Favre pissed!

[hoffdaddy 1]

Couple things. First of all why are we starting from scratch after sherman? People like to forget sherman built a superbowl contending team year in and year out... and his last year went 4-12 because he had 4 injured WR's and 5 injured RB's. The team was still there to contend. Thompson comes in and dismantles that team... not shermans fault.

 

Second thing is even if I give you that he has to 'rebuild'... it doesnt matter. That doesnt excuse bad drafting. Bad free agency moves. It might excuse bad records for mccarthy.... but it doesnt do anything for thompson. Look at thompsons drafts, they are a$$-awful. He reaches for guys way too early and they never pan out. AJ Hawk is his only hit... and it was totally obvious. Most of his very few free agents fail (Adrian Klemm, Matt Odwyer, Boerigter, Gardner, Ben Taylor, Manuel). He hit on pickett and woodson.

 

Please tell me why Ted Thompson is even an average GM. He is terrible! And everyone in GB seems to like him. My point here is... Sherman should be irrelevant to the conversation.

 

Please tell me this is a joke.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Sherman

Out of 27 draft picks made by Mike Sherman and Ron Wolf or Mike Sherman alone, only seven are ranked as at least white-chip players (rating of 5 or higher). The other 20 players could rightfully be judged as NFL failures. Only three of the 27 draft picks were rated as red-chip players or better (Javon Walker, Aaron Kampman, and Nick Barnett) while two others are good, mid-level white-chip players (Scott Wells and Hunter Hillenmeyer - now with the Chicago Bears).

 

2001 Draft (Mike Sherman and Ron Wolf):

Here is an analysis of Mike Sherman and Ron Wolf's 2001 draft class. Each player is ranked on a continuum scale from 1 to 10, with 1 signifying a poor draft pick and 10 signifying a blue-chip player: (1=bust, 5=white-chip player, 8=red-chip player, 10=blue-chip player)

 

Player (Position) Round Drafted (Overall) Ranking

Jamal Reynolds (DE) 1 (10) 1

Robert Ferguson (WR) 2 (41) 3

Bhawoh Jue (CB) 3 (71) 2

Torrance Marshall (ILB) 3 (72) 3

Bill Ferrario (OG) 4 (105) 2

David Martin (WR) 6 (198) 4

 

 

2002 Draft (Mike Sherman):

Here is an analysis of Mike Sherman's 2002 draft class. Each player is ranked on a continuum scale from 1 to 10, with 1 signifying a poor draft pick and 10 signifying a blue-chip player: (1=bust, 5=white-chip player, 8=red-chip player, 10=blue-chip player)

 

Player (Position) Round Drafted (Overall) Ranking

Javon Walker (WR) 1 (20) 9

Marques Anderson (S) 3 (92) 4

Najeh Davenport (FB) 4 (135) 6

Aaron Kampman (DE) 5 (156) 8

Craig Nall (QB) 5 (164) 4

Mike Houghton (OL) 6 (200) 1

 

 

2003 Draft (Mike Sherman):

Here is an analysis of Mike Sherman's 2003 draft class. Each player is ranked on a continuum scale from 1 to 10, with 1 signifying a poor draft pick and 10 signifying a blue-chip player: (1=bust, 5=white-chip player, 8=red-chip player, 10=blue-chip player)

 

Player (Position) Round Drafted (Overall) Ranking

Nick Barnett (LB) 1 (29) 8

Kenny Peterson (DL) 3 (79) 3

James Lee (DT) 5 (147) 1

Hunter Hillenmeyer (LB) 5 (166) 7

Brennan Curtin (OT) 6 (212) 2

Chris Johnson (DB) 7 (245) 3

DeAndrew Rubin (WR) 7 (253) 1

Carl Ford (WR) 7 (256) 3

Steve Josue (LB) 7 (257) 2

 

 

2004 Draft (Mike Sherman):

Here is an analysis of Mike Sherman's 2004 draft class. Each player is ranked on a continuum scale from 1 to 10, with 1 signifying a poor draft pick and 10 signifying a blue-chip player: (1=bust, 5=white-chip player, 8=red-chip player, 10=blue-chip player)

 

Player (Position) Round Drafted (Overall) Ranking

Ahmad Carroll (CB) 1 (25) 2

Joey Thomas (CB) 3 (70) 1

Donnell Washington (DT) 3 (72) 1

B.J. Sander (P) 3 (87) 1

Corey Williams (DT) 6 (179) 1

Scott Wells © 7 (251) 7

[listen2me 23 1,545]

"Driver is a #1 You are an idiot to think otherwise."

 

 

Well in that case... My opinion has changed completely.

 

Good.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Yes.

 

In todays NFL I expect 3 years. Maybe not to compete for a SB but be in the playoffs and contend, even more so in today's NFC.

 

All I am trying to prove is that by the time we will expect results, we may have a new raw QB that we will have to go through a 2 years grooming process.

 

We are in the middle of rebuilding, why doesnt TT ask Favre to step down, or do it behind closed doors where Favre can just retire and everyone would have thought he was content with his career.

 

I dont want to be the Lions. I don't want 5 years of 4-12. We saw improvment last year. I hope it continues. Because there will be a BIG bump in the road when Favre chooses to leave.

 

Therein lies the problem. I don't think they are on any unreasonable time frame for improving.

They were a game out last year...might take a small step back this year with the schedule...but are close to playoffs right now.

 

I expect results too.

 

I think the first two years of it he knew Rodgers would get killed behind that line.

 

And I don't see them becoming the Lions. They have had one 4-12 year...not years of futility.

[Phurfur 70]

Just for those who thought Ted should have gone more offense with the first pick....here is a little breakdown.

 

WRs.

Of the top 15 WRs in receptions last year...6 were first round draft picks (1 was undrafted, 2-7th rounders, 1-4th rounder, 3-3rd rounders, 2-2nd rounder) for a total of 9 that were non-1st round picks.

