Trouble trading

[phlegmish 4]

Any in here have problems getting people to trade in their leagues. We're a 12 team, full-format keeper league since 1994 and I've managed only three trades since we converted and I can't seem to drum up ANY interest from my mates. All positions are mandatory with rosters 3/4/5/2/2/2, see mine below. For the most part our draft is rookie heavy since we keep everyone we want and even injured or retired players have stayed on rosters (Barry Sanders was carried for 5 years by his owner for fear he'd come back!).

 

Is there something in our format causing this?

 

What seems to make them work in your leagues? the owners? the players?

 

As an example I draft #12 this year. I offered #2 and #3 Lendale White and the #12 last week and neither has even responded. Last night I asked #1 what it would take to get his pick.......SJax and #12 came back as response. I countered with Lendale, Coles and #12. It was laughed at. I for one considered his thought process flawed. He said Sjax at 24 is less valuable than a potential home-run in the draft. Dynasty ranking from Kilroy would indicate White alone is at par with McF whom I am sure he is targeting and adding Coles and #12 should tip the scales heavy in his favor.

 

I'm just looking for some methods or added options any of you have found that seem to open the doors...

 

Any comments are welcomed..

[jgcrawfish 232]

Any in here have problems getting people to trade in their leagues. We're a 12 team, full-format keeper league since 1994 and I've managed only three trades since we converted and I can't seem to drum up ANY interest from my mates. All positions are mandatory with rosters 3/4/5/2/2/2, see mine below. For the most part our draft is rookie heavy since we keep everyone we want and even injured or retired players have stayed on rosters (Barry Sanders was carried for 5 years by his owner for fear he'd come back!).

 

Is there something in our format causing this?

 

What seems to make them work in your leagues? the owners? the players?

 

As an example I draft #12 this year. I offered #2 and #3 Lendale White and the #12 last week and neither has even responded. Last night I asked #1 what it would take to get his pick.......SJax and #12 came back as response. I countered with Lendale, Coles and #12. It was laughed at. I for one considered his thought process flawed. He said Sjax at 24 is less valuable than a potential home-run in the draft. Dynasty ranking from Kilroy would indicate White alone is at par with McF whom I am sure he is targeting and adding Coles and #12 should tip the scales heavy in his favor.

 

I'm just looking for some methods or added options any of you have found that seem to open the doors...

 

Any comments are welcomed..

 

I'm getting the same thing in my league. It's odd that people overvalue their own players only and WAY overvalue the higher draft spots. Reality is that McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall might never start and this could go down as one of the worst RB draft classes ever. Lendale to me has turned into a borderline #2RB but nobody wants to sacrifice what MAY be a potential #1 back for it. And in most people's minds, it's McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall, then everybody else, 1 top tier, then the "who cares" tier. From my perspective, I'd trade my #1 for SJax, probably straight up. At most I'd ask for a 2nd round pick.

 

I, like you, have tried very hard to make what I thought were very reasonable trade offers. I need a QB and we have a guy w/ Ben and Romo. I have the 1.02, 1.10 and 2.02 (12 team) league, so I have some pretty high picks to bargain with. I offered him a good backup QB (who's arguably a top 12 QB anyway) in Eli + 1.10 for Ben + his 2.11. In my mind Ben and his one good season isn't worth higher than a top 10 pick, and the best QB in this draft could turn out better than Ben and won't get picked until around there anyway. My thought was that he gets a good backup and a chance at either the 1st-3rd best WR prospect or 1st-2nd best QB prospect. He doesn't own a 1st round pick anyway, and he can wait on a QB or WR prospect to develop because he has young top 5 qb already. But no. I'm finding it very difficult to make any "fair" trades happen, so I can definitely sympathize.

[Phil Simms 11 127]

it all depends on the league you're in. I play in 4-5 leagues, and some of them trade frequently while other NEVER trade. It's obviously more fun if trades are involved.

[ROYALWITCHEESE 0]

I'm getting the same thing in my league. It's odd that people overvalue their own players only and WAY overvalue the higher draft spots. Reality is that McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall might never start and this could go down as one of the worst RB draft classes ever. Lendale to me has turned into a borderline #2RB but nobody wants to sacrifice what MAY be a potential #1 back for it. And in most people's minds, it's McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall, then everybody else, 1 top tier, then the "who cares" tier. From my perspective, I'd trade my #1 for SJax, probably straight up. At most I'd ask for a 2nd round pick.

