Strike 5,590 Posted 4 hours ago 3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Don't need to. Our founding fathers already did that. WTF are you talking about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,844 Posted 4 hours ago 1 minute ago, Strike said: WTF are you talking about? They set the rules for what is legitimate. People need to be free to choose for themselves. Self-determination. It’s also written into the Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Atlantic Charter, all of which we crafted for the world. Google those and see what you find. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,590 Posted 4 hours ago 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: They set the rules for what is legitimate. People need to be free to choose for themselves. Self-determination. It’s also written into the Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Atlantic Charter, all of which we crafted for the world. Google those and see what you find. We are talking about other countries, not the U.S. You can't be this stupid so you must be trolling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,844 Posted 4 hours ago 1 minute ago, Strike said: We are talking about other countries, not the U.S. You can't be this stupid so you must be trolling. We’re talking about what makes a government legitimate. I explained the rules to you, rules for the entire world that we set up. That’s in response to your inane statement “you don’t get to make up the rules.” I didn’t. Our founding fathers did, for ourselves. Then after World War II we set them up for the rest of the world. Educate yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,015 Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said: People need to be free Not everyone has earned or deserves that right. There's a large segment of this Country that deserves nothing from the US or anywhere else for that matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,844 Posted 3 hours ago 29 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: Not everyone has earned or deserves that right. There's a large segment of this Country that deserves nothing from the US or anywhere else for that matter. Everyone deserves that right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,015 Posted 3 hours ago 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: Everyone deserves that right. Really?? Murderers and rapists deserve that right? Where does it say anyone deserves anything? Nobody deserves anything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,372 Posted 2 hours ago 17 hours ago, Strike said: Cool. So you acknowledge that Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza. As such, their people deserve whatever fate befalls them. I'm glad we agree. Now can you tell your namesake all of this as well. @The Real timschochet Strike said duly elected government, not legitimate government. Your definition of legitimate government could be questioned, but putting that aside, why don't you answer the question as it was posed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mookz 1,349 Posted 2 hours ago I have Israel Gaza by submission in the third, so wish me luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,909 Posted 1 hour ago 6 hours ago, Strike said: Why do you say that? What do you base that 20 year timeframe on? The little bit of research I've done suggests elections are very random there and often postponed. I don't know what, if any, laws they have regarding elections. Your stance seems to be based on American ideals but not every place is America. Is Kim Jong Un (sp) the legitimate leader of N. Korea? I would say yes despite it being a very ugly situation over there. But that seems to be how their government is set up. But Hamas was duly elected and until you show me some proof that they're violating some law regarding holding elections, they're the legitimate government there. Regardless of your personal, emotion filled FEELINGS. Well I think you answered your own question here by noting that their elections are often postponed. In fact they were scheduled to have one in 2021 and it was “indefinitely postponed”: https://www.elections.ps/tabid/235/language/en-US/Default.aspx Let’s also look at their history. Prior to 2006, they had one in 1996. So it’s now been twice as long as between their last 2 elections. They can not be considered “duly elected” anymore. Nice attempted goalpost move by claiming ”they’re duly elected unless they’re breaking a law” though. Kim Jong Un is probably a fair comparison. He’s the “legitimate” leader, but he wasn’t duly elected either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,844 Posted 1 hour ago 59 minutes ago, Gepetto said: @The Real timschochet Strike said duly elected government, not legitimate government. Your definition of legitimate government could be questioned, but putting that aside, why don't you answer the question as it was posed? I thought I did. Hamas was duly elected 20 years ago. Because they have stayed in power since that time without elections I don’t regard them as a legitimate government. But there is an even bigger point to be made here. The implication that @Strike and others are making is: the Palestinian people chose this government, therefore they are responsible for the crimes committed by this government and must suffer the consequences. Even IF I regarded Hamas as a legitimate government, I still wouldn’t accept this premise. I don’t believe in collective responsibility. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,844 Posted 1 hour ago Let me go even further: let’s say that every living Palestinian, man, woman, child, was fully supportive of Hamas, fully enthusiastic of their goals, fully cognizant and gung ho about everything Hamas is doing or plans to do. Even then, they still would not be responsible for the crimes of Hamas unless they took a direct part in those crimes, they still should not have to suffer the consequences. IMO. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites