Why is Joe Horn ranked so low

[TheGiantJets 18]

I know Joe Horn is being ranked low compared to last year on the WR list. Why is this? He's been very consistent, similar to Holt. I know last year wasn't his best season but with Brees at QB do you think he will have a great season. Any concerns on his knee?

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

im def targeting him as a real value pick. ppl are forgetting about him because of his poor 2005 season

[BigE47 0]

I was actually thinking the same thing. I'm hoping to get him in like the 5th or 6th round like i did Steve Smith last year. I always look for stars who had dropped off the previous year in those rounds and it normally pays off for me. The only question really is how healthy is Brees shoulder? Will he return to form or will he be Chad Pennington. Hopefully Brees gets enough reps in preseason games so we can find out.

[Peens 0]

Horn is ranked so low because people have very short memories. All it takes is one bad year due to injury and or bad play by the entire team and he drops.

[mdubz 0]

i have him in the mid teens for wrs. not a stud anymore IMO, but still a very solid #2.

[DrJ 0]

I'm not so sure it's as simple as people having short memories. Horn is 34.5 years old at this point. Things were a mess for the Saints last season, but at his age it's legitimate to wonder if he's lost a step.

[TheGiantJets 18]

I'm not so sure it's as simple as people having short memories. Horn is 34.5 years old at this point. Things were a mess for the Saints last season, but at his age it's legitimate to wonder if he's lost a step.

 

Did he ever have the best speed. I just thought it was his routes, moves and catching ability that made the plays more than his speed. i don't think he was ever a super fast WR to begin with.

[Cuse9 128]

Age is one obvious thing to look at, however, he sat a few years in KC, so he doesn't have all the wear and tear that a normal 34 yr old would have.

 

New head coach is another reason to have some hesitation. Of course the injury from last year also hurts.

 

Horn has said that conservative playcalling is what hurt his production the most (1 TD last year). And he insists he will be dominate this year and is all about Payton's playbook. I think Horn will be a stud and worth a #1 fantasy wr this year.

[DrJ 0]

Age is one obvious thing to look at, however, he sat a few years in KC, so he doesn't have all the wear and tear that a normal 34 yr old would have.

 

New head coach is another reason to have some hesitation. Of course the injury from last year also hurts.

 

Horn has said that conservative playcalling is what hurt his production the most (1 TD last year). And he insists he will be dominate this year and is all about Payton's playbook. I think Horn will be a stud and worth a #1 fantasy wr this year.

 

34 is 34. The number of guys that have been in the top 12 WR's at that age is pretty danged short - it's been done about 16 times since 1960.

 

Jerry Rice in 96, 98, 01, 02

Cris Carter in 99, 00

Tim Brown in 00, 01

Irving Fryar in 96, 97

Galloway in 05

Pete Retzlaff in 1965

Charlie Joiner in 1981

James Lofton in 1991

Art Monk in 1991

Frank Lewis in 1981

 

It's far more likely that Horn will fit into the late teens/early 20's like Jimmy or Rod Smith.

 

Did he ever have the best speed. I just thought it was his routes, moves and catching ability that made the plays more than his speed. i don't think he was ever a super fast WR to begin with.

 

Losing some quickness would obviously effect his moves.

[Rye & Leaf 0]

The guy talks in the third person too much and it turns off perspective owners?

 

Anyway, this guy was a stud, but it does look like Stall is finally emerging, and in the games i saw, he was targeted more than Horn in the red zone. I think Horn will put up decent numbers this year but they will be very similar to Stall's, so there is no definitive #1 on this team any longer.

[GiantsFan11 0]

34 years old and coming off a down (injury year) knocks him down a couple of notches

 

Brees is likely to be asked to throw less than Brooks and likely to use lots of screen/dump passes to Bush (less opportunity for Horn)

 

Horn has to be looked at 15 WRs into the draft in my book, but I think any higher there are safer picks with just as much...or almost as much upside

[Kitsnow 0]

I'll draft antonio bryant before horn. I hope people grab him rounds 4-5-6

[thebook 1]

Admittedly, I was burned by Horn last year (4th round pick) but I just don't see him coming back to the WR#1 level of his past. I think he has number of factors working against him: age (and the associated injuries), an emerging Donte Stallworth, a new QB, and an offense that looks to be run-oriented with Deuce and Bush. I take him as no better than a WR#3 this year. 65 catches, 800 yards, 5-6 TDs.