 

I, like you, have tried very hard to make what I thought were very reasonable trade offers. I need a QB and we have a guy w/ Ben and Romo. I have the 1.02, 1.10 and 2.02 (12 team) league, so I have some pretty high picks to bargain with. I offered him a good backup QB (who's arguably a top 12 QB anyway) in Eli + 1.10 for Ben + his 2.11. In my mind Ben and his one good season isn't worth higher than a top 10 pick, and the best QB in this draft could turn out better than Ben and won't get picked until around there anyway. My thought was that he gets a good backup and a chance at either the 1st-3rd best WR prospect or 1st-2nd best QB prospect. He doesn't own a 1st round pick anyway, and he can wait on a QB or WR prospect to develop because he has young top 5 qb already. But no. I'm finding it very difficult to make any "fair" trades happen, so I can definitely sympathize.

 

 

No offense, but I wouldn't accept your offer either. Big Ben is WAY more valuable than Eli, and in that division he will be in many shootouts. Eli is in a tough division and has never impressed. If you really want Ben, take out the draft pick on his end. That is a pretty good starting point.

 

I was having a similar problem in my dynasty league. Everyone is afraid of being a "rape victim" in a trade, so very few people make moves in a dynasty. You have to really make a sweet offer. The key is to make several fair trades, and not screw anyone over, to get a trust with the other owners. Heck I even overpay sometimes INTENTIONALLY, because I know that it will build a trading bridge with that owner for a long time. The key is to establish this type of relationship with several owners, and trading will become easier. I know the basic instinct is to "win" the trade, but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture in dynasty/full keeper leagues.

 

Here are a few deals I have made (considered overpay at the time, but worked out in the long run) in my dynasty:

 

a) In 2006 I traded Caddy, Colston, and Pennington for Brady, Reggie Brown, and Chris Perry. He basically picked up two starters for Brady (he has Eli and is a Giants fan), and I picked up a starting QB. This was back when Brady had nothing at WR and was really stinking it up. At the time, the league said I gave up too much. But in retrospect, it was a pretty fair deal.

 

b ) Last year I dealt my #1 rookie pick (ended up being #9 overall), and Andre Davis (post AJohnson injury) for Dwayne Bowe. I did it to make a run at the chip, but Roy went down with a knee. The owner was really deep at WR and expressed regret of dealing Bowe. So I offered the following:

 

c) Bowe, Edge, and a 2nd rounder for Chad Johnson this off-season. On the surface it looks like I gave up a ton, but in actuality what changed hands was Edge, a 1st, a 2nd, and Andre Davis for Chad. I paid him handsomely without giving up the farm for Chad. And I know he will trade with me in the future, and I quote "Man you offer the most fair trades in the league".

 

With this type of dealing, I have built a team (in 2004) of ABrooks, Edge, Jordan, RMoss, Wayne, DBennett to the following team in 2008: Brady, AD, Grant, Maroney, RMoss, Chad, Roy Williams.

 

I have parted with Colston, Wayne, Caddy and Bowe at various times but I think I have a true year in and year out contender now.

[the_risen_demon 0]

No offense, but I wouldn't accept your offer either. Big Ben is WAY more valuable than Eli, and in that division he will be in many shootouts. Eli is in a tough division and has never impressed. If you really want Ben, take out the draft pick on his end. That is a pretty good starting point.

 

I was having a similar problem in my dynasty league. Everyone is afraid of being a "rape victim" in a trade, so very few people make moves in a dynasty. You have to really make a sweet offer. The key is to make several fair trades, and not screw anyone over, to get a trust with the other owners. Heck I even overpay sometimes INTENTIONALLY, because I know that it will build a trading bridge with that owner for a long time. The key is to establish this type of relationship with several owners, and trading will become easier. I know the basic instinct is to "win" the trade, but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture in dynasty/full keeper leagues.

 

Here are a few deals I have made (considered overpay at the time, but worked out in the long run) in my dynasty:

 

a) In 2006 I traded Caddy, Colston, and Pennington for Brady, Reggie Brown, and Chris Perry. He basically picked up two starters for Brady (he has Eli and is a Giants fan), and I picked up a starting QB. This was back when Brady had nothing at WR and was really stinking it up. At the time, the league said I gave up too much. But in retrospect, it was a pretty fair deal.

