense""...wilson is likely to start...so both prob starting rookie year.....both on bad teams likely.....with bad defenses.....likely playing from behind alot...wilso arguably has a better offensive line and likely the same amount of weapons

the only thing different is the level of comp faced in college...which, i dunno if youve noticed....but nfl front offices are starting to care less and less about....they no longer care about the level of comp or even if you wont alot....ie wilson/josh allen......its about arm talent and your ability to process quickly...also doesnt hurt if you can extend plays a little....

the same argument you are using for burrow has been used against guys too..like burrow and mac jones...and tua and hurts "hes surrounded by so much talent...so much superior talent that he may not be as good as he looks....its easy for him with all that receiving talent like ruggs, jeudy, waddle and smith...".....

my guess is that wilson will put up respectable, maybe even startable, fantasy points this year on a semi regular basis....not that hes going to win MVP this year

[jrokh 569]

Are you a Jets fan?

[bobby heenan 60]

1 minute ago, jrokh said:

Are you a Jets fan?

i am not..im a lifelong patriots fan/season ticket holder who has been to a couple of superbowls...im the exact opposite lol....i am however going to the jets/pats game at met life in week 2 with my gf and her family(they are jets fans lol)

[jrokh 569]

Cool. I hope you draft and start Wilson for that game. Let me know how it worked out for you…

[bobby heenan 60]

1 minute ago, jrokh said:

Cool. I hope you draft and start Wilson for that game. Let me know how it worked out for you…

lol...i never even came close to saying "draft wilson as your starter....and youll def want to start him the first few weeks"....did anyone draft burrow last year(even at all) and start him out of the gate? lol......i cant continue this conversation with you because its apparent youre kind of a dolt.....what im saying is flying over your head.....you think im touting this guy has someone to draft as your starter and "you will be all set"...lol....not even close and the fact hat you cant see that is startling

[jrokh 569]

Ok I’ll dumb it down for you. Your thread title question:The answer is NO…

[bobby heenan 60]

Just now, jrokh said:

Ok I’ll dumb it down for you. Your thread title question:The answer is NO…

youve dumbed up this post enough already....no question.....youre only point is "well burrow played at lsu and wilson played at byu...so NO"....lol

i didnt say to draft wilson as your starter...but hes a guy that could be had real late to put on your bench...or maybe even off waivers....that could provide some good insurance as he could put up garbage time numbers with volume.....remember 2015 when blake bortles throw for like 4400 yards and 35 tds for a 5 win team? i do because i won a high stakes league that year with him finishing the year as my starter.....burrow was also putting up volume and doing pretty well although his td passing #s werent good.....

 

also which 1st round rookie qb, right now, are you sure will be starting from day one? that you can say definitley? id say wilson is about the only one we can guarantee right now

 

you are a dolt...you dont provide anything of substance....its obvious you are from cleveland

[weepaws 2,497]

Avoid all Jets, Texans , and Lions , that’s a winning move.  This is when paying attention to preseason games is a bad thing , last season that wasn’t a problem. 

 

Thanks. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

6 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

what do you mean...? id venture to say corey davis, crowder, elijah moore and maybe even mims is as talented as the crop that burrow had last year with higgins and boyd.......i mean mixon is more talented than any back on the jets by far imo....but the left side of wilsons offensive line is better than the whole one that burrow had last year lol...granted the right side of the jets offensive line is a big question mark but the left side is def solid to potentially dominant

Corey Davis can't stay on the field, even when he is on the field, he's over rated.   Crowder is an "ok" player, never more than a NFL WR3.  IF (a big "IF"), Moore is a NFL WR1, Wilson will have a shot - I'm willing to wager that he's at best, a decent #2... and probably won't even be that this year.  Maybe in a year or 2.  Mims looks to be "ok", but I'd like to see him stay healthy for a season before going too far.  There's no WR on this roster that "commands" attention.  They all can be game planned out.

Boyd is a legit WR1 in the NFL.  Is he great?  No, but he's definitely solid.  Crowder's career average season is 70 receptions for 800 yards and 5 TD's... last year, Green got 47/520/2.  I'd say that's only a "slight" upgrade.  Yeah, Higgins was a rookie last year, like Moore this year, but let's face it, the Bengals - despite sucking for a long time - have historically been good at drafting WR's... the Jets, not so much.