[JT 137]

I look at Horn and think Keenan McCardell in 2005. Veteran WR, maybe relying more on technique than athleticism, with a QB like Brees that relies on timing more than arm strength. Saints other WR may out produce their '05 Charger counterparts, but I doubt NO will get as much from the TE spot.

 

Should translate into 70-75 rec/1000 yds/ 9-12 TD for Horn.

[football_scooter 0]

Well let's see...

 

He was hurt last year, which might have something to do with being older. And he's anotheryear older this year.

 

He also has a QB who's coming off of a repaired torn rotator cuff, which is often career ending for a QB. I thought it was interesting that San Diego waited to hear from his doctors prior to offering Brees a contract renewal, then when they heard from them, they declined. To me that put up a big red flag on Brees.

 

Plus Brees was pretty mediocre before 2004, even being labeled a bust. That's with a great O-Line and the best RB in the NFL (IMO). Now he's got a mediocre O-line and an odd-couple RBBC of mcAllister returning from severe injury and rookie prodegy Bush.

 

Now let's get to the coaching. I don't envision this as a pass-happy offense, though I concede that they may have to be at times because despite some improvements, the defense in NO is still the suck. Trouble is that I don't see Brees as being able to step in and carry that team through the air.

 

All in all, Horn might still have it. Hell, he should be able to put up 1100/7 in his sleep - but he could also pop a hammy by week 6, or Brees could be terrible, or the whole offense could struggle, or any one of a hundred other terrible things.

 

It's a gamble I'm not likely to take unless it's a low stakes league or Horn falls ridiculously low to me. There's just too much opportunity for failure. I think the Saints are going to be a horrible team this year and I'm avoiding them every chance I get.

 

One man's opinion.

[jocstrap 8]

Qb position really scares me - Brees was let go and he's been a top 10er the last two years. Why - shoulder injuries for a qb are serious.

 

The only bright spot is that they will be behind 75% of the time forcing them to throw.

 

34.5 years old is real old also. No way a young db sprat is going to let ol' horn juke him no way. 2nd wr would be the only way he would end up my roster and I'm not taking him in the 4th round.

[listen2me 23 1,545]

Ill take him as a late #2 WR....maybe I can grab him in the 7th....and stock pile RBs and grab a elite TE...

 

Horn as a #1 WR this year is a stretch in my book tho....

[Zackattack 0]

I hear he is in great shape and ready for a good year. He has been working with Brees too. The question is who will Brees target more? Him or Stallworth? Last year Stallworth was getting more looks late in the year. I wouldn't reach before the 6th round. this year on him for sure.

[akaoni 0]

I think that I'm going to pass on Horn this year, unless he falls deep in the draft. There are just too many things going against him. Age and recent injuries are likely to slow Horn. Horn has been an over-acheiver who has worked magic with only average physical gifts in the past. Eventually, his age will catch up with him, and when it does, I think that his numbers will drop off precipitously. Add the fact that Brees' already weak arm will likely be hampered by injury, and you have many reasons to avoid Joe.

 

The only thing that helps his stock is the fact that New Orleans will be consistently playing from behind this year. Still, I don't think that this fact will boost Horn's stats significantly. Instead, I'll take a solid guy like Housh (I'm in a PPR league), who appears to be going at a similar ADP, or wait for an upside guy like Evans or Clayton.

[g5jamz 0]

Look how low ESPN had the ADP value on Antonio Bryant. Something to look for in the later rounds.

[t.j 35]

Did he ever have the best speed. I just thought it was his routes, moves and catching ability that made the plays more than his speed. i don't think he was ever a super fast WR to begin with.