 

b ) Last year I dealt my #1 rookie pick (ended up being #9 overall), and Andre Davis (post AJohnson injury) for Dwayne Bowe. I did it to make a run at the chip, but Roy went down with a knee. The owner was really deep at WR and expressed regret of dealing Bowe. So I offered the following:

 

c) Bowe, Edge, and a 2nd rounder for Chad Johnson this off-season. On the surface it looks like I gave up a ton, but in actuality what changed hands was Edge, a 1st, a 2nd, and Andre Davis for Chad. I paid him handsomely without giving up the farm for Chad. And I know he will trade with me in the future, and I quote "Man you offer the most fair trades in the league".

 

With this type of dealing, I have built a team (in 2004) of ABrooks, Edge, Jordan, RMoss, Wayne, DBennett to the following team in 2008: Brady, AD, Grant, Maroney, RMoss, Chad, Roy Williams.

 

I have parted with Colston, Wayne, Caddy and Bowe at various times but I think I have a true year in and year out contender now.

 

While I agree with some of the points you made, I have to disagree with the principle behind your statement that I highlighted. Bowe increased in value from the time you wisely traded for him, and that increase in value should not be discounted. Let's say you bought a stock at $20 and it went up to $50. If I offer you $40 for it, you should laugh at me. It's a loss of $10, not a gain of $20. If you choose to deal away that value for the future return that comes with the reputation of being a fair trade partner, well that's a viable strategy. But it's that same pretzel logic that sometime kills deals. Someone might have given up a king's ransom for Shaun Alexander prior to 2006. If he wants fair value for Alexander now, he'll need to set his sights a fair bit lower.

 

What would I suggest to increase trading? Communication always helps. Good trades center around moving your players to an owner who values them higher, and getting players in return that you value more highly than your trade partner. It sounds obvious, but without open and honest communication there's no way to know where other owners value their own players, or to let them know what you would accept for your own. If I have a player I want to move because I feel he is generally overvalued, I talk him down. Soon enough someone will inquire about him. The owners in my league who always talk about their players like they walk on water rarely receive trade offers, and it is their loss.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

I am in 1 league where there probably has been 15-20 trades since the end of last season, and 30-50 trades a year. In another league probably 10-15 trades a year is average. My main league probably averages about 5 trades a year.

 

There is alot of difference between leagues. If you want to trade alot, join a small money league composed entirely of people from fantasy football sites. Those seem to be the most active.

[VaTerp 0]

My league has a strict limit on the total number of waiver pickups for the season along with deep rosters (20). I like it and think it encourages trading. We have a high number of trades every year. This is a redraft and I would think that in a dynasty or keeper there would be more incentive to trade.

 

But I think limiting the ww picks is a nice way to encourage trades. Too many times guys get scared to make deals thinking they'll just use the ww to address their problems. By allowing only a limited number of pickups guys have to use them more judiciously and look at other ways improve their teams.

[jgcrawfish 232]

No offense, but I wouldn't accept your offer either. Big Ben is WAY more valuable than Eli, and in that division he will be in many shootouts. Eli is in a tough division and has never impressed. If you really want Ben, take out the draft pick on his end. That is a pretty good starting point.

 

I'm not expecting him to accept my offer, I can't even get a counter offer on what I feel is a reasonable offer on my part. And that's the sticking point. I'm not of the vein that lowballs everything, nor am I of the one that puts the full deal out on the table right at the start. It's a negotiation, I try to make a fair offer in the hope of moving toward a compromise that is good for both. If my offer isn't quite good enough, that's fine, not only am I open to a counter offer, I hope for it. However, I can tell you that I'm not gonna go any further in bidding against myself without him giving a little, life doesn't work like that. I don't disagree that Ben is more valuable than Eli, hence the reason I would consider trying to upgrade. However, it's just as likely that Ben just had his career year and will come down while Eli may be on the rise. The other thing to factor in is that he has another stud QB, and you can only play one. If you can get a competent backup and swap a late 2nd rounder for a less late 1st rounder, well, to me that seems like a pretty good deal for a guy you may or may not use in the first place. To me what hurts the deal is the youth factor, in that Ben has roughly the same # of seasons left as Eli and is, and most likely will continue to be, more valuable. But in my mind, Ben > 1.10 pick. And I would probably do the deal for Eli+1.10 for Ben+3rd, and I would probably give serious consideration to doing it without the extra pick completely. However, that's for him to inquire about, not for me to volunteer.

