Phil Mickelson..Liv Golf...Jeesh

[Cloaca du jour 2,147]

https://www.sportscasting.com/phil-mickelson-continues-waste-liv-golf-money-literally-drops-new-low-point-career/

 

In his first four starts in the Saudi-backed series last year, he shot a combined 28-over par with finishes of T33, T40, 35, and T40. These are 48-player fields, folks

 

[edjr 6,578]

He got 100 million didn't he? Did the saudis expect players to practice?  

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

He accomplished what he set out to do..... reshape the PGA Tour. Undeniably. 

(oh and pay off his gambling debts)

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

5 hours ago, Cloaca du jour said:

https://www.sportscasting.com/phil-mickelson-continues-waste-liv-golf-money-literally-drops-new-low-point-career/

 

In his first four starts in the Saudi-backed series last year, he shot a combined 28-over par with finishes of T33, T40, 35, and T40. These are 48-player fields, folks

 

Whoever wrote the article is just blindly anti LIV. How is Phil’s bad play a waste of their money? They didn’t pay him to be good. He wasn’t very good the last few years anyway. They paid him for his name and the draw he theoretically can bring. The article talks about how far he’s fallen since winning his 6th major… that major came out of nowhere because Phil is really talented and can have a great week at a really tough layout. .. talking like he was an elite PGA player when they signed him  

[Cruzer 1,995]

Phil has 6 majors, is the oldest ever win a major, is T8 on the all time wins list, Ryder Cup champion as well as multiple RC records, etc.............

Outside of being right about everything he said about Jay-boy and the PGA Tour, LIV golf does not, nor will it ever, define Phil's golf legacy. He could shoot 90 every week - won't change anything. 

[Cloaca du jour 2,147]

11 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Phil has 6 majors, is the oldest ever win a major, is T8 on the all time wins list, Ryder Cup champion as well as multiple RC records, etc.............

Outside of being right about everything he said about Jay-boy and the PGA Tour, LIV golf does not, nor will it ever, define Phil's golf legacy. He could shoot 90 every week - won't change anything. 

I agree, just was expecting more

 

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

19 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

I agree, just was expecting more

 

Expecting more from… Phil? 
 

Id love to see him get back in form so that he can contend at Augusta or an Open Championship. I think with some form, those are the only two realistic ones. Imagine the heads that would spin. 
 

But I disagree with the premise of that article. LIV didn’t think it was getting prime Phil Mickelson. The PGA wasn’t getting that anymore. The 2021 PGA Championship is as an incredible performance and story that no one saw coming. 

[Cloaca du jour 2,147]

47 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Expecting more from… Phil? 
 

Id love to see him get back in form so that he can contend at Augusta or an Open Championship. I think with some form, those are the only two realistic ones. Imagine the heads that would spin. 
 

But I disagree with the premise of that article. LIV didn’t think it was getting prime Phil Mickelson. The PGA wasn’t getting that anymore. The 2021 PGA Championship is as an incredible performance and story that no one saw coming. 

Yes, more.  I root for him..still had high hopes he would represent.

[edjr 6,578]

Brooks asks the PGA Tour how his ass tastes  

[thegeneral 2,909]

Brooks is a beast.

I know they have unlimited cash and all but how long do they pump hundreds of millions into this thing that like 12 people watch?

[edjr 6,578]

2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Brooks is a beast.

I know they have unlimited cash and all but how long do they pump hundreds of millions into this thing that like 12 people watch?

How many people you think watched the PGA tour it's 1st year? 

[thegeneral 2,909]

16 minutes ago, edjr said:

How many people you think watched the PGA tour it's 1st year? 

Not sure. Two leagues for a niche sport and a million things to watch aren’t going to help. 

[edjr 6,578]

5 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Not sure. Two leagues for a niche sport and a million things to watch aren’t going to help. 

