Tusekan Raiders 0 Posted January 6, 2002 Too early, IMO. Since we have such limited keepers, it would suck if one of your guys had a season ending injury in spring training. I suggest we have 4 or 5 by 2/1, so people can start to prepare for the draft, but won't be screwed if one of their guys goes down, and then have the final 3 a week or so before the draft, plenty of time to finalize a cheatsheet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farmer Bernie 0 Posted January 6, 2002 Some good points. I think I like that idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 0 Posted January 6, 2002 I thnk Feb 1st is fine. Injuries can happen on any day, so waiting doesn't prevent the possibility--you can't make a rule that cushions the blow of an inopportune injury--they're all inopportune. Cutdown should always take place in the offseason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EMoney 0 Posted January 6, 2002 I like the idea of cutting to 5 or 6 players and then have a final cutdown just before we draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tusekan Raiders 0 Posted January 7, 2002 Originally posted by torridjoe:Injuries can happen on any day, so waiting doesn't prevent the possibility--you can't make a rule that cushions the blow of an inopportune injury--they're all inopportune. Cutdown should always take place in the offseason. I think I'd have less of a problem with, "I'm the commish, it's too much work/not a big deal/etc. and I say no", b/c I don't understand your reasoning. You call the result of an injury inopportune, but I call it punitive. We only keep 3 guys, so losing even 1 skews (granted, possibly only in theory) the competitive balance. Owners without injuries have a head start, owners who don't are punished. So I believe we can make a rule that protects balance and alleviates punishment for bad luck. I mean, in real baseball, if a someone gets hurt before spring training, the team doesn't lose his roster spot nor are they prohibited from filling it with someone who they didn't invite to camp or already sent down. And the final cutdown would still have to take place in the offseason, before the draft. BTW, this begs another question I'm not sure is answered, do you have to keep three? If not, how would that be handled in the draft, extra rounds at the end? B/c this applies to what happens if your keeper gets hurt before the draft. Is having to wait until the first free agency period to fill that slot fair? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 0 Posted January 9, 2002 How can it be punitive when it can happen to anybody at any time? There's no unequal risk--it's totally random. Further, you're speaking of a catastrophic injury, which is only a subset of all injuries. I don't consider spring training "offseason." By offseason I mean "players not reported." If you like, we could establish a rule allowing any owner to replace ONE keeper lost to the SIXTY day DL before the draft, from the eligible free agent pool. Precedence on claims would be in order of earliest placement on the SIXTY day DL, and in the case of ties, by random generation. I believe the rules note a maximum of three players. If anyone decides to be short, we'll "extend" the draft by allowing claims in draft order until all teams have full rosters. (I don't think CBS will let me add draft slots, but we can let owners claim players manually.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farmer Bernie 0 Posted January 9, 2002 Originally posted by torridjoe: If you like, we could establish a rule allowing any owner to replace ONE keeper lost to the SIXTY day DL before the draft, from the eligible free agent pool. Precedence on claims would be in order of earliest placement on the SIXTY day DL, and in the case of ties, by random generation. If we do this, shouldn't that person have to draw from players from his previous year's roster. In theory, with your method, a team could actually improve should a player get hurt before our draft. I would not support something like that. I DO support cutting down to 5 or 6 by 2/1, then down to 3 a few days before the draft. This way, a team is covered from injury, demotion, etc. Most players will be released into the free agent pool and we will have an idea of who everyone is keeping. btw Are we still allowed to trade until cutdown day (2/1)?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 0 Posted January 9, 2002 You're right--that's not advisable. We're back to Feb 1st, 3 players. Re trading: I posted the rules to the BOSMOSPOF site, but the trading season clause doesn't look like it's in there. I suppose trading is fine until 5 minutes before the draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farmer Bernie 0 Posted January 9, 2002 Originally posted by torridjoe:You're right--that's not advisable. We're back to Feb 1st, 3 players. or YOU'RE back to Feb 1st, 3 players. It apperars that all others chiming in here (only 3 of us) favor a cutdown to 5 or 6. You appear to be ignoring that option. I don't see what's so wrong about having a preliminary cutdown. I think we need to get everyone else to sound off on this. Maybe a message on the main board, or email. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ditkanate 0 Posted January 9, 2002 Quit whining and cut your damn rosters down all you whining whinybags!