[Super Cubs 132]

Any in here have problems getting people to trade in their leagues. We're a 12 team, full-format keeper league since 1994 and I've managed only three trades since we converted and I can't seem to drum up ANY interest from my mates. All positions are mandatory with rosters 3/4/5/2/2/2, see mine below. For the most part our draft is rookie heavy since we keep everyone we want and even injured or retired players have stayed on rosters (Barry Sanders was carried for 5 years by his owner for fear he'd come back!).

 

Is there something in our format causing this?

 

What seems to make them work in your leagues? the owners? the players?

 

As an example I draft #12 this year. I offered #2 and #3 Lendale White and the #12 last week and neither has even responded. Last night I asked #1 what it would take to get his pick.......SJax and #12 came back as response. I countered with Lendale, Coles and #12. It was laughed at. I for one considered his thought process flawed. He said Sjax at 24 is less valuable than a potential home-run in the draft. Dynasty ranking from Kilroy would indicate White alone is at par with McF whom I am sure he is targeting and adding Coles and #12 should tip the scales heavy in his favor.

 

I'm just looking for some methods or added options any of you have found that seem to open the doors...

 

Any comments are welcomed..

 

IMO your trade offers suck. Why would I want to give up what you called "a potential home-run" for a lower #2 RB and a #3-4 WR?

 

Make me an offer I can not refuse. I don't have to be fair or reasonable since I have the pick and I know you want it.

 

If you want the pick offer Portis (assuming he's CP and not Perry) plus something extra. Let him know your serious.

 

My league has a strict limit on the total number of waiver pickups for the season along with deep rosters (20). I like it and think it encourages trading. We have a high number of trades every year. This is a redraft and I would think that in a dynasty or keeper there would be more incentive to trade.

 

But I think limiting the ww picks is a nice way to encourage trades. Too many times guys get scared to make deals thinking they'll just use the ww to address their problems. By allowing only a limited number of pickups guys have to use them more judiciously and look at other ways improve their teams.

We do the same and it works very well.

[ROYALWITCHEESE 0]

While I agree with some of the points you made, I have to disagree with the principle behind your statement that I highlighted. Bowe increased in value from the time you wisely traded for him, and that increase in value should not be discounted. Let's say you bought a stock at $20 and it went up to $50. If I offer you $40 for it, you should laugh at me. It's a loss of $10, not a gain of $20. If you choose to deal away that value for the future return that comes with the reputation of being a fair trade partner, well that's a viable strategy. But it's that same pretzel logic that sometime kills deals. Someone might have given up a king's ransom for Shaun Alexander prior to 2006. If he wants fair value for Alexander now, he'll need to set his sights a fair bit lower.

 

What would I suggest to increase trading? Communication always helps. Good trades center around moving your players to an owner who values them higher, and getting players in return that you value more highly than your trade partner. It sounds obvious, but without open and honest communication there's no way to know where other owners value their own players, or to let them know what you would accept for your own. If I have a player I want to move because I feel he is generally overvalued, I talk him down. Soon enough someone will inquire about him. The owners in my league who always talk about their players like they walk on water rarely receive trade offers, and it is their loss.

 

 

While, in theory, this is true, most owners in dynasty leagues are rarely forthright and are out to screw their trade partner as much as possible.

[the_risen_demon 0]

IMO your trade offers suck. Why would I want to give up what you called "a potential home-run" for a lower #2 RB and a #3-4 WR?

 

Make me an offer I can not refuse. I don't have to be fair or reasonable since I have the pick and I know you want it.

 

If you want the pick offer Portis (assuming he's CP and not Perry) plus something extra. Let him know your serious.

We do the same and it works very well.

 

I don't think he called the #1 a potential home run; it seemed like he was quoting you, or at least expressing your sentiments. While you're certainly not obligated to agree to any trade, Lendale White, Coles and the 1.12 for the 1.01 is a reasonable offer. If he gave you Portis (much less anything additional) for the 1.01, he'd need to have his head examined.