Niche.    Da Masters had 12 million viewers Sunday

[thegeneral 2,909]

14 minutes ago, edjr said:

Niche.    Da Masters had 12 million viewers Sunday

Yeah that’s The Masters

The John Deer Classic draws like 1 million.  I’m a big golf fan and tried watching LIV and was pretty lame. If they can find a biz model paying this amount of money that will be very impressive or maybe they just don’t care.

[edjr 6,578]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Yeah that’s The Masters

The John Deer Classic draws like 1 million.  I’m a big golf fan and tried watching LIV and was pretty lame. If they can find a biz model paying this amount of money that will be very impressive or maybe they just don’t care.

It ain't my money.  This is CW's 1st year having LIV. I have read they are going to try to bring other sports on board.

 

[thegeneral 2,909]

2 minutes ago, edjr said:

It ain't my money.  This is CW's 1st year having LIV. I have read they are going to try to bring other sports on board.

 

Having like 10 or so really top notch players on each tour is gonna make both leagues less watchable - except for the majors where they all will seemingly play.

But yeah I don’t care really either just wondering on long LIV tour oil dudes want to shell out for their hobby. 

[RogerDodger 797]

Niche sport.  

[edjr 6,578]

28 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Having like 10 or so really top notch players on each tour is gonna make both leagues less watchable - except for the majors where they all will seemingly play.

But yeah I don’t care really either just wondering on long LIV tour oil dudes want to shell out for their hobby. 

I prefer LIV because you know all the top players are playing and usually competing. PGA has had way to many noobs contending for my liking

[thegeneral 2,909]

2 minutes ago, edjr said:

I prefer LIV because you know all the top players are playing and usually competing. PGA has had way to many noobs contending for my liking

Whatever floats your boat. I play pretty much every weekend so big fan of the sport but really only plan to watch golf for Majors and the occasional Sunday for regular tour events. Maybe they can have a  2nd pro tour and make it relevant. Like I said I’m not watching the Rocket Mortgage Classic on the Tour either

I’m not too impressed with LIV tour roster. They have some big names but plenty of scrubs, over the hill players as well (Jediah Morgan!) and the whole format is too gimmicky for me. 

Good on them for getting paid though. I would have def taken that money and the PGA has some laughable arguments as to why they weren’t doing more for the players. 

[edjr 6,578]

35 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Whatever floats your boat. I play pretty much every weekend so big fan of the sport but really only plan to watch golf for Majors and the occasional Sunday for regular tour events. Maybe they can have a  2nd pro tour and make it relevant. Like I said I’m not watching the Rocket Mortgage Classic on the Tour either

I’m not too impressed with LIV tour roster. They have some big names but plenty of scrubs, over the hill players as well (Jediah Morgan!) and the whole format is too gimmicky for me. 

Good on them for getting paid though. I would have def taken that money and the PGA has some laughable arguments as to why they weren’t doing more for the players. 

I have stopped watching most golf on the weekends unless it is liv, they dont play that often. 

[thegeneral 2,909]

1 hour ago, RogerDodger said:

Niche sport.  

I love golf but it is niche. I don’t see it having two serious pro leagues…unless one of them is funded by playhouse oil prince money with no hopes of returning investment.

[RogerDodger 797]

4 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

I love golf but it is niche. I don’t see it having two serious pro leagues…unless one of them is funded by playhouse oil prince money with no hopes of returning investment.

Two 

Never heard of the DP World Tour?  Go read a book or something.  

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

I assume "thegeneral" is another moronic alias. Though he is not wrong about the notion of two pro leagues. There is no 1A and 1B with the NBA, MLB or NFL. So in that regard, what LIV is doing is different than anything we've really seen in major sports (golf being niche = ). 

Of course golf is different because there are world tours all around but the ultimate goal of top players playing on those tours has generally been to make it to the PGA. 

example: the new XFL was actually fairly decent this season, but the players and more importantly the league know that they are a feeder league to the NFL dream. 

LIV is not trying to be that. It's why the PGA is so scared. LIV is competition only for them and would like to coexist as it's own top tour with top tier talent. 

