Illegal Immigrants - What taxes do they pay?

[torridjoe 0]

I just asked a simple question.

What taxes do they pay?

Apparently - Quite a bit less than 'Legals' and regular old US citizens like me.

Yes - Sales tax

Yes - Gas tax [Fed & State]

 

No - FICA

No - State Income taxes

No - Federal Income taxes

No - Property taxes

 

No - Auto insurance

There might be 1 more.

 

As I pointed out, you're wrong about FICA, Medicaid and property taxes, at a minimum.

 

Muhammad,

 

Unlike you there are those of us who deal in reality and not the tiny technical loopholes that you always look for.

 

If you were dealing in reality, you'd realize you are hopelessly outgunned on this one, and would just shut up. But you have neither the shame nor the tools to realize you tried to argue with something that wasn't said, I guess.

[Ravens 03 0]

As I pointed out, you're wrong about FICA, Medicaid and property taxes, at a minimum.

 

How do they pay FICA/Medicaid when they are working 'under the table'?

 

And how do they pay property taxes when they can't own property legally??

[Mungwater 588]

As I pointed out, you're wrong about FICA, Medicaid and property taxes, at a minimum.

 

 

Here is how it works, they come work at your businesss, do the job, you pay them cash. Uncle Sugar doesn't know anything about it.

[torridjoe 0]

How do they FICA/Medicaid when they are working 'under the table'?

 

And how do they pay property taxes when they can't own property legally??

 

Not sure what that means. They can't buy a car with cash, for instance?

 

Many undocumenteds are not working under the table; they are working off false papers. Nonetheless, the tax payments from both employee and employer are being made.

[Ravens 03 0]

Not sure what that means. They can't buy a car with cash, for instance?

 

Many undocumenteds are not working under the table; they are working off false papers. Nonetheless, the tax payments from both employee and employer are being made.

 

1) Buying a car with cash generate sales tax - I've noted this one.

In MD we do not asess taxes after that.

 

Property taxes to me are taxes on real property - a House.

 

2) If an illegal works with false papers [another crime] lemme guess how much is being withheld - next to nothing because they are working low wages and claim about a million exemptions - thus -0- taxes withheld.

 

And at the end of the year - they don't file a return [another crime] and even it up with the IRS - thus NOT PAYING their taxes owed for the year.

 

 

Help me out - I'm trying to figure out what they DO PAY!

Especially compared to you and me.

 

Here is how it works, they come work at your businesss, do the job, you pay them cash. Uncle Sugar doesn't know anything about it.

 

This really happens! I'm shocked!

[George Carlin 1]

Not sure what that means. They can't buy a car with cash, for instance?

 

Many undocumenteds are not working under the table; they are working off false papers. Nonetheless, the tax payments from both employee and employer are being made.

 

in 2001, I lived with a 20 year old brazilian girl (very skinny, b's)

 

She was illegal and had a fake social security #. She worked at Dunkin Donuts where she did fill out a w4, but she claimed 5 children, so she hardly had anything taken out.

 

It's so easy for illegals to get fake social security #'s. Unless the gubment cracks down on business that hire illegals and check socials, nothing will ever change.

 

She never did file a return, she just switched jobs every so often.

 

 

[torridjoe 0]

1) Buying a car with cash generate sales tax - I've noted this one.

In MD we do not asess taxes after that.

 

Property taxes to me are taxes on real property - a House.

 

2) If an illegal works with false papers [another crime] lemme guess how much is being withheld - next to nothing because they are working low wages and claim about a million exemptions - thus -0- taxes withheld.

 

And at the end of the year - they don't file a return [another crime] and even it up with the IRS - thus NOT PAYING their taxes owed for the year.

Help me out - I'm trying to figure out what they DO PAY!

Especially compared to you and me.

This really happens! I'm shocked!

 

Vehicles are property. Almost all states (but not all) levy property taxes on cars.

 

"next to nothing" is not zero. And it's not next to nothing anyway. I claim 7 exemptions and I still pay thousands in withholding.

 

Those that don't file are much more likely to be eligible for a refund than to owe money.

 

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me; I gave you a documented example of a state where undocumented immigrants pay millions in taxes.

[Strike 3,975]

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me; I gave you a documented example of a state where undocumented immigrants pay millions in taxes.

 

Muhammad,

 

I don't think anyone will dispute that some illegals pay some taxes. People take issue with the inference, and I know you'll now say you didn't infer anything but whatever, that because they pay some taxes that they are a financial benefit to society. The fact is that their net economic impact is negative. You talk about them paying millions in taxes. In California they TAKE 5-10 billion in public assistance, and that's a conservative number.