RBs.

Of the top 15 RBs in rushing yards last year...7 were first round picks (1-undrafted, 1-6th round, 1-4th round, 2-3rd round, 3-2nd round) for a total of 8 that were non first round picks.

TEs.

Of the top 15 TEs in receptions last year...5 were 1st round picks...(3-undrafted, 1-6th round, 2-4th round, 2-3rd round, 2-2nd round) for a total of 10 that were non-1st round picks.

 

I understand what you are trying to say but you actually prove that your best chance at a top RB, WR, TE is in the first round. You are comparing 1 round with 6 rounds or one pick against 6 picks.

[Sho Nuff 719]

I understand what you are trying to say but you actually prove that your best chance at a top RB, WR, TE is in the first round. You are comparing 1 round with 6 rounds or one pick against 6 picks.

 

What I prove is that alot of those guys were not first round picks.

It is not necessary to draft a guy in those rounds.

 

But looking at all of the numbers...generally yes, you will have a better chance for a top player if you chose him in the first round.

It mirrors in nearly every category.

DEs 8-1st round vs 7-non-1st rounders when ranked by tackles last year

DTs 7-1st round vs 8-non-first round picks when ranked by tackles last year.

 

So why just take a WR then? When you show you can get that talent elsewhere. Especially with Thompson showing it the last 2 years in his drafting of Murphy and Jennings? Why is it so important?

 

I simply think there is value in those 2nd and 3rd rounds and that is what he went for...and I prefer it to the types of WRs that went in that 16-25 range.

[hoffdaddy 1]

What I prove is that alot of those guys were not first round picks.

It is not necessary to draft a guy in those rounds.

 

So why just take a WR then? When you show you can get that talent elsewhere. Especially with Thompson showing it the last 2 years in his drafting of Murphy and Jennings? Why is it so important?

 

I simply think there is value in those 2nd and 3rd rounds and that is what he went for...and I prefer it to the types of WRs that went in that 16-25 range.

 

 

Right on again.

[Bouve-Rules 0]

Favre has a right to be pissed..... we all do. Moss didn't want to play in Green Bay, he wanted to play with Brett Favre. Moss has a man-crush on Favre almost as big as John Madden. Any Packer/Viking fan knows this from the years they competed against each other.

 

Thompson had a golden opportunity to land a game-changer in Moss and choked. Risk? What risk? $3M a year? A 4th round pick? Please, how is that mortgaging the future?

 

Favre thought our draft sucked. I thought our draft sucked. Sports Illustrated thought our draft sucked (only NFC team with 'D' grade). Even Ted admitted that some things didn't work out as he had hoped.

 

Good GM's don't hope for things to happen.

Good GM's make things happen.

Good GM's don't get surprised by late trade offers from New England.

Good GM's aren't second-guessed by 80% of your team's fans.

 

2006's Charles Woodson = 2007's Keyshawn Johnson. Enough to get people off his back, but not enough to make a difference.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Favre has a right to be pissed..... we all do. Moss didn't want to play in Green Bay, he wanted to play with Brett Favre. Moss has a man-crush on Favre almost as big as John Madden. Any Packer/Viking fan knows this from the years they competed against each other.

 

Thompson had a golden opportunity to land a game-changer in Moss and choked. Risk? What risk? $3M a year? A 4th round pick? Please, how is that mortgaging the future?

 

Favre thought our draft sucked. I thought our draft sucked. Sports Illustrated thought our draft sucked (only NFC team with 'D' grade). Even Ted admitted that some things didn't work out as he had hoped.

 

Good GM's don't hope for things to happen.

Good GM's make things happen.

Good GM's don't get surprised by late trade offers from New England.

Good GM's aren't second-guessed by 80% of your team's fans.

 

2006's Charles Woodson = 2007's Keyshawn Johnson. Enough to get people off his back, but not enough to make a difference.

 

Game changer? Since when?

Was it just 3 mil per year? Was it the 3 mil guaranteed? Where did Favre come up with that number?

 

I think Ted's admitting things may not have worked out were more inline with not getting Lynch and the Moss deal he thought he had not going through.

 

I could care less if you thought it sucked. I thought they had a solid draft. Not spectacular, not horrible. Did SI base their draft grade on not getting Moss? On how they did not draft for Favre? Because many I have seen have based their grade on that. Sorry, not how I draft grades.

 

Really? Good GMs don't hope a guy falls to them? They all trade up all the time right? Nope.

 

Many GMs are second guessed by the fans. If they took fan-polls to run their decisions every team would be signing big time free agents and in cap trouble.

 

Would Moss have made much of a difference than Keyshawn could? I don't think so.

[PackerAttacker 0]

Because when Thompson took over after Sherman he was given a team in cap hell, with little to no depth at key positions on both lines.

 

Super Bowl contending year in and year out? Not totally...but it was Sherman who got them in a bad situation personnel and cap wise and that is what Thompson tore down 2 years ago, and started rebuilding last year.

Yes...given the age, lack of depth, and cap situation...Thompson tearing it down was due to Sherman's miscues as a GM.

 

Bad drafting? Like Collins, Jennings, Murphy (sorry, not Thompson's fault the guy had a condition found by injury that ended his career), Hawk, Poppinga, Hodge, College, Spitz, Moll.

Trades for Morency, bringing in Woodson, Pickett...

Hawk is the only hit? Hah!!!!!!!

 

Sherman is very much a part of the conversation as to why the team is as young as it is...and why there needed to be a rebuild.

 

Collins - Drafted in 2nd round, experts had him as 5th rounder. Good rookie year, terrible last year until very end of season... needs to prove himself this year. NOT a 2nd round talent so far.

 

Jennings - Looked like a great pick. Then got injured and did nothing the 2nd half of the year. Also considered a reach in the 2nd round. Note we could of taken Chad Jackson AND Jennings.... and not taken Cory Rodgers. Just sayin.