[edjr 6,578]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I assume "thegeneral" is another moronic alias. Though he is not wrong about the notion of two pro leagues. There is no 1A and 1B with the NBA, MLB or NFL. So in that regard, what LIV is doing is different than anything we've really seen in major sports (golf being niche = ). 

Of course golf is different because there are world tours all around but the ultimate goal of top players playing on those tours has generally been to make it to the PGA. 

example: the new XFL was actually fairly decent this season, but the players and more importantly the league know that they are a feeder league to the NFL dream. 

LIV is not trying to be that. It's why the PGA is so scared. LIV is competition only for them and would like to coexist as it's own top tour with top tier talent. 

Wish Norman would release a list of the PGA guys that asked to be on LIV and were denied

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

also to add, this is Jay Monohans worst nightmare. Two majors into the season and LIV golfers look better than fine. He no longer has the argument that guys electing to stick with the PGA are doing so because they care more about competition and history. Can't say all the LIV guys are washed up or dont have the drive/passion/competitive spirit anymore. Won't be shocked to see more top names ultimately go to LIV... the only thing holding them back at the moment is the OWGR points issues. 

Even Rory, i believe in one of his pressers before this week conceded that he's going to focus less on trumpeting this issue and more on his own game. He has finally realized no one else cares. 

[edjr 6,578]

1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

also to add, this is Jay Monohans worst nightmare. Two majors into the season and LIV golfers look better than fine. He no longer has the argument that guys electing to stick with the PGA are doing so because they care more about competition and history. Can't say all the LIV guys are washed up or dont have the drive/passion/competitive spirit anymore. Won't be shocked to see more top names ultimately go to LIV... the only thing holding them back at the moment is the OWGR points issues. 

Even Rory, i believe in one of his pressers before this week conceded that he's going to focus less on trumpeting this issue and more on his own game. He has finally realized no one else cares. 

  

Maybe Rory should join LIV and he would stop sucking

[Cruzer 1,995]

The Jay-Boy/LIV feud will come to an abrupt end just as soon as sponsors say enuff is enuff. The ones writing the checks are only going to put up with so much. If ratings start to plummet, they will pick up the phone and tell Jay-Boy to end it. 

[thegeneral 2,909]

2 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

Two 

Never heard of the DP World Tour?  Go read a book or something.  

The DP World Tour is def not niche viewing 

[thegeneral 2,909]

2 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

I assume "thegeneral" is another moronic alias. Though he is not wrong about the notion of two pro leagues. There is no 1A and 1B with the NBA, MLB or NFL. So in that regard, what LIV is doing is different than anything we've really seen in major sports (golf being niche = ). 

Of course golf is different because there are world tours all around but the ultimate goal of top players playing on those tours has generally been to make it to the PGA. 

example: the new XFL was actually fairly decent this season, but the players and more importantly the league know that they are a feeder league to the NFL dream. 

LIV is not trying to be that. It's why the PGA is so scared. LIV is competition only for them and would like to coexist as it's own top tour with top tier talent. 

The LIV tour is only possible because of crazy oil money. If they want to continue to payout hundreds of millions they can float it but no way this is sustaining itself. 

I don’t really care outside of that their gimmicky format makes their deal less interesting and they have peeled off a handful of great players which makes PGA tour a bit less interesting week to week. 

Geek Club is the LIV fan club apparently,  have no clue when they even do these things and couldn’t name any of the winners and I follow sports quite a bit and golf a ton.

 

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

16 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

The LIV tour is only possible because of crazy oil money. If they want to continue to payout hundreds of millions they can float it but no way this is sustaining itself. 

I don’t really care outside of that their gimmicky format makes their deal less interesting and they have peeled off a handful of great players which makes PGA tour a bit less interesting week to week. 

Geek Club is the LIV fan club apparently,  have no clue when they even do these things and couldn’t name any of the winners and I follow sports quite a bit and golf a ton.