Lastly, Burrow was an elite talent.  Wilson is not.  I think he'll be a "serviceable" NFL QB.  I think the Jets overrated him just like the scouts.  It's funny though, because I can see Burrow being the next David Carr.  The OLine is so terrible that they're going to get him killed.  I mean, they did last year and for some reason, they didn't even improve the line this year.  I think Burrow's out of the league before his rookie contract is up... if the Bengals keep going the way they are with that line.

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

29 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

alabama hasnt produced a star nfl qb since joe namath! lets take tua, hurts and mac jones off our draft boards! lol

burrow also couldnt beat out dwayne haskins and jt barrett at thee ohio state university.

Russell Wilson couldn't beat out Mike Glennon at NC State.

[bobby heenan 60]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Russell Wilson couldn't beat out Mike Glennon at NC State.

thats incorrect...go back and understand the history...its because wilson wantd to play baseball and the coach wanted him there for spring practices....he caused a riff which caused him to transfer....

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

1 minute ago, bobby heenan said:

thats incorrect...go back and understand the history...its because wilson wantd to play baseball and the coach wanted him there for spring practices....he caused a riff which caused him to transfer....

I'll believe you.  I don't care enough to look.

[bobby heenan 60]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Corey Davis can't stay on the field, even when he is on the field, he's over rated.   Crowder is an "ok" player, never more than a NFL WR3.  IF (a big "IF"), Moore is a NFL WR1, Wilson will have a shot - I'm willing to wager that he's at best, a decent #2... and probably won't even be that this year.  Maybe in a year or 2.  Mims looks to be "ok", but I'd like to see him stay healthy for a season before going too far.  There's no WR on this roster that "commands" attention.  They all can be game planned out.

Boyd is a legit WR1 in the NFL.  Is he great?  No, but he's definitely solid.  Crowder's career average season is 70 receptions for 800 yards and 5 TD's... last year, Green got 47/520/2.  I'd say that's only a "slight" upgrade.  Yeah, Higgins was a rookie last year, like Moore this year, but let's face it, the Bengals - despite sucking for a long time - have historically been good at drafting WR's... the Jets, not so much.

Lastly, Burrow was an elite talent.  Wilson is not.  I think he'll be a "serviceable" NFL QB.  I think the Jets overrated him just like the scouts.  It's funny though, because I can see Burrow being the next David Carr.  The OLine is so terrible that they're going to get him killed.  I mean, they did last year and for some reason, they didn't even improve the line this year.  I think Burrow's out of the league before his rookie contract is up... if the Bengals keep going the way they are with that line.

i agree...boyd is underrated....and im bullish on higgins as hes on one of my high stakes teams...i had him last year and loved what i saw..in fact last year i had boyd and higgins in that league....

 

the bengals did take jackson carman,  a college tackle, in the 2nd round...hes from ohio area i believe...theyll play him at guard as they signed riley reiff who is a veteran with pedigree...also former 1st rounder jonah williams is still there and hes only played 10 games in 2 years but if he improves combined with reiff and carman they def updgraded...dont know how you cant stay they did nothing there...they did

[bobby heenan 60]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'll believe you.  I don't care enough to look.

"He told me I wasn’t coming back,” Wilson recalled in 2016 of the call he had with O’Brien. He told the story during a commencement speech he delivered at the University of Wisconsin, where he transferred and played for one season after leaving N.C. State. The rift between Wilson and O’Brien was the result of the quarterback’s busy schedule as a two-sport athlete. In January 2011, Wilson announced that he’d report to spring training with the Colorado Rockies, less than a year after the club selected the second baseman in the fourth round of the 2010 MLB draft. With Wilson missing spring football practices for baseball, O’Brien decided to take the program in another direction with Glennon. That meant Wilson spent his final season of college eligibility in Madison, Wisconsin, where he led the Badgers to a Big Ten Conference title, an appearance in the Rose Bowl and set a single-season record for passing efficiency, with the highest quarterback rating (191.8) in NCAA history (Oklahoma quarterback Baker Mayfield surpassed Wilson’s mark in 2016.)