 

Murphy - Good pick. Hard to tell with the short time frame but he looked good. I agree with your assessment of the injury.. not thompsons fault.

 

Hawk - Good pick. (Hard to screw up).

 

Poppinga - Guy was terrible... couldnt cover a TE to save his life. Is nothing more than a fill in guy.

 

Hodge - Everyone raves about him... but wasnt able to contribute much at all.

 

Colledge and Moll - Started due to having no other choices. Reached for Colledge in the 2nd round and offered "He is the most ready OL in the draft" as a reason. He was then not able to start early on. Both guys looked average.

 

 

And as I said before... look at all the guys misses. Face it.... he hasnt done much at all. The only thing I will give him, is its still early to put a final grade on his drafts. You need to give people a few years to develop. But looking at it right now... Im not impressed.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Collins - Drafted in 2nd round, experts had him as 5th rounder. Good rookie year, terrible last year until very end of season... needs to prove himself this year. NOT a 2nd round talent so far.

 

Your problem is you are valuing experts (most of whom are writers and not scouts) and their opinions on where guys should go. They also had a guy this year rated as a 2nd/3rd rounder...Ben Patric was drafted in the 7th. When they are wrong and overvalue a guy, they call it a steal when he is finally drafted. When they are wrong and undervalue a guy, they call it a reach. Instead of just admitting they really had no clue where the guy would or should go.

 

Collins played very well his first year...was a bit out of place last year (as were all of the DBs early on). So far he has shown he was worth a 2nd rounder playing at least decent in his first 2 seasons as a pro.

 

Jennings - Looked like a great pick. Then got injured and did nothing the 2nd half of the year. Also considered a reach in the 2nd round. Note we could of taken Chad Jackson AND Jennings.... and not taken Cory Rodgers. Just sayin.

 

Still looks like a great pick...you cannot say until an injury. The guy was playing very well. He will still have to improve but looks like a great pick. Rodgers did suck. But what exactly has Chad Jackson done?

 

Murphy - Good pick. Hard to tell with the short time frame but he looked good. I agree with your assessment of the injury.. not thompsons fault.

Agreed

 

Hawk - Good pick. (Hard to screw up).

Some wanted Vernon Davis, some wanted a DT there last year.

 

Poppinga - Guy was terrible... couldnt cover a TE to save his life. Is nothing more than a fill in guy.

 

I think he was adequate...for a later round guy...his coverage is an issue. I believe he will end up being the backup this year as it makes more sense now to move Barnett to the outside and let Hodge play in the middle.

 

 

That is because Barnett is in front of him.

 

Colledge and Moll - Started due to having no other choices. Reached for Colledge in the 2nd round and offered "He is the most ready OL in the draft" as a reason. He was then not able to start early on. Both guys looked average.

 

Both in their first year, with a new system in place on the team. All 3 played well down the stretch and showed improvement during the season. Again, a reach is in respect to where some viewed guys should go. And how often are those so-called "experts" correct past the first several picks?

 

And as I said before... look at all the guys misses. Face it.... he hasnt done much at all. The only thing I will give him, is its still early to put a final grade on his drafts. You need to give people a few years to develop. But looking at it right now... Im not impressed.

 

As I said before...there are fewer misses than you really think. He has hit on quite a few guys and has drafted very well.

[PackerAttacker 0]

Please tell me this is a joke.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Sherman

Out of 27 draft picks made by Mike Sherman and Ron Wolf or Mike Sherman alone, only seven are ranked as at least white-chip players (rating of 5 or higher). The other 20 players could rightfully be judged as NFL failures. Only three of the 27 draft picks were rated as red-chip players or better (Javon Walker, Aaron Kampman, and Nick Barnett) while two others are good, mid-level white-chip players (Scott Wells and Hunter Hillenmeyer - now with the Chicago Bears).

 

2001 Draft (Mike Sherman and Ron Wolf):

Here is an analysis of Mike Sherman and Ron Wolf's 2001 draft class. Each player is ranked on a continuum scale from 1 to 10, with 1 signifying a poor draft pick and 10 signifying a blue-chip player: (1=bust, 5=white-chip player, 8=red-chip player, 10=blue-chip player)

 

Player (Position) Round Drafted (Overall) Ranking

Jamal Reynolds (DE) 1 (10) 1

Robert Ferguson (WR) 2 (41) 3

Bhawoh Jue (CB) 3 (71) 2

Torrance Marshall (ILB) 3 (72) 3

Bill Ferrario (OG) 4 (105) 2

David Martin (WR) 6 (198) 4

2002 Draft (Mike Sherman):

Here is an analysis of Mike Sherman's 2002 draft class. Each player is ranked on a continuum scale from 1 to 10, with 1 signifying a poor draft pick and 10 signifying a blue-chip player: (1=bust, 5=white-chip player, 8=red-chip player, 10=blue-chip player)

 

Player (Position) Round Drafted (Overall) Ranking

Javon Walker (WR) 1 (20) 9

Marques Anderson (S) 3 (92) 4

Najeh Davenport (FB) 4 (135) 6

Aaron Kampman (DE) 5 (156) 8

Craig Nall (QB) 5 (164) 4

Mike Houghton (OL) 6 (200) 1

2003 Draft (Mike Sherman):

Here is an analysis of Mike Sherman's 2003 draft class. Each player is ranked on a continuum scale from 1 to 10, with 1 signifying a poor draft pick and 10 signifying a blue-chip player: (1=bust, 5=white-chip player, 8=red-chip player, 10=blue-chip player)

 