[Moonlight 0]

I don't think he called the #1 a potential home run; it seemed like he was quoting you, or at least expressing your sentiments. While you're certainly not obligated to agree to any trade, Lendale White, Coles and the 1.12 for the 1.01 is a reasonable offer. If he gave you Portis (much less anything additional) for the 1.01, he'd need to have his head examined.

 

I probably wouldn't make this trade myself. You are offering above average players and a very late #1 which will get you a WR prospect or maybe Torain if you are an owner who likes Torain.

However Coles is thought by many to be starting to slip and White and reliable are two words I haven't seen together in the same sentence.

 

Fantasy champioships are usually won by stud players... giving up the chance to get who you value as the top player in the draft should take more than you are offering IMO.

 

If an owner is needing depth your trade offer is a little more appealing but to me I think you are over valuing it.

[Comic Book Guy 0]

I probably wouldn't make this trade myself. You are offering above average players and a very late #1 which will get you a WR prospect or maybe Torain if you are an owner who likes Torain.

However Coles is thought by many to be starting to slip and White and reliable are two words I haven't seen together in the same sentence.

 

Fantasy champioships are usually won by stud players... giving up the chance to get who you value as the top player in the draft should take more than you are offering IMO.

 

If an owner is needing depth your trade offer is a little more appealing but to me I think you are over valuing it.

 

agreed. if you see Lendale having so much value then why would you trade him?

[ROCKET 0]

Any in here have problems getting people to trade in their leagues. We're a 12 team, full-format keeper league since 1994 and I've managed only three trades since we converted and I can't seem to drum up ANY interest from my mates. All positions are mandatory with rosters 3/4/5/2/2/2, see mine below. For the most part our draft is rookie heavy since we keep everyone we want and even injured or retired players have stayed on rosters (Barry Sanders was carried for 5 years by his owner for fear he'd come back!).

 

Is there something in our format causing this?

 

What seems to make them work in your leagues? the owners? the players?

 

As an example I draft #12 this year. I offered #2 and #3 Lendale White and the #12 last week and neither has even responded. Last night I asked #1 what it would take to get his pick.......SJax and #12 came back as response. I countered with Lendale, Coles and #12. It was laughed at. I for one considered his thought process flawed. He said Sjax at 24 is less valuable than a potential home-run in the draft. Dynasty ranking from Kilroy would indicate White alone is at par with McF whom I am sure he is targeting and adding Coles and #12 should tip the scales heavy in his favor.

 

I'm just looking for some methods or added options any of you have found that seem to open the doors...

 

Any comments are welcomed..

 

If you offered me Lenwhale White and the #12 pick for the #2 or #3 pick I don't think I'd bother responding either. That is ridiculous. And if you are picking at the 12 spot that must mean you are the defending champ which means you have a solid team. When I make deals in dynasty leagues I avoid at all cost making trades with the top teams in the league who I'm trying to knock off. I try to deal with the lesser teams as I don't want to strengthen the teams I'm most concerned with beating come playoff time. Your offer is weak to begin with, if you have a top team you more than likely will have to overpay to get someone to trade with you unless you have a few idiots for owners which many leagues seem to have. I have the same problem in some leagues too but that's the price you pay for putting together a good squad.

[phlegmish 4]

thanks for the commentary all!

 

btw, I never expected him to take White and Coles for #1 but I wanted to start a dialogue to assess exactly how highly he valued the pick. My problem with these league mates is exactly as some of you have indicated. The real value is far below their expectations but they refuse to discuss what "value" would work it out. trading sJax would work for me ONLY if one Mcf/stewart/mendenhall led the league in rushing and got 75-85 catches to boot (Sjax ceiling???). But nobody can say that with any certainty or which one of them it would be or that it will happen at all. McF might be Rashaan Salaam II for all we know, at least with sjax i know he can do it, it's just a matter of can he do it again.

 

This is same owner who wanted #1 from me 4 yrs ago and I said LT was the price, but I was willing to discuss it. he has never traded in this league, and never won either. my other trades have turned heavily in my favor over time due to injuries to those i traded (Heap, Henry and McGahee were all injured the year i gave them up to move in draft). It does come up at our drafts and meetings that i've "screwed" the other guys in each deal so that reticence also factors heavy in all discussions.

 

Maybe i curse the players when they leave my team....