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

2 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

i agree...boyd is underrated....and im bullish on higgins as hes on one of my high stakes teams...i had him last year and loved what i saw..in fact last year i had boyd and higgins in that league....

 

the bengals did take jackson carman,  a college tackle, in the 2nd round...hes from ohio area i believe...theyll play him at guard as they signed riley reiff who is a veteran with pedigree...also former 1st rounder jonah williams is still there and hes only played 10 games in 2 years but if he improves combined with reiff and carman they def updgraded...dont know how you cant stay they did nothing there...they did

Bengals - 2020, ranked 30th

Bengals - 2021, ranked 25th

Just because you don't suck beyond belief, it doesn't mean you don't suck.  Saying they improved is like saying "I just bought a brand new Pinto".

[bobby heenan 60]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Bengals - 2020, ranked 30th

Bengals - 2021, ranked 25th

Just because you don't suck beyond belief, it doesn't mean you don't suck.  Saying they improved is like saying "I just bought a brand new Pinto".

whether they are good enough or not this year i dont know...they def took steps to improve it though...thats not really up for debate...you said they didnt...they did......although im def in the group that would have said they should have gone for sewell or a tackle over chase....wouldnt argue that...would have been the smart move imo

[jrokh 569]

19 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

you are a dolt...you dont provide anything of substance....its obvious you are from cleveland

Actually I was born in Boston and grew up in NJ, but other than that you are spot on. As for being a dolt, says the masshole with a wrestling heel user name. Irony is pretty Ironic sometimes....

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

4 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

"He told me I wasn’t coming back,” Wilson recalled in 2016 of the call he had with O’Brien. He told the story during a commencement speech he delivered at the University of Wisconsin, where he transferred and played for one season after leaving N.C. State. The rift between Wilson and O’Brien was the result of the quarterback’s busy schedule as a two-sport athlete. In January 2011, Wilson announced that he’d report to spring training with the Colorado Rockies, less than a year after the club selected the second baseman in the fourth round of the 2010 MLB draft. With Wilson missing spring football practices for baseball, O’Brien decided to take the program in another direction with Glennon. That meant Wilson spent his final season of college eligibility in Madison, Wisconsin, where he led the Badgers to a Big Ten Conference title, an appearance in the Rose Bowl and set a single-season record for passing efficiency, with the highest quarterback rating (191.8) in NCAA history (Oklahoma quarterback Baker Mayfield surpassed Wilson’s mark in 2016.)

Your source is Russell Wilson?  Hmmm... when was the last time someone said, "yeah, I stunk, that's why I lost my job." 

[bobby heenan 60]

Just now, jrokh said:

Actually I was born in Boston and grew up in NJ, but other than that you are spot on. As for being a dolt, says the masshole with a wrestling heel user name. Irony is pretty Ironic sometimes....

i dont live in mass and i never have....the boston/nj combo explains it even more! lol...although my gf is from NJ and shes pretty cool...

so far all ive seen from you from an argument perspective is " wilson played at byu, looks like a kid and the jets havent produced a qb since namath"...you gotta give me more than that chief

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

3 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

whether they are good enough or not this year i dont know...they def took steps to improve it though...thats not really up for debate...you said they didnt...they did......although im def in the group that would have said they should have gone for sewell or a tackle over chase....wouldnt argue that...would have been the smart move imo

Sounds good.  I'm convinced!

[bobby heenan 60]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Your source is Russell Wilson?  Hmmm... when was the last time someone said, "yeah, I stunk, that's why I lost my job." 

the source isnt just wilson...if you dig you can find several stories written about it where it was known that tom obrien wanted wilson to commit to spring football and wilson didnt want to and thats what led to his departure...wilson was a 3 year starter prior to that....lol...any way you slice it i think wilson won that battle

[jrokh 569]

1 minute ago, bobby heenan said:

i dont live in mass and i never have....the boston/nj combo explains it even more! lol...although my gf is from NJ and shes pretty cool...

so far all ive seen from you from an argument perspective is " wilson played at byu, looks like a kid and the jets havent produced a qb since namath"...you gotta give me more than that chief

 

I don't have to give you anything. Your entire premise is wrong. Again if you really believe Wilson will perform in a similar fashion to Burrow then you should draft him and play him. We both no you won't, however. Boston fans love to talk, not so good at the action part...