Player (Position) Round Drafted (Overall) Ranking

Nick Barnett (LB) 1 (29) 8

Kenny Peterson (DL) 3 (79) 3

James Lee (DT) 5 (147) 1

Hunter Hillenmeyer (LB) 5 (166) 7

Brennan Curtin (OT) 6 (212) 2

Chris Johnson (DB) 7 (245) 3

DeAndrew Rubin (WR) 7 (253) 1

Carl Ford (WR) 7 (256) 3

Steve Josue (LB) 7 (257) 2

2004 Draft (Mike Sherman):

Here is an analysis of Mike Sherman's 2004 draft class. Each player is ranked on a continuum scale from 1 to 10, with 1 signifying a poor draft pick and 10 signifying a blue-chip player: (1=bust, 5=white-chip player, 8=red-chip player, 10=blue-chip player)

 

Player (Position) Round Drafted (Overall) Ranking

Ahmad Carroll (CB) 1 (25) 2

Joey Thomas (CB) 3 (70) 1

Donnell Washington (DT) 3 (72) 1

B.J. Sander (P) 3 (87) 1

Corey Williams (DT) 6 (179) 1

Scott Wells © 7 (251) 7

 

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Im saying Sherman is irrelevant to the conversation. Ill give mccarthy a pass if you buy into the sherman was bad thing. But not Thompson.... sherman being terrible has no effect on thompson making bad draft picks. In fact, in a way it makes drafting easier... because you have more holes to fill thus more options at each pick. But apparently Thompson thought DL was a position of need... which makes no sense whatsoever.

[Sho Nuff 719]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Im saying Sherman is irrelevant to the conversation. Ill give mccarthy a pass if you buy into the sherman was bad thing. But not Thompson.... sherman being terrible has no effect on thompson making bad draft picks. In fact, in a way it makes drafting easier... because you have more holes to fill thus more options at each pick. But apparently Thompson thought DL was a position of need... which makes no sense whatsoever.

 

How is Sherman (who was the GM before Thompson and left the team in a crappy position) irrelevant to the conversation?

He is a big reason why the team needed to be rebuilt.

He is a big reason why Thompson had to try and make a few moves that first year on the cheap (the Klemm and O'Dwyer pickups)

 

And I don't see many people besides you calling Thompson's draft picks that bad.

 

DL and OL are places where many feel you build a championship team. That if you can win the battles up front, it makes everything else much easier.

[Bouve-Rules 0]

Game changer? Since when?

Was it just 3 mil per year? Was it the 3 mil guaranteed? Where did Favre come up with that number?

 

I think Ted's admitting things may not have worked out were more inline with not getting Lynch and the Moss deal he thought he had not going through.

 

I could care less if you thought it sucked. I thought they had a solid draft. Not spectacular, not horrible. Did SI base their draft grade on not getting Moss? On how they did not draft for Favre? Because many I have seen have based their grade on that. Sorry, not how I draft grades.

 

Really? Good GMs don't hope a guy falls to them? They all trade up all the time right? Nope.

 

Many GMs are second guessed by the fans. If they took fan-polls to run their decisions every team would be signing big time free agents and in cap trouble.

 

Would Moss have made much of a difference than Keyshawn could? I don't think so.

 

Sho: Why do you take the Thompson bashing so personal?

 

Moss defined game-changer. He sucked in Oakland - big deal. Why do you think Favre was so pissed we didn't get him? Why do you think Brady wanted him bad enough to re-work his contract? They know what he's capable of given the proper surroundings. I'm surprised you don't see the immediate impact he would bring to our offense.

 

I'll grant you that draft evaluation is subject to interpretation. That being said, how can give Thompson a thumb's up after our draft results. In your opinion, which picks in 2007 feel like someone slid to us or we got value at that particular pick? The kicker doesn't count.

 

Thompson's best move to date: Letting Rivera and Wahle leave via free agency. Hell of a job, Ted. Keep up the good work.

[PackerAttacker 0]

How is Sherman (who was the GM before Thompson and left the team in a crappy position) irrelevant to the conversation?

He is a big reason why the team needed to be rebuilt.

He is a big reason why Thompson had to try and make a few moves that first year on the cheap (the Klemm and O'Dwyer pickups)

 

And I don't see many people besides you calling Thompson's draft picks that bad.

 

DL and OL are places where many feel you build a championship team. That if you can win the battles up front, it makes everything else much easier.

 

People arent calling his picks that bad??? I thought the 'experts' didnt know anything (according to your earlier post).

 

Like I said, I think Sherman matters to the conversation when speaking about team record, free agency perhaps etc..... its irrelevant to a draft. You either draft good players, or you dont. Thompson simply has not. This team is spiraling downward. When Favre leaves we have NOTHING to build around on offense. Most of the players worth anything are old (even though we supposedly have this big youth movement). Harris and Woodson are getting up there and we have no one behind them. We have 1 safety if you consider collins the answer. Our DL is set... and it was before the draft. I just dont see where Thompson comes up with this stuff. There is no way to defend DT with that first pick. I agree its an important position, but we were already sured up there. Its just puzzling. Throw Reggie Nelson or Leon Hall in our seconday and we have sured up a need AND have another young guy to build around.

[donhaas 18]

Board etiquette 101

 

Hoffdad: please have the common courtesy to place a NFSW if you're going to post something like Sherman's drafting record again.

 

That was brutal

 

I almost lost my lunch

[mozzy84 0]

lots of favre/thompson bashing all day today on espn radio

 

Actually hearing favres comments really makes you go shut up Favre, you're not a randy moss away from the super bowl anyways...

[Sho Nuff 719]

Sho: Why do you take the Thompson bashing so personal?

 

Moss defined game-changer. He sucked in Oakland - big deal. Why do you think Favre was so pissed we didn't get him? Why do you think Brady wanted him bad enough to re-work his contract? They know what he's capable of given the proper surroundings. I'm surprised you don't see the immediate impact he would bring to our offense.

 

I'll grant you that draft evaluation is subject to interpretation. That being said, how can give Thompson a thumb's up after our draft results. In your opinion, which picks in 2007 feel like someone slid to us or we got value at that particular pick? The kicker doesn't count.

 

Thompson's best move to date: Letting Rivera and Wahle leave via free agency. Hell of a job, Ted. Keep up the good work.

