Who should be drafted higher than Randy Moss - redraft ?

[mgs316 14]

Wow, I can't believe some of these arguements.

 

How do you guys rank players? I'm willing to bet it has to do somewhat with past performance, correct? But for Randy past performance doesn't matter?

 

10 total seasons

7 double digit td seasons.

4 seasons over 15 td's

3 seasons over 17 td's.

 

Just to compare players, Randy has been better then Chad Johnson in every season basically except his two years in the Black Hole. Even in one of those Oak years it was 1400/9 vs. 1000/8, and in lower yardage leagues that is hardly that big of a difference.

 

His ceiling is higher then any other player other then LT and maybe AP. But WR's are more finicky week to week then RB's so that is really the only thing I would take into account. High ranked RB's fail just as much as high ranked WR's, so I'll take a guy with a proven track record and the highest ceiling...that would be Randy "The Freak" Moss.

 

Plus he isn't that old, he's 31, big fricken deal.

[holamolla 0]

He had 8 TDs in 2005 which just goes to the point that you can't pencil him in for 17 TDs automtaically.

 

Where did I downgrade Moss? I said he's a top WR - but may not end up as the top WR. I just don't see him necessarily as head and shoulders above guys like TO, Wayne, CJ, Smith AJ. It wouldn't shock me if any of those guys outproduced him.

 

I'm just disagreeing with the premise that Moss is a LOCK for 17 TDs - when that seldom happens.

pretty sure he didn't have brady throwing to him in 05. Moss should and will go at the middle/end of round one. If you would rather have Lynch/gore/portis/mccghee/grant you are just one of those guys who won't take anything but a running back in the first. those backs have far more bust potential than moss does and less upside.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Read much MB???

 

I wouldn't take Randy in the first round anyway, even if I thought he would duplicate his #'s from last year, however, I already came clean and said that. I neither trust Randy nor TO.

 

I'll say it again... Please just stand up and say I don't like Randy Moss... And be done with it... Instead of trying to cram this crap down our throats... You obviously just don't like the guy, plain and simple... So quit with all the BS false logic, it's making you just look silly...MB

 

PS. I'm not stating he's a solid early first round pick, but a high second for sure, and prolly still the best (1st) fantasy WR to be drafted in 2008... Unless your biased or just plain stupid...

 

And I'm saying (again) that I won't skimp on other areas that I deem more important just to obtain a player like Randy Moss that I have little faith in and that I certainly won't hesitate to bypass Randy Moss if he's available to fill an RB or QB spot and "settle" for someone like Wayne, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson or the like. I'll let guys like you blow your wad on Randy in the first and either have a hole at the QB or RB spot and watch you hope to get lucky later on this years Earnest Graham or something.

[Dr. Octopus 0]

pretty sure he didn't have brady throwing to him in 05. Moss should and will go at the middle/end of round one. If you would rather have Lynch/gore/portis/mccghee/grant you are just one of those guys who won't take anything but a running back in the first. those backs have far more bust potential than moss does and less upside.

 

Some people completely miss the point of the post they quote.

 

I had the #12 pick in my re-draft last year and took Steve Smith and CJ. If I had that pick again this year, I'd strongly consider Moss.

 

I don't see him as a mid-first round pick or a lock for 17 TDs.

 

Anyone want a sig bet that at least one WR finishes ahead of Randy Moss next season? Everyone acts as if no other WR can approach Moss because of last season.

[Mad Brad 0]

Read much MB???

 

And I'm saying (again) that I won't skimp on other areas that I deem more important just to obtain a player like Randy Moss that I have little faith in and that I certainly won't hesitate to bypass Randy Moss if he's available to fill an RB or QB spot and "settle" for someone like Wayne, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson or the like. I'll let guys like you blow your wad on Randy in the first and either have a hole at the QB or RB spot and watch you hope to get lucky later on this years Earnest Graham or something.

 

 

You go ahead and draft your "Frank Gore's" of the world then at that draft spot and we'll see who has the hole in his line-up at seasons end... Your league mates, the guys who will win, will thank you for the 2008 donation... (Sho) nuff said... MB

[DankNuggs 305]

I wouldn't take Randy in the first round anyway, even if I thought he would duplicate his #'s from last year

 

 

As said by Apollo Creed...... "Spoken like a true azzhole"

[DankNuggs 305]

Read much MB???