 

Doubtful on that last part. I’ve only watched bits and pieces but as a golf fan I can tell you DJ won the last LIV event, Brooks won 2, Gooch won 2. CH3 won and the narrative that no names would be the winners because the big names already got fat paydays has not come to fruition. 
 

which parts are gimmicky? 3 rounds and no cuts?… done by the PGA on their champions tour. You’re just conditioned to think events have to be 4 rounds with a cut. I like 4 better but cut doesn’t matter to me. Is it the team aspect? Personally that’s really been growing on me. DJ kicked Gooch off his team and the teams seem to be made with a lot of friendships and nationalities in mind. I was skepitcal but that aspect has really grown on me. I’m not a big fan of shotgun starts but with how many PGA events this year seem to not be able to finish their rounds in one day, ….  But I’m more of the mindset that smaller fields is the answer not shotgun 

Norman wanted to start a tour many years ago but the PGA and all their resources squashed him. You’re kidding yourself if you think the PGA doesn’t have crazy money. LIV unfortunately had to get their backing if they ever wanted to get off the ground. The idea of contracting your players like other major sports was going to take upfront capital. 
 

fwiw I’m not a LIV golf “fan” I just dislike the way the PGA has responded with this notion that they have to be the only game in town. If you don’t want competition, improve your product… and look at how many reactionary changes they have already made. 

[thegeneral 2,909]

29 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Doubtful on that last part. I’ve only watched bits and pieces but as a golf fan I can tell you DJ won the last LIV event, Brooks won 2, Gooch won 2. CH3 won and the narrative that no names would be the winners because the big names already got fat paydays has not come to fruition. 
 

which parts are gimmicky? 3 rounds and no cuts?… done by the PGA on their champions tour. You’re just conditioned to think events have to be 4 rounds with a cut. I like 4 better but cut doesn’t matter to me. Is it the team aspect? Personally that’s really been growing on me. DJ kicked Gooch off his team and the teams seem to be made with a lot of friendships and nationalities in mind. I was skepitcal but that aspect has really grown on me. I’m not a big fan of shotgun starts but with how many PGA events this year seem to not be able to finish their rounds in one day, ….  But I’m more of the mindset that smaller fields is the answer not shotgun 

Norman wanted to start a tour many years ago but the PGA and all their resources squashed him. You’re kidding yourself if you think the PGA doesn’t have crazy money. LIV unfortunately had to get their backing if they ever wanted to get off the ground. The idea of contracting your players like other major sports was going to take upfront capital. 
 

fwiw I’m not a LIV golf “fan” I just dislike the way the PGA has responded with this notion that they have to be the only game in town. If you don’t want competition, improve your product… and look at how many reactionary changes they have already made. 

Totally agree with the last part. Some of the PGA’s response to this has been laughable. They definitely have a lot of old clowns in their ranks.

The gimmicky parts I don’t like are the 3 days, the team thing, shotgun start is def weird unless you are at a work tournament , and I like the cut line especially when it’s an important tournament. 

I do like the tradition of many of the tournaments on PGA as I have watched them for years.

Some of this could def be overcome but I don’t see LIV tour becoming a thing. More power to them and all for players getting paid out as much as they can. Just sucks we don’t see a few of these names playing with the PGA regulars outside of the majors. 

 

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

3 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Totally agree with the last part. Some of the PGA’s response to this has been laughable. They definitely have a lot of old clowns in their ranks.

The gimmicky parts I don’t like are the 3 days, the team thing, shotgun start is def weird unless you at a work tournament , and I like the cut line especially when it’s an important tournament. 

I do like the tradition of many of the tournaments on PGA as I have watched them for years.

Some of this could def be overcome but I don’t see LIV tour becoming a thing. More power to them and all for players getting paid out as much as they can. Just sucks we don’t see a few of these names playing with the PGA regulars outside of the majors. 

 

But you do realize the PGA Tour was once a breakaway tour right? And all this tradition was built over time. I’m not saying LIV will ultimately succeed but it would have to be given time before “tradition” is a reasonable argument. It would be interesting to see if 10 years from now, any LIV events resonate with their players as prestigious and a big tradition. 
The tradition of the majors and Ryder cup is independent of the PGA Tour. 