[George Carlin 1]

Vehicles are property. Almost all states (but not all) levy property taxes on cars.

 

"next to nothing" is not zero. And it's not next to nothing anyway. I claim 7 exemptions and I still pay thousands in withholding.

 

Those that don't file are much more likely to be eligible for a refund than to owe money.

 

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me; I gave you a documented example of a state where undocumented immigrants pay millions in taxes.

 

 

and my ex illegal girlfriend bought a car, without a license, the guy she bought it from had it registered illegally. She even got pulled over, the cop gave her a citation for driving without a license to go to court, I went to court with her and they gave her a fine and said "don't ever get pulled over again"

 

[DanXIII 8]

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me; I gave you a documented example of a state where undocumented immigrants pay millions in taxes.

 

People whose minds are already made up are generally not interested in debate, fwiw. Not that his is, just a general statement.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Face it, as long as there are people willing to employ illegal immigrants, we will always have illegal immigrants. I'd like to see local cops take some of the effort and resources out of trying to sell ###### to horny guys and channel that into stinging people who will hire anyone to do any job, no questions asked, as long as they can pay pauper's wages. The popular approach to solving the problem seems to be to use a sponge to soak up the water rather than repairing the dam. or some other analogy like that.

 

and my ex illegal girlfriend bought a car, without a license, the guy she bought it from had it registered illegally. She even got pulled over, the cop gave her a citation for driving without a license to go to court, I went to court with her and they gave her a fine and said "don't ever get pulled over again"

 

 

So what you're saying is, effectively, you are part of the problem?

[torridjoe 0]

Muhammad,

 

I don't think anyone will dispute that some illegals pay some taxes. People take issue with the inference, and I know you'll now say you didn't infer anything but whatever, that because they pay some taxes that they are a financial benefit to society. The fact is that their net economic impact is negative. You talk about them paying millions in taxes. In California they TAKE 5-10 billion in public assistance, and that's a conservative number.

 

Ravens was disputing it, as evidenced by the big NO next to some of the taxes.

 

I never said they were a net benefit. But yes, they do have a financial benefit. And we're not talking just a few millions; we're talking about a couple hundred million in a small state like Oregon. And that's just taxes; it says nothing about the money paid into the economy from wages.

 

When you say "the fact is that their net economic impact is negative," you should try substantiating that. Knock yourself out, but when you come back you can tell me what I already know: the data are far from clear in reaching that conclusion.

[George Carlin 1]

all i know is i don't want to have to pay $10 for a carton of fockin OJ

 

Too much sugar, don't drink that crap anyway.

[Strike 3,975]

Ravens was disputing it, as evidenced by the big NO next to some of the taxes.

 

I never said they were a net benefit. But yes, they do have a financial benefit. And we're not talking just a few millions; we're talking about a couple hundred million in a small state like Oregon. And that's just taxes; it says nothing about the money paid into the economy from wages.

 

When you say "the fact is that their net economic impact is negative," you should try substantiating that. Knock yourself out, but when you come back you can tell me what I already know: the data are far from clear in reaching that conclusion.

 

I just did. They contribute millions but take billions. And that's conservative. When I see hospitals closing at an alarming rate because they can't afford to take care of illegals for free, schools overcrowded with low quality education, etc etc.....that's tangible data to me, unlike the crap you post that is all "studies" and "guestimates".

[torridjoe 0]

I just did. They contribute millions but take billions. And that's conservative. When I see hospitals closing at an alarming rate because they can't afford to take care of illegals for free, schools overcrowded with low quality education, etc etc.....that's tangible data to me, unlike the crap you post that is all "studies" and "guestimates".

 

You've provided not the first piece of data to substantiate your claim. Not a one. All you have is uneducated speculation. That fact makes your denigration of actual research, all the more ridiculous.

[Strike 3,975]

all i know is i don't want to have to pay $10 for a carton of fockin OJ

 

And there's no reason to believe you would, just scare tactics from illegal immigration activists. The fruit picking industry could industrialize, just like the auto industry did. They have no reason to do so so they don't. Do you really think, in this day and age, it's actually necessary for people to climb trees and pick oranges by hand?

 

You've provided not the first piece of data to substantiate your claim. Not a one. All you have is uneducated speculation. That fact makes your denigration of actual research, all the more ridiculous.

 

I don't need biased research to understand that 2+2=4. And so far all you've posted is some studies that say illegals pay some taxes. Big deal. I've conceded that. The point is they take more than they give, and that's just economics. We haven't even gotten into their effect on traffic, housing, and the other areas that aren't as obvious.