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tusekan Raiders 0 Posted January 9, 2002 Originally posted by torridjoe:How can it be punitive when it can happen to anybody at any time? There's no unequal risk--it's totally random. Further, you're speaking of a catastrophic injury, which is only a subset of all injuries. Of course it can happen to anyone at any time, but if it does once the draft is done, you have a full roster (here is the key part) just like everyone else. Everyone is 'whole' at the start. What happens from there is absolutely random and equal risk. However, if you lose one of your keepers prior to the draft, all teams are not whole. How is that not an inequity that cannot be considered punititve? Granted, even with my suggestion (cut to 4-6, then 3 a week before the draft), you can still get screwed, but it has removed a lot of the risk and insures a better chance of all teams starting on equal ground. And yes, I am talking about a specific subset of injuries. It has to be a season ending injury. Since there is no IR like football, where once you are placed on it, you cannot return for the season, it could unfortunately be subjective, but we still have time to define the parameters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 0 Posted January 9, 2002 Everyone is "whole" on cutdown day, too. There's no difference between Feb 2nd and April 2--you had a star, and then you lost him. Whether you have 22 (or 23 or 24) players around them or not, if they get injured you lose them. There is an equal and random risk on cutdown day, just as on draft day. If it happens, it happens. 2 years ago, after cutting my roster to 6 players in a 16 team league, Darnay Scott broke his leg in training camp. It sucked losing a player two weeks before I could replace him, much less get any of his stats--but bad luck is all it is. Trying to protect against random bad luck just creates more headaches than it solves. As you say, how do you quantify "bad injury?" I'll say again: Feb 1st is fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hog Chow 0 Posted January 10, 2002 I say we cut down to 3 on Feb 1..... There is a bit of risk, but that's the nature of keeper leagues. I'm sure we all have played in keeper FF leagues before and the risk here is MUCH less given the nature of the sport and the length of the season. I may be totally off base here, but I speculate that a few of you are afraid to make tough decisions before spring training and really aren't that concerned about a season-ending injury.... [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Hog Chow ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farmer Bernie 0 Posted January 10, 2002 Originally posted by Hog Chow: I may be totally off base here, but I speculate that a few of you are afraid to make tough decisions before spring training and really aren't that concerned about a season-ending injury.... [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Hog Chow ] mmmmmmmmmaybe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tusekan Raiders 0 Posted January 10, 2002 Originally posted by Hog Chow:...I speculate that a few of you are afraid to make tough decisions before spring training and really aren't that concerned about a season-ending injury.... Actually, I think mine are fairly easy. Jeter, Giles, Clemens. I don't disagree that is a huge factor, possible benefit for some. Regardless, at this point, I'm arguing more b/c I can't understand why tj can't see there is a difference, and we aren't just talking about random luck. And on to that. Yes, everyone is whole on cutdown day, but the friggin draft will be over a month later. It's not like we cutdown and then immediately draft. And your example of 6 keepers in a football league fails for me also. Keeping 6 in a football league, where you start 8 or 9, would be equivalent of keeping about 15 in our baseball league. If we kept 15, I'd easily agree, 1 or 2 injuries isn't as great an impact. But I don't understand how you don't see the variation in impact b/c we keep only 3 of 21. It's not a big deal, but I just have a problem with the arguement supporting the justification, and why I continue to discuss it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 0 Posted January 10, 2002 I basically just don't believe in trying to make allowances for an unquantifiable, random occurrence. It's part of the game. Besides, what about non-injuries? What if a guy gets suspended? What if he takes a personal leave for a sick uncle? If the chance that something bad could happen is equally distributed, I'm not about to mess with it. Luck is part of the game, and part of managing well is dealing with bad luck. I do appreciate hearing the concerns, and initially I tried to accomodate your position in some way, but Bernie's comments on my suggested remedy indirectly pointed out that ANYTHING we try to do to cushion the blow would be an inexact science. But I believe my first instinct to be correct, and I'm closing it down as an issue. Cutdown day will be Feb 1st, and we'll cut to three that day. I saw Ty on the Geek Board, but still no response over here or on my email. I haven't checked the BOSMOSPOF board in a while to see how the bench slot issue is going/how many have checked in. We will obviously need to resolve all recognized issues before Feb 1st, so raise any other questions you have, NOW. If we get to Wednesday the 16th without any objection, we'll do our cuts via a special thread, here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EMoney 0 Posted January 10, 2002 Originally posted by Hog Chow:I say we cut down to 3 on Feb 1..... I disagree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blitzen 0 Posted January 15, 2002 I'm OK with the Feb 1 date. I think what you do at and after the draft is what determines the outcome anyway. I won the SB this year in my money league despite losing Jamal Lewis, Jamal Anderson and Ricky Watters to significant injuries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KC Deuce 1 Posted January 16, 2002 Originally posted by Blitzen:I won the SB this year in my money league despite losing Jamal Lewis, Jamal Anderson and Ricky Watters to significant injuries. Quit comparing apples to oranges . . . this is baseball, damnit. February 1 is fine by me, but I also like the idea that if you do lose one, youcould replace him with another from your original roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