[thegeneral 2,909]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

But you do realize the PGA Tour was once a breakaway tour right? And all this tradition was built over time. I’m not saying LIV will ultimately succeed but it would have to be given time before “tradition” is a reasonable argument. It would be interesting to see if 10 years from now, any LIV events resonate with their players as prestigious and a big tradition. 
The tradition of the majors and Ryder cup is independent of the PGA Tour. 

Why do I want to stop watching what I already enjoy watching for the 3 day tournament with them teeing off at diff holes and playing for their team the “Smoking Aces” or whatever? Zero interest. 

I’m not really the hugest of watchers in any case, as long as the Majors are still full of the best don’t really care. I watch those and a couple of the big stops if they are good on Sunday.

I thought the Ryder Cup might have some issues as well but if the best are in that no issues with this LIV thing, I’m just not going to watch it and doubt it will ever gain traction. If some Sheik wants to burn through billions to hang out with DJ and Paulina have at it  

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Why do I want to stop watching what I already enjoy watching for the 3 day tournament with them teeing off at diff holes and playing for their team the “Smoking Aces” or whatever? Zero interest. 

I’m not really the hugest of watchers in any case, as long as the Majors are still full of the best don’t really care. I watch those and a couple of the big stops if they are good on Sunday.

I thought the Ryder Cup might have some issues as well but if the best are in that no issues with this LIV thing, I’m just not going to watch it and doubt it will ever gain traction. If some Sheik wants to burn through billions to hang out with DJ and Paulina have at it  

But earlier you said you follow golf a ton.  Now you only watch the majors and some other big tournaments if good on Sunday. 
 

I never said to stop watching pga and start watching LiV. Just pointing out why a lot of the anti LIV arguments are weak. 

[thegeneral 2,909]

1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

But earlier you said you follow golf a ton.  Now you only watch the majors and some other big tournaments if good on Sunday. 
 

I never said to stop watching pga and start watching LiV. Just pointing out why a lot of the anti LIV arguments are weak. 

I play golf a ton, take multiple golf trips a year but just watch occasionally. I also follow sports very closely, do a weekly golf fantasy league, etc. I’d say I am probably like top 90% of people who engage in golf - and I couldn’t name more than 10 players on this thing without looking on their site and def don’t know the results or when they play the next one.

LIV tour I don’t believe I have even seen highlights for and watched the first one a bit for curiosity (YouTube maybe)? Don’t even know how to watch it at this point.

No one in my golf groups talk about it outside of when it was going down with signing the big names.

Maybe I’m an outlier but don’t think so.

If this thing is around in 5 years, or whenever the first batch of these rainmaker contracts are up, I would be kind of surprised. 

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

. I’d say I am probably like top 90% of people who engage in golf - 

Maybe I’m an outlier but don’t think so.

Playing golf and following the sport of golf is not the same thing at all. This is a convo about professional golf and you said you follow it a ton but you clearly don’t. 
 

I don’t think you’re an outlier as far as knowing anything about LIV golf, maybe an outlier in thinking you’re top 90% of golf engagement  

[thegeneral 2,909]

7 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Playing golf and following the sport of golf is not the same thing at all. This is a convo about professional golf and you said you follow it a ton but you clearly don’t. 
 

I don’t think you’re an outlier as far as knowing anything about LIV golf, maybe an outlier in thinking you’re top 90% of golf engagement  

I mean I can recognize most of names in the top 100 in the World Rankings, play weekly fantasy golf, watch it, follow players on Instagram, etc. That’s following it pretty closely but who knows I haven’t really considered this question.

Maybe I’m not giving golf enough respect and everyone follows this stuff super closely and watches the John Deere Classic wire to wire.

Definitely not this LIV stuff. I won’t see Brooks, DJ, Phil, Pat Reed, etc again until the US Open.

[RogerDodger 797]

Add this to the long list of things thegeneral is clueless about. 

[thegeneral 2,909]

3 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

Add this to the long list of things thegeneral is clueless about. 

You seem like more of a Putt Putt guy.