[DanXIII 8]

Opinion > hard data.

 

This is a fact.

 

[Ravens 03 0]

You've provided not the first piece of data to substantiate your claim. Not a one. All you have is uneducated speculation. That fact makes your denigration of actual research, all the more ridiculous.

 

Come on now tj.

 

You're telling me that schools and hospiutals and the like have not seen enormous financial strains from providing services to illegals? And that these have not been major NEGATIVE influences to the country?

 

 

And BTW - Could your please refer to them as what they are ->ILLEGAL ALIENS instead of some ###### name like undocumented guest workers?

[torridjoe 0]

I don't need biased research to understand that 2+2=4. And so far all you've posted is some studies that say illegals pay some taxes. Big deal. I've conceded that. The point is they take more than they give, and that's just economics. We haven't even gotten into their effect on traffic, housing, and the other areas that aren't as obvious.

 

If the point is that they take more than they give, you should easily be able to substantiate it. And yet you can't.

You've not made the slightest effort to do so.

 

"that's just economics"--what is? If it's an economic truism, why not just cite the reference that indicates it?

[Ravens 03 0]

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[Strike 3,975]

Opinion > hard data.

 

This is a fact.

 

 

Could you point me to the part where Muhammad shows a net positive financial impact from illegals? I have only seen something that says they put a little into the kitty. You know, if I could pay the gov't $1 and get $5 for it I'd gladly do it too but for some reason they won't give me more than I pay. Go figure.

[torridjoe 0]

Come on now tj.

 

You're telling me that schools and hospiutals and the like have not seen enormous financial strains from providing services to illegals? And that these have not been major NEGATIVE influences to the country?

And BTW - Could your please refer to them as what they are ->ILLEGAL ALIENS instead of some ###### name like undocumented guest workers?

 

I didn't say there was no negative impact. What I said was that the NET benefit or cost has yet to be definitively determined, and as such is unclear.

 

The proper name is undocumented immigrant. We have no guest worker program, nor should we.

 

 

 

Could you point me to the part where Muhammad shows a net positive financial impact from illegals? I have only seen something that says they put a little into the kitty. You know, if I could pay the gov't $1 and get $5 for it I'd gladly do it too but for some reason they won't give me more than I pay. Go figure.

 

I never claimed a net positive impact. That wasn't the question. Do you need to refer to the thread title again to remind yourself what the question was?

 

You, however, DID claim a net negative impact. And to date, you've offered not the first bit of data to support your contention.

[Strike 3,975]

If the point is that they take more than they give, you should easily be able to substantiate it. And yet you can't.

You've not made the slightest effort to do so.

 

"that's just economics"--what is? If it's an economic truism, why not just cite the reference that indicates it?

 

Here's one for you. It's from an obviously biased institution but the data is real and it references numerous studies on this issue from non-biased sources.

 

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?page...arch_localcosts

 

Point me to one that says the net impact is positive, even if it's from a liberal piece of turd source. Bet you can't.

 

The proper name is undocumented immigrant.

 

No it's not. It's illegal immigrant. Only in the last few years have the apologists started using that term, to try to avoid the fact that just by being here the immigrant has broken the law.

[DanXIII 8]

Could you point me to the part where Muhammad shows a net positive financial impact from illegals? I have only seen something that says they put a little into the kitty. You know, if I could pay the gov't $1 and get $5 for it I'd gladly do it too but for some reason they won't give me more than I pay. Go figure.

 

I wasn't trying to defend anyone (wtf is Muhammed?) merely pointing out that neither your opinion nor any anecdotal evidence you provide herein will ever qualify as "fact" no matter how many times you repeat it. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proven that you are right. /shrug

[torridjoe 0]

Here's one for you. It's from an obviously biased institution but the data is real and it references numerous studies on this issue from non-biased sources.

 

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?page...arch_localcosts

 

Point me to one that says the net impact is positive, even if it's from a liberal piece of turd source. Bet you can't.

No it's not. It's illegal immigrant. Only in the last few years have the apologists started using that term, to try to avoid the fact that just by being here the immigrant has broken the law.

 

It references two sources on cost/benefit. One is from an anti-immigrant group, the other--while respected--only addresses state taxes, not all taxes paid (much of which of course go back to the states, particularly as regards Medicare and educational costs).

 

Like I said, knock yourself out--but having researched it already, if you're honest you'll only reach the same conclusion: the data are not clear.