 

Because I defend the guy against some criticism that I do not think has merit...that means Im taking it personal?

 

Key part of your statement..."defined"...past tense. He has had 3 years in a row that were subpar.

 

How can I give him a thumbs up? Because I liked what he has done his first two drafts. I think he goes for a particular type of guy...and thus far has hit on guys that were able to come in and contribute right away.

 

Rouse was value...then again, value is based on the perception of where some writers have pegged people to go.

 

Letting Wahle leave? That was his worst move actually.

 

People arent calling his picks that bad??? I thought the 'experts' didnt know anything (according to your earlier post).

 

Like I said, I think Sherman matters to the conversation when speaking about team record, free agency perhaps etc..... its irrelevant to a draft. You either draft good players, or you dont. Thompson simply has not.

 

That is your opinion...certainly drafting guys that have been able to contribute and play well from the start seems to prove otherwise.

 

This team is spiraling downward. When Favre leaves we have NOTHING to build around on offense. Most of the players worth anything are old (even though we supposedly have this big youth movement). Harris and Woodson are getting up there and we have no one behind them. We have 1 safety if you consider collins the answer. Our DL is set... and it was before the draft. I just dont see where Thompson comes up with this stuff. There is no way to defend DT with that first pick. I agree its an important position, but we were already sured up there. Its just puzzling. Throw Reggie Nelson or Leon Hall in our seconday and we have sured up a need AND have another young guy to build around.

 

I disagree...there is youth on the line, at WR, at RB, and 2 young QBs already there...how is that nothing to build on?

 

There are plenty of ways to defend DT with that pick...outside of Pickett...there was not a guy out there that can bring to the table the type of play Harrell has shown when healthy.

 

Nelson? No thanks...I don't want an idiot playing that safety position.

[hoffdaddy 1]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Im saying Sherman is irrelevant to the conversation. Ill give mccarthy a pass if you buy into the sherman was bad thing. But not Thompson.... sherman being terrible has no effect on thompson making bad draft picks. In fact, in a way it makes drafting easier... because you have more holes to fill thus more options at each pick. But apparently Thompson thought DL was a position of need... which makes no sense whatsoever.

 

No offense dude, but I'm not following your logic for one second.

 

If they have a lot of holes to fill, that means they have a lot of options to pick from right? To me, that means one single player in the first round does not make or break a draft. You have to fill out your team at every possible position, so even drafting a TE in round one doesn't matter. Nor does drafting a WR in round 1. If I have ten holes to fill, and we'll say rounds 1-3 really are immediately helpful guys, then that leaves an awful lot of gaps from year to year. Once again, you can't rebuild your talent core in two-three years. Not completely anyway.

 

Unlike you, it was pretty clear to me that Mike Sherman is the main reason that this team's core base of talent is depleted. You can blame Thompson all you want, but go check out how many of Sherman's picks are still in the league.....Cletidus Hunt? Torrence Marshall? Steve Josue? Joey Thomas? Ahmad Carrol? Fact is, the draft is supposed to set your team up for the long haul. Thank Sherman for making that impossible in Green Bay.

 

And your last point contradicts everything else. When you start drafting based on need, that's when you get into trouble. Exhibit A: Ahmad Carrol and Joey Thomas. Everyone knew Green Bay needed Dbacks, so they took these guys to fill needs. How'd that work out?

 

shut up Favre, you're not a randy moss away from the super bowl anyways...

 

And that my friends, is the friggin point. It burns my ass to see impatient Packer fans sitting around thumping their chests about how Thompson isn't doing anything. Let's face the friggin' facts here folks. Randy Moss does not win Green Bay a Super Bowl in 2007 or 2008. He couldn't do it in his focking prime in Minnesota, and he sure as hell isn't going to do it in Green Bay with an over the hill Favre.

 

The sooner all of us face reality, the better.

[Grateful Parrot 0]

 

 

And your last point contradicts everything else. When you start drafting based on need, that's when you get into trouble. Exhibit A: Ahmad Carrol and Joey Thomas. Everyone knew Green Bay needed Dbacks, so they took these guys to fill needs. How'd that work out?

 

Don't forget trading up in the 3rd for a punter. How'd that work out? Lot of money spent there.

[XToday 0]

I wanted Moss not to win the superbowl, as he realistically wouldn't affect much. I wanted Moss to make Packer games more interesting for awhile. To me, having the Favre-to-Moss hookups, even if only for a year, was worth 3-4 mil and a 4th round pick. And it wouldn't have affected TT's rebuilding project much, unless you consider Moss improving the team enough for a bit later draft position. Right now, and I'm not going to look back at the hundred previous posts to see who said it, but I believe the Packers are shaping themselves up to be a 'poor man's' Baltimore or Tampa Bay-- all D and little O. Sure, that combination accidentally won a couple superbowls recently, but how fun was the journey? Blah...

[Parja 0]

And what happens if Driver gets injured? They could easily be 4-12 all over again.

[Sho Nuff 719]

I wanted Moss not to win the superbowl, as he realistically wouldn't affect much. I wanted Moss to make Packer games more interesting for awhile. To me, having the Favre-to-Moss hookups, even if only for a year, was worth 3-4 mil and a 4th round pick. And it wouldn't have affected TT's rebuilding project much, unless you consider Moss improving the team enough for a bit later draft position. Right now, and I'm not going to look back at the hundred previous posts to see who said it, but I believe the Packers are shaping themselves up to be a 'poor man's' Baltimore or Tampa Bay-- all D and little O. Sure, that combination accidentally won a couple superbowls recently, but how fun was the journey? Blah...

 

Fock the journey...if it wins a ring I am all for it.

 

Look at how much time some of the last several Patriot teams spent as far as big time free agents and draft picks on offense. How did they do?

[swamp dog 0]

sho, how can rodgers not be a wasted pick when "he doesn't appear to be anything special and doesn't appear to be the long-term answer."