[bobby heenan 60]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Sounds good.  I'm convinced!

im not trying to convince you of anything other than that they did take steps to improve it...maybe not the best steps(like i said i still think taking sewell or their highest rated tackle would have been the better idea).....just saying...they did take a guy in the 2nd and signed a veteran former first round pick to play on the right side

[bobby heenan 60]

6 minutes ago, jrokh said:

I don't have to give you anything. Your entire premise is wrong. Again if you really believe Wilson will perform in a similar fashion to Burrow then you should draft him and play him. We both no you won't, however. Boston fans love to talk, not so good at the action part...

yeah us boston fans are the worst! we dont know anything! my premise is wrong in your eyes but you cant tell me how other than "wilson played at byu...he looks like a kid and the jets never produce star qbs"......but i didnt say he was going to be a superstar with a 15 year career....i just said he could put up some garbage time numbers with volume...if the jets arent letting him get knocked around and beat up he could put up 500+ pass attempts....and he can run a little....

again...which rookie qb here do you know has a lock on the starting job? because im just about certain wilson will be.....fields, jones and lance? ehh...i could see fields and lance....but i wouldnt be certain right now as of this minute....

 

you tell me "burrow was polished" but how many career college starts did he have?

you are right though...you dont have anything to give me....cept trashing "boston fans" ...were all talk...lol

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

Just now, bobby heenan said:

im not trying to convince you of anything other than that they did take steps to improve it...maybe not the best steps(like i said i still think taking sewell or their highest rated tackle would have been the better idea).....just saying...they did take a guy in the 2nd and signed a veteran former first round pick to play on the right side

I just think that if you are investing in a franchise QB, and your terrible OLine got him killed in his rookie season, your next step should be a massive overhaul in the off-season.  I'll call what they did an "upgrade", but it was so minute that's not really worth mentioning. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

11 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

so far all ive seen from you from an argument perspective is " wilson played at byu, looks like a kid and the jets havent produced a qb since namath"...you gotta give me more than that chief

Don't hold your breath.  He and the Elf are the kings of "Not uh".

[bobby heenan 60]

5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I just think that if you are investing in a franchise QB, and your terrible OLine got him killed in his rookie season, your next step should be a massive overhaul in the off-season.  I'll call what they did an "upgrade", but it was so minute that's not really worth mentioning. 

i def dont disagree with you....the chase thing still boggles my mind given how well i thought higgins looked...higgins and boyd is a good foundation with mixon...plus theres always receiver talent to be had in the 2nd.....having had boyd and higgins last year i watched as much of cincy as i could...and i was impressed with burrow......def need to bake bigger steps and make protecting him a top priority...i cant disagree with you there one bit......they prob think reiff is a stop gap at right tackle for now and theyll see where they are with carman..if they wanna keep him at guard or eventually move him into that spot in the future....

[jrokh 569]

13 minutes ago, bobby heenan said:

yeah us boston fans are the worst! we dont know anything!

No there are definitely worse (cowboys/eagles). But Boston fans definitely have an inferiority complex, which you have so ably demonstrated throughout this thread. Well done!

[bobby heenan 60]

4 minutes ago, jrokh said:

No there are definitely worse (cowboys/eagles). But Boston fans definitely have an inferiority complex, which you have so ably demonstrated throughout this thread. Well done!

hahaha....wow...you are out there bro....now i have an inferiority complex!

 

you called burrow polished...how many career starts did he have in college? answer me.....your argument has been "wilson looks like a kid"...well he is a kid...if he didnt id be concerned...."the jets havent produced a star since namath"...who fkn cares? what does that have to do with anything? .....its not a complex...i simply dont see anything of substance from you....which youve admitted "i dont have anything"...but you seem so sure im wrong...which is odd