 

And I'm saying (again) that I won't skimp on other areas that I deem more important just to obtain a player like Randy Moss that I have little faith in and that I certainly won't hesitate to bypass Randy Moss if he's available to fill an RB or QB spot and "settle" for someone like Wayne, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson or the like.

given the % rate of 1st round RB Busts, i think your goal in rd 1 is to grab the highest guaranteed production that you can.

 

You can't win the league in the first round, but you can certainly lose it or put yourself in a deep hole.

[scherber830 0]

Again, age and attitude count. And he has both working against him in general.

 

reggie wayne - birthday: 11/17/1978

randy moss - birthday: 2/13/1977

 

Not even a 2 year difference.

 

 

Attitude? Moss had no incidents in 2007 w/ the Patriots. in 08, Moss is still w./ the Patriots.

 

Moss > Wayne.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Some people completely miss the point of the post they quote.

 

I had the #12 pick in my re-draft last year and took Steve Smith and CJ. If I had that pick again this year, I'd strongly consider Moss.

 

I don't see him as a mid-first round pick or a lock for 17 TDs.

 

Anyone want a sig bet that at least one WR finishes ahead of Randy Moss next season? Everyone acts as if no other WR can approach Moss because of last season.

 

I loaded up on WR last year because everybody went apesh!t over QB, so I took the "value" picks. And for 3 friggin weeks I was unfreakingtouchable with Steve Smith, Roy Williams, Donald Driver, Kevin Curtis, Wes Welker (on my bench) and even Antonio Gates (who fell because then everybody who took a QB early was scrambling for WR). My friggin WR were scoring more than entire teams, I had the #2, #3 and #6 highest scoring WR. I traded Curtis and Lamont Jordan for Lynch and Lee Evans cause I wanted RB depth and was waiting for what always happened, Evans to explode in the 2nd half of the season, and cause I had more than enough WR strength. Right about week 4 the well went dry...by the end of the season I didn't have one WR in the top 10 anymore. Anybody who banks on WR to carry a team is a chasing fools gold IMO. They're as hard to predict as RB and can't, unlike RB, be backed up with a handcuff pick.

[The Moz 71]

I didn't know it was going to be the exact same offense and everything that happened last season would be repeated. Sorry I change my mind then.

 

I didn't say he'd bust, just return to a normal level for him - which would still make him one of the best if not the best.

 

So if Moss only scored 14 TDs (which is a very high number for a WR) you'd be absolutely shocked?

 

 

Okay - tell me what changed ??? QB - no , WR's - not really , Oline - not that I know of , OC - no , philosophy - why change a system that had them as one of if not the greatest statistical offense ever.

 

To me anyhting less than 1400 yards and 15 scores is a mini bust for Randy this season. - He is the best WR in football , has the #1 or #2 QB in football and a great Oline to allow him to get really deep !

 

Only if he becoems a headcase again or gets injured will he not dominate.

[jgcrawfish 232]

reggie wayne - birthday: 11/17/1978

randy moss - birthday: 2/13/1977

 

Not even a 2 year difference.

Attitude? Moss had no incidents in 2007 w/ the Patriots. in 08, Moss is still w./ the Patriots.

 

Moss > Wayne.

 

Not arguing that. Never said Wayne was better. My point all along has been the same, I don't feel like paying the high price that getting Randy will require this year since I don't place 1st or even early 2nd round value on him. And yes, there is less than 2 yrs age difference there, but it equates to 3 extra seasons. Wayne isn't a WR predicated on pure speed like Randy is, although Randy gets bonus pts for size and leaping ability which don't necessarily deteriorate the same way that speed does in older WR. All I've said is that I trust Wayne as a pick more than I trust Randy, particularly since I can get him at lower price. So to sum it up as best I can and so perhaps MB can grasp it...there is no WR who should be picked ahead of Randy, since there is no WR in my book which has the physical skills he does short of Calvin Johnson who hasn't proven to be the same caliber of player. I personally would much rather take an RB or QB in place of Randy and be happier with that and a WR of Wayne's caliber at least a few picks later.

[The Moz 71]

Some people completely miss the point of the post they quote.

 

I had the #12 pick in my re-draft last year and took Steve Smith and CJ. If I had that pick again this year, I'd strongly consider Moss.

 

I don't see him as a mid-first round pick or a lock for 17 TDs.

 

Anyone want a sig bet that at least one WR finishes ahead of Randy Moss next season? Everyone acts as if no other WR can approach Moss because of last season.

 

DO okay I won't say " lock " anymore - I will say he " should " get 17 scores given his situation and his talent.