 

you're contradicting yourself again.

 

Maybe TT's planning on winning like Chicago-strong D and a good running game. I don't think the D is at the level of Chicago's, although all the young players could develop in a couple of years into a real force.

 

Unfortunately, we don't have the RB's to field a strong, ball-control type of game (I'm not convinced Jackson's the man). If that's the theory, well, great. It certainly worked for Chicago, and the Packer's offence with Favre should be better overall than Chicago's. I think the problem is that by the time the D comes around, Favre will be gone and we'll be stuck with Rodgers at QB.

 

I don't know. Maybe it's a great plan for long-term success. But if that's the case, trade Favre to a team that needs a QB and let Rodgers get experience. It would also free up a ton of cap space. As a Packer fan I certainly don't want to see him in any other team's colours, but it would make sense. At best this team squeeks into the playoffs, where they'd likely be out in the first round. Then again, maybe it would be best to suck for a few years and get some high draft picks. Although TT would probably just use them to reach for guys that were projected to go a round later.

 

As for the comments from Swamp about a team leader not speaking out against the organization. Well, maybe if someone had spoken out about Millen a few year's back, the Lions wouldn't still be in a rebuilding phase.

 

look, it's pretty simple: tt doesn't think the packers are close to a super bowl and he's building for further down the road. he isn't copying anyone's system. he correctly knows that the packers aren't going to be contenders before favre sails off into the sunset and thus he's ignoring the short-term and favre's whining and wish lists.

 

how is that not apparent to you packer fans?

[Sho Nuff 719]

sho, how can rodgers not be a wasted pick when "he doesn't appear to be anything special and doesn't appear to be the long-term answer."

 

Read that whole thread...read what my comments were in reference to and in response to. It was quite clear my line of reasoning was that if they were willing to deal him, it appears he is not anything special or the long term solution.

The fact that he has not yet had the chance to play shows that you cannot yet call him a wasted pick.

 

Was Steve Young a wasted pick since it took him so long to pan out?

 

 

you're contradicting yourself again.

 

No, you are just parsing words and twisting again. Nothing new here.

 

 

look, it's pretty simple: tt doesn't think the packers are close to a super bowl and he's building for further down the road. he isn't copying anyone's system. he correctly knows that the packers aren't going to be contenders before favre sails off into the sunset and thus he's ignoring the short-term and favre's whining and wish lists.

 

how is that not apparent to you packer fans?

 

Funny, I agree with you and have said the same thing...so how is it not apparent?

[listen2me 23 1,545]

Fock the journey...if it wins a ring I am all for it.

 

Look at how much time some of the last several Patriot teams spent as far as big time free agents and draft picks on offense. How did they do?

 

Dillon, they bring in random guys at WR, guys who are someone, not guys named holliday and Ruvall Martin.

 

It helps when you find a all time great QB in the 6th or whatever round too....lets not mention the second to none coaching. They have a QB in his prime to lead them, we have fading brett and an untested 1st rounder, which each year looks like a wasted 1st rounder for TT.

[swamp dog 0]

Read that whole thread...read what my comments were in reference to and in response to. It was quite clear my line of reasoning was that if they were willing to deal him, it appears he is not anything special or the long term solution.

The fact that he has not yet had the chance to play shows that you cannot yet call him a wasted pick.

 

Was Steve Young a wasted pick since it took him so long to pan out?

No, you are just parsing words and twisting again. Nothing new here.

 

you've got to be kidding...lame. even (again) for you. at least put a smiley face beside this post so we know you're kidding.

 

good god.

 

Fock the journey...if it wins a ring I am all for it.

 

Look at how much time some of the last several Patriot teams spent as far as big time free agents and draft picks on offense. How did they do?

 

um, the packers aren't the patriots.

 

not by a long shot. no team is the patriots except the patriots.

[remote controller 133]

Great Norse Battle Dome material going to waste

[listen2me 23 1,545]

Wouldn't you think by now if Rodgers showed any signs of being a 1st round talent that he would play?

 

If you all say TT is doing it HIS way and he wont bow down to Favre then why doesnt he play HIS guy?...Its been 3 years. That is enough time for Rodgers to be ready. It makes no sense. Someone please tell me how TT makes any sense here.

 

I was never a Rodgers Fan, Everyone passed on him for a reason. Damn Packer drafts have been hard to watch lately, and actually awhile, they are so bad in teh 1st round over the years.

 

But think of our recent drafts

 

Carroll-reach, wasn't too excited.

Rodgers- We knew he would be a backup for at least a year or 2....Everyone passed on him, he doesnt excite anyone.

Hawk- Good Pick, but it was obvious. Kind of a boring pick when the draft was on.

Harrell-Somewhat of a reach. No one talked about this guy, wasn't excited.

[swamp dog 0]

Great Norse Battle Dome material going to waste

 

post 109

 

this thread has some legs

 

part of the problem is that donhass--the starter of most favre threads--peeked in here, made a comment about driver, and then ran for the hills as fast as he could.

 

sho's been twisting in the wind a bit, but the bottomline is that a lot of packer fans agree with the everyone else outside of green bay on this one...so the thread hasn't achieved it's true battldome potential

[remote controller 133]

You were on a roll with 9 posts on page 1, then you backed off, and only posted 4 more times. This one any good? (thread)

 

I haven't really read a post , and have no idea who stands where, but this is what I think. Favre has every right to be pissed, as Thompson has done nothing to get him play makers. He complimented the defense for the teams success last season, and just wants a few weapons to try to go out on a high. Thompson thinks he's some sort of guru, and needs to get his $h!t together and realize this is it. (this season) It has been depressing. i had hopes of contending with the Bears, but now feel .500 would be asking alot.