[Strike 3,975]

I wasn't trying to defend anyone (wtf is Muhammed?) merely pointing out that neither your opinion nor any anecdotal evidence you provide herein will ever qualify as "fact" no matter how many times you repeat it. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you haven't proven that you are right. /shrug

 

I just posted a link to a report that analyzes the economic effect of illegals, with references to numerous studies that have been done to support their analysis. This is completely consistent with what most people who live in high illegal immigrant states know from experience. Take it or leave it or post something to contradict it.

[torridjoe 0]

No it's not. It's illegal immigrant. Only in the last few years have the apologists started using that term, to try to avoid the fact that just by being here the immigrant has broken the law.

 

AP Stylebook allows the use of illegal immigrant; but for purposes of counting them the government refers to them either as undocumented aliens or immigrant overstayers.

[Mungwater 588]

immigrant overstayers.

 

Sounds like a nice name for squatters.

[Strike 3,975]

AP Stylebook allows the use of illegal immigrant; but for purposes of counting them the government refers to them either as undocumented aliens or immigrant overstayers.

 

So, the gov't doesn't get to define every term. And the gov't used to call them illegal immigrant. Just because the political parties are bending to the will of illegals doesn't mean I have to. They are immigrants here illegallly - illegal immigrant.

[torridjoe 0]

So, the gov't doesn't get to define every term. And the gov't used to call them illegal immigrant. Just because the political parties are bending to the will of illegals doesn't mean I have to. They are immigrants here illegallly - illegal immigrant.

 

Once again, this was never about what you want to call them. I was responding to whether the term "undocumented immigrant" is a proper term; it is. You jumped in uninvited with your own irrelevancies.

[Strike 3,975]

Once again, this was never about what you want to call them. I was responding to whether the term "undocumented immigrant" is a proper term; it is. You jumped in uninvited with your own irrelevancies.

 

It may be a valid term but it's not proper

[D_House 0]

how many immigrant overstayers does it take to change a lightbulb?

[Ravens 03 0]

Once again, this was never about what you want to call them. I was responding to whether the term "undocumented immigrant" is a proper term; it is. You jumped in uninvited with your own irrelevancies.

 

My question was:

Why don't you refer to them as what they are -> ILLEGAL ALIENS?

 

Do you have a problem saying what they are?

 

TIA

[Jeff Garcia 8]

I've been really torn over the immigration debate going on in this country. Undecided as to how I feel about several of the proposed solutions.

 

However, this thread is not helping the anti-immigrant viewpoint at all. The stupidity in here does a disservice to some real problems.

 

Instead of spewing "South Park" level ad homs, perhaps a more convincing point than "lets build a wall!" Which might be the dumbest idea of all.

Typical liberal, puts down others ideas as stupid, yet has none of his own.

[gocolts 300]

"undocumented immigrant"

 

 

They are NOT undocumented immigrants.They are illegal aliens.Plain and simple.

 

This new term started a few years ago by the liberals in an attempt to make them not sound like scumbag-lawbreakers.Just like that did with abortion.It use to be abortion rights.Then it was women's rights.Niether worked.Now they are calling it healthcare for women.

[torridjoe 0]

My question was:

Why don't you refer to them as what they are -> ILLEGAL ALIENS?

 

Do you have a problem saying what they are?

 

TIA

 

Because there is a better term for them.

 

 

They are NOT undocumented immigrants.They are illegal aliens.Plain and simple.

 

This new term started a few years ago by the liberals in an attempt to make them not sound like scumbag-lawbreakers.Just like that did with abortion.It use to be abortion rights.Then it was women's rights.Niether worked.Now they are calling it healthcare for women.

 

So undocumenteds are all scumbags now? Thanks for opening another window on your character. Now please shut it.

[Strike 3,975]

Because there is a better term for them.

 

 

Better is an opinion. Some of us prefer to call people who break the law law breakers.

[torridjoe 0]

Better is an opinion. Some of us prefer to call people who break the law law breakers.

 

So I should call you a law breaker to describe you?

[Strike 3,975]

So I should call you a law breaker to describe you?

 

What law have I broken? You haven't been looking in the freezer in my basement have you?

[torridjoe 0]

What law have I broken? You haven't been looking in the freezer in my basement have you?

 

I don't know which one, but I'm certain you have broken at least one, likely more.

[Strike 3,975]

I don't know which one, but I'm certain you have broken at least one, likely more.

 

Can I call you lawbreaker then? And you didn't answer my assertion that better is an opinion, not a fact. YOu will concede that some people believe illegal alien is a better term? Like the border patrol, who use the term prominently on their website?