 

Were talking about a guy who a lot of people consider the most talented WR ever. Granted Rice was better but not as naturally gifted ( he just outworked anyone else ). Were not talking about a guy who had one good season. Other than in Oakland where the team sucked , QB sucked , morale sucked , coach sucked he has shined whenever he was healthy.

 

I admit I am maybe not a great person to debate this as my man lovin for Randy seems to really know no bounds. I just think who else other than - LT, Westbrook , AD and MAYBE Addai and Sjax can put up the number Randy SHOULD ?

[DankNuggs 305]

DO okay I won't say " lock " anymore - I will say he " should " get 17 scores given his situation and his talent.

 

Were talking about a guy who a lot of people consider the most talented WR ever. Granted Rice was better but not as naturally gifted ( he just outworked anyone else ). Were not talking about a guy who had one good season. Other than in Oakland where the team sucked , QB sucked , morale sucked , coach sucked he has shined whenever he was healthy.

 

I admit I am maybe not a great person to debate this as my man lovin for Randy seems to really know no bounds. I just think who else other than - LT, Westbrook , AD and MAYBE Addai and Sjax can put up the number Randy SHOULD ?

The answer is none Moz.

[Dr. Octopus 0]

DO okay I won't say " lock " anymore - I will say he " should " get 17 scores given his situation and his talent.

 

Were talking about a guy who a lot of people consider the most talented WR ever. Granted Rice was better but not as naturally gifted ( he just outworked anyone else ). Were not talking about a guy who had one good season. Other than in Oakland where the team sucked , QB sucked , morale sucked , coach sucked he has shined whenever he was healthy.

 

I admit I am maybe not a great person to debate this as my man lovin for Randy seems to really know no bounds. I just think who else other than - LT, Westbrook , AD and MAYBE Addai and Sjax can put up the number Randy SHOULD ?

 

By no means will I argue that Moss can't or even will not be the #1 WR in 2008. I realize his talent and situation. I just don't think he'll dominate the WR rankings like last season for a number of reasons (#1 being NE's offense slowed down alot at season's end and I see a return to a more normal offense this season).

 

So to me I wouldn't "reach" for him when I think he will not outperform some other WRs by such a large margin next year. Thinking more in VBD terms. Late first round, he's a consideration. Mid first round I take a back and a second round WR that will be alot closer to Moss than the second roun RB will be to the first round RB (in theory at least).

[The Moz 71]

By no means will I argue that Moss can't or even will not be the #1 WR in 2008. I realize his talent and situation. I just don't think he'll dominate the WR rankings like last season for a number of reasons (#1 being NE's offense slowed down alot at season's end and I see a return to a more normal offense this season).

 

So to me I wouldn't "reach" for him when I think he will not outperform some other WRs by such a large margin next year. Thinking more in VBD terms. Late first round, he's a consideration. Mid first round I take a back and a second round WR that will be alot closer to Moss than the second roun RB will be to the first round RB (in theory at least).

 

 

So you think having say Lynch / B. Edwards is better than R. Moss / W. Parker ?

[DankNuggs 305]

VBD has huge inherant flaws in it... most notably the concept of variance.

[Dr. Octopus 0]

VBD has huge inherant flaws in it... most notably the concept of variance.

 

I'm not going strictly by it just thinking in that general way.

[Dr. Octopus 0]

So you think having say Lynch / B. Edwards is better than R. Moss / W. Parker ?

 

Right now I haven't put enough thought into it or made projections yet (its April dammit), but I don't think I'd consider Lynch a mid-first round pick if that helps.

 

I do however see Edwards as not so far off from Moss.

[jgcrawfish 232]

So you think having say Lynch / B. Edwards is better than R. Moss / W. Parker ?

 

Honestly, yes, I'd take Lynch/Edwards over Moss/Parker right now. I see the upside of Lynch as being greater than that of Parker (says something since I'm a Steelers fan) and I would definitely value the consistency that both bring over what I'm afraid I'll see from Moss and what I know I'll see from Parker. But that's just me.

[Mad Brad 0]

Honestly, yes, I'd take Lynch/Edwards over Moss/Parker right now. I see the upside of Lynch as being greater than that of Parker (says something since I'm a Steelers fan) and I would definitely value the consistency that both bring over what I'm afraid I'll see from Moss and what I know I'll see from Parker. But that's just me.

 

 

Every village has one... MB

 

ps. I can't wait to discuss Moss's 2008 seasons numbers when the time comes... Get that big bowl of crow ready, fishboy...