[swamp dog 0]

You were on a roll with 9 posts on page 1, then you backed off, and only posted 4 more times. This one any good? (thread)

 

I haven't really read a post , and have no idea who stands where, but this is what I think. Favre has every right to be pissed, as Thompson has done nothing to get him play makers. He complimented the defense for the teams success last season, and just wants a few weapons to try to go out on a high. Thompson thinks he's some sort of guru, and needs to get his $h!t together and realize this is it. (this season) It has been depressing. i had hopes of contending with the Bears, but now feel .500 would be asking alot.

 

a lot of favre's comments this week hinged on moss...do you think moss was that big of a difference? frankly, i never understood the interest in moss, nor do i like moss as a player right now. that aside, favre sure did pick this particular battle as "the" one that the packers management could prove to him they still loved favre and were serious about winning now. again, i think it's more symbolic as the packers are more than a washed-up moss away from making serious noise.

 

but brett is stamping his feet and pouting about it. and, yes, i have a problem with him whining in public like that. i said back in the summer of 2005 that he risked tarnishing his career and rep by hanging on (not to mention hamstringing the packers rebuilding process). so he played in 2005, threw a boatload of ints and guided the packers to a 4-12 record. he played the "will he or won't he" game again last year, came back, was still mediocre as a qb and the packers finished 8-8 (despite a boatload of blowout losses). and to top that off, he started whining and moaning now about the packers keeping him in the dark and how he wasn't sure if they love him anymore

 

you tell me: would it have been better for brett AND the packers had brett retired two years ago--let alone one year ago, let alone this offseason?

 

the answers to those questions are why this thread isn't going anywhere. the answers are black and white

[donhaas 18]

 

part of the problem is that donhass--the starter of most favre threads--peeked in here, made a comment about driver, and then ran for the hills as fast as he could.

 

 

I just bump your threads every year where you say Favre sucks and you wouldn't take Favre even in the 12th round and then he finishes in the top-10.

 

Not neccessarily "starting Favre threads"

 

"Ran for the hills" is incorrect because I never opined either way on the topic...

 

What do you want to know?

[swamp dog 0]

I just bump your threads every year where you say Favre sucks and you wouldn't take Favre even in the 12th round and then he finishes in the top-10.

 

Not neccessarily "starting Favre threads"

 

"Ran for the hills" is incorrect because I never opined either way on the topic...

 

What do you want to know?

 

that didn't take long. but still weak and a bit tail-between-the-legs for you, don.

 

care to weigh on on THIS topic in this thread?

 

:popcorn:

[donhaas 18]

 

you tell me: would it have been better for brett AND the packers had brett retired two years ago--let alone one year ago, let alone this offseason?

 

 

 

Was it better for barry sanders to retire early for the Lions??

 

Did that help them get a jump on rebuilding??

 

14-94 since he left

 

 

Maybe not

[swamp dog 0]

Was it better for barry sanders to retire early for the Lions??

 

Did that help them get a jump on rebuilding??

 

14-94 since he left

Maybe not

 

care to weigh on on THIS topic in this thread?

 

:popcorn:

 

 

You were on a roll with 9 posts on page 1, then you backed off, and only posted 4 more times. This one any good? (thread)

 

see don's last two posts...that should tell you how this thread is going

[remote controller 133]

a lot of favre's comments this week hinged on moss...do you think moss was that big of a difference? frankly, i never understood the interest in moss, nor do i like moss as a player right now. that aside, favre sure did pick this particular battle as "the" one that the packers management could prove to him they still loved favre and were serious about winning now. again, i think it's more symbolic as the packers are more than a washed-up moss away from making serious noise.

 

but brett is stamping his feet and pouting about it. and, yes, i have a problem with him whining in public like that. i said back in the summer of 2005 that he risked tarnishing his career and rep by hanging on (not to mention hamstringing the packers rebuilding process). so he played in 2005, threw a boatload of ints and guided the packers to a 4-12 record. he played the "will he or won't he" game again last year, came back, was still mediocre as a qb and the packers finished 8-8 (despite a boatload of blowout losses). and to top that off, he started whining and moaning now about the packers keeping him in the dark and how he wasn't sure if they love him anymore

 

you tell me: would it have been better for brett AND the packers had brett retired two years ago--let alone one year ago, let alone this offseason?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nutz!

 

the answers to those questions are why this thread isn't going anywhere. the answers are black and white

It still doesn't even approach walking away from your teamates and tarnishing his image like barry did. I didn't want Moss, and am glad they didn't get him. They did, however, need to draft a weapon with their first pick. They lost lynch........................You can't tell me Will Ferrel was their fall back plan. The TE would have sufficed nicely with their first pick , and went a long way in giving favre a weapon. Swamp, you're nuts if you don't realize he is still, by far, the best Qb in the Norse.

[McWin 0]

Take away Desmond Howard, and no one would even be discussing Fav-re today, he would be sitting on his porch in MS after retiring years ago.

 

 

Fav-re

[Sho Nuff 719]

Dillon, they bring in random guys at WR, guys who are someone, not guys named holliday and Ruvall Martin.

 

It helps when you find a all time great QB in the 6th or whatever round too....lets not mention the second to none coaching. They have a QB in his prime to lead them, we have fading brett and an untested 1st rounder, which each year looks like a wasted 1st rounder for TT.

 

Dillon was there for one SB in 2004...the other two were won without him.

Someone?

2003 SB team (their 2nd SB)

WRs of Troy Brown, David Givens, Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson, David PatteRn, JJ Stokes, Dedric Ward...the last two having all of 22 receptions between them and a total of 1 reception for Ward in the postseason that year.

 

Those guys?

PatteRn was undrafted but did very little before coming in...he was for all intents and purposes a nobody...not as well known as say...Koren Robinson.

Johnson was drafted by New England, Brown was drafted by New England, Branch was drafted by New England, Givens was drafted by New England.

 

So much for that theory of yours. Especially considering that Dillon was the only offensive skill position guy brought in for the 2004 team after the 2003 SB win....the WRs remained with Brown, Branch, Givens, PatteRn, and Johnson.