 

Jerry Rice never had the best speed either, but he still lost his effectiveness eventually.

[TheGiantJets 18]

Jerry Rice never had the best speed either, but he still lost his effectiveness eventually.

 

Yeah and a little heart too. Everyone has an end at some point. I just don't believe or maybe i just refuse to believe that its Horns end.

[Junkie 0]

Well let's see...

 

He was hurt last year, which might have something to do with being older. And he's anotheryear older this year.

 

He also has a QB who's coming off of a repaired torn rotator cuff, which is often career ending for a QB. I thought it was interesting that San Diego waited to hear from his doctors prior to offering Brees a contract renewal, then when they heard from them, they declined. To me that put up a big red flag on Brees.

 

Plus Brees was pretty mediocre before 2004, even being labeled a bust. That's with a great O-Line and the best RB in the NFL (IMO). Now he's got a mediocre O-line and an odd-couple RBBC of mcAllister returning from severe injury and rookie prodegy Bush.

 

Now let's get to the coaching. I don't envision this as a pass-happy offense, though I concede that they may have to be at times because despite some improvements, the defense in NO is still the suck. Trouble is that I don't see Brees as being able to step in and carry that team through the air.

 

All in all, Horn might still have it. Hell, he should be able to put up 1100/7 in his sleep - but he could also pop a hammy by week 6, or Brees could be terrible, or the whole offense could struggle, or any one of a hundred other terrible things.

 

It's a gamble I'm not likely to take unless it's a low stakes league or Horn falls ridiculously low to me. There's just too much opportunity for failure. I think the Saints are going to be a horrible team this year and I'm avoiding them every chance I get.

 

One man's opinion.

 

 

I was going to say almost the exact same thing.

 

If there is a Saints player I'd take a chance on late, it's Stallworth. I expect Horn to start off with respectable #'s, but by mid-season, after the Saints go 1-6 (or something like that), expect a QB change. Brees will stink it up, and Horn, healthy or not, will suffer. I see his ceiling at 65/1000/7, but given the circumstance surrounding him, his age, and hammy problems of late, I'd bet he doesn't do that well.

 

To me, he's a sketchy WR2 at this point.

[heavy-set 39]

because he was bad last year.

because he got the contract he wanted, and mailed it in

because he is old

becasue he has been dinged in the past

it takes old men longer to heal

becasue drew brees doesnt have antonio gates

[De Novo 0]

I was actually thinking the same thing. I'm hoping to get him in like the 5th or 6th round like i did Steve Smith last year. I always look for stars who had dropped off the previous year in those rounds and it normally pays off for me. The only question really is how healthy is Brees shoulder? Will he return to form or will he be Chad Pennington. Hopefully Brees gets enough reps in preseason games so we can find out.

 

Brees missing 3 fingers on each hand is an upgrade at QB over Aaron Brooks. HTH

 

an emerging Donte Stallworth

 

We hear it every year

[texasmouth 1]

I think Joe Horn is just flying under the radar for now while people take a wait and see attitude on Brees. I think Brees is a slight upgrade over Brooks, but not much. A lot of people want to bag on Brooks because he had an off year but if you compare stats between Brees and Brooks, it is pretty close with Brooks having a slight edge.

 

Brooks:

1563/2771 19156 Yards 56.4 Comp % 120 Touchdowns 84 Int

 

4 Seasons with 3500+ yards 2 with 3800+ yards

 

With the exception of last year he also had 4 straight seasons with 20+ TD

 

Brees:

1125/1809 12,348 yards 62.2 Comp% 80 Touchdowns 53 Int

 

1 Season with 3500+ yards. Has never thrown for more than 3576.

 

Only 2 seasons with more than 20 TD.

 

 

I am probably in the minority here but I think a lot of Brees's success came from the addition of Antonio Gates and a veteran receiver in Keenan McCardell, not to mention having a guy like LT to dump the ball off to. San Diego also had a pretty solid offensive line.

 

Either way, I think Joe Horn's stock will start rising again once Brees shows that he is fully recovered from the shoulder injury. If not, who would be the starter?