 

Yup, it does help when you find a great QB as well...but why do you still think Rodgers just looks like a wasted 1st rounder before he even sets foot on the field as a starting QB? If Favre retires this year and Rodgers plays in 2008...plays ok enough, shows improvement and then continues to be the starter...is it still a wasted pick?

 

Care to go back and look at anyone projected at that point in the draft and see where they are? I know one many people talked about the Packers taking was Matt Roth out of Iowa. Care to look at his resume in the NFL?

 

you've got to be kidding...lame. even (again) for you. at least put a smiley face beside this post so we know you're kidding.

 

good god.

 

Why would I be kidding...its the honest truth...unlike the crap for spin you are putting up in this thread in your attempts to show something. Time to move on swamp...you are way out of your league when facts of what was actually said are brought up.

 

um, the packers aren't the patriots.

 

not by a long shot. no team is the patriots except the patriots.

 

Im not saying they are...but look at one of the most successful recent teams...did they go out and just buy a bunch of free agent talent or spend a ton of time picking up top guys in the draft on offense? Nope (this year being the exception). They simply drafted alot of defense for years...and were led by that defense and by a QB who knew how to play in the system, be very efficient, and not put the team in bad positions.

 

Im not saying they have that talent...yet...but just showing there is not just one way to do things. Drafting and signing the skill positions looks great in April and May...looks flashy...gets all the highlights...but come October/November/December of the season...means nothing if you suck up the middle on offense and defense (the places Thompson has been working to solidfy).

 

Wouldn't you think by now if Rodgers showed any signs of being a 1st round talent that he would play?

 

Has he played often enough to even show it? You think he takes that many reps in practice? You think any coach is going to be the one to end the streak and not start Favre?

 

If you all say TT is doing it HIS way and he wont bow down to Favre then why doesnt he play HIS guy?...Its been 3 years. That is enough time for Rodgers to be ready. It makes no sense. Someone please tell me how TT makes any sense here.

 

To an extent...yes, I think TT is doing it his way...but also not wanting to be the guy to cut or trade Favre. He knows that he needs to try and let Favre go out on his own terms as much as possible.

It has been 2 years of Rodgers being on the team...this is his 3rd year. His rookie year the line was crap...2-3 new starters. Last year, to star the year...the line again had 3 new starters. Is that where you want your QB of the future stepping in?

 

I was never a Rodgers Fan, Everyone passed on him for a reason. Damn Packer drafts have been hard to watch lately, and actually awhile, they are so bad in teh 1st round over the years.

 

Everyone passed on Brady for a reason too? Favre too? Brady Quinn even. Cutler, Leinart....and so on. Sometimes the more pressing needs for teams win out.

 

Actually I have enjoyed the past 3 drafts much better than those of Mike Sherman.

So bad in the 1st round? Hawk was that bad?

 

But think of our recent drafts

 

Carroll-reach, wasn't too excited.

Rodgers- We knew he would be a backup for at least a year or 2....Everyone passed on him, he doesnt excite anyone.

Hawk- Good Pick, but it was obvious. Kind of a boring pick when the draft was on.

Harrell-Somewhat of a reach. No one talked about this guy, wasn't excited.

 

Carroll was a Sherman fock up...that whole draft sucked ass and got the guy canned.

So what is wrong with having a backup for a while. AS I have said many times....for years people whined that the Packers were not doing something to address life after Favre...they finally draft a replacement that falls to them in the first...now they should not have done it because he has been a backup for 2 years.

 

Hawk...while it seemed obvious...many called for drafting a DT or Vernon Davis there...

 

Harrell. a reach to some yes.

 

But I find it funny...with Rodgers falling...to you he was not a "steal" just that everyone passed on him. So if guy falls further than he should...something must be wrong with him...but if a team likes a guy and takes him ahead of projections...its just a reach. I don't see it as much of a reach given right after the pick Denver traded up to make sure they got the guy they wanted (because as it has been reported they wanted either Harrell or Moss).

 

Take away Desmond Howard, and no one would even be discussing Fav-re today, he would be sitting on his porch in MS after retiring years ago.

Fav-re

 

 

Yeah...cause Favre did nothing that year or in that game...

[swamp dog 0]

It still doesn't even approach walking away from your teamates and tarnishing his image like barry did. I didn't want Moss, and am glad they didn't get him. They did, however, need to draft a weapon with their first pick. They lost lynch........................You can't tell me Will Ferrel was their fall back plan. The TE would have sufficed nicely with their first pick , and went a long way in giving favre a weapon. Swamp, you're nuts if you don't realize he is still, by far, the best Qb in the Norse.

 

barry?!! where did that come from? whoa...concentrate: this thread is about favre. nice deflection (to use a sho line ).

 

it has nothing to do with favre being the best qb in the norris division. completely irrelevant. my two questions: has favre's image been tarnished the last two seasons? has the packers rebuilding been stunted by favre being around and the packers not knowing what to do with him (keep him informed, not pissing him off, whatever)? the answers, i think, to those questions are quite clear. barry (lol) and brett's status among qbs in the norris is irrelevant. come on.

[Sho Nuff 719]

barry?!! where did that come from? whoa...concentrate: this thread is about favre. nice deflection (to use a sho line ).

 

it has nothing to do with favre being the best qb in the norris division. completely irrelevant. my two questions: has favre's image been tarnished the last two seasons? has the packers rebuilding been stunted by favre being around and the packers not knowing what to do with him (keep him informed, not pissing him off, whatever)? the answers, i think, to those questions are quite clear. barry (lol) and brett's status among qbs in the norris is irrelevant. come on.

 

Tarnished? Maybe a bit...the not deciding what to do before last year and the current whines might do that a little. In the long run, after a few years of being retired, that type of thing will be forgotten.

 

Stunted them. The last 2 years I don't think so that much. Given putting Rodgers in there might have stunted his own future behind